TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro

[theferenc]

(P.S. yay handwriting recognition while holding tablet at weird angle in bed =P ....  keyboard is definitely better usually, but this scores some nice convenience points)

I have a Motion tablet that I love, for that exact reason. It's just so damn handy when I'm in awkward locations/positions.

As for the TE, I still don't understand the point of it, nor do I expect it is in the slightest real.

And I'm definitely one of those coders who think the Kinesis is exceptionally awkward to get work done with. Free form typing, sure, but coding is...less than ideal.

[taswyn]

It's a little on the slow side, especially compared to typing, but it's fairly amazing just *how* competent this handwriting recognition is, especially with zero configuration. I almost got a motion, but was concerned about the LS800 heat issues, and wasn't sure the LE1600 was worth the premium for the somewhat low performance compared to other options in the same size range. At least, that was when shopping used for something to be able to carry to classes, meetings, etc, and be able to take notes, pull up reference material, and even do full typing with some setup. So I ended up with this Dell XT. It has some definite issues, Win 7 solved some and broke some others, but overall I'm very happy and using it more than I even expected really, even just around the house for now.

 Of course, when lying down in bed I usually typo so much with a normal keyboard that this is still better mostly. =P


 Back on subject, if you really feel strongly about the TE, you *could* in theory use something like this thread to do some very interesting keyword links towards things negative about TE, or similar tactics.

[noctua]

Architect: after practicing some month with an similar keyboard like the Truly Ergonomic,
you can find a picture of that in my public album section, i would tend more to the
Kinesis Advantage.. personally i would today choose the Maltron keyboard..
after my little ergonomic research phase, for the moment...

[Forsaken]

Architect: after practicing some month with an similar keyboard like the Truly Ergonomic,
you can find a picture of that in my public album section, i would tend more to the
Kinesis Advantage.. personally i would today choose the Maltron keyboard..
after my little ergonomic research phase, for the moment...

The thing not to like about the Matron, besides looking like part of a 1950's battleship, is that the switches are black Cherries. Last I checked, they had no brown or blue option.

[noctua]

You may not forget we were all older.. one may have an idea to modding this
case nicer.. As an "spare part" you can order the case only, so you have the
free choice of your favorite mx switch..

Without testing, i believe the typing on an "curved" board is more comfortable
for the hands resp. the fingers, an point that would be more important for me
as the look of the keyboard self..

Additional with only the case, we can built in an CST or Kensington trackball
instead of the number-block which are located in the middle.. then it looks
like this..

[Forsaken]

You can get the maltron case, controller, and keycaps without the switches, and then wire it up with your own choice of switch? I might look into that if my kinesis advantage fails me. Or maybe even if some money starts burning a hole in my wallet. A maltron with blue MX and a trackball would be pretty nice...

[hoggy]

I think Maltron would be happy to make you a cherry brown or blue version if you asked.  They are hand assembled and hand soldered and they mention the word custom quite a bit on their website...

Cherry reds - there's an idea...

[Keymonger]

LOL. I just got an email saying it's been delayed to March 2011. Yes, even the early pre-orders.

I predict this thing will be shipping by 2012, at which point it won't matter anymore because the Mayan calendar ends by then and you know what that means.

[iMav]

Here it is:

We at Truly Ergonomic hope the New Year brings good health to you and your loved ones. Please remember there are no dreams too large, no innovation unattainable, and no frontiers beyond your reach.
 
 This email is to thank you for your patience and understanding during our pre-production phase. As you already know, we will provide you with a high quality, Truly Ergonomic Keyboard, exactly as you asked for, and as we have promised. The features and benefits of the product, as you are aware, will be:
 

• A unique Split-Symmetric Columnar Key Arrangement based on the neutral position of the human anatomy and physiology.
• A design which promotes a healthy posture, reducing stretching and twisting that can cause pain.
• It will significantly help to diminish the risk of work-related conditions like CTS, RSI, and tendonitis.
• It will remain familiar, and work intuitively, solving ergonomic issues without becoming bulky.
• Manufactured using high-quality Cherry MX mechanical keyswitches.
• It comes with a removable palmrest with integrated cushion.
• It has full N-key rollover; where multiple keys can be pressed simultaneously and register properly.
• Fully reprogrammable.

