Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[hwood34]

can we update the OP with popular unpopular opinions just so everyone can stop posting the same 5 things?

But then we lose loads of content!

On an unrelated note, artisans are too expensive, the HHKB looks silly and Razer make good products.

 

dude you forgot that LEDs are dumb

[xtrafrood]

I have some switch testers in a shopper cart just waiting to be ordered. I'm not expecting much from Razer's green and orange switch .

[KRKS]

Here's why 5.5u spacebar is better than 6.25u:

1) It doesn't turn non-standard compact boards into a mess. Be it 40%, 66% or 65/75%, it "just werks".
2) It works with other spacebars that are made making increasing the numbers of layouts easier. Add 1.5u, you get 7u(Alps or MX), remove 1.5u, you get 4u(MX).
3) It splits nicely. You either get 1.25u-1.5u-1.5u-1.25u, two 2.75u's or two 2.25u's with a space for a trackpoint in the middle(forgot which custom board did the last one but it exists)
4) It's available for Alps and doesn't have the stabilizer problem with 6.25u Alps spacebars. And it exists for MX mount too(Noppoo Choc Mini, Roccat keyboards, there's probably more I missed).
5) Hardly anybody presses the spacebar on it's edges, so most people won't miss the 6.25u when using 5.5u

[eternalmetal]

Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility. 

[appleonama]

That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb

but sometimes people don't want to use **** switches...

Yo I think you have a typo


Why do you some of you take your keyboards to class? I face palm when I see people do this

[axtran]

Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility.

I always hit space almost directly on top of a stepped Cherry spacebar switch location. It's so consistent I should just roll a 1U or 2U cap.

[Vittra]

Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility. 

JIS is calling to you. It would be rude not to answer. 

[xtrafrood]

That's why they made the hhkb. That thing is light as hell and portable. not only that the japs designed a special traveling case for the hhkb

but sometimes people don't want to use **** switches...

Yo I think you have a typo


Why do you some of you take your keyboards to class? I face palm when I see people do this

I had an olympus digital voice recorder for lectures. I guess other people have different methods.

There should be more big ass enter keys.

[nephiel]

Here's why 5.5u spacebar is better than 6.25u:

1) It doesn't turn non-standard compact boards into a mess. Be it 40%, 66% or 65/75%, it "just werks".
2) It works with other spacebars that are made making increasing the numbers of layouts easier. Add 1.5u, you get 7u(Alps or MX), remove 1.5u, you get 4u(MX).
3) It splits nicely. You either get 1.25u-1.5u-1.5u-1.25u, two 2.75u's or two 2.25u's with a space for a trackpoint in the middle(forgot which custom board did the last one but it exists)
4) It's available for Alps and doesn't have the stabilizer problem with 6.25u Alps spacebars. And it exists for MX mount too(Noppoo Choc Mini).
5) Hardly anybody presses the spacebar on it's edges, so most people won't miss the 6.25u when using 5.5u

Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility.

I always hit space almost directly on top of a stepped Cherry spacebar switch location. It's so consistent I should just roll a 1U or 2U cap.

I agree. 6.25u for a single key is just a huge waste of Space.

[FoxWolf1]

big ass enter keys.

+1 for this.

Sick of the pyramid of death (/\) at the end of URLs with ANSI enter. Or random \ at the end of chat lines.

[nubbinator]

big ass enter keys.

+1 for this.

Sick of the pyramid of death (/\) at the end of URLs with ANSI enter. Or random \ at the end of chat lines.

Sometimes I think ISO enter could be better...then I remember how awful it looks.  I still want to mess with alt enters like using the numpad instead.

[swimmingbird]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

[ideus]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

[swimmingbird]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Who cares if something sells thousands of sets - if you rerun anything its going to get more sales than the first time it went around - its because the market is growing at a very fast pace

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity and clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

[hwood34]

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity

How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

[swimmingbird]

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity

How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

[hwood34]

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity

How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?

[swimmingbird]

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity

How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?

Jukebox is about to start, so is 1976. Pulse is supposedly going to keep running over and over.

Yeah I think there is sentimental value in owning something run at a certain point in the same way that older members are way more likely to have clacks or KBKs

[hwood34]

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity

How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?

Jukebox is about to start, so is 1976. Pulse is supposedly going to keep running over and over.

Yeah I think there is sentimental value in owning something run at a certain point in the same way that older members are way more likely to have clacks or KBKs

Guess I don't follow SA enough to speak on that then. Has there been any change in times with DCS or DSA? (honestly don't know)

With this, I also think the rarity factor is nice with artisans caps that there may be less than 10 of, but I really don't see it with a keyset that 100+ people already have that's going to spread around.

