Author Topic: Project:Kinesis destruction (Read 11590 times)

Lanx · « **on:** Wed, 31 August 2011, 11:56:57 »

i was throwing around the idea of playing with a topre, but just seems far reaching for now, i will go ahead and just finish my V2 ms ergo4k mod in late september, and after that i want to play around with a kinesis.
Course i'm gonna gut it up, and i guess sorta make it into some kind of mash up, i probably won't even keep the controller, i notice in a lot of kinesis mods ppl really try to keep the original controller around, since i've already decoded a g15, i'll just buy a used one and take that controller (and i don't want to deal with a new teesy).

i'll be reading up on the mods from you guys, mainly i'm interested in the deep concave of it, guess i'll be hitting up ebay and see what nuggets i find.
*note* don't expect anything for a long time, lol this is like already a "backburner" project.

sordna · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 31 August 2011, 13:41:27 »

Good project! Were you thinking to put flat PCB's in those keywells, or keep the switches in the bowl arrangement? I'd love to try a Kinesis where the keys are recessed in the case like it is now, but the keys in each section are laid flat. The 2 flat sections should be angled in relationship to each other of course (tented).

Lanx · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 31 August 2011, 14:02:37 »

what's the terminology for keywells? i've seen it in your' and IN's mods is that the thumb area?

i was thinking about basically cutting out the 2 concave parts, angling them a bit center and giving them an incline towards the middle. But i don't know how that's all gonna be until i "get a kinesis" in my hands and see it heh.
oh and i would "extend" the right side with regular 6x2(home,insert,pgdn etc) and arrow keys along with return/backspace yea i know whats the point of the kinesis then?

sordna · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 31 August 2011, 14:17:31 »

Keywells are the concave areas, also known as bowls, that contain most of the keys (letters/numbers/etc).

Lanx · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 31 August 2011, 14:22:36 »

ah ok, well imo the one great thing about the kinesis is the concave area so that's the main i'd be modding it would be to have a concave format. (i guess they're called wells cuz it's like a physical well?) I might actually get this started soon, didn't know InputN sold stuff.

Lanx · « **Reply #5 on:** Sun, 04 September 2011, 23:07:58 »

Ok i got at least 1 kinesis coming in that i'mma gonna destroy, i feel tho that i "MUST" give the kinesis a good try as a standalone kinesis before i start modding it, that's why i got 2, one to mod and one to play with.
I gotta find a g15 controller board around, tho maybe it's time to try a teensy it might be less hassle with those ready made pins with a teensy tbh and i'm not all that cool on the macro's anymore with the g15.
of course i do plan on modding up my V2 ms ergo 4k mod first, but i'm gonna make some adjustments, i think i can actually do both projects at once.

Anyone got any teensy advice? usage? maybe i'll see what the mods are here for a teensy.

so i plan to angle the kinesis keypads center, i plan to bring them together, and slope them as well, incline it and a regular 2x6 and arrow key area along with return/backspace and try to "keep" the thumb area.

late september mod, so we'll see if i can get the parts in, still gotta find 30awg wire!

Lanx · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 16:39:14 »

wow, kinesis really is nice, it's some i could even "adjust" to. how i turn off the sound again on a classic? can't find info so fast. But i wanna get to modding! (so far i know i'll replace "Delete" with shift) and i still want to make a 2x6 and arrow key the kinesis way is just too weird for me atm. typing this on a kinesis atm, pretty nice, but i think for "heavy" duty work imma use my ergo 4k v1, gonna try to mod the delete to shift now.

might even use the thumb button arrangement on my new v2 mod.

sordna · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 18:01:11 »

To turn off the click sounds: program+backslash. To turn off the capslock sound: program+dash

Hey, don't destroy it yet, give it a week, it's a good layout!

To remap keys it's easy, for example to make your Delete button do shift, the steps are:
program+F12
shift
delete
program+F12

You can remap multiple keys in a single session, just hit "source key" (to copy a function from) followed by "destination key" (to copy the function to), then another source key, then another destination key, etc, and when you're all done, hit program+F12. Note, the source key always copies the original function of the key (it doesn't matter if it has been remapped). After you remap you Delete button to shift for instance, you can still assign the Delete function to say the capslock key by pushing Delete, then capslock.
It's a VERY nifty controller, best I've ever seen.

Oh, to bring a remapped key to its original state, just push it twice during remap mode:
Delete
Delete

HTH, and congratulations!

