Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[elcubismo]

Man, I just don't get artisans.They're out of profile for the other keys. They're expensive. They ruin the look of a board. I just can't wrap my head around the appeal. Novelty legends on a regular key are cool, but I can't imagine having a little bumpy (usually convex) thing on my otherwise orderly keyboard.

I agree. I appreciate the artistry but I'm just not that into molded caps. I do like blank artisans that are basically a regular cap with special colors or whatever, if it matches the colorway of the rest of the keyset.

[Blaise170]

I think some artisans look good if they aren't overdone. I have a Warmaster for example that basically functions like a regular keycap. For example, a different color Warmaster below.

[rich1051414]

I recommend a silicone protector to save your laptop when you spill your starbucks coffee in it. jk

I am from a different time with different values regarding tech, so just ignore this old guy.

It's weird that you feel the need to make fun of my working laptops and group me into a boring stereotype when I'm already here, at a mechanical keyboard forum. Guess I have to go buy an old Thinkpad right away to reaffirm my leetness 

Guess you could say it is my unpopular opinion

[kiks64]

I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.
I hate illuminated keyboards, especially with thick keycaps or when it's flashing 
I hate full-size keyboard as well as tiny ones without numbers and arrows.
I hate blank keys as well as unsuitable ones.
And of course I hate azerty keyboards, they do not even allow to type French correctly ! 

[BobCarltheThird]

I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.
I hate illuminated keyboards, especially with thick keycaps or when it's flashing 
I hate full-size keyboard as well as tiny ones without numbers and arrows.
I hate blank keys as well as unsuitable ones.
And of course I hate azerty keyboards, they do not even allow to type French correctly ! 

Do you also hate underglow on boards like the KBD75?

[Duckyreddy]

I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.

Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol

[davkol]

I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.

Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol

Steeper negative angle.

Remind's me of the cevgar's idea to flip the keyboard btw.

[kiks64]

Do you also hate underglow on boards like the KBD75?

I don't really find it ugly, but in general I prefer not to have lights in my computer 

[Altis]

I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.

Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol

It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.

[Duckyreddy]

I hate raised or tilted keyboards as they break my wrists.

Agreed, talked to someone regarding this exact topic and apparently it's more ergonomic when sitted at a steeper angle lol

It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.

I try to keep my wrist as leveled as possible, I found that swapping to lower keycaps (Cherry & DSA) actually made it way more comfortable for my wrists (when compared to something like SA or even OEM) SA looks real sweet though but maybe just not for long term typing, not for me at least.

Thank you for the ergonomic correction haha, I think I have the keyboard too close 

[katushkin]

It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.

This is the correct answer. Regardless of your desk height, however, the TRUE way to ensure the least amount of wrist stress, is to have a split keyboard. This ensures your wrists are straight in comparison to your forearms and not twisted at an angle outwards like they are with normal rectangular boards.

[Altis]

It's best to have wrists in a natural straight position.

So depending on your desk height, you may want it flat or raised to keep your wrists neutral. If the keyboard is high relative to your elbows, you'll probably want to raise the keyboard feet to match the angle with your forearm.

By the same token, it's best to avoid having the keyboard too close.

This is the correct answer. Regardless of your desk height, however, the TRUE way to ensure the least amount of wrist stress, is to have a split keyboard. This ensures your wrists are straight in comparison to your forearms and not twisted at an angle outwards like they are with normal rectangular boards.

Indeed. However, if you don't have a split keyboard (or two identical small keyboards, which I can confirm works  ), at least moving the keyboard further away reduces the lateral angle of the wrist. Keeping your elbows fairly tight will also help assuming you aren't stressing your shoulders to do so.

Best case: Buy two HHKBs and use one in each hand. 

[Kavik]

SA Carbon looks like a toy. I bought it and tried to like it, but the colors are just too bright and shiny.

[frydaja]

i literally created an account just so i can rage in this thread.  thank you geekhack.

Same.

--

The best layout is Model F AT layout with ISO Enter. "Navpad" is useless since ever, because it's integrated into the numpad.

Cross arrows are better than T arrows.

F keys should be use more often. For example, PrtScr should be removed altogether and replaced with, say, F4.