However, we are experiencing manufacturing delays, amongst an array of suppliers, which are unfortunately out of our control. We wish to avoid any circumstances under which the quality of the shipped Truly Ergonomic Keyboard might be viewed as unsatisfactory. As such, it is taking significantly longer than anticipated to manufacture your Truly Ergonomic Keyboard to the quality we have promised. We have been further slowed down by the recent holiday season, and are therefore apologetically forced to inform you that we must delay the delivery of the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard until late March 2011.
 
 As a valued customer, we would like to offer you our sincere apologies for this inconvenience and are offering you our gratitude with an exclusive gift certificate in the amount of fifty US dollars, to be delivered along with your Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. This gift certificate will be redeemable for any product that we offer up to twelve months after you receive your Truly Ergonomic Keyboard.
 
 We appreciate your patience, understanding, and support and want to thank you once again for pre-ordering your Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. We believe you have made an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can look forward to increased typing efficiency.
 
 We reiterate that the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard provides many advantages that no other product on the market can match and we would like to offer our deepest apologies for this delay.
 
 We will contact you again when relevant information is available or when we are about to deliver your Truly Ergonomic Keyboard.
 
 Please send us an email should you have any questions or require additional information.
 
 Regards,
The Truly Ergonomic team

[sixty]

I can resist... I can resist... NEVERMIND: TOLD YOU SO!

[iMav]

I can resist... I can resist... NEVERMIND: TOLD YOU SO!

I don't think anyone still active in this thread is at all surprised.  I'll be impressed if I EVER see one.  

[Lanx]

ditto for me, i think i was correct on both fronts of
1. suspected marketing troll
2. TE delay again
Now i can relax, i'm getting hit with stuff IRL, so i'm delaying my own V2 mod, but i still want to reach my deadline of having my V2 completed b4 a TE ships!

[sixty]

I hope those of you that pre-ordered are actually cancelling the charges on your credit cards now.

[CeeSA]

@ iMav comes this as email?

ok, i go to the corner...
i got this as email. the hope dies last

[keyboardlover]

Hey wait guys, why cancel yet? They're going to give you a $50 gift card! That you can put towards...another...keyboard!

...Woot?

[j_r]

Ahh, but you are a valued customer!  Why would you give that up!  They will probably begin redeeming the preorders in stock options for when they go public; you cannot let that opportunity go...

[Forsaken]

I think Maltron would be happy to make you a cherry brown or blue version if you asked.  They are hand assembled and hand soldered and they mention the word custom quite a bit on their website...

Cherry reds - there's an idea...

Maltron with cherry blues.... You have planted the seed for me to spend more money. thanks buddy =p

[iMav]

I've been waiting almost a year for a harmonica.  Several years for a center stand for my motorcycle.  The drama from the communities and entertainment from reading the correspondence from the manufacturer has been worth the price of admission (regardless if the product ever materializes).

I'll hang in there with TE and see if they can actually turn this vaporware into something tangible.

[itlnstln]

Just like me being a Sprint Premier customer.  

Congrats, ItlnStln, for paying us monthly for, like, 10 years, here's a title.  Oh, and we are also going to give you the opportunity to spend even more money with us when we allow you to upgrade yearly instead of 18 months, thus locking you into another 2 yr., personally customized, just-for-you contract.  Thanks again for being our [strike]*****[/strike] valued customer.

[hoggy]

Maltron with cherry blues.... You have planted the seed for me to spend more money. thanks buddy =p

No worries, that's what we're here for...

[iMav]

I ordered a B-Radical back in April 2010.  It will probably be spring 2011 before I receive it...but from what I hear, it will be worth it!  

I don't have the same expectations for the Truly Ergonomic keyboard.

[itlnstln]

I'm not a Harmonica aficionado, but that B-Radical looks sweet.

