Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[Want]

Since we're keeping it simple.

Alps suck.


Edit: yeah okay now you'll only see me, damn being page king.
Maybe I'll put it this way: I really don't like Alps.

[MeltingTeeth]

That isn't an unpopular opinion.

[swimmingbird]

More people should start with Topre keyboards

[swimmingbird]

That isn't an unpopular opinion.

I think it might be - from the people I've seen who have tried Alps they all are in love with them

I think the reason you don't see more of them is because there aren't many people who have actually tried them

[jonathanyu]

I hate DSA keycaps.

SA key caps are ugly.

Not unpopular.


JIS is the best layout.

[azhdar]

JIS is the best layout.

I agree 90% but long left shift

[jonathanyu]

JIS is the best layout.

I agree 90% but long left shift

how about this?
60% tho, I hate it

[azhdar]

JIS is the best layout.

I agree 90% but long left shift

Show Image

how about this?
60% tho, I hate it

That is filco minila layout, not JIS.
I don't like how the layout is handled on this one.

[ideus]

I hate DSA keycaps.

SA key caps are ugly.

Not unpopular.


JIS is the best layout.

Even the SP's GM testimony probes SA is all the rage now.

[localredhead]

If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101.

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.

[SamirD]

If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101.

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.

I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember. 

[nubbinator]

More

If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101.

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.

I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember. 

It's dead on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.

[swimmingbird]

More

If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101.

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.

I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember. 

It's deaf on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.

What sort of investment are we talking about?

[ideus]

More people should start with Topre keyboards

Topre are just glorified rubber dome keyboards, an important element for the glorification is their pricing.


 ) ) )

[nubbinator]

More

If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101.

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.

I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember. 

It's deaf on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.

What sort of investment are we talking about?

If I were to do it at home with less durable molds, ~$700-$1500 or so and a considerable time investment, cheaper if a nearby makerspace does actually get an injection molder.  With real molds, north of $2k.   I've been trying to contact a company I know that produced adapters in the past to find out about their molds, but I can't get in touch with them.

[swimmingbird]

More

If you're srs, I'll make an Alps-to-MX stem and that will be the only cap I ever put on my Dell AT101.

Actually in all seriousness - why doesn't this exist yet?

The alps keys look like you could insert a small piece of plastic in the top of them that would accept a cherry keycap.  They might ride a little high, but I think that could be managed depending on the design on the insert.

I think someone on DT has made something like this, or vice-versa, can't remember. 

It's deaf on DT..I made some that are up on Shapeways.  I've been trying to get them made in POM, but it's a high investment for a small niche.

What sort of investment are we talking about?

If I were to do it at home with less durable molds, ~$700-$1500 or so and a considerable time investment, cheaper if a nearby makerspace does actually get an injection molder.  With real molds, north of $2k.   I've been trying to contact a company I know that produced adapters in the past to find out about their molds, but I can't get in touch with them.

That sounds pretty doable

[hyperhopper]

HHKB has a bad layout because when you need multiple layers, removing a modifier key near your left pinky wastes valuable space.

[childofthehorn]

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

[livingspeedbump]

HHKB has a bad layout because when you need multiple layers, removing a modifier key near your left pinky wastes valuable space.

Disagree. The HHKB has remained largely unchanged in terms of layout since 1996, with sales increasing yearly, pretty much solidifying the fact that is is a good layout. It has one of the most thought through layouts of any keyboard imo, though it is also aimed at a specific audience. Any small format keyboard is going to have multiple layers though, no way around that.

[livingspeedbump]

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

3. Clears arent linear?
6. Gateron Clears are 35g, not 25

You also say SA is the best for typing, and then you say all keycaps should come with a medium rough texture? SA are smooth as a baby's butt. ?

[azhdar]

I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

[Rayoui]

I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I use my pinky on FN and my index and middle finger on the arrows. It's a lot easier when you get it down to muscle memory.

[alexjd99]

I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I actually find them really nice. I do pinky on fn and index and middle on ';

[Bromono]

I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I actually find my self trying to use HHKB arrows on my real force =(

I prefer the fn arrows over the dedicated arrow cluster. I hate having to move my right arm so much just to use the dedicated cluster.