[swimmingbird]

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity

How? Running the same set multiple times isn't stopping anyone from making new sets

clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Do you really think a company like SP doesn't have the capacity to run multiple sets at the same time? It's literally their entire business.

The fact that the wait for an SA set is 6 months now compared to 2-3 months this time last year says that it does slow down production

I also don't like it because it literally kills the financial and non financial value of sets

How many repeat SA sets even are there? Besides Pulse, which I'm not sure has even started?

Also, I rarely see sets sell for more than they were bought for (besides OTD stuff). The value of a set basically is consistent with retail price. And what the hell is non-financial value? Sentimental?

Jukebox is about to start, so is 1976. Pulse is supposedly going to keep running over and over.

Yeah I think there is sentimental value in owning something run at a certain point in the same way that older members are way more likely to have clacks or KBKs

Guess I don't follow SA enough to speak on that then. Has there been any change in times with DCS or DSA? (honestly don't know)

With this, I also think the rarity factor is nice with artisans caps that there may be less than 10 of, but I really don't see it with a keyset that 100+ people already have that's going to spread around.

Nowhere near as active as SA - only sets apart from that CS themed DSA one that ran last year have been reruns (sanctuary, granite). Njbair ran a GB for DCS alps (but there isn't any other option really for alps)

Yeah I'm with you on the artisan caps - it's just when there are tons of interesting looking sets sitting around in IC status that MD isn't going to run because they can go with a sure thing they've run before it's a little disheartening

[hwood34]

Nowhere near as active as SA - only sets apart from that CS themed DSA one that ran last year have been reruns (sanctuary, granite). Njbair ran a GB for DCS alps (but there isn't any other option really for alps)

Yeah I'm with you on the artisan caps - it's just when there are tons of interesting looking sets sitting around in IC status that MD isn't going to run because they can go with a sure thing they've run before it's a little disheartening

Yeah, now that I think about it Cherry and SA have basically been the only things run. Honestly I think the bigger problem is the sheer number of different ICs going on. Numbers get spread too thing between them. But honestly, a re-run just might be substantially more well-received than any possible sets running at the time.

[swimmingbird]

Yeah, now that I think about it Cherry and SA have basically been the only things run. Honestly I think the bigger problem is the sheer number of different ICs going on. Numbers get spread too thing between them. But honestly, a re-run just might be substantially more well-received than any possible sets running at the time.

Yeah theres a crapload of ICs out there.

I think part of the problem is that it's easy to feel like running a set is some sort of rite of passage to being in the community

Yeah I agree that in circumstances where numbers are too thin for some buys there's nothing wrong with doing a sure thing

I just get this vibe from Massdrop that given enough "sure thing" sets they are just going to create a never ending loop of the same SA sets

[swimmingbird]

Plus this is going to sound a bit silly but I kind of prefer a community where there are relatively small numbers of many many sets rather than just large numbers of a few sets

Otherwise it's pretty boring

[KRKS]

Ive honestly never seen the purpose of having such a big spacebar.  Looking at all of my old keyboards and their wear points, I strike the spacebar in just about the same place every time. Even if I also used my left thumb (which I dont), I would still strike just left of center, which leaves the majority of the spacebar in 'never strike' category.  A shorter spacebar has better balance and stability to it. 

I feel like the only reason why people would complain about having a non-standard spacebar size would be because of the lack of keycap set compatibility.

I always hit space almost directly on top of a stepped Cherry spacebar switch location. It's so consistent I should just roll a 1U or 2U cap.

I agree. 6.25u for a single key is just a huge waste of Space.

You all seem to have missed it:

2) It works with other spacebars that are made making increasing the numbers of layouts easier. Add 1.5u, you get 7u(Alps or MX), remove 1.5u, you get 4u(MX).
3) It splits nicely. You either get 1.25u-1.5u-1.5u-1.25u, two 2.75u's or two 2.25u's with a space for a trackpoint in the middle(forgot which custom board did the last one but it exists)

When you're designing a board to support 6.25 and some other size, you're pretty much putting two PCB's on one. The end effect is a mess of holes like JD45(no offense jdcarpe). The only sensible way to turn the standard spacebar into something smaller without doing so is the way The Golbat does it(6.25→2.75+2.25+1.25). But with 5.5u, you can have your miniature spaces.

Plus this is going to sound a bit silly but I kind of prefer a community where there are relatively small numbers of many many sets rather than just large numbers of a few sets

Otherwise it's pretty boring

Ditto.

