Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[zslane]

You and I are not too dissimilar, Niomosy.

However, I not only like having a numpad (when working at a desktop PC), it feels wrong to me when it is missing, like an amputated limb that I keep expecting to be there. And before I became a heavy iPad user, I had no need for the 60% format either. But when I started spending most of my life (away from work) in front of it, a desperate need for a suitably sized mech keyboard suddenly took ahold of me.

For the past year I've been suffering from terrible neck strain (and associated headaches), which I primarily blame on poor head posture while using my iPad, and so I've cut way back on my iPad usage. I don't use it nearly as much as I did a year or two ago, but I'm not about to toss away my Pok3rs any time soon. And in fact, I still want my 60% "end-game" board, which is a Pok3r with TMX switches.

[Niomosy]

I agree that having the 10-key is nice.  Having been working in IT for over 20 years, I'm rather used to keyboards having it.  For gaming and such, I should be just fine with the TKL.  I honestly don't even use the 10-key that heavily for work but when dealing with numbers, my right hand tends to automatically move over there.

As to the neck problems with an iPad, I can easily see it.  Just reading a book at times, I'll feel problems in my neck so I know it's not something I can readily sustain unless I treat it like a laptop with a decent setup for ergonomics. 

The 60% boards also make sense for those using tablets more as the function keys aren't really needed.  As I tend to be a power user even when casually surfing the net, the tablets tend not to work quite as well for me.  Most every night I'm making use of both a desktop and laptop for things.

[happylacquer]

I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material 

[hking0036]

I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material 

Unicomp is unique in offering new buckling spring boards, it's just that the issue is that everything that Unicomp makes has been done with higher standards before from a time where it didn't have to be built to cut costs. If you want the best of the best of buckling spring you can get a Model F, or even an older Model M with a thicker plate.

[Niomosy]

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

[happylacquer]

I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material 

Unicomp is unique in offering new buckling spring boards, it's just that the issue is that everything that Unicomp makes has been done with higher standards before from a time where it didn't have to be built to cut costs. If you want the best of the best of buckling spring you can get a Model F.

Bro I agree with you 100%.  I should have definitely mentioned, my reasoning for buying Unicomps over real IBMs and refurbishing them, is I both prefer a never-before-used board, don't have the $ to get a NOS IBM board, and probably most personally important, want to support them for both being a USA company doing everything in house and being the only company to still sell them.

Now, let's say Unicomp goes out of business and I want a buckling spring board, yeah you can bet I'll be fixing up an old dirty Model F instead of getting a used Unicomp. In that regard, there;s no contest IMO.

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

They will make everything else suck

[zslane]

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

You won't get the full beamspring experience unless you also get the solenoid working. 

[Niomosy]

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

They will make everything else suck

See, I'm a confirmed linear switch guy so they might be nice for a bit but I would easily be pining to go back to linears.  Hall Effect switches are really my goal so I'm hoping those XMIT boards work out well once they arrive.

[Potatomonkey]

TKL is the only. layout. everything else is inferior. fight me.

At least we agree that topre is overrated.

[Potatomonkey]

Full size less the arrow cluster(60% + numpad) would be the best layout.

Show Image

ZZ96 layout is better

[RELLIK]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ee0f585e705b8da1d6a4b84fcc85a160
Yall really need the fat +/Enter column?

[AMongoose]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ee0f585e705b8da1d6a4b84fcc85a160
Yall really need the fat +/Enter column?

How else are you going to use it has a calculator?

[Rayoui]

Full size less the arrow cluster(60% + numpad) would be the best layout.

Show Image

ZZ96 layout is better

I've never liked the "wall of keys" look you get with boards that have the F keys all scrunched up against the number row. If I was in the market for a smaller form factor with tenkey, I'd go for an FC980C or an 1800 layout.

That said, I'd rather have a TKL with detached numpad.

[iFreilicht]

TKL is the only. layout. everything else is inferior. fight me.

Phantom TKL is better in every way. GG EZ

[RELLIK]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ee0f585e705b8da1d6a4b84fcc85a160
Yall really need the fat +/Enter column?

How else are you going to use it has a calculator?