[azhdar]

I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I use my pinky on FN and my index and middle finger on the arrows. It's a lot easier when you get it down to muscle memory.

I actually mapped my arrows like that on one of my 60% I got used to the position quick but it's just uncomfortable. Maybe has to do with size of hands or something.

[alexjd99]

I still don't ee how people can use the arrow of HHKB.
The less worst way I can see is pinky on fn and middle finger on arrows but it's such an uncomfortable position.

I actually find my self trying to use HHKB arrows on my real force =(

I prefer the fn arrows over the dedicated arrow cluster. I hate having to move my right arm so much just to use the dedicated cluster.

Yeah, after using 60% boards for a while, it feels weird using dedicated arrow keys

[SamirD]

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

I disagree with #1.  In fact, I think winkey keyboards are stupid because they interfere with alt and ctrl, which are way more important.
and #2.  I could care less, although almost any 101 key will do fine for the basics.  If the Mac keys don't work, that's why there's the mouse, right?
and 3 & 4.  BS or go home.

I either agree or don't have comments on the rest.

[Snowdog993]

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

Sounds to me like this person likes having a 60% Alps keyboard, with SA Profile that are medium-rough texture.

[HoffmanMyster]

7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.

TIL only accountants use numbers.

BRB, telling boss the news.

[SamirD]

7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.

TIL only accountants use numbers.

BRB, telling boss the news.

brb, my 3yr old neice is telling her teacher

[ika]

I like having a low-level RGB backlight and in-switch LEDs

[jerue]

This is a rather interesting set of opinions

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

1. Because in the early days people didn't think this way its also not terribly necessary either.
2. Define support, almost all boards would *work* with UNIX systems
5. Wha? That's the design? Keys are supposed to *not* move? 
6. Gateron Clears are 35g, I could see them used for gaming although I much prefer Gateron reds
7. Again, accountant? Some people just like numpads...and I find TKL to be best universally (programming, casual use, space saving, etc), though 60-65% makes the ideal travel board, not too much bigger than 40%
8. Go easy dawg, I still learn things about my keyboards every day
10, Wha? OEM and Cherry work best for me...
9. Try 75% or 65%.

[SamirD]

I like big ass enter

And I can not lie.

Sir MX A Lot?!

Baby got backspace.

We get sprung!

And then buckle!

[sek1ne]

I read through some of these and while it might not be too unpopular I don't like 60% boards very much or alp switches. I have an older keyboard with alp oranges and I'm not that sure how I feel about them anymore.

[Nai_Calus]

HHKB has a bad layout because when you need multiple layers, removing a modifier key near your left pinky wastes valuable space.

Disagree. The HHKB has remained largely unchanged in terms of layout since 1996, with sales increasing yearly, pretty much solidifying the fact that is is a good layout. It has one of the most thought through layouts of any keyboard imo, though it is also aimed at a specific audience. Any small format keyboard is going to have multiple layers though, no way around that.

The ANSI 104 layout has remained largely unchanged since 1995, with sales increasing yearly, pretty much solidifying the fact that it is a good layout. ;P (And before that, 101 hasn't changed since the Model M in what, 84?) The rest is debatable except for layers, but simply citing numbers isn't very useful lol. More people own ergodoxes now, but that doesn't make the thumb cluster not terrible or the staggering not insufficient. It just means more people are aware of it and decided to try it.

1. Winkeyless is stupid and ugly (why would you want to eliminate a key that you have easy space for?)
2. Keyboards that don't support Linux and Mac are not worth owning
3. The "thock" of Topre has nothing on the click on Alps
4. Alps is the best keyswitch, modded Gateron Blues in the second spot
5. Cherry MXClear feels awful. It physically shifts the whole key as you type and not a linear motion at all.
6. Who the heck needs  Gateron Clear 25g switches, was red just too heavy?
7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.
8. People who can't learn 60% layouts in a week or two are just not good learners.
9. 80% is the least efficient layout (why so much empty space?).
10. SA profile is the best for typing and the least error prone of all profiles
11. GMK is way overpriced, regardless of the high quality.
12. All Keycaps should come with a medium-rough texture.