[ideus]

A shorter space bar than standards ( currently 6.25 and to less extend 7) makes sense only if you need the extra space at the bottom for more modifier keys; but, do you really need more? I have been using only win, alt, altgr, and fn at the bottom, plus control at the capslock and I have pretty much everything needed. What else do you need more space for, at the bottom?

[jaffers]

I don't like the majority of OTD keyboards. They are too curvy or have that horrible tramp stamp of numbers above the arrow cluster. Also bright colours suck

*jaff hides.. 

[Dernubenfrieken]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.

[ideus]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.

The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.

[xtrafrood]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.

The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.

I'll propose an alternate scenario:

Massdrop introduces a subsection dedicated to mechanical keyboards, with a promise that they will never run the same drop twice.

Do you think that would effect the quality of Massdrop's offerings? Would each drop be as unique as they are now?

I'm inspired by the drops that run more than once. I think multiple runs of the same keysets or caps, influences people to become better artists.

[ideus]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.

The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.

I'll propose an alternate scenario:

Massdrop introduces a subsection dedicated to mechanical keyboards, with a promise that they will never run the same drop twice.

Do you think that would effect the quality of Massdrop's offerings? Would each drop be as unique as they are now?

I'm inspired by the drops that run more than once. I think multiple runs of the same keysets or caps, influences people to become better artists.

MD is a retailer that happens to get advantage of the group buy format to get better prices and more orders, it is not about improving the perceive quality of the offers but about economy of scale, if something does not have demand, it does not matter how special it is, or how good is its design. You are mixing things that does not blend.

[xtrafrood]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Granite I see as a bit of a different beast, just because he changes a decent amount each round and there are a ton of child sets, its truly a DIY keyset from a design standpoint.

But I have to agree that rerunning tons of sets is sort of the opposite of what I think we want. As others have said, if the schedule just gets loaded with reruns bought by new people in the community, it will lead to less development of interesting sets.

The only part of new sets' development that is constraint is their manufacturing process, the actual design, community consultation and due diligence are all open to happen simultaneously at any time; therefore, let some designers run their sets as much as they want, as others are proposing new ideas. The only thing that can actually limit creativity is the community buying the same things once and again, instead of demanding more the innovative sets. Personally, I think that the Granite phenomenon happens because of the flexibility of the DSA profile, the material (many think that PBT is better) and the hype.

I'll propose an alternate scenario:

Massdrop introduces a subsection dedicated to mechanical keyboards, with a promise that they will never run the same drop twice.

Do you think that would effect the quality of Massdrop's offerings? Would each drop be as unique as they are now?

I'm inspired by the drops that run more than once. I think multiple runs of the same keysets or caps, influences people to become better artists.

MD is a retailer with happens to get advantage of the group buy format to get better prices and more orders, it is not about improving the perceive quality of the offers but about economy of scale, if something does not have demand, it does not matter how special it is, or how good is its design. You are mixing things that does not blend.

I'm know I'm new here but there is some validity to my post. I understand Massdrop is a large retailer set up to make a profit. What I was attempting to say is that these 'formats' can sometimes have positive side effects to the sub cultures involved in the process. MD also has a certain influence on demand because MD has developed an atmosphere that people enjoy. Maybe you don't agree that MD has developed an atmosphere that people enjoy, that is understandable. I think we can agree that MD is a catchy name, and the MD team developed a functional business model.

I understand how some people might find Massdrop offensive. What was once a small niche community is now growing exponentially because there are market places such as Massdrop.

I've yet to join a small group buy or a MD drop, but over the past year I have watched a small community grow, and growth is good for the future.

[The Hobbiest]

I think the rerunning of sets is actually a positive thing.  It's good for the manufacturer business wise and good for the customer demand wise.  The collector doesn't really lose out because he still owns the sets.  Only the flippers could possibly lose out and that's the smallest population out of all these and they tend to only have their self interest at mind in the matter.  Just my unpopular opinion.

[nubbinator]

Re-running sets is a bad thing and a good thing.  Bad because it encourages laziness and discourages innovating new designs, good because it stops douchebags from flipping for profit and because it helps preople get sets that can be hard to get.

I'm more okay with SP re-runs than GMK.  Dolch re-runs need to die.

[swimmingbird]

Re-running sets is a bad thing and a good thing.  Bad because it encourages laziness and discourages innovating new designs, good because it stops douchebags from flipping for profit and because it helps preople get sets that can be hard to get.

I'm more okay with SP re-runs than GMK.  Dolch re-runs need to die.

Dolch is literally horse atoms at this point

[jd29]

Decent rubber domes like the Thai Quietkey have superior typing feel to most mechanical keyboards. They're super tactile with a pleasurable force curve. A collapsing dome just feels nice, with a very forgiving bottom-out.