Lanx · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 19:48:29 »

i already desoldered the "D" since it was stick and desoldered "delete" and gonna use that for shift soon, have no idea how the "diodes" will affect stuff tho since i never dealt with all that, i'll have to see i guess.

sordna · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 20:03:59 »

I thought you wanted to remap Delete to do Shift instead (so you can shift with your thumb), why do you need to de-solder it when you can program it instead ? I probably misunderstood something ....

By the way, the arrows keys on the Kinesis are actually nice. If you are used to vi, just swap the up/down arrows and you'll find it more intuitive (it will feel like using j/k in vi)

Lanx · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 20:10:44 »

i didn't know about the reprogramming, lol i resoldered it back together heh, i thought i got the non programmable one, i just got mixed up.

sordna · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 20:44:41 »

Haha, the Esssential is the only non-programmable contoured Kinesis. The Classic is fully programmable, just like the latest USB ones. See my post #8 for how to remap keys, it's super easy.

EDIT: Here's the manual.

Lanx · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 21:36:23 »

i musta done something wrong? i do
program +f12
delete
shift
program+f12

like you said but i only get the left side shift, lol i can't get the right side to shift, that's weird.

Lanx · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 22:02:50 »

figured out some keys work some don't, must be the matrix, guess i'll have to desolder and just repurpose a shift key then.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 09 September 2011, 23:49:32 »

The board you have has a problem? Did the seller indicate that? You may want to unplug and re-plug the keywell. I agree with Sordna, you could use the board for at least a few days to get a feel for it, that may alter/refine your ideas of the mod.

Lanx · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 10 September 2011, 00:16:49 »

board seems fine, just that i couldn't remap "delete" to shift for some reason. rather it did work but for only half the letters, i'm thinking it's just a matrix issue. so i just rewired the thing and "delete" works as shift just perfectly now. But man getting used to this is gonna be a lot of work heh, first to get used to matrix and then the keywells, along with the extra keys on the bottom row, heh, guess it'll take a while. the bads suck btw, the faux leather of the ms ergo 4k was pretty nice compared to this felt. i really do like the thumbs, didn't think i'd get so used to them so quickly.

Lanx · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 10 September 2011, 13:28:25 »

i somehow made the assumption that i don't use the "delete" key, so i rewired the delete key back in but as a switch inside and i just reprogrammed one of the "ctrl" keys (right side) as delete. oh btw i don't have nubs on my F,J had to reuse ones from SP. i would've rewired the ctrl key as a real delete key instead, but there was so many wires heh.

Minskleip · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 10 September 2011, 16:16:41 »

Better than your modded MS board?

Lanx · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 10 September 2011, 22:20:47 »

well i do have to give it a fair amount of time to play with first.

Lanx · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun, 11 September 2011, 12:40:34 »

man i have two big issues, one is the "extra" bottom row, i'm not used to it, to the point that i hit those keys by accident because i expect those keys to be the regular letter keys. second is i catch myself hitting the "phantom" delete and return keys only to notice i'm hitting air, heh, i really do like the key wells tho and i think the way it's positioned it does not have to be inclined like the ergo 4k is. the thumb area really is nice imo, but i really am starting to miss the standard 2x6 and arrow cluster for navigation, i'm not a real "home snob" where my hands have to be on home keys all the time so i guess that's why i really don't mind.

don't know if i want to ergo clear this kinesis now tho, i prolly should.

sordna · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun, 11 September 2011, 18:02:26 »

You might want to connect a footswitch to the keyboard (any switch will do, really, check this page for the pin-out information. You can do up to 3 functions with footswitches, one of them is to enable the numpad layer temporarily (while the switch is held down). You can remap an arrow-key cluster arrangement, or any other set of keys, on either "bowl", and it will be active while you hold down the footswitch. A very easy mod would be to wire a regular extra switch on the keyboard, say below the left or right shift to the footswitch wires, and do the same thing without having to use your foot.

Lanx · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun, 11 September 2011, 18:06:38 »

i did initially also plan a footswitch for my v2 mod but decided against it since i don't feel like "driving" my keyboard and it'll only be for the shift key anyway or any type of modifer. The thumb switch that i remodded for shift is pretty nice, thats one thing i have to incorporate.

Lanx · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 11 September 2011, 20:50:37 »

figured out how to stop myself from typing the "extra" row by accident, i flipped the bottom 4 keys 180 so that it "stops" the concave motion. Haven't had a miss-type or pressing the damn arrow keys by accident since. I've noted that the lines in yellow, you kinda have to shave a bit off since it's slanted, whatever so just use an exacto knife (dremel will just mess it up). also i flipped the enter/delete keys, the normal way they were faced it was "irritating" my thumbs, oh yea and used f/j with nubs. Typing got a whole lot comfortable once i did this, no more mistakes with the bottom row and thumb is less chaffed.

sordna · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 11 September 2011, 20:53:57 »

Haha, very creative idea!