For just basic functions I would have thought it doable : Capslock=Enter, then stick +/-* wherever you feel across top and in place of 00. Granted I dont use my numpad all that much, its just easier for # entry.

On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

[AMongoose]

On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

[xtrafrood]

On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt

[cribbit]

Or use a Planck and a layer for numpad.

[skitty]

On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt

Yeah, I do this at work since I have a full size keyboard and using my mouse left handed is working fine for me. It also lets me put my notepad to the right of my keyboard where I can take notes without having to shift things around.

[AMongoose]

On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt

That's actually a great idea, i should try that.

[klennkellon]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!

[happylacquer]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!

I never had a rattly Model M spacebar but on both my real IBMs and Unicomps, the space bar has a higher pitch than the main keys but not as high pitched as the backspace.

Another thing: see if your left shift is lower pitch than the right shift... 

[klennkellon]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!

I never had a rattly Model M spacebar but on both my real IBMs and Unicomps, the space bar has a higher pitch than the main keys but not as high pitched as the backspace.

Another thing: see if your left shift is lower pitch than the right shift... 

it is! jeeze!

[iFreilicht]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

It's rattly and loud, sounds way different than any of the other keys. And the giant chunk PBT the spacebar is made out of puts enough pressure on the key it feels noticeably lighter than other keys.

Not criticizing the keyboard as a whole, love it!

There must be a mod to fix this. Maybe a heavier spring? The spacebar should be the heaviest key on a board, not the lightest.

[zslane]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there.

[happylacquer]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there.

Genuinely curious since you're not a BS fan so I want to ask to see if you feel the same as my MX loving, BS hating friends

did you use BS boards back in the day? (mid 80s, very early 90s)
What switches do you prefer most?

[noisyturtle]

A flipped space bar is a cry for attention

[happylacquer]

A flipped space bar is a cry for attention

Co signed

[zslane]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there.

Genuinely curious since you're not a BS fan so I want to ask to see if you feel the same as my MX loving, BS hating friends

did you use BS boards back in the day? (mid 80s, very early 90s)
What switches do you prefer most?

At the moment I prefer silenced Topre and MX silent red switches. But I'm eager to try XMIT's Hall Effect switch. I'd probably use Matias switches too if it weren't for the complete lack of spherical keycaps for them.

I began using computers back when you had to use a terminal connected over a modem to a mainframe. The terminals I used back then (early 80s) all had Microswitch Hall Effect linears or something similar, with lovely high-profile spherical keycaps. Computer keyboards have, IMO, been on the decline in terms of aesthetics and build quality ever since.

I remember very clearly when the IBM PC came out. I hated its keyboard back then and I still hate it today. It is noisy, loud, uncomfortable, and so tediously dull in appearance that I get depressed just looking at it. I had to use one for years at the office I worked in as a college intern, and it was slowly destroying my soul. I have one (circa 1993) at home right now, serving as a constant reminder of how things all went horribly wrong.

Now, thanks to the resurgence of custom mech boards, I am able to put together keyboards that remind me of a time when keyboards were beautiful engineering marvels that only lacked a coherent layout standard.

[iFreilicht]

A flipped space bar is a cry for attention

It certainly looks super stupid and I feel there's no need for it. I tried it on my board with Cherry profile for a while, I feel no difference whatsoever. People are justifying it by being more comfortable because the front edge won't cut into your thumb, but I think if your hand is that low, you might have to work on your typing posture.

[happylacquer]

Possibly not an opinion, but does anyone think the Model M's spacebar sucks?

Well, I think the entire Model M sucks. As does any clone of it.  So there.

Genuinely curious since you're not a BS fan so I want to ask to see if you feel the same as my MX loving, BS hating friends

did you use BS boards back in the day? (mid 80s, very early 90s)
What switches do you prefer most?

At the moment I prefer silenced Topre and MX silent red switches. But I'm eager to try XMIT's Hall Effect switch. I'd probably use Matias switches too if it weren't for the complete lack of spherical keycaps for them.

I began using computers back when you had to use a terminal connected over a modem to a mainframe. The terminals I used back then (early 80s) all had Microswitch Hall Effect linears or something similar, with lovely high-profile spherical keycaps. Computer keyboards have, IMO, been on the decline in terms of aesthetics and build quality ever since.