The trusty Quietkey isn't as fun as my SMKs, but it's certainly more comfortable.

[Altis]

Decent rubber domes like the Thai Quietkey have superior typing feel to most mechanical keyboards. They're super tactile with a pleasurable force curve. A collapsing dome just feels nice, with a very forgiving bottom-out.

The trusty Quietkey isn't as fun as my SMKs, but it's certainly more comfortable.

I'll build on that:

In general, high quality rubber domes make for better tactility than nearly all mechanical implementations. Far more pronounced, smooth, and comfortable. So many mechanical implementations are notchy or way too subtle to be considered tactile even.

Also, Type-S (silenced) Topre makes an unpleasant sound -- about as bad as the cheapest of membrane keyboards.

Come at me.

[appleonama]

I like rgb lights on my cherry boards 

[Niomosy]

rerunning sets is a complete waste of time

Yeah, sure, tell Matt that he wasted his time running the Granite four times with thousands of sets sold.

Who cares if something sells thousands of sets - if you rerun anything its going to get more sales than the first time it went around - its because the market is growing at a very fast pace

Its a waste of time because it stifles creativity and clogs up production lines with stuff that's already been done

Never really bought this argument.  Give the people what they want.  Plus, it really hasn't stifled creativity thus far.  If anything, I think some are inspired by the thoughts of creating something worthy of a rerun.

Sure, it clogs up production since we're SA-happy these days.  Though it's why we're now seeing some more GMK and DSA sets being proposed. 

[jonathanyu]

too much gmk ic

[ideus]

too much gmk ic

Unpopular: I hate SA, DSA, DCS, PBT in general, OEM profile in general = I love GMK, only.

[xtrafrood]

too much gmk ic

Unpopular: I hate SA, DSA, DCS, PBT in general, OEM profile in general = I love GMK, only.

I don't believe it! 

[lootbag]

Unpopular: I hate SA, DSA, DCS, PBT in general, OEM profile in general = I love GMK, only.

Truth.
GMK & Cherry, only.

[jonathanyu]

I can't feel the different between typing on a full metal keyboard and typing on a plastic keyboard at all.

[njbair]

I like SP DCS, at least on Alps switches. I don't think I would like big heavy thick ABS on most Alps varieties.

[AD]

The two worst:
1.) Compact keyboards such as laptops in which keys are smaller or closer together
2.) Low-profile keycaps (including laptops or touchscreen-type keys)

Next on my list is backlighting or illumination used on so many modern keyboards.

A more minor complaint is that more and more keyboards seem to be black. As with the lighting, it doesn't look as professional or high quality to me.

[zombiegristle]

I really love the Surface Pro 4's "type cover" keys and it's making me hesitate to go all-in on a travel mechanical.

I love the tenkey and for any non-travel keyboard, having one is a basic requirement for my consideration.

[G33K]

Tenkey is a necessity for me.  I learned to touch type tenkey in addition to qwerty.  I hate using laptops or keyboards without it, it's essential for using the calculator or entering a lot of big numbers.

Laptop scissors/chiclets aren't that bad.  I feel like the short travel actually speeds up my typing.

I don't really like the Surface Pro type cover from a practical standpoint.  The idea is really cool, but it's not tactile enough for me and I either rest my hands too much and accidentally press keys, or I don't press hard enough and miss them.

I like to game and work at home in the dark, so a backlight is nice.  I'm sorry, I can touch type 140+ on some tests but haven't memorized the locations of some symbols and the F keys yet.

[algernon]

I hate any and all "normal" layouts. Ever since I got my TypeMatrix a couple of years ago, whenever I have to type on a keyboard that has Enter at the wrong location (ie, not in the middle), I get very frustrated. Same goes for backspace. I have a massive dislike for numpads, but I like cursor keys.

I've been able to touch-type QWERTY for years at about 90-100 WPM, without effort, but I wanted to switch to Dvorak for a number of reasons. My first attempt lasted about two weeks, but I gave up: my right hand was bound to QWERTY. Even though my left hand was OK with Dvorak, no matter how hard I tried, the right stuck to QWERTY. (I'm right handed)

The next attempt has been going on for 3-4 months now, I can reach 40-45 WPM on Dvorak, but right hand is still playing dumb. I'm seeing improvements though, and am not giving up. Loving the hardware dvorak switch on the TypeMatrix.

In a few months, I will also be re-learning almost everything, as I am switching to a split mechanical keyboard with blank keys. Can't wait.

[ramnes]

Alps switches are over-hyped those days.

[jonathanyu]

this is the best keyboard