Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[atectatifern]

The flag's currently used by the Japan self-defense forces. This oversensitivity is ridiculous. I'm glad Nuclear Data didn't draw the attention of SJWs from Greeenpeace.

[Steezus]

The flag's currently used by the Japan self-defense forces. This oversensitivity is ridiculous. I'm glad Nuclear Data didn't draw the attention of SJWs from Greeenpeace.

They do not use the exact same flag as Imperial Japan, the current flag for Japan's Self Defense Force has 8 rays with a gold border instead of Rising Sun's 16 with no border.

[atectatifern]

They do not use the exact same flag as Imperial Japan, the current flag for Japan's Self Defense Force has 8 rays with a gold border instead of Rising Sun's 16 with no border.

I realize Wikipedia might not be the best authority on vexillology, but this flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force) used by the JDF (maritime) sports 16 rays. In the case of the keyset, it's a distinction without a difference. No one was buying the keyset to try to glorify the atrocities of Imperial Japan, and the people who complained about it and got it taken down did no service to their cause.

[Steezus]

They do not use the exact same flag as Imperial Japan, the current flag for Japan's Self Defense Force has 8 rays with a gold border instead of Rising Sun's 16 with no border.

I realize Wikipedia might not be the best authority on vexillology, but this flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force) used by the JDF (maritime) sports 16 rays. In the case of the keyset, it's a distinction without a difference. No one was buying the keyset to try to glorify the atrocities of Imperial Japan, and the people who complained about it and got it taken down did no service to their cause.

I don't believe they were trying to glorify the atrocities either but the people who complain may prefer to not be reminded of it. Think of coming out with a German themed keyboard where you could have the current German Flag as a child deal or Nazi Germany's flag. I don't really care either way about the set but I can't stand when people don't look at both sides of the situation.

[atectatifern]

I don't believe they were trying to glorify the atrocities either but the people who complain may prefer to not be reminded of it. Think of coming out with a German themed keyboard where you could have the current German Flag as a child deal or Nazi Germany's flag. I don't really care either way about the set but I can't stand when people don't look at both sides of the situation.

People who didn't want it don't have to buy it. I'd be offended by an ISIS themed keyset, but I wouldn't be baying to have it banned--I just wouldn't support it. The right of free expression is more important than the non-existent right of any of us to not be offended.

[SamirD]

This is so strange.  The rising sun image is a theme used in the import tuner culture all the time--and they're driving around with that in/on the car.  This is just a keyboard typically used in the privacy of one's home/office.

I'll never understand how the world works sometimes...

[Steezus]

I don't believe they were trying to glorify the atrocities either but the people who complain may prefer to not be reminded of it. Think of coming out with a German themed keyboard where you could have the current German Flag as a child deal or Nazi Germany's flag. I don't really care either way about the set but I can't stand when people don't look at both sides of the situation.

People who didn't want it don't have to buy it. I'd be offended by an ISIS themed keyset, but I wouldn't be baying to have it banned--I just wouldn't support it. The right of free expression is more important than the non-existent right of any of us to not be offended.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that if they if they don't want don't buy it. They problem is you have to look at it from Massdrop's point of view, they're in a lose-lose situation. They either keep the child kit and piss off the people that get offended and possibly lose business or get rid of the child kit, take a hit on a few sales and get a little backlash for cutting out the kit. Massdrop drop was just trying to cover their asses, people love to have a reason to complain.

[Photekq]

It represents a dark time in their countries past

DARK TIMES



GOOD TIMES




(note the word "Lolinco" on that last image)

[atectatifern]

Massdrop drop was just trying to cover their asses, people love to have a reason to complain.

You nailed it right there. Commercial expediency plus an agitating few result in effective suppression. And it's unlikely the backlash will cost them enough to register though I do hope it makes designers think twice or more before committing to having MD be their GB platform.

[neverused]

People who didn't want it don't have to buy it. I'd be offended by an ISIS themed keyset, but I wouldn't be baying to have it banned--I just wouldn't support it. The right of free expression is more important than the non-existent right of any of us to not be offended.

