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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 18 May 2017, 01:03:40
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So after 2+ years of flipping my spacebars I tried typing on a board without a flipped space and it feels terrible, I hit right between B & M and directly on the leading edge of the spacebar's top surface. I'm sure my exact space hit placement has changed a bit after flipping but at this point I don't think I could go back.
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I hate flipped spacebars. When I flip my spacebar it feels like I have to put my wrists at an upward angle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It depends on the angle of the keyboard and how you're sitting on the chair. I have my work board flipped, but one day I raised my seat really high and oddly found the space bar too angled. So I flipped it back to normal and it felt...great.
Then I lowered my seat again and re-flipped the bar.
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I tried flipping mine for a day and I just couldn't stand it. Like Encabulator, I felt I had to change my typing posture and it felt very unnatural and annoying.
From the people I know that like flipped spacebars, you either just like it or you don't.
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I know your pain Joey.
I felt very comfortable typing on a flipped spacebar + wrist rest with the Varmilo and the Filco but I can't flip the spacebar of the G80.
Problem is, I am now used to hit the spacebar with my thumb's knuckle with an oblique, downward stroke so my thumbs hurt a bit after prolonged typing with the G80. Wish I could flip the damn spacebar. I tried raising the wrist rest but it doesn't help. :(
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I always use my left thumb for the spacebar. I found out this idea of flipping the spacebar some months ago. At first I wasn't aware of what what the purpose of doing this, until I tried. Now, with my Leopold FC980M using a flipped spacebar feels so much more natural and comfortable. It may look weird on the keyboard, but it feels right. It's such a simple and brilliant idea!
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for me it depends mainly on my wrist.
When lifted of the table or with a wristrest the normal oriantation works great.
With the wrist on the table flipped is more comfortable.
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I am now used to hit the spacebar with my thumb's knuckle with an oblique, downward stroke
Sounds very similar to how I hit space
for me it depends mainly on my wrist.
When lifted of the table or with a wristrest the normal oriantation works great.
With the wrist on the table flipped is more comfortable.
No wrist rest for sure makes the difference between flipped and not flipped more obvious but even with a wrist rest I still don't like not flipped.
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I keep my wrists up so I keep the bar in normal orientation. Though even if I bent my wrists, I'd still use normal because flipped bars look so, so awful.
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Flipped spacebars are agaisnt the rules and keyboard police will arrest you for doing it.
Be warned.
I find actually typing with a flipped bar to be kinda off putting and prefer to type with it the right way.
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I keep my wrists up so I keep the bar in normal orientation. Though even if I bent my wrists, I'd still use normal because flipped bars look so, so awful.
You prefer uncomfortable typing to the aesthetic of a flipped spacebar?
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I tried flipping mine for a day and I just couldn't stand it. Like Encabulator, I felt I had to change my typing posture and it felt very unnatural and annoying.
From the people I know that like flipped spacebars, you either just like it or you don't.
Yup same here. I can't stand the feeling of my spacebar being flipped. It throws off all of my typing.
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I keep my wrists up so I keep the bar in normal orientation. Though even if I bent my wrists, I'd still use normal because flipped bars look so, so awful.
You prefer uncomfortable typing to the aesthetic of a flipped spacebar?
TBH I don't find a normal bar uncomfortable even when I try typing with my wrists bent. Though maybe people are typing with even worse posture than I assume or I just tap the bar more lightly than others or something.
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If you need to flip your spacebar then you need to review your position/ergonomics in front of your desk.
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If you need to flip your spacebar then you need to review your position/ergonomics in front of your desk.
Have any facts to back this up?
I use 3 different desks with 3 different chairs and the height difference changes from desk to desk, I always prefer a flipped space.
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If you need to flip your spacebar then you need to review your position/ergonomics in front of your desk.
Have any facts to back this up?
I use 3 different desks with 3 different chairs and the height difference changes from desk to desk, I always prefer a flipped space.
What facts? It's basic ergonomics. You should be positioned relative to your desk so that your elbows form a 90° angle, your forearms and wrists should be strait and your hands should hover above the keyboard (and a wrist-rest is for resting the palm of your hands when your are not typing). All in a relaxed position. Unless one has some kind of deformity, in this position, your thumbs should fall down on the top of the space bar — not on the edge/angle. If so, you are doing it wrong.
Not saying it is your case; there might be something else in your setup(s) that could be a potential issue, but for instance a lot of people I see typing with inverted spacebars tend to have their wrists at an angle, wresting them on the desk while typing. That's asking for trouble in the long run if you spend a lot of time in front of the computer.
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What facts? It's basic ergonomics. You should be positioned relative to your desk so that your elbows form a 90° angle, your forearms and wrists should be strait and your hands should hover above the keyboard (and a wrist-rest is for resting the palm of your hands when your are not typing). All in a relaxed position. Unless one has some kind of deformity, in this position, your thumbs should fall down on the top of the space bar — not on the edge/angle. If so, you are doing it wrong.