I remember very clearly when the IBM PC came out. I hated its keyboard back then and I still hate it today. It is noisy, loud, uncomfortable, and so tediously dull in appearance that I get depressed just looking at it. I had to use one for years at the office I worked in as a college intern, and it was slowly destroying my soul. I have one (circa 1993) at home right now, serving as a constant reminder of how things all went horribly wrong.

Now, thanks to the resurgence of custom mech boards, I am able to put together keyboards that remind me of a time when keyboards were beautiful engineering marvels that only lacked a coherent layout standard.

Interesting to know! I've looked at many photos of very old hall effect boards and those should be killer. I too am very excited for XMIT's design.

I think I like everything about buckling springs because I love super heavy and loud keys... it was also the first not completely awful keyboard I used (thinking about C64 or Atari ST or something, both crap keyboards)

I think if I had gotten used to hall effect before BS like you, I'd probably think BS was.... uh.... BS   

I do really like Topre too and reds are my favorite of any MX switch, so that's cool too.

[Niomosy]

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

You won't get the full beamspring experience unless you also get the solenoid working. 

Having head clips of it, I'd turn off the added sound immediately.  Though it's admittedly far less annoying than the sound of MX blues even if that's not saying much.  MX blues can die in a fire.

[cribbit]

I much prefer the solenoid replacement of wiring a servo to some cymbals which actuates on every keypress.

[zslane]

Beamsprings without the solenoid is like only hearing a stereo recording in only one ear. You're only getting a fraction of the full experience. You might as well not even bother... 

[happylacquer]

I still want to try a beam spring and Model F just to see what the hype is about on them.

You won't get the full beamspring experience unless you also get the solenoid working. 

Having head clips of it, I'd turn off the added sound immediately.  Though it's admittedly far less annoying than the sound of MX blues even if that's not saying much.  MX blues can die in a fire.

At least it seems to be more universally accepted than it used to be that Blues are trash. Was ridiculous how long Blues had the reputation of "only MX worth bothering with". ewww

[RELLIK]

On the subject, assuming a person doing heavy data entry's right hand is for their mouse, wouldnt reaching across all the alphas get annoying?
Anyone know of any other KB's with a numpad on the left side the Monarch, LZ RV and TK left hand variants?

Usually you would not user the mouse at all for "heavy data entry".
But if that's the case then a separate numpad would be the best choice.

Or switch to a left handed mouse. If you're not gaming it really doesn't take that long to adapt

It does seem just another accessory is easiest in that regard 

[happylacquer]

I actually cross my hands and use my trackballs with my left hand a lot while typing with my right hand. It's stupid I know, but it works for me?

[Niomosy]

and a layer

Phhht, GH-122.  No layers needed.

[silverpanda94]

1. RGB is so overhyped, it looks like garbage if you use more than like 3 colors and costs an arm and a leg.
2. After testing any mechanical keyboard ever, I regret having ever typed on a Razer.
3. Alps switches are ******g sick!
4. Keytronic rubber domes actually don't feel half bad.

I actually agree.  I'm using a board with Keytronic rubber domes at work, and it's one of the best rubber dome experiences I've had. 

[gallowgeek]

Well, this keyboard is not "unpopular" but the original K90 series from Corsair was, well, too much. The idea of having 18 programmable macro keys is great, but in actuality, it is more of a nuisance. First of all, it takes up a huge chunk of your desk space. Second, the macro keys are not mechanical switches. Third, the keyboard was expensive AF.

[dante]

and a layer

Phhht, GH-122.  No layers needed.

I like the way you think!

[ander]

I guess I am in the minority for thinking Unicomp is endgame material.

Unicomp is unique in offering new buckling spring boards, it's just that the issue is that everything that Unicomp makes has been done with higher standards before from a time where it didn't have to be built to cut costs. If you want the best of the best of buckling spring you can get a Model F, or even an older Model M with a thicker plate.

Along with my bolt-modded Model M 1390131 and ANSI-ified Model F-AT, my Unicomp Ultra Classic is one of my 3 favourite boards. Yes, the build's lighter than vintage M's—there's no way Unicomp could've used IBM's or Lexmark's specs and kept their boards below $100. And considering they're still made in the U.S., their pricing borders on miraculous.