Exactly, it's a free market. If you don't like it, don't be a *****; instead don't buy it.

It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

The flag's currently used by the Japan self-defense forces. This oversensitivity is ridiculous. I'm glad Nuclear Data didn't draw the attention of SJWs from Greeenpeace.

+1 This is bordering on moronic.

[Steezus]

It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

To start off with, I am in no way *****ing and would like to retain this conversation with maturity, please. I do not like the Otaku set, nor do I have any affiliation with it however I'm trying to make you look at this problem from both points of view. Looking at your previous posts, you are being very single minded and making very quick judgments. The Nazi Flag and the Imperial Japanese Army Flag both represent dark times for there country, they're citizens would prefer to not be reminded but their ancestors heinous crimes. Japan does still not use the flag today the Imperial Japanese Army Flag has a centered sun disc while the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force has a skewed sun disc to the left. As I said previously Massdrop is just trying to cover their ass, it is in their best interest to drop the child kit rather than giving people a reason to get pissed off and boycott Massdrop in their free time. No matter how much complaining you do it will not bring back the child kit, it sucks, get over it.

[neverused]

It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

To start off with, I am in no way *****ing and would like to retain this conversation with maturity, please. I do not like the Otaku set, nor do I have any affiliation with it however I'm trying to make you look at this problem from both points of view. Looking at your previous posts, you are being very single minded and making very quick judgments. The Nazi Flag and the Imperial Japanese Army Flag both represent dark times for there country, they're citizens would prefer to not be reminded but their ancestors heinous crimes. Japan does still not use the flag today the Imperial Japanese Army Flag has a centered sun disc while the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force has a skewed sun disc to the left. As I said previously Massdrop is just trying to cover their ass, it is in their best interest to drop the child kit rather than giving people a reason to get pissed off and boycott Massdrop in their free time. No matter how much complaining you do it will not bring back the child kit, it sucks, get over it.

What you stated is more or less fact. I think the whole reactionary upset due to the symbol is stupid. I can see how my reply would seem to attack you and for that I apologize. I still think that the decision was ignorant and short sighted.

[Steezus]

It's about the symbol means, it's the same as the Germans taken offense to the Swastika. It represents a dark time in their countries past, you're logic is very flawed in saying that all Japanese products should be banned because they take offense to a symbol. Realforce and Filco have nothing to do with atrocities linked to rising sun flag. I suggest you do a little reading, http://thewandereronline.com/why-one-should-never-use-the-japanese-rising-sun-flag-by-dongwoo-kim/

This is the stupidest crock of ****. Should the world get worked up when they see the British flag? The American flag? What about Soviet memorabilia? Are you going to hunt down the Yuri IC and ***** about that too? How about the jtk IC with counter strike imagery? You know people with guns kill people, is anyone going to be offended by that? No? Why is that? I'll tell you why, because it's stupid, short sighted, ignorant,  and entitled. If you don't line something, don't buy it, but in the meantime get off your high horse and admit that everything offends someone and it's their job to deal with it on their own. This is a keyboard community, not a political history forum. If someone has a symbol you don't like in a group buy, then don't buy it.

To start off with, I am in no way *****ing and would like to retain this conversation with maturity, please. I do not like the Otaku set, nor do I have any affiliation with it however I'm trying to make you look at this problem from both points of view. Looking at your previous posts, you are being very single minded and making very quick judgments. The Nazi Flag and the Imperial Japanese Army Flag both represent dark times for there country, they're citizens would prefer to not be reminded but their ancestors heinous crimes. Japan does still not use the flag today the Imperial Japanese Army Flag has a centered sun disc while the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force has a skewed sun disc to the left. As I said previously Massdrop is just trying to cover their ass, it is in their best interest to drop the child kit rather than giving people a reason to get pissed off and boycott Massdrop in their free time. No matter how much complaining you do it will not bring back the child kit, it sucks, get over it.