Lanx · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 12 September 2011, 02:29:54 »

man, now i'm searching online for "faux leather" i really hate these stick on pads, the faux leather on the ms ergo 4k was so good. but i don't want to learn how to sew!

sordna · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 12 September 2011, 10:12:52 »

Consider going without pads. I used the pads for years, but finally got rid of them and I like it better now!

Lanx · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon, 12 September 2011, 15:41:22 »

i might do that, all these years kinesis never made a faux leather option?

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon, 12 September 2011, 19:41:50 »

No, just a couple colors of the pads.

I've never used the pads all these years until this last year, and kind of like them. I want to try something better though and see how it compares. I've been checking McMaster-Carr for their different foams and such. I'd like to check something just as thin or thinner, slightly more robust. Almost like a tacky pad so I'm not just on the plastic.

Lanx · « **Reply #28 on:** Tue, 13 September 2011, 03:11:40 »

ok... now i'm having second thoughts about modding in the enter/delete keys on the right side i'm 90% comfortable with the thumbs now... which sucks cuz now i'm torn between going back to my v1/ finishing my v2 or doing this kinesis mod!!! no wonder this stupid keyboard basically remained unchanged for nearly 20 years.

gah i'm even playing with the sounds since the fiance is gonna be travelling for a few weeks.

i'm thinking now that i have to at least give it an incline... it really does need that.
i want it more together still and angled.
i think i'll plop in a 2x6/arrow cluster right in the middle... might be too much

argh these keywells are too awesome.

oh i'm 50/50 on doing function replacements

or i can totally scrap that and combine this with like 30 more buttons and add in a g13/g15 but then it'd just be a faux/fake maltron.

arh totally confused now.

sordna · « **Reply #29 on:** Tue, 13 September 2011, 03:30:04 »

Hmm, I would say finish your other keyboard mods and use the Kinesis as is, while the other keyboards are in bits and pieces. You know exactly what your v1/v2 mods need, so you might as well complete them. This will give you more time to get used to the Kinesis, so by the time your v1/v2 mods are finished, you'll have a better idea of things to do with the Kinesis without regretting them :-)

Lanx · « **Reply #30 on:** Tue, 13 September 2011, 03:32:55 »

but i'm like a spoiled brat, finishing up my matrix mod... i'll be missing the concave keywells! i will be adding two thumb switches for each thumb i guess. (i don't think you want me to destroy this kinesis)

sordna · « **Reply #31 on:** Tue, 13 September 2011, 03:39:29 »

Having used these for years, the mods I consider worthwile are:
1. Cutting it in 2 halves, so they can be angled more.
2. Adding 4 extra switches, 2 under the shifts, and 2 more in the thumb areas. I'd love to have momentary access to the keypad layer and I always wanted extra keys to remap stuff onto.

Anyway, this is my favorite Kinesis mod, although I have no idea who did it:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 26516[/ATTACH]

Lanx · « **Reply #32 on:** Tue, 13 September 2011, 04:33:15 »

yea that mod looks easy enough to do too, prolly no soldering work to be done since the connectors are bendy, just a few screws and wood, lol. That's too much of an angle for me though, i rather like it near flat, just a bit more angled both ways.

Lanx · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 14 September 2011, 17:49:18 »

man desoldering kinesis switches are no joke, it's that stupid glue they use to hold it all in, i guess i didn't read anyone's wiki on it, so i just desoldered and put a screwdriver to the middle and hammered it off. but now i got ergo clears, yea i like it... of course the 2 more prominent kinesis users seem to prefer reds.

Lanx · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 14 September 2011, 18:39:47 »

arh can't turn off sounds for some reason, tried all types of combinations, guess imma gonna have to desolder the speaker.

sordna · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 14 September 2011, 19:14:20 »

Hold the Program button and the backlsash key (2 positions under the Program button) together

Lanx · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 14 September 2011, 21:05:02 »

yea i did that, read the manual and everything, so in the end, just took the more direct route and de-soldered the speaker, damn difficult too cuz it was one of those tiny connections, idk why i couldn't turn off the speaker, but i don't ever really want sound anyway. I can hear plenty find from the "tactility" and such, maybe i'll go and do the rubber mod i guess and try that out too, at least that mod i don't have to de-solder lol. I swapped the "thumb" keys so that now i have a concave slope where the two thumbs meet, it's a nice place to rest you're thumbs... still undecided about how much i can mod, but for that i'll need my second kinesis first, since now i'm used to this kinesis, i don't want to "destroy" guess this means no more staggered for me ever (except on laptop).