[taswyn]

I have no interest personally in harmonicas, but *this* is definitely how you deal with building trust and interest in an unreleased product by a brand new company founded solely around said product (and it looks like an amazingly well done and designed product for something made from scratch by someone with no previous manufacturing experience). It's the type of story--presented the *right* way--that really makes you happy to send someone some money on something that might not manage to make it all the way to a finished product (although in that case at least you can know there even *is* a finished product, thanks to this type of openness) in your hands. Really neat, I'm glad you mentioned it and that I googled it ^.^

*I* do actually hope these TE boards do actually materialize for everyone who has sent them money. But they've really done an awful job with inspiring any confidence in the interim, especially to someone with nothing invested/spent. Good luck =X

[keyboardlover]

B-radical is my pseudo rapper name. I'm not kidding.

Ok, maybe I am.

[Eric5676]

I was looking around a bit and I daresay if I can stick with Ergo I probably will and a blue switch TrulyErgonomic looks like it really would be a heck of a nice upgrade over my ailing MS Natural 4000. At least on paper.

I'm concerned with some of what I've read in this thread so I don't think I'm going to place a preorder, at least not yet.

Otherwise non ergo choices take me to Leopolds, possibly a Das, a Deck, or a few other strays.

If this thing never sees the light of day, I'm going to be skimming for viable alternatives before I give up on going on ergo.

[Lanx]

don't give up, mod!

[keyboardlover]

Hey let's not forget the miniguru and otd.kr kit boards! I say whichever doesn't ship by the end of 2011 wins the GeekHack VaporWare of the year award!

[nesiax]

Hi, some of us are exceptical about the truly ergonomic, mostly because they haven't show any pictures or real life.

So could you be glad and post some pictures of the TE keyboard as soon as you receive it.

thanks.

[msiegel]

some of us are exceptical

exceptical = exceptionally skeptical ?

[nesiax]

exceptical = exceptionally skeptical ?

hahahahah

i am not a native english speaker, but that could be a nice word !

hahahah

[nesiax]

Here it is:

I dediced to confirm with Vancouver Police Department if they are real or not, considering they don't put contact information on their website and since the address and telephone number they put into their domain registration are fake:

Registrant Name: Truly Ergonomic
Registrant Company: Truly Ergonomic Ltd.
Registrant Email Address: TrulyErgonomic@shaw.ca
Registrant Address: 9100 West 3rd Avenue
Registrant City: Vancouver
Registrant State/Region/Province: BC
Registrant Postal Code: V6J 1L3
Registrant Country: CA
Registrant Tel No: +1.6045556677
Registrant Fax No: +1.6045556677


"
Thank you for your email to the Vancouver Police Department.  We do not normally check to see if internet based businesses are 'real' or not, as it is always up to the consumer to do their due diligence prior to doing business with any company.  The internet and global aspect of business makes it much more difficult to confirm a company's validity - especially when you are from another country, so I can appreciate your effort to find out what you can.

What I can tell you is that the phone number is not in service, and there is no such address in Vancouver of 9100 W 3rd Avenue, so right away that would make me suspicious. (and I have never heard of Vancouver called 'Silicon Valley North before) I checked the business name with the Better Business Bureau and didn't find any complaints listed against them, and also did a Google search of 'Truly ergonomic complaints' to see if there are any, but again didn't come up with any results.  However, another thing I find suspicious is that under 'testimonials' there are no true testimonials.  From what it appears they are trying to get 'pre-orders' with a shipment date of March 2011 - so they obviously do not carry inventory of their own, but would be receiving a bulk shipment from elsewhere after getting enough orders?  This is just my guess, but it could be completely phony as well and the products would never arrive.

However, the best advice is to always trust your gut instincts and if you feel that there is something not right with the company, don't do business with them!  I will forward this info on to our Tech Crimes Unit for their information as well.
"

[nesiax]

"

This is the first message i got from them:

"
Thank you for considering the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. We believe our product would be an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can serve to increase your typing efficiency.

 

We apologize for the delayed response due to the high volume of emails we are currently receiving.