Then I am doing it wrong because my goodness keeping my arms at 90° angle with forearms and wrists straight for 4+ hours in front of my computer HURTS AS F*. When I'm transcribing lessons for example I'm constantly retreating (<-there is be a better word for this but i can't recall right now) my forearms to my chest and rubbing my wrists every time the speaker pauses or stammers. At a 90° angle with straight forearms and wrists... Man, seriously, try to keep that position for hours on end and report back and if you don't feel pain please tell me what's your magic. It hurts as all f***s.
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Done it for many years without pain. And that is the important point — if it hurts, then something is wrong.
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What facts? It's basic ergonomics. You should be positioned relative to your desk so that your elbows form a 90° angle, your forearms and wrists should be strait and your hands should hover above the keyboard (and a wrist-rest is for resting the palm of your hands when your are not typing). All in a relaxed position. Unless one has some kind of deformity, in this position, your thumbs should fall down on the top of the space bar — not on the edge/angle. If so, you are doing it wrong.
I still think it has more to do with how you hit space, my typing posture is decently similar to what you describe (my wrists aren't angled when I type). If you hit space straight down regular will be your choice, if you more slide your thumb off space to actuate it flipped will feel better.
For example, keysets with a flatter space like DSA, SA, or the occasional weird vintage profile don't bother me at all but I really only use Cherry profile or the OEM HHKB profile so I always flip.
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Done it for many years without pain. And that is the important point — if it hurts, then something is wrong.
I only flipped space bars like 6 months ago, I mostly use DSA/XDA sets so with those there's no flipping obviously, though when I do use GMK/SA I rather have them flipped - I have no issue/pain/etc having them on the right away, I've used keyboards for 6-12 hours a day for decades now but it does feel much more natural to have it flipped. Go figure. Might as well do it, I see no problem in doing so personally.
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I remain unable to flip the space bar on this keyboard.
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Maybe you should ditch the ancient IBM.
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Maybe you should ditch the ancient IBM.
Nope.
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Maybe you should ditch the ancient IBM.
Nope.
When I get a 4704 I'll figure out a way to flip the space. :p
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Maybe you should ditch the ancient IBM.
Nope.
When I get a 4704 I'll figure out a way to flip the space. :p
Why?
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I tried to do flip space bar and it is just so uncomfortable for me. I can not live with it.
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I tried to do flip space bar and it is just so uncomfortable for me. I can not live with it.
Same 100%. Not to mention I also think it looks really bad.
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When I get a 4704 I'll figure out a way to flip the space. :p
Why?
Wait, is the 4704 space symmetrical? I guess I never noticed how flat it looks, there may be no need to flip it.
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When I get a 4704 I'll figure out a way to flip the space. :p
Why?
Wait, is the 4704 space symmetrical? I guess I never noticed how flat it looks, there may be no need to flip it.
There is never any need to flip any space bar.
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Wait, is the 4704 space symmetrical? I guess I never noticed how flat it looks, there may be no need to flip it.
There is never any need to flip any space bar.
(http://www.tvovermind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/lebowski.jpg)
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During my time here I've heard of flipped spacebars before so I decided to try it.
I just couldn't get used to it. I don't know if many many years of typing with a regular spacebar has ruined it for me. I simply couldn't get comfortable with it and I was making mistakes.
Might have something to do with my awful posture or just the way that I type. I'd probably need someone way more knowledgeable than me looking at me type so he could correct all the mistakes I was making. :p
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During my time here I've heard of flipped spacebars before so I decided to try it.
I just couldn't get used to it. I don't know if many many years of typing with a regular spacebar has ruined it for me. I simply couldn't get comfortable with it and I was making mistakes.
Might have something to do with my awful posture or just the way that I type. I'd probably need someone way more knowledgeable than me looking at me type so he could correct all the mistakes I was making. :p
Or maybe it's because you are a normal person, and flipped space bars are totally deviant.
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I had never tried it until recently, and now I use mine flipped too. I just like the way my thumb hits the key much better.
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I had never tried it until recently, and now I use mine flipped too. I just like the way my thumb hits the key much better.
:-X
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During my time here I've heard of flipped spacebars before so I decided to try it.
I just couldn't get used to it. I don't know if many many years of typing with a regular spacebar has ruined it for me. I simply couldn't get comfortable with it and I was making mistakes.
Might have something to do with my awful posture or just the way that I type. I'd probably need someone way more knowledgeable than me looking at me type so he could correct all the mistakes I was making. :p
Or maybe it's because you are a normal person, and flipped space bars are totally deviant.