What you stated is more or less fact. I think the whole reactionary upset due to the symbol is stupid. I can see how my reply would seem to attack you and for that I apologize. I still think that the decision was ignorant and short sighted.

I agree as well that Massdrop's quick actions was the wrong thing but I can also understand that they were afraid of giving people a reason to complain and creative negative pr for the company. At least we know for future group buys that Massdrop may not necessarily be the best option for keysets, I've never liked it. Apology accepted

[Niomosy]

Dedicated numpads, like arrow keys, are just a waste of space when your board has programmable layers, since you can make them appear on the home row at any time right where your fingers already are.

Graffiti™ is the best text input method ever for touchscreen devices. Seriously, onscreen keyboards are so dumb and unsuitable for the task I think their designers are trolling on purpose. "Let's take a computer board, shrink it down to unmanageable size and put it on a flat surface where you can't tell where keys are by touch alone". Good grief.

Heh.  I'm the opposite.  I'm not huge on having things on multiple layers.  The more keys the merrier.  I might go as small as a TKL but anything less is for limited use only.  I gladly prefer dedicated keys to layers.  Then again, I really don't care about proximity to home row as I'm not a strict home row typist and have my hands floating a lot more. 

As for Graffiti.  It was honestly good for its time but that time has long past.  I'd rather any keyboard, virtual or physical, to having to use that old system again. 

[trenzafeeds]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

[Steezus]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

[trenzafeeds]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

[Dernubenfrieken]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

[Waateva]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

[azhdar]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

For keysets it happens very rarely to have more than a year to get a keyset. It's when something goes wrong that it takes that long.
However 6months is a normal wait time for a lot of sets .
Because the orders are often open one month, payments take a while to all get collected. Then you finalize the details with manufacturer, put the order in, he puts you on his schedule. You can lose one or two months if his schedule is busy. production time. sorting time. shipping time.
so yeah if you look into detail 6months isn't that much.

[Waateva]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

For keysets it happens very rarely to have more than a year to get a keyset. It's when something goes wrong that it takes that long.
However 6months is a normal wait time for a lot of sets.

Okay, I was guessing it was a rarity because even the seemingly patient MK community would probably be upset with 2 year waits.  The 6 month wait or longer is understandable when dealing with GBs, and that's why with regular updates it wouldn't bother me, and I am expecting the SKIDATA+ GB I recently joined to be coming quite a few months out into 2016.

[Steezus]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

It's very rare for a group buy to get to or even exceed 2 years. Yes there are group buys that take up to and a little over a year but that's part of joining group buys. Anytime you join a group buy you should always take the delivery dates with a grain salt, sadly something could go wrong and delay it further or if the GB leader has some personal issues to deal with(which seems to be the case for a few). For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.

[Waateva]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

It's very rare for a group buy to get to or even exceed 2 years. Yes there are group buys that take up to and a little over a year but that's part of joining group buys. Anytime you join a group buy you should always take the delivery dates with a grain salt, sadly something could go wrong and delay it further or if the GB leader has some personal issues to deal with(which seems to be the case for a few). For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

[Steezus]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

[HoffmanMyster]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

[Steezus]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

Yeah there is a selection of molds to choose but when a custom font is requested is when the price starts to jump.

[Dernubenfrieken]

For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.

Yeah this was what I was referring to. There's gonna be a tipping point where the rate of sets designed is more than the number of sets produced, and people are gonna have to accept DCS or other producers or else new sets will just keep being pushed out. Hopefully JTK will be able alleviate some of the demand...

[ideus]

For Signature Plastics they have a limited amount of machines that can produce SA caps, with the current flood of designs they are limited by the machines production rate. It all depends on busy they are and even if they have a huge wholesale orders to attend to as well. Key sets on average take about I'd say 5-7 months.

Yeah this was what I was referring to. There's gonna be a tipping point where the rate of sets designed is more than the number of sets produced, and people are gonna have to accept DCS or other producers or else new sets will just keep being pushed out. Hopefully JTK will be able alleviate some of the demand...