 

In regard to your inquiries, please find the following information which we hope you find useful:

 

When are pre-orders expected to be delivered?

 

Pre-orders delivery date is estimated for late March 2011. Pre-orders allow us to cost-effectively manufacture a precise quantity of each keyboard model, reducing overall production and inventory costs, and guaranteeing the manufacturing of required models.

 

This information is provided from our FAQ page http://www.trulyergonomic.com/faq.html#Delivery

 

Images of the Keyboard

 

For several months now, we have published images of one of the fully working prototypes of a previous development model on the "About Us" page on our website (this used to be the "Our Story" page). There you can appreciate and review some of the work we have done: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/aboutus.html

 

Cushioned and Removable Palmrest:

 

All Truly Ergonomic Keyboards integrate a high-quality removable and cushioned palmrest firmly attached with screws for a strong build. It provides required support when needed or allows you to have an even smaller footprint.

 

You can learn more at our webpage http://www.trulyergonomic.com/benefits.html#Palmrest

 

 

Please visit our website to learn more: http://www.trulyergonomic.com

You can place your pre-order securely here: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/preorder.html

 

Please send us an email should you have any additional questions or require additional information.

 

Regards,

Michelle

Customer Service

Truly Ergonomic Ltd.

 

The contents of this email are to be read only by its intended recipient; they are not meant to be forwarded or posted elsewhere. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.
"

Well, I don' have anything against TE, in fact i like very much this keyboard design and i like to buy one, but they still don't deserve my confidence.

The email contains the same information i can see on their website and i didn't receive answer to my questions.

This are the email headers i got:

Delivered-To: XXXXXX@gmail.com
Received: by 10.150.91.18 with SMTP id o18cs175818ybb;
        Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.27.4 with SMTP id a4mr280357aga.135.1295408363218;
        Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path:
Received: from idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c36si13988930anc.119.2011.01.18.19.39.22;
        Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 24.71.223.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of support2010@trulyergonomic.com) client-ip=24.71.223.10;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 24.71.223.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of support2010@trulyergonomic.com) smtp.mail=support2010@trulyergonomic.com
Message-Id: <47e7e6$9nm0kj@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>
Received: from pd3ml1so-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.141.140])
  by pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 18 Jan 2011 20:39:14 -0700
X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true
X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=PoCsjI4yX/9PNLpOJB7VMdKHKyM4vJcX/7ufEpQ0Uvw= c=1 sm=1
 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=THSnpY0jbTfwfLuwIHatyw==:17 a=EhsKgaTxAAAA:8
 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=14izFf6SAAAA:8 a=_MSJQJzF8jwWu4pxzU4A:9
 a=fAkw5JMJTCNbdKD0vPgA:7 a=okZr1FF93X22SsCM4i0-LEZ1vmIA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10
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 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=OGytC7J6EfvzftADodQA:9 a=Y_vOZKRT_1Cn6gwepZEA:7
 a=LXgx3s72XSgSwekty7shnRG67UIA:4 a=ZFHPfPhCXySSG1Md:21
 a=YXZlIEUqlUrEzoT4:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117
Received: from unknown (HELO CR82977A) ([96.49.215.134])
  by pd3ml1so-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 18 Jan 2011 20:39:06 -0700
From:
To: "'XXXXXX'"
Subject: RE: Interested in the Keyboard
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:47:01 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
   boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01CBB72F.546A9C50"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
In-Reply-To: <4D3480E7.4010005@gmail.com>
Thread-Index: Acu2br/B8vznRipeQbauHFEPro0u7QBB7OeA
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664

So it seems that the email was received by an smtp server located in Vancouver at least ( 96.49.215.134 )

I don't know, if they a "Truly" Company, why they don't put their contact information ? some pictures of their offices ? some history about them ? some youtube video ? i don't think that's a requeriment for a virtual store, but if you opt for contacting people just using virtual ways, they you must at least answer emails and make full use of virtual tools.

Let's hope they will not be the "Fake company" and the product ends being the "Fake Ergonomic".