Especially if you touch type, a 5,5u (on the Chicony I'm typing now) spacebar is not really needed. Touch typists need a 3u spacebar at best.

ISO > ANSI. Do you Americans need a big backslash key right above the Enter?

Pad/silkscreen-printed PBT keycaps should be the norm.

"Modern" pad printing doesn't wear off as fast as people think. Or at least it wears off slower than the plastic on the keycap. Most of the 5+ year old keyboards I've seen have legends almost intact.

The main problem with pad printing is that you can feel the legends on your fingers. And rimmed pad printing looks cheap. Rimless pad printing/silkscreen printing on the other side looks nice.

Curved profile is amazing and should come back, at least on membrane keyboards.
QWERTZ > QWERTY

Multimedia keys over FN are quite useless if you need both hands to make them work. CM's implementation of multimedia controls are the best.

I don't like the Model M. Sure, the build quality is great, the keycaps are great and it (probably) feels nice to type on, but it's really heavy and bulky,  is (probably) unbelievably loud and it dosen't sound that nice without floss modding it. That said, the Unicomp Spacesaver with greased springs would probably be an ideal buckling-spring keyboard for me.

Switch durability is marketing hype. Keyboards die because the circuitry inside is either crap or it was treated badly.

Touchtyping is overrated, it doesn't make you faster or make your hands hurt less. Even if you learn to touchtype, your right hand still has to move around too much. I don't have tiny hands and yet I still have to twist my wrist when pressing Enter, let along Backspace.

The ergonomic problems with full-size keyboards and mice are a thing, but not because the keyboard is too big, but because the person relies on his mouse too much.

Trackpoints are amazing and they should be on every keyboard. 

Lubed rubber domes are pleasant, even if you use lube totally unusuable for switches (lithium-based). The tactility feels more defined. They feel stiffer right after lubing, but try to type on it for some time and they start giving up a bit.

Unpopular mouse opinion: Mice are too unergonomic for everyday computing.

--

Also thread necromancy.

[vegs]

ABS > PBT any day of the week.

(unless it's OG Cherry  ))

[AJM]

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

You just blew my mind

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

You just blew my mind

Just blew my mind as well, never even thought about it until it was mentioned and makes logical sense

May I blow a bit more?

What about ESCF?
Think about it! Try it! Don't tell me this isn't much more comfortable!

Who in his right mind would get the idea to arrange 4 direction keys in a T-shape?
The only reason could be not enough space. Which wasn't true for the Model-M and for every "extended" keyboard that copied it since!

[FLFisherman]

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

You just blew my mind

WASD is a bad system for controlling cursor as it moves your fingers off the home row.

ESDF is much more rational.

Have I posted this before? I think I may have ... =/

You just blew my mind

Just blew my mind as well, never even thought about it until it was mentioned and makes logical sense

May I blow a bit more?

What about ESCF?
Think about it! Try it! Don't tell me this isn't much more comfortable!

Who in his right mind would get the idea to arrange 4 direction keys in a T-shape?
The only reason could be not enough space. Which wasn't true for the Model-M and for every "extended" keyboard that copied it since!

I feel as though trying to press back on C is very difficult. It's too much movement, which would slow people down in gaming. I'm not sure if you mean to change the directional layout outside of gaming, but I think for gaming it wouldn't work.

[AJM]

From your comments I deduce that you press forwards and backwards both with the middle finger?
I actually never had that idea.
I don't move any finger, I rest the thumb on backwards ("C" in my example).

[frydaja]

From your comments I deduce that you press forwards and backwards both with the middle finger?
I actually never had that idea.
I don't move any finger, I rest the thumb on backwards ("C" in my example).

I thought about it that way, because one bus simulator I played a lot (OMSI) was actually using similar placement, just on a keyboard (8, 4, 2, 1 and 5 to center the stering wheel).

Having a finger on each key actually doesn't sound bad, but now that I'm trying it out, it feels cramped.

[overlypedantic]

I think one opinion I have would be pretty uncommon or unpopular. I think Caps Lock is VERY usesless and should be permanently replaced with the Control key. I dunno, I know people actually use Caps Lock but I can never bring myself to ever use it.