Unpopular question: What sort of customers paid many months in advance and wait long lead times to get ugly-wobbly key caps?

[Niomosy]

This is where I hope matt3o can get the spherical deep dish PBT molds done and put into use.  That gets us more options and allows for another tall spherical profile for those that want such.

[Waateva]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

[Steezus]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

With SP's new agreement with designers I believe that SP still has ownership of the molds since they are willing to create the keysets as the please without having to go through the designer every time. By having the designer sign the agreement they are basically signing away ownership of their design to SP in return for a small margin of profit. Nuclear Data was just on their website not too long ago but it sold out again, I'm assuming it will make a re-appearance at some point.

[Dernubenfrieken]

This is where I hope matt3o can get the spherical deep dish PBT molds done and put into use.  That gets us more options and allows for another tall spherical profile for those that want such.

Aren't those for buckling springs? Or am I thinking of something else.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

I believe that the creators generally own all custom legends, but I'm not sure how many of the legends on nuclear data are custom.
And skidata is GMK so thats a different manufacturer.

[HoffmanMyster]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

The molds are all the same for every set, unless legend choice is different.  But if we ignore legends, and look at blanks, they're all the same mold (each Row 1 1u key is injected into the "same" mold (realistically each mold produces multiple keys and they probably operate multiple molds at once)), only the resin that's injected into the mold changes. 

I never know how much any given person knows about injection molding, so hopefully I'm not telling you things you already know. 

[Waateva]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

With SP's new agreement with designers I believe that SP still has ownership of the molds since they are willing to create the keysets as the please without having to go through the designer every time. By having the designer sign the agreement they are basically signing away ownership of their design to SP in return for a small margin of profit. Nuclear Data was just on their website not too long ago but it sold out again, I'm assuming it will make a re-appearance at some point.

I can see the reasoning behind SP doing strictly from a business perspective, kind of sucks for creators though.  I also did see the Nuclear Data set was made available again a couple weeks ago, sadly it sold out in like 15 minutes

[Waateva]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

The molds are all the same for every set, unless legend choice is different.  But if we ignore legends, and look at blanks, they're all the same mold (each Row 1 1u key is injected into the "same" mold (realistically each mold produces multiple keys and they probably operate multiple molds at once)), only the resin that's injected into the mold changes. 

I never know how much any given person knows about injection molding, so hopefully I'm not telling you things you already know. 

I know that injection molding involves injecting materials into a preset mold but that is about all, so the clarification was much appreciated

[Bromono]

It certainly makes sense now as to why they would take awhile, I have just heard rumors of GBs running into the year or years territory and was having a hard time understanding how that could happen.  I was amazed after discussing custom caps with a friend and watching a 3D printing video of an guy making a single cap just how much time goes into just a simple design like he had made, which made the prices of them make a little more sense.

Yeah it's even more costly and time consuming with injection molding. Having to create the mold and then have the machine to the produce the caps is quite costly. Double shots are fantastic, I'm not too big on 3d printed caps.

The molds already exist.  Injection molding is worlds faster, which is why it's so much cheaper.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

The molds are all the same for every set, unless legend choice is different.  But if we ignore legends, and look at blanks, they're all the same mold (each Row 1 1u key is injected into the "same" mold (realistically each mold produces multiple keys and they probably operate multiple molds at once)), only the resin that's injected into the mold changes. 

I never know how much any given person knows about injection molding, so hopefully I'm not telling you things you already know. 

there is a video of this somewhere. Cant remember where though..

Was it from Linus Tech when he toured the Cherry factory?

[Niomosy]

This is where I hope matt3o can get the spherical deep dish PBT molds done and put into use.  That gets us more options and allows for another tall spherical profile for those that want such.

Aren't those for buckling springs? Or am I thinking of something else.