[nesiax]

"

This is the first message i got from them:

"
Thank you for considering the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. We believe our product would be an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can serve to increase your typing efficiency.

 

We apologize for the delayed response due to the high volume of emails we are currently receiving.

 

In regard to your inquiries, please find the following information which we hope you find useful:

 

When are pre-orders expected to be delivered?

 

Pre-orders delivery date is estimated for late March 2011. Pre-orders allow us to cost-effectively manufacture a precise quantity of each keyboard model, reducing overall production and inventory costs, and guaranteeing the manufacturing of required models.

 

This information is provided from our FAQ page http://www.trulyergonomic.com/faq.html#Delivery

 

Images of the Keyboard

 

For several months now, we have published images of one of the fully working prototypes of a previous development model on the "About Us" page on our website (this used to be the "Our Story" page). There you can appreciate and review some of the work we have done: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/aboutus.html

 

Cushioned and Removable Palmrest:

 

All Truly Ergonomic Keyboards integrate a high-quality removable and cushioned palmrest firmly attached with screws for a strong build. It provides required support when needed or allows you to have an even smaller footprint.

 

You can learn more at our webpage http://www.trulyergonomic.com/benefits.html#Palmrest

 

 

Please visit our website to learn more: http://www.trulyergonomic.com

You can place your pre-order securely here: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/preorder.html

 

Please send us an email should you have any additional questions or require additional information.

 

Regards,

Michelle

Customer Service

Truly Ergonomic Ltd.

 

The contents of this email are to be read only by its intended recipient; they are not meant to be forwarded or posted elsewhere. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.
"

Well, I don' have anything against TE, in fact i like very much this keyboard design and i like to buy one, but they still don't deserve my confidence.

The email contains the same information i can see on their website and i didn't receive answer to my questions.

This are the email headers i got:

Delivered-To: XXXXXX@gmail.com
Received: by 10.150.91.18 with SMTP id o18cs175818ybb;
        Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.90.27.4 with SMTP id a4mr280357aga.135.1295408363218;
        Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path:
Received: from idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c36si13988930anc.119.2011.01.18.19.39.22;
        Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 24.71.223.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of support2010@trulyergonomic.com) client-ip=24.71.223.10;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 24.71.223.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of support2010@trulyergonomic.com) smtp.mail=support2010@trulyergonomic.com
Message-Id: <47e7e6$9nm0kj@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>
Received: from pd3ml1so-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.141.140])
  by pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 18 Jan 2011 20:39:14 -0700
X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true
X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=PoCsjI4yX/9PNLpOJB7VMdKHKyM4vJcX/7ufEpQ0Uvw= c=1 sm=1
 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=THSnpY0jbTfwfLuwIHatyw==:17 a=EhsKgaTxAAAA:8
 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=14izFf6SAAAA:8 a=_MSJQJzF8jwWu4pxzU4A:9
 a=fAkw5JMJTCNbdKD0vPgA:7 a=okZr1FF93X22SsCM4i0-LEZ1vmIA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10
 a=GJxrJdgRbRQA:10 a=mMHc2fqpj5wA:10 a=l-1EMTkDQfkA:10 a=CWmRIZOW1OcA:10
 a=qzJ8uaSh16oA:10 a=4-G2O6QI_d4A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=-j0vHCqntzsA:10
 a=IJeVvaZ_BSAA:10 a=5dWG-VxHnuBGyk-o:21 a=4Yyy4Sri5P9oQ6v7:21
 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=OGytC7J6EfvzftADodQA:9 a=Y_vOZKRT_1Cn6gwepZEA:7
 a=LXgx3s72XSgSwekty7shnRG67UIA:4 a=ZFHPfPhCXySSG1Md:21
 a=YXZlIEUqlUrEzoT4:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117
Received: from unknown (HELO CR82977A) ([96.49.215.134])
  by pd3ml1so-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 18 Jan 2011 20:39:06 -0700
From:
To: "'XXXXXX'"
Subject: RE: Interested in the Keyboard
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:47:01 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
   boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01CBB72F.546A9C50"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
In-Reply-To: <4D3480E7.4010005@gmail.com>
Thread-Index: Acu2br/B8vznRipeQbauHFEPro0u7QBB7OeA
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664

So it seems that the email was received by an smtp server located in Vancouver at least ( 96.49.215.134 )

I don't know, if they a "Truly" Company, why they don't put their contact information ? some pictures of their offices ? some history about them ? some youtube video ? i don't think that's a requeriment for a virtual store, but if you opt for contacting people just using virtual ways, they you must at least answer emails and make full use of virtual tools.