Lanx · « **Reply #37 on:** Thu, 15 September 2011, 20:07:15 »

using the kinesis for a daily driver for a while, and my shoulders are starting to feel "it" now, which from experience means that my arms are too farm spread out/shoulder (from having a full keyboard and mouse) so i guess i'll try to start modding soon or something.

Lanx · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun, 18 September 2011, 21:45:38 »

gonna start modding my v2 mod soon, (after clean up) gonna use this for both thumbs it feels really nice

i think i'll be able to achieve that on my v2 mod by cuttin up some numpad 0 buttons. it fits fine on the kinesis, but for my v2 i'll be using the spacebar and as you can imagine there's a vertical issue as to how much space i have there, i think i can fit 5 buttons, and i'll have it more aligned with my thumb position basically and one or even 2 buttons in between, i'll have to see.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #39 on:** Mon, 19 September 2011, 00:39:38 »

Quote from: sordna;415376

2. Adding 4 extra switches, 2 under the shifts, and 2 more in the thumb areas. I'd love to have momentary access to the keypad layer and I always wanted extra keys to remap stuff onto.

Where are you thinking the 2 keys would be in the thumb areas?

Lanx · « **Reply #40 on:** Fri, 23 September 2011, 17:12:33 »

i've been thinking it over... and i might go lazy and just transplant 2 kinesis keywells into a ms ergo 4k... i know i know... why!, well... i honestly have no idea how i'mma gonna cut up a kinesis and position it nicely without whipping out an erector set to hold it up.

Lanx · « **Reply #41 on:** Sat, 24 September 2011, 13:57:53 »

ok so i have a kinesis white and ms ergo 4k coming in the next week... time to merge! or transplant i guess.

Lanx · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 28 September 2011, 15:15:42 »

delay after delay modding this kinesis... so the second kinesis i've tried to buy is "held up" and i got a 20$ msergo 4k but without the bottom attachment, now i have to send that back (w/o the attachment it's worthless to me) good lord, i just want to remod a kinesis, is that too much to ask? (and i don't want to mod the kinesis i have now since it's become my daily driver, unless i finish my v2 mod, which is also getting a setback of limited time) argh. so i just make a wiki, so i don't clog up this section? not like there's much going on here anyways.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 28 September 2011, 16:35:46 »

I feel so guilty!!! Sorry Lanx!

Lanx · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 28 September 2011, 22:55:51 »

it's cool, now however i have a third kinesis coming in, (it was only 40bucks) wtf! so many kinesis lol.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #45 on:** Thu, 29 September 2011, 01:54:45 »

heh heh
That is definitely far and few between. It's worth that just as parts.

Pics brother, pics.

bluecar5556 · « **Reply #46 on:** Mon, 03 October 2011, 05:27:36 »

To remove switches from the keywells, I used a pair of needles nose pliers to rip off the glue surrounding the switch but if using this method, be careful to not slip and bend the leads. Then I cranked the temp controlled iron to 850°F, tinned all four leads of the switch, and VERY LIGHTLY pulling the flexible pcb up while heating the leads in a circular motion until the switch is removed. Since 850°F was used, I had about 1-1.5 seconds to get in and out of there and worked very well in my opinion, not being in too much of a rush to allow everything enough time to cool down in between. In fact, this is the method I used to remove ALL of the switches from both keywells so I could take PCB scans for pinouts and let me tell you, it look some patience.

One day I might make a youtube video for clarification when I get done moving.

Lanx · « **Reply #47 on:** Mon, 03 October 2011, 09:50:24 »

i like my method, your's takes too much precision, mines just a barbarian method lol, just desolder all 4 points, put a screwdriver to the end of the switch and have it act like a chisel, and whack it! some really glued keyswitches takes a few whacks but i haven't broken any yet.

bluecar5556 · « **Reply #48 on:** Mon, 03 October 2011, 10:42:26 »

Kinesis uses some very tough hot glue, that's for sure! Chiseling it off with a screwdriver or pulling it off with pliers, whichever works for you because my forearm was burning so bad from squeezing those damn pliers over and over and had to take several breaks.

Lanx · « **Reply #49 on:** Fri, 07 October 2011, 23:18:02 »

i've made a wiki thread for this, and gonna post how stuff goes in that thread, only very preliminary stuff so far, but i "think" i know what i want, and how to make it. Cobbling lots of stuff from what i learned v1/v2 projects and of course whatever insights ppl give.

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Author Topic: Project:Kinesis destruction (Read 11590 times)