So what happens to older molds for sets that aren't being produced anymore?  Are they owned by the printers or are they sent back to the creators of the sets?  I ask because I would love to have a Nuclear set but would rather not pay the prices that are being asked for them now, and I even saw that recently there was an interest check on older keysets and Nuclear was pretty high up, but SKIDATA ended up being made.

I believe that the creators generally own all custom legends, but I'm not sure how many of the legends on nuclear data are custom.
And skidata is GMK so thats a different manufacturer.

There are two tall spherical projects going on that I'm aware of.  matt3o is working on one that seems to be working on Cherry stems while rsbseb is working on one that will focus on buckling spring caps, at least at first.  Last I've seen, rsbseb was having health issues and needed to put that on the back burner.  For matt3o, he submitted caps for full scans and that's the last we've heard thus far.

As for ownership, the import things owned are the molds and any novelties that might fall under copyright protection.  The fonts as typography aren't protected. 

[calvinhousecat]

So when the **** did this forum turn into reddit.

When half of r/MK came over for them bros.

Not even /r/mk has this much *****ing about "sjws"

There was a guy who made three different topics about this, and the discussion in the main topic was pretty miserable. Trust me they were just as bad.

Back on topic...
I'd rather have a reduced lead time for a GB than wait forever for a better profile/color. Specifically I feel like the wait times for SA are going to get totally insane and I'd rather some sets be designed for DCS/GMK/DSA/etc just so that we don't end up having to wait 2 years for a group buy to go through.

I'm newer to mech. keyboards, but I cannot for the life of me understand a 2 year wait.  I would be absolutely irate to spend $$$ on a set that takes 6-9 months, unless I was made aware of that right away and updated somewhat often on the progress, so 2+ years just makes no sense to me.  Is this a common occurrence or is this something that happens rarely, with a couple vendors?

Agreed, huge props for those who participated in 7bit's group buys.

[trenzafeeds]

Trans artisans don't really look good, even with backlighting.

[jonathanyu]

I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

[dabeshu]

I like, all keyboards

[dabeshu]

ripster kicks ass

[E3E]

The standard ANSI 104 layout is boring to me.

Hardly any of my boards have it.

[Steezus]

I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.

[jonathanyu]

I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.

The thickness of the spacebar is very important to me, but rest of the keys I can't really feel the difference except the typing sound

[Steezus]

I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.

The thickness of the spacebar is very important to me, but rest of the keys I can't really feel the difference except the typing sound

Your right that it doesn't affect the feel that much, they just feel more rigid to me. I'm really liking my OTD Red Alert set, I was using granite on my RS96 for awhile and didn't really mind the profile.

[E3E]

I don't really care about the material of keycaps, I think the surface finish is most important.

I agree with you but the thickness is also a major factor to me. I hate really thin key caps like tai hao.

The thickness of the spacebar is very important to me, but rest of the keys I can't really feel the difference except the typing sound

Your right that it doesn't affect the feel that much, they just feel more rigid to me. I'm really liking my OTD Red Alert set, I was using granite on my RS96 for awhile and didn't really mind the profile.

Yeah, key cap thickness is odd. On my Alps sets, the thickest ABS available sounds high pitched versus the Tai Hao, which sounds really good with blue alps. The PBT equivalent which is made from the same manufacturer (presumably, thanks to very similar mold marks and other evidence I've seen) deadens the click and does make the sound overall lower. Thin cheap PBT and Thin cheap ABS tend to sound and feel crappy any way you serve them.

Sound is definitely an important aspect for me. A more pleasant sound while typing is always nice.

But yeah, thicker caps do tend to feel a bit more solid.

[swimmingbird]

Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

[Waateva]

Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

Yep, I would say that 90% or more of people who use keyboards could get away without one, they just come standard on all of the ****** rubber-dome keyboards so people have a hard time without them because they are used to it being there.

[Dernubenfrieken]

Numpad is the cd rom drive of the keyboard

They remind me of using a GPS unit instead of your phone for directions. Like some people might find them better or they have some applications where they're superior, but most people just use them out of habit rather than any real advantage.