Let's hope they will not be the "Fake company" and the product ends being the "Fake Ergonomic".

[nesiax]

"

This is the first message i got from them:

"
Thank you for considering the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. We believe our product would be an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can serve to increase your typing efficiency.

 

We apologize for the delayed response due to the high volume of emails we are currently receiving.

 

In regard to your inquiries, please find the following information which we hope you find useful:

 

When are pre-orders expected to be delivered?

 

Pre-orders delivery date is estimated for late March 2011. Pre-orders allow us to cost-effectively manufacture a precise quantity of each keyboard model, reducing overall production and inventory costs, and guaranteeing the manufacturing of required models.

 

This information is provided from our FAQ page http://www.trulyergonomic.com/faq.html#Delivery

 

Images of the Keyboard

 

For several months now, we have published images of one of the fully working prototypes of a previous development model on the "About Us" page on our website (this used to be the "Our Story" page). There you can appreciate and review some of the work we have done: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/aboutus.html

 

Cushioned and Removable Palmrest:

 

All Truly Ergonomic Keyboards integrate a high-quality removable and cushioned palmrest firmly attached with screws for a strong build. It provides required support when needed or allows you to have an even smaller footprint.

 

You can learn more at our webpage http://www.trulyergonomic.com/benefits.html#Palmrest

 

 

Please visit our website to learn more: http://www.trulyergonomic.com

You can place your pre-order securely here: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/preorder.html

 

Please send us an email should you have any additional questions or require additional information.

 

Regards,

Michelle

Customer Service

Truly Ergonomic Ltd.

 

The contents of this email are to be read only by its intended recipient; they are not meant to be forwarded or posted elsewhere. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.
"

Well, I don' have anything against TE, in fact i like very much this keyboard design and i like to buy one, but they still don't deserve my confidence.

The email contains the same information i can see on their website and i didn't receive answer to my questions.

[hoggy]

That's a horrible moment.  I didn't preorder, but I feel betrayed.

I'm just hoping another company steals the design - (I'm looking at you, KBC.).

[Keymonger]

Call me crazy, but I still believe they are legit. I think it is their competency, not their legitimacy, that is questionable.

[keyboardlover]

Call me crazy, but I still believe they are legit. I think it is their competency, not their legitimacy, that is questionable.

But doesn't one really require the other?

[Forsaken]

Call me crazy, but I still believe they are legit. I think it is their competency, not their legitimacy, that is questionable.

Fake addresses and phone numbers are worse than a "competency" issue. I can't see a legitimate business faking their contact info. But who knows...

[taswyn]

Call me crazy, but I still believe they are legit. I think it is their competency, not their legitimacy, that is questionable.

I still won't jump at accusing Architect of necessarily being a TE shill, but as to TE themselves I think their legitimacy is entirely the question. Like I said before, *way* too many red flags, even if things like their address and phone number checked out. I'm hopeful for people who already spent money, but I'll admit my expectations are low to non-existent, and I can't stress strongly enough that I would never give money to a group under these circumstances unless it equally wouldn't bother me to simply throw it in the trash, or light it on fire, or do something similarly destructive with it.

As to the apparently fake whois, if they're a registered corporation/entity their address should be on file for that, if that process is handled in a similar way in Canada as in the US.

If you really want a definite IP trace, send a reply with a linked or embedded image that you are hosting and can check access logs for, as some sort of comparison question or similarly innocuous thing with a good reason to load the image. I doubt they'd have spoofed the header, but even if they did they probably wouldn't think to be careful to run through a proxy while simply opening things... most people trip up on things like that.