1. Well this I agree on.
2. This too.
3. Yep
4. Model F or GTFO.
5. It's not a linear switch.
6. 35g, but otherwise yes, they're impossible to type on.
7. False. I use the numberpad several times a day for typing numbers and using alt codes, and my last job was at a call center where I used it at least once per call to put in order numbers, phone numbers, credit card numbers... This also is not an unpopular opinion.
8. Oh most people can memorize it easily enough, the simple fact of the matter is that many people don't want to. I game and my current main MMO uses F1-F12 frequently so a 60% is one of  the most impractical boards for me.
9. Of the three most common, I'll agree in general usage, but see gaming above.
10. Subjective
11. Agree, and the 'quality' varies. (Recipient of one of the many badly made/badly scratched TA sets here.)
12. Subjective.

7. 60% programmable keyboards just are the most efficient in terms of space and speed of typing for everyone who is not an accountant.

TIL only accountants use numbers.

BRB, telling boss the news.

[ideus]

The Catholic church, the army and the mafia have remained unchanged for centuries, does that mean they are the best organizations?


The risk for this sort of logic to be wrong is very high; but, the discussions focus on the merits of actual features of keyboards are generally of more value.

[SpAmRaY]

SA are smooth as a baby's butt. ?

There are non-smooth options when it comes to SA finishes.

[nimbius]

i literally created an account just so i can rage in this thread.  thank you geekhack.

1.  hate to say it but I agree entirely.  AwesomeWM was designed to exploit this microsoft feature like a ringling brothers circus animal. it now serves its master.

2.  its more common than you think, but less debilitating than it sounds.  WASD Code for example has a nerve wracking habit of strobing/flickering for no real reason in linux.  its a gentleman in windows.

5.  Yes.  there is a reason Cherry clear is "rare" and that reason is because the design is an abortion and the tactile sensation is nothing short of the buttons on the radio of a lancaster bomber.  Youre constantly second guessing whether that key you just pressed will ever come back up.  The design of this key makes 65Cn feel like 165Cn every. single. click.  do you bottom out? the keys make an intolerable racket and if youre like me, every time you bottom out theres a thump that haunts the rest of your sentence. Someone at cherry should have been fired for this design, their home reposessed, and their children left to starve in the streets. 

6.  reds are disturbingly light.  switching from my model M to a varmillo with cherry reds is the equivalent of trying to shift gears from rough bondage to heavy petting.  youll get there but not with out a few pretty embarassing screw-ups.

7.  Get out.  60% keyboards were designed for server room pullout KVM's to torment sysadmins at 3:30 AM while trying to scoll with that horrible track ball the size of a gumdrop.  eventually macro programmables from the honeywell era made their shrunken head debut in the mainstream with 3-5 and even neckbeard fellating infinite overlay.  the average 60% keyboard is a training tool for stress disorders chronic wrist pain used to glean torture information from enemy combatants and root passwords from the developers test machines.  Its the eqivalent of stepping out of your 75% sedan or 104 key cadillac and into a compact with no air conditioning a broken right mirror and a plastic seat arm.  Ban this sick filth.

8.  people who cant learn a 60% layout arent found on the autism spectrum and dont need a lunch box of prescription drugs just to get out the door.  There is no honor in 60%, you havent conquered anything except overcoming an arbitrary shortcoming in this foul year of our lord 2015 that a vendor placed upon you in order to sell a product that by all measure is fundamentally inferior to a 75% or greater keyboard.  60% users will never know the luxury of entering a phone number or credit card by slipping into the simmering hot tub of a 10key section, if only for a fleeting moment. 

12.  truer words have never been spoken.  Varmilo hooked me on this. 

[nimbius]

Actually while we're at it:

1.  scissor switch, chiclet keyboards should be grounds for divorce, cause for intervention, and be considered a modern example of nihilist apathy and furious rage towards all mankind.  This swich exists as a litmus test for bare-minimum personal computing skillset.

2.  Dell keyboards serve only 1 purpose:  to log onto the internet and buy a real keyboard.  They are the plastic sporks of personal computing.