[frydaja]

I think one opinion I have would be pretty uncommon or unpopular. I think Caps Lock is VERY usesless and should be permanently replaced with the Control key. I dunno, I know people actually use Caps Lock but I can never bring myself to ever use it.

That's right Shift for me. I never use it and I'd rather have Delete there.

Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?

[wholypantalones]

Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?

Every time I reach for the home key with my pinky and miss or overshoot the backspace. 

[xtrafrood]

Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?

Every time I reach for the home key with my pinky and miss or overshoot the backspace. 

Everyday. Just as a hobby though, nothing serious or professional like ctrl v.

[danwomansan]

Speaking of useless keys.. Does someone actually use Insert?

insert is very important with many demoscene tools like trackers

i hate keyboard underglow and like ml switches

[portbaron]

I hate HHKB layout. Like to the point I threw out a board rather than spend time selling it.

[abrahamstechnology]

I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

[invariance]

I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

I feel a great sadness at the very core of my being every time I hear this happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Findecanor]

I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

Even when it is a creaky Chicony?

[abrahamstechnology]

I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

Even when it is a creaky Chicony?

Yes.

[Kevadu]

Time to hide my old Chicony with blue Alps that I was planning on taking apart I guess...

Seriously though those switches deserve better.  It's a cheap, flimsy, creaky plastic case.  With only two key rollover and pointlessly huge bezels.  I have no qualms about harvesting the switches from that.

[frydaja]

I actually like the font on Razer keyboards. Even the old one. But my most favorite font (overall, incl. keyboards) is Segoe UI Semilight, the one on Sun keyboards is very close to that.

[abrahamstechnology]

Time to hide my old Chicony with blue Alps that I was planning on taking apart I guess...

Seriously though those switches deserve better.  It's a cheap, flimsy, creaky plastic case.  With only two key rollover and pointlessly huge bezels.  I have no qualms about harvesting the switches from that.

I'll gladly take the chassis off your hands...

[CommonCurt]

Getting tired of seeing every new GMK GB come with icon only mods.

[frydaja]

Getting tired of seeing every new GMK GB come with icon only mods.

There, I fixed it.

[CommonCurt]

Getting tired of seeing every new GMK GB come with icon only mods.

There, I fixed it.

If only it were that easy.

[nmur]

stormtrooper hhkbs are uggo

don't @ me

[frydaja]

Any high contrast case/keycaps combo is ugly.

Heil Dolch.

[fishinaspacesuit]

Artisan keycaps are one of the best things that happened to mechanical keyboards.. don't @ me

[shifted]

For me personally, MX Cherry switches don't feel as nice as a decent rubber dome.  I have tried MX Cherry red, speed red, black, brown, blue and clear keyboards.  Finally tried a Topre before abandoning mechanical keyboards altogether and found what I like...a glorified rubber dome. (I have 3 topre keyboards now; Realforce R2 Silent 45g, Realforce 87U 55g, Realforce RGB 45g)

[_rubik]

I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

I regret every vintage board I've cut up... except AEKS.

Unpopular opinion: AEKs suck...

[frydaja]

For me personally, MX Cherry switches don't feel as nice as a decent rubber dome.  I have tried MX Cherry red, speed red, black, brown, blue and clear keyboards.  Finally tried a Topre before abandoning mechanical keyboards altogether and found what I like...a glorified rubber dome. (I have 3 topre keyboards now; Realforce R2 Silent 45g, Realforce 87U 55g, Realforce RGB 45g)

Agreed. I like light switches with heavy tactility, so commercially avaliable Cherry switches (maybe except Blue, but I can't find a MX Blue board to try anywhere; I tried Razer Greens and also tried not to laugh; also given the country I live in, vintage and custom stuff sounds nice, but is extremely scarce and/or expensive) and Romer-Gs are a no. And quite honestly, for me, a "mechanical feel" keyboard or a vintage rubber dome feels much better than a MX Brown keyboard.

But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings. IMHO the beauty of vintage rubberdomes is not their "perfectness", but their value. I mean, the Compaq RT101 I'm typing on costed me a fraction of Topre's price (22 bucks), has awesome build quality (steel backplate, separate case and barrel plate), all-PBT keycaps with curved profile (all keycaps are same, but the board isn't flat), is quieter and looks better than Topre and feels really good to type on. They have some quirks (on mine I miss the Windows key, also the case creaks slightly while picking the keyboard up), but they're still great value for the money.