[rantenki]

At least we know they are working from Canada; their mail relay on their replies to me is idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca which is a mail relay for the shaw.ca isp. It is not a public relay, so it shows they at least worked from a Canadian location (or have an army of zombie mail relays that is in Canada somewhere).

Note; I bought a Kinesis

[cbf123]

I emailed the guys at TE and pointed out the false information with the registrar.  Here's part of their response:


"Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and as we are currently only accepting pre-orders, we are keeping information about our company as confidential as possible. Once we start taking normal orders, we will publish our head office address and our telephone number in our website.  We have now opted like many other corporations to have the 'who is' information private; once in place, we will restore our information following ICANN policy."

 
"Customers who pre-ordered their keyboards prior to December 1st, 2010, like yourself, have a delivery delay as we experienced manufacturing hurdles which were out of our control. We were keen to avoid any circumstances under which the quality of the shipped Truly Ergonomic Keyboard might be viewed as unsatisfactory, and many of our pre-ordering customers have accepted the delay as being prudent. We are grateful to our pre-order customers for showing us patience and support."


Finally, in response to me bringing up the possibility of requiring a refund, here's the important bit:

"....simply reply to this email stating you no longer want to benefit from of all the advantages provided by the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard that no other product provides, do not want to receive a gift certificate in the amount of fifty US dollars, and would like to receive a full refund of your purchase."


I haven't quite decided what I'm going to do.  I really want one of these keyboards if they exist, and I ordered at the $150 price so if they turn out to be real I'd be out $50 if I reordered at the full price later.  On the other hand, cancelling would probably be the prudent thing to do.

[hoggy]

You've paid them money - why should they hide their address from you?

"Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and [customers wanting their money back]"

Bless.

[Lanx]

"....simply reply to this email stating you no longer want to benefit from of all the advantages provided by the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard that no other product provides, do not want to receive a gift certificate in the amount of fifty US dollars, and would like to receive a full refund of your purchase."

Wow they are giving you the hard sell lol. I remembered when I worked retail, we'd sell ppl computers/laptops and they wanted a refund so we give them store credit. What are some ppl gonna do with $4,000 store credit? when they don't like the store after we treat them like dog poo? (we make it impossible for regular ppl to return items back then, a B&M nyc store with 2 returns line? lol) They can try to get a refund, but only the most bulldog ppl can get one, after 4hours of arguing, they'd wait even more if they spent a lot of money just to run them down. In the end, we all just sang "we got your money, we got your money"

TE is doing the same thing, they're singing "we got your money"

[nesiax]

I emailed the guys at TE and pointed out the false information with the registrar.  Here's part of their response:


"Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and as we are currently only accepting pre-orders, we are keeping information about our company as confidential as possible. Once we start taking normal orders, we will publish our head office address and our telephone number in our website.  We have now opted like many other corporations to have the 'who is' information private; once in place, we will restore our information following ICANN policy."

 
"Customers who pre-ordered their keyboards prior to December 1st, 2010, like yourself, have a delivery delay as we experienced manufacturing hurdles which were out of our control. We were keen to avoid any circumstances under which the quality of the shipped Truly Ergonomic Keyboard might be viewed as unsatisfactory, and many of our pre-ordering customers have accepted the delay as being prudent. We are grateful to our pre-order customers for showing us patience and support."


Finally, in response to me bringing up the possibility of requiring a refund, here's the important bit:

"....simply reply to this email stating you no longer want to benefit from of all the advantages provided by the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard that no other product provides, do not want to receive a gift certificate in the amount of fifty US dollars, and would like to receive a full refund of your purchase."


I haven't quite decided what I'm going to do.  I really want one of these keyboards if they exist, and I ordered at the $150 price so if they turn out to be real I'd be out $50 if I reordered at the full price later.  On the other hand, cancelling would probably be the prudent thing to do.

I wrote to the TE People, asking for the same fake information and i receive the same email as you:

Thank you for considering the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. We believe our product would be an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can serve to increase your typing efficiency.

We apologize for the delayed response due to the high volume of emails we are currently receiving.

In regard to your inquiries, please find the following information which we hope you find useful:

1)
Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and as we are currently only accepting pre-orders, we are keeping information about our company as confidential as possible. Once we start taking normal orders, we will publish our head office address and our telephone number in our website.

2)
Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, and telemarketers, same as above, we removed our phone number and address from our domain name registrar. We have now opted like many other corporations to have the 'who is' information private; once in place, we will restore our information following ICANN policy.

Please visit our website to learn more: http://www.trulyergonomic.com

You can place your pre-order securely here: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/preorder.html

Please send us an email should you have any additional questions or require additional information.

Regards,

Michelle
Customer Service
Truly Ergonomic Ltd.

The contents of this email are to be read only by its intended recipients; they are not meant to be forwarded or posted elsewhere, in whole or in part. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.

[hoggy]

The contents of this email are to be read only by its intended recipients; they are not meant to be forwarded or posted elsewhere, in whole or in part. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.

Luckily this instruction was at the end of the message.  Imagine if you had read the entire message before posting it here.

There's a word for this.  In fact, there are many, but here are very few appropriate fingers...

[rantenki]

Fake addresses and phone numbers are worse than a "competency" issue. I can't see a legitimate business faking their contact info. But who knows...

I agree , and that is a big part of the reason that I bought a Kinesis Advantage instead. Under $300 shipped CDN for a known good keyboard with way less risk. They even threw in a goldtouch ergo mouse

A cop friend of mine has a saying; "If it looks like a rat, it's a rat". In this case, it looks like TE is a rat, so odds are...

Although, if you are going to run a scam, you could pick a larger target market.

[V21]

Just to add a data point, here is my history of dealing with TE:

late Dec -- discovered TE website, got psyched about product though a bit suspicious
1/5 -- placed pre-order for $188US total, paid via AmEx / paypal
shortly after 1/5 -- discover geekhack forum, find out about the 1st batch getting postponed to March, start worrying a lot more about the possibility of having been scammed
1/13 -- email TE asking for immediate refund
1/17 -- receive TE reply trying to persuade me to reconsider the many advantages of not cancelling and they need me to re-request refund for them to do it
1/18 -- email TE to say yes I really did want a refund
1/18 -- refund appears on my AmEx account

[jpc]

I have a Kinesis Advantage now. And let me tell you. There is simply no comparison to the TE. o_O

[Tracer]

I have a Kinesis Advantage now. And let me tell you. There is simply no comparison to the TE. o_O

Well, not having used a TE, I don't think that's a fair statement.

I got a chance to use the Advantage for a month or so at my previous job. Because of the small size of my hands, I actually found that it wasn't as comfortable as I would have liked. I also didn't like the size of the keyboard, nor the hight of it on my desk.

The thing that appeals to be about the TE, is the fully programmable 109 model. This way I can have the keys similar in layout to any other keyboard, including the one on my thinkpad. I have no interest in using separate keyboard layouts on the different computers I have to use.

I am concerned about the legitimacy of TE. However, working in the domains business I can understand his point about spam etc. Before discovering whois privacy, I would receive all sorts of bull**** scams using the information in my whois record. I'm sure this guy is running this venture out of his house and doesn't want to be harassed.

[Lanx]

Just to add a data point, here is my history of dealing with TE:

late Dec -- discovered TE website, got psyched about product though a bit suspicious
1/5 -- placed pre-order for $188US total, paid via AmEx / paypal
shortly after 1/5 -- discover geekhack forum, find out about the 1st batch getting postponed to March, start worrying a lot more about the possibility of having been scammed
1/13 -- email TE asking for immediate refund
1/17 -- receive TE reply trying to persuade me to reconsider the many advantages of not cancelling and they need me to re-request refund for them to do it
1/18 -- email TE to say yes I really did want a refund
1/18 -- refund appears on my AmEx account

LoL, TE really should ship out a protype to iMav at least, at least then someone could prove that it actually exists.