3.  There comes a point when a ducky or other sufficiently fancy disco keyboard is indistinguishable from a pride parade.  every key is wonderfully crafted, but altogether they can make old people really uncomfortable.

[HoffmanMyster]

Actually while we're at it:

1.  scissor switch, chiclet keyboards should be grounds for divorce, cause for intervention, and be considered a modern example of nihilist apathy and furious rage towards all mankind.  This swich exists as a litmus test for bare-minimum personal computing skillset.

2.  Dell keyboards serve only 1 purpose:  to log onto the internet and buy a real keyboard.  They are the plastic sporks of personal computing.

3.  There comes a point when a ducky or other sufficiently fancy disco keyboard is indistinguishable from a pride parade.  every key is wonderfully crafted, but altogether they can make old people really uncomfortable.

These are all super popular, btw.  But welcome!  (Or at least welcome to the account if you've been lurking )

[SamirD]

I think everyone in this thread should tell us how they really feel, lol.

[childofthehorn]

This was unpopular keyboard opinions right? 

The thread needed a little shaking.

My husband has my v60 Matias with Olivette keycaps.

If only every keycap could have the texture of the M-122 keycaps (which are rougher than the standard model M.

FYI I am a Java/C/C++ programmer by trade so having fully programmable keyboards with function layers that have key bindings for quick uses in the IDE is really needed. Plus, not having to move my hand much for the mouse (when I have to use it) improved my overall efficiency. I actually timed how long it takes me to get to things like the dedicated arrow keys and such. The time for getting to the mouse, arrow keys and various function keys is about 40-60% more efficient in terms of time. Basically any profile with good rounding of the profile like what SA or cherry has will be good for typing since you hold your hands in a more optimal position if the keyboard is tilted especially. I like insane amounts of tilt so that its more like my fingers are pushing forward more than down.

I still dunno how anyone uses totally flat keyboards.

You can Rough up your SA profile ABS keycaps with just some Muslin soaked in ABS. If you mess up, you can clear it out using Novus2 plastic polish (A secret of pinball and arcade restoration).

[SamirD]

You can Rough up your SA profile ABS keycaps with just some Muslin soaked in ABS. If you mess up, you can clear it out using Novus2 plastic polish (A secret of pinball and arcade restoration).

Very cool.  Thank you for sharing!

[livingspeedbump]

Actually while we're at it:

1.  scissor switch, chiclet keyboards should be grounds for divorce, cause for intervention, and be considered a modern example of nihilist apathy and furious rage towards all mankind.  This swich exists as a litmus test for bare-minimum personal computing skillset.

2.  Dell keyboards serve only 1 purpose:  to log onto the internet and buy a real keyboard.  They are the plastic sporks of personal computing.

3.  There comes a point when a ducky or other sufficiently fancy disco keyboard is indistinguishable from a pride parade.  every key is wonderfully crafted, but altogether they can make old people really uncomfortable.

I'm surely no chicklet fan, but the new Mac chicklets were actually not awful. I'm still a guy that takes his keyboards out with him (out at a coffee house now with my HHKB) but using the keyboard on a new Mac surely wouldnt be the end of the world, or my marriage haha.

[livingspeedbump]

SA are smooth as a baby's butt. ?

There are non-smooth options when it comes to SA finishes.

Wasn't Commando the matte set? I remember having one that was matte and not the "standard" semi-matte and hated it, just cant remember what set it was 

Those HiPro keys, now that is a relatively refined "rough" texture, I really enjoy those. Still wanna know how yours is treating you!

[zod000]

Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets). 

[livingspeedbump]

Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets).

SA is good. Will agree DSA and DCS aren't great by any means.

[trenzafeeds]

Here is an unpopular opinion:

Every SP key cap set I have used feels like cheap junk (granted I have not used any SA sets).

Try out some OG then mate. Or GMK if none is available.

[dutC4]

 

[childofthehorn]

You can Rough up your SA profile ABS keycaps with just some Muslin soaked in Acetone . If you mess up, you can clear it out using Novus2 plastic polish (A secret of pinball and arcade restoration).

Very cool.  Thank you for sharing!

Grrr ^ Corrected.