Personally, I find the lighter build a pleasant contrast with IBM's tank-like one. And Unicomp's creaking-case syndrome (which I noticed only when picking up the board, not using it) can be fixed.

So hooray, Unicomp—more power to you.

And now, here's my (apparently) Unpopular Opinion:

People who feel compelled to use graphic banners in their sigs that we must see over and over and over and over...   :?P  Instead, how about just adding one to a post, say, once a week? Or is overkill the only method acceptable to you?

[zslane]

People who feel compelled to use graphic banners in their sigs that we must see over and over and over and over...   :?P  Instead, how about just adding one to a post, say, once a week? Or is overkill the only method acceptable to you?

Yeah, it's horrible. It's as bad as all the people who feel compelled to post photos of yet another (buckling spring) IBM keyboard (or clone of same) which looks exactly like the ten thousand other photos of the same fugly thing littering the mech board forums all over the Internet. It would seem that suffocating overkill is the only method acceptable to them as well. 

[iFreilicht]

It's as bad as all the people who feel compelled to post photos of yet another (buckling spring) IBM keyboard (or clone of same) which looks exactly like the ten thousand other photos of the same fugly thing littering the mech board forums all over the Internet. It would seem that suffocating overkill is the only method acceptable to them as well. 

Oh god yes. When I'm on /r/MK, I want to see pictures of new, interesting builds, I don't care if someone got another model M for just 10 bucks or found it in their basement. And you can't even filter them out automatically because the title usually is something like "Look what I found!". What I do like is when someone posts a build log of how they restored their greasy vintage board. That is a good resource for others and it can be interesting to see how people approach that and what horrific kinds of critters they find in their boards.

What's even worse, those simple posts get hundreds of upvotes sometimes, and then well-documented build logs get something like 60 and you never even notice them. 

[davkol]

Reddit in a nutshell. I got downvoted to oblivion the other day—for simply pointing out (very neutrally btw) that OP's Cherry G80 wasn't #rare #vintage #NOS, but a cheap, very common 5-year-old model with corners cut everywhere.

[Ouhei]

I'm sure this has been covered but I think artisan keycaps ruin 99% of the boards they're on.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

I think Kailh Switches are better than most give them credit for, the ones I have used have been more consistent than Outemu or Gaote and have felt closer to Cherry (Which was what they were trying to copy) than Gaterons do even though Gaterons are smoother.  Iv'e never had a Kailh fail on me and while they aren't my #1 pick I think they get a ton of flack for no reason.

[klennkellon]

I think Kailh Switches are better than most give them credit for, the ones I have used have been more consistent than Outemu or Gaote and have felt closer to Cherry (Which was what they were trying to copy) than Gaterons do even though Gaterons are smoother.  Iv'e never had a Kailh fail on me and while they aren't my #1 pick I think they get a ton of flack for no reason.

All of the Kailhs I've tried were very scratchy, that being said they weren't any more scratchy than the old generation (2010-2016) MX switches so I guess they were equal in a way.

But I have never had any problems with them technically. All the boards I have tried and had with them functioned perfectly.

[minh278]

I'm sure this has been covered but I think artisan keycaps ruin 99% of the boards they're on.

Somebody finally said it!!!

[iLLucionist]

It's as bad as all the people who feel compelled to post photos of yet another (buckling spring) IBM keyboard (or clone of same) which looks exactly like the ten thousand other photos of the same fugly thing littering the mech board forums all over the Internet. It would seem that suffocating overkill is the only method acceptable to them as well. 

Oh god yes. When I'm on /r/MK, I want to see pictures of new, interesting builds, I don't care if someone got another model M for just 10 bucks or found it in their basement. And you can't even filter them out automatically because the title usually is something like "Look what I found!". What I do like is when someone posts a build log of how they restored their greasy vintage board. That is a good resource for others and it can be interesting to see how people approach that and what horrific kinds of critters they find in their boards.

What's even worse, those simple posts get hundreds of upvotes sometimes, and then well-documented build logs get something like 60 and you never even notice them. 

It may be the same board, but the photo of it may be beautifully composed.