Yes... Normal. Indeed. :))
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Recently converted everyone in my office that uses a mech to flipped, muahahahaha
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Recently converted everyone in my office that uses a mech to flipped, muahahahaha
Good work :thumb:
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I like my space-bar flipped just because i feel like i need to purposefully click it not just barely press it and get more spaces then i need.
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So these deviants who flip their space bars - do you flip the rest of the bottom row too? If not, have you been tempted to?
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So these deviants who flip their space bars - do you flip the rest of the bottom row too? If not, have you been tempted to?
I don't but that's because only my thumb hits at an angle where flipping makes it more comfortable to use, if space wasn't the only key I hit with my thumb then maybe I'd try flipping other keys.
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So these deviants who flip their space bars - do you flip the rest of the bottom row too? If not, have you been tempted to?
On my Gon HHKB I have flipped the spacebar as well as the two 1.5u keys directly next to it. I haven't flipped the two 1u keys on the far ends of the bottom row though. Since I hit those keys with my pinky and not my thumbs, it just doesn't make sense to flip them.
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Interesting responses - thanks - which lead me to wonder if it is shape of thumb or dexterity of thumb movement that makes an unflipped space bar uncomfortable for a small percentage of users.
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I personally have been typing on flipped space for the past two and a half years and I cant even use a normal keyboard now, Same with swapped Backspace/Backslash.
I feel like an ape when I use a friends keyboard that doesnt have both of these.
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I feel like an ape when I use a friends keyboard that doesnt have both of these.
How I feel whenever I use qwerty now :blank:
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How I feel whenever I use qwerty now :blank:
Yeah I know that feel. Such a pain, but I'll never switch back.
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How I feel whenever I use qwerty now :blank:
Yeah I know that feel. Such a pain, but I'll never switch back.
Oh yeah, I'll never switch back
Now I just carry a board with me everywhere I go
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Just dropping in this thread to say that I only use flipped space anymore. It's so much more comfortable than unflipped.
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I too am a flipper but I haven't tried yet on the VE.A yet. At work currently using dsa so no flipping needed. Maybe I'm an impostor?
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flipped is best
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I don't like a flipped _spacebar_ but flip keys like modifiers (which may include the key mapped to "space" in the end).
(https://i.imgur.com/dwbdEJa.jpg)
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I tried flipping and it felt ridiculous. I presume it must have something to do with wrist position on the desk?
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I tried it too, because i thought that it would feel better. Man was i wrong.
I think that it could be nice with keyboards that have a case with no high border around the keys (like the one on davkols picture) in case you rest your palms while typing.
However mine has a higher border and when i use my spacebar flipped while resting my palms, my thumbs keep hitting the edge of the board and that's way more annoying.
With hovering hands and flipped spacebar the angle didn't feel great either.
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"I cannot believe my own son flips his space bar. I never raised him this way. The shame."
"IT"S NOT A PHASE DAD! GET OUT OF MY ROOM I'M MAKING AN ENLIGHTENED POINT TO A STRANGER ON THIS NARUTO FORUM! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE "
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Flipped spacebar makes sense due to hitting it with your thumbs, plus no legend. I've seen a few people flip bottom row modifiers which seems silly.
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Flipped spacebar makes sense due to hitting it with your thumbs, plus no legend. I've seen a few people flip bottom row modifiers which seems silly.
I hit a non-flipped space bar with my thumb all day without any issues.
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Flipped spacebar makes sense due to hitting it with your thumbs, plus no legend. I've seen a few people flip bottom row modifiers which seems silly.
I hit a non-flipped space bar with my thumb all day without any issues.
Your thumbs may be broken
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I can understand why people want to flip the space bar on Topre profile or Signature Plastics' DCS profile because of the sharp front edge of those space bars... but Cherry profile? Really?
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Flipped spacebar makes sense due to hitting it with your thumbs, plus no legend. I've seen a few people flip bottom row modifiers which seems silly.
I hit a non-flipped space bar with my thumb all day without any issues.
Your thumbs may be broken
My thumbs are fine, thank you.
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I love flipped space on my pok3r but it just doesn't work on my filco.
Do I have to rearrange the entire costar stabilizer to get it to work?
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flipped. It's the only way to fly.
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Go big or go home I always say, so I flipped my whole keyboard upside down to give it a try. But now my thumbs hit numbers instead of spaces..
I'm so confused...
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I love flipped space on my pok3r but it just doesn't work on my filco.
Do I have to rearrange the entire costar stabilizer to get it to work?
If you REALLY want to, you'll have to rotate the stabiliser inserts under the space bar 180 degrees.
If you REALLY want to.
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I love flipped space on my pok3r but it just doesn't work on my filco.
Do I have to rearrange the entire costar stabilizer to get it to work?
If you REALLY want to, you'll have to rotate the stabiliser inserts under the space bar 180 degrees.
If you REALLY want to.
Hmm bar still catches on the switch housing, does THAT need to be flipped around as well?