If the keyboard had Windows keys, I'd think the keyboard looks too modern for something made in Feb 1995.


Also:
- Dell KB-212 was a good budget keyboard
- Low-profile keyboards suck, especially if they have way too big keycaps (chiclets). If your hands hurt from using a "tall" keyboard, you're using it wrong.

[ramencup]

But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings.

Actually, that raises a question. Would a NIZ Plum decked out with BKE Redux domes and lube be close enough to a Topre board decked out similarly? I have too much sense to fall for the Topre meme just yet but I've heard great things about BKE Redux.

[_rubik]

But I'll disagree about Topre. I'm sure it feels nice, but I really can't justify paying 250+ bucks for a better built rubber dome. Or at least I'd expect the OOBE to be near perfect, ie. I wouldn't have to pay extra 60 bucks for different domes, some more for a PBT spacebar and even some more for silencing rings.

Actually, that raises a question. Would a NIZ Plum decked out with BKE Redux domes and lube be close enough to a Topre board decked out similarly? I have too much sense to fall for the Topre meme just yet but I've heard great things about BKE Redux.

Typing on some BKE Redux heavies now. 7/8 would recommend if you like a stiff, tactile board. I love mine, but maybe that's an unpopular opinion.

[The_Boom_Boy]

Things that I don't like

• HHKB layout
• Split right shift
• Tactile switches
• Box clickies
• TKLs (aesthetically pleasing but too big)

Things that I don't think that are that bad

• MX blues
• Gatistotles
• Gateron  clears

[romevi]

no

[frydaja]

TKLs (aesthetically pleasing but too big)

Too big? Not because you lose too much functionality if compared to an XT-layout keyboard?

[AJM]

The layout of the IBM Model F XT is not weird. The "Enhanced" layout is the weird one.
(Ok, if I were a few years younger, I probably would never have used another layout than the "Enhanced" one, so I can understand, when "younger" persons see the XT layout as weird.)
But I am old enough to witness the change from XT to "Enhanced" layout and I just couldn't understand it:
This was a time when the input device mouse became more and more important.
And what does IBM do? They extend the keyboard to the right - where the mouse usually sits - for the important task of inserting a second, completely redundant set of nav keys. The only difference being, that they're arranged in a less practical fashion.
On the left side of the keyboard, where you usually have no space problem, they remove the F-keys and put them at the top for the benefit of having 2 additional F-keys, which - again because of the mouse - are becoming far less important.
Apart from that there are the aesthetics: You now had a bigger keyboard, that didn't sit roughly in the middle in front of the screen. Instead you were "working" mostly in one corner of the board - with a vast half sticking out to the right side.

"But this layout has been in use for over 30 years without any real change, so it must be good, right?"
Not really. The "Enhanced" IBM keyboard was copied from everybody else - like the XT layout before -, which makes sense, if you want to build a clone. After that - with IBM declining - no other manufacturer had the power and importance to introduce big changes.

And while I'm at it: I love stepped keys. Not only are do they look elegant (with the steps all being symmetrical), they're the best and most practical way to ensure, that the keys are pressed in the right spot. Not like with pretty much all the BA-keys (that includes all other Shift keys) where you actually press the wrong spot, if you hit the key in the middle.

And in case anyone is still reading  ) : The aesthetically worst keyboards are the ones which combine BA-keys with stepped keys (like the Model F AT for example).

[abrahamstechnology]

I hate when vintage keyboards are cut up or harvested for their switches, then thrown out.

I regret every vintage board I've cut up... except AEKS.

Unpopular opinion: AEKs suck...

Unpopular opinion: I'd rather use an AEK (with my choice of clickies installed) than a 60% board.

[abrahamstechnology]

Unpopular opinion: I hate the HHKB hype. They probably feel great and all, but I hate the stupid hype. However, I do like swapped Capslock and Control because of my Wyse WY-60.

[appaboy]

I like g80s more than well built boards, even though I'm well aware that they suck in build quality and can afford better boards