How deep does flipception go?
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no need to flip the space on DSA
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I love flipped space on my pok3r but it just doesn't work on my filco.
Do I have to rearrange the entire costar stabilizer to get it to work?
If you REALLY want to, you'll have to rotate the stabiliser inserts under the space bar 180 degrees.
If you REALLY want to.
Hmm bar still catches on the switch housing, does THAT need to be flipped around as well?
How deep does flipception go?
Just don't flip - keep things as the manufacturer intended :p
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I just think flipped spacebar looks worse and keyboards are all about aesthetic imo
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I just think flipped spacebar looks worse and keyboards are all about aesthetic imo
I can't use my keyboard if it doesn't look nice, it's in front of me all day. 75% of keyboards for me is finding the prettiest one.
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I personally don't like it. I tried it and didn't like how my thumb couldn't feel for the edge to rest on. Funny enough, I'm guessing this is why people flip it.
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My thumb feels as if it's going to slip off the spacebar when it's flipped. The edge gives it a place to rest.
When playing games, I especially rely on the edge of the spacebar to catch my thumb because I usually flick the spacebar when jumping or climbing in game rather than pressing it. I've actually found DSA to be a bit difficult to use for games because of this.
And it does look ugly to me when it's flipped. :-X
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PSA: NON FLIPPED SPACEBARS WILL BE ERADICATED SOON
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^
^^
^^^
^_^
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PSA: NON FLIPPED SPACEBARS WILL BE ERADICATED SOON
I am disturbed by your lack of non-flipped space bars.
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So after 2+ years of flipping my spacebars I tried typing on a board without a flipped space and it feels terrible, I hit right between B & M and directly on the leading edge of the spacebar's top surface. I'm sure my exact space hit placement has changed a bit after flipping but at this point I don't think I could go back.
This happened to me after just a few days of flipped spacebardom. That sharp edge is just unbearable!
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So after 2+ years of flipping my spacebars I tried typing on a board without a flipped space and it feels terrible, I hit right between B & M and directly on the leading edge of the spacebar's top surface. I'm sure my exact space hit placement has changed a bit after flipping but at this point I don't think I could go back.
This happened to me after just a few days of flipped spacebardom. That sharp edge is just unbearable!
What is all this talk about sharp edges?
Space bar has same profile as Ctrl/Win/Alt/Menu - don't you find they have "sharp edges" too?
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So after 2+ years of flipping my spacebars I tried typing on a board without a flipped space and it feels terrible, I hit right between B & M and directly on the leading edge of the spacebar's top surface. I'm sure my exact space hit placement has changed a bit after flipping but at this point I don't think I could go back.
This happened to me after just a few days of flipped spacebardom. That sharp edge is just unbearable!
What is all this talk about sharp edges?
Space bar has same profile as Ctrl/Win/Alt/Menu - don't you find they have "sharp edges" too?
You press them differently. It's not literally every single word.
This is my only problem with SA too. You can't flip that ****. It literally hurts to type on. :(
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What is all this talk about sharp edges?
Space bar has same profile as Ctrl/Win/Alt/Menu - don't you find they have "sharp edges" too?
I don't hit those keys with my thumb :p
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What is all this talk about sharp edges?
Space bar has same profile as Ctrl/Win/Alt/Menu - don't you find they have "sharp edges" too?
I don't hit those keys with my thumb :p
I do! With either thumb, depending on which side of the keyboard.
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I hit left control with my thumb but at a completely different angle (my control is immediately left of my spacebar)
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I hit left control with my thumb but at a completely different angle (my control is immediately left of my spacebar)
Sounds like a non-standard layout.
I probably hit Ctrl and Alt more edge on with a thumb while the rest of my hand (either hand, depending on the side of the keyboard) is stretching across the keyboard, in contradistinction to space which I tend to hit more on the top flat surface about 3/4 to the right.
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I was trained to touch-type using a very old mechanical typewriter. You have to slam the keys really fast and hard so that the letter shaped lever press against the ribbon with enough force. So it really doesn't make any sense for me to flip the spacebar, so that your thumbs can rest comfortably on it. When I actually type, NONE of my fingers are resting on the keycaps, they all hover above the keycaps.
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I can't do flipped mainly because it just looks awful ._.
Relatively indifferent to the feel. I can somewhat understand why people like a flipped space bar (more of your finger hits more of the top surface area), but I am inclined to believe that incorrect typing posture would lead to the use of a flipped space bar. Ultimately, to each their own though. I won't go so far as to say there is a 'right' or 'wrong', either.
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It's not really about your typing posture IMO, more about what angle you like to keep your thumb at. Higher up and you'd have no problems, but lower down where I like it and you start hitting the corner even if your hands are properly elevated. These effects would be exacerbated by a poor typing posture however.
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Feels great to me, It's all personal preference. :thumb: