Author Topic: Truly Ergenomic  (Read 56850 times)

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Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #200 on: Tue, 16 November 2010, 08:02:29 »
Well, that's not too hard to obtain. I'm sure Autohotkey could help you. Linux is a bit more interesting due to how things work internally, but still doable.

But the current keyboard locking stems from how CapsLock used to be released by pressing Shift, and not CapsLock again (typewriters and old keyboards, like my DisplayWriter).

Anyways, I pretty much agree with you. Though I end up mapping right shift to a different Shift as the only thing I ever use it for (on keyboards other than the uTron) is to do AltGr stuff.
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Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #201 on: Tue, 16 November 2010, 14:47:01 »
My first computer had Shift Lock, which not only operated as shift on all keys, it was also a toggle switch. There was nothing wrong with that system, it was just different.

Microsoft's StickyKeys is actually quite good. I have it set up so pressing Shift once affects only the following key. Pressing it twice locks it on for all following keys. Pressing Shift plus any key turns off the lock status, as does pressing Shift on its own.

The problems with it are (1) it makes Ctrl and Alt sticky as well, and (2) the level of feedback is inadequate - it's easy to lose track of what state it is in.

(1) and (2) combined add up to big problems, so I normally have the feature turned off.

EDIT> I just rediscovered another awful thing about Stickykeys. It makes the Windows key sticky as well. If you want to press it to get the start menu up, you have to press it three times. Of course you'll forget this and wonder if your PC has crashed when it doesn't respond properly.
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 November 2010, 20:51:11 by Rajagra »

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #202 on: Tue, 16 November 2010, 16:24:56 »
i've forced myself to use middle finger for "C" for the past few days and i get it 80% of the time (meaning i don't use my index finger) so i think learning "correctly" ain't so bad(i will mess up x,z i have no ring finger strength!)

Offline zefrer

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« Reply #203 on: Wed, 17 November 2010, 08:41:18 »
Lanx, you really need to try a Kinesis (of the contoured range). The key positions are absolutely spot on for using the correct finger for each key.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #204 on: Wed, 17 November 2010, 08:59:27 »
won't i be basically making a non curved kinesis?

Offline zefrer

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« Reply #205 on: Wed, 17 November 2010, 09:43:02 »
Well sort of. That's why I said you should try the kinesis :)

In your layout for example the columns are straight but so are the rows . That's not the case on the kinesis (ignoring depth) and you have for example the Z key slightly lower than the X key that is next to it and the C key to the right of X is lower than X but not as low as Z. This is so the Z key is easiest to hit with your pinky which is the smallest of the 4 fingers excluding thumb. Every other key position is likewise adjusted depending on which finger is to be hitting it.

Offline krstf

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« Reply #206 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 05:25:26 »
A propos Black Friday discount... http://www.trulyergonomic.com/index.html

I took the plunge (109 key international with browns), and have apparently made "an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can look forward to increased typing efficiency."

Anxiously awaiting January 2011 ;)

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #207 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 09:33:06 »
Hmm, tempting, but I'm still gonna hold out, till it's actually released.
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Offline Johannes

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« Reply #208 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 13:03:00 »
Quote from: site
But when you use a conventional keyboard day after day, you have a high risk of getting CTS or RSI as anyone can develop these conditions through repetitive typing and the use of conventional keyboards.

MAKE YOURSELF SAFE with a Truly Ergonomic Keyboard!

I think this is FUD. There is compelling evidence against RSI being real:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/page/Repetitive+Strain+Injuries+-+RSI

Offline Johannes

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« Reply #209 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 13:23:46 »
Quote from: kishy;253039
Welcome to geekhack, and...

There is now compelling evidence that you don't know what you're talking about :)

I'm quite sure these things are not imaginary or fabricated.

How about you actually read Sarno's books? :) I think he knows what he's talking about, having successfully treated over ten thousand patients at the Rusk Institute by educating them on his beliefs of a psychological and emotional basis to their pain and symptoms.
« Last Edit: Sat, 27 November 2010, 13:27:40 by Johannes »

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #210 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 14:39:30 »
Quote from: Johannes;253042
How about you actually read Sarno's books? :) I think he knows what he's talking about, having successfully treated over ten thousand patients at the Rusk Institute by educating them on his beliefs of a psychological and emotional basis to their pain and symptoms.


so give a tl:dr version
he's had ppl come in and say this is painful and hurts, i think i have rsi.

sort of like treating this as a phantom limb? where ppl think that they still have a arm(even tho it got amputated) and wake up hurting cuz of it?

or is he saying ergonomics is bs?

cuz that'd be like saying the NES controller was the best controller ever made with all it's rectangleness.

Offline Johannes

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« Reply #211 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 15:02:27 »
Quote from: Lanx;253068
or is he saying ergonomics is bs?

cuz that'd be like saying the NES controller was the best controller ever made with all it's rectangleness.

No. Ergonomics are good; they increase comfort and sometimes efficiency. He is saying that poor ergonomics won't make you develop an injury or chronic pain.

Quote from: kishy
Fair enough. I have, however, known more than enough people (am related to some, in fact) who have developed pain in joints that were used for the same repetitive motions as part of their jobs/careers, for years.

There may be psychological "RSI" diseases...but there are real ones too. It's impossible to disprove something that is true.
The books explain it all.
Quote from: Lanx
so give a tl:dr version
It's quite involved.
This is a short summary of his work, explaining the general idea: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
« Last Edit: Sat, 27 November 2010, 15:21:26 by Johannes »

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #212 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 16:56:52 »
whats considered poor ergonomics? if something that is ergonomic becomes poor ergonomic then i'd believe it is no longer ergonomic.

Offline Johannes

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« Reply #213 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 17:04:25 »
Quote
whats considered poor ergonomics?
It's subjective. The point is that you should not think of typing ergonomics as a matter of health, only comfort and efficiency.

Quote
if something that is ergonomic becomes poor ergonomic then i'd believe it is no longer ergonomic.
Yeah...

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #214 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 18:59:07 »
J, some of us have RSI, regardless of your data on theURL. You'll not make friends pontificating those same source materials repetitively in the face of contrary personal experience and competing historical evidence. With such a firm belief, you can wait a couple dozen posts and then argue with more foundation in the community.

Quote from: Lanx;253068
sort of like treating this as a phantom limb? where ppl think that they still have a arm(even tho it got amputated) and wake up hurting cuz of it?


I cut my hair and now have a phantom pony tail. not kidding.
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #215 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 19:00:55 »
OOPS DOUBLE

Quote
if something that is ergonomic becomes poor ergonomic then i'd believe it is no longer ergonomic.

Is ergonomic like pregnant? You can't be poorly pregnant; you is or you aint.
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Offline Lanx

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« Reply #216 on: Sat, 27 November 2010, 19:53:24 »
Quote from: Johannes;253117
It's subjective. The point is that you should not think of typing ergonomics as a matter of health, only comfort and efficiency.

am i the only one getting confused here? ergonomics and comfort and efficiency go hand in hand or one can mean the other.

if i'm comfortable at my desk then i'm sure as hell healthy as well.

i think we need a better tl:dr cuz it sounds like you got a messed up version of someone elses tl:dr and your giving us an even worse version of an already tl:dr.

Offline hoggy

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« Reply #217 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 04:28:57 »
I think you could have a sliding scale of ergonomics...

From very unergonomic - very likely to cause problems, awkward and not anatomically sensible movements required.

To very ergonomic - controls set naturally under the fingers (or feet) and comfortable sensible motions required to use them.

Disclaimer - I don't really know what I'm talking about - please feel free to disagree.

Some keyboards require a lot of force and the keys need to be hit dead centre...
Some keyboards don't require enough force so just resting your fingers on them can trigger a keypress.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
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Offline Johannes

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« Reply #218 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 05:39:40 »
hoggy: Yeah, ergonomics is a scale.

Quote from: Lanx;253158
am i the only one getting confused here? ergonomics and comfort and efficiency go hand in hand or one can mean the other.

if i'm comfortable at my desk then i'm sure as hell healthy as well.

i think we need a better tl:dr cuz it sounds like you got a messed up version of someone elses tl:dr and your giving us an even worse version of an already tl:dr.

Um, you are utterly misunderstanding my posts.
I'll rehash: What's considered an "unergonomic" keyboard or posture won't cause you injury or chronic pain. I am not offering any tl;dr version of dr. Sarno's works, only part of his conclusion, used against the FUD I quoted from the Truly Ergonomic site. If you want to understand the phenomenom, it can't be summarized in one line, you need to read what I linked to 2 posts back (or better, dr. Sarno's books)

I am not against the keyboard itself, only the scarce tactics they use to raise interest. The more such "typing causes injury" claims float around, the more people will develop wrist pain as a TMS symptom; fear is a major ingredient.
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 November 2010, 05:52:30 by Johannes »

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #219 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 08:27:39 »
Quote from: Johannes;253286

I am not against the keyboard itself, only the scarce tactics they use to raise interest. The more such "typing causes injury" claims float around, the more people will develop wrist pain as a TMS symptom; fear is a major ingredient.


oh you should have said that, a huge chunk of the GH population thinks that not only is the truelyergonomic bs with all of the 3d only renders, and the "reviews" of virtual products from suspect individuals to delay after delay of shipping dates, to the laughable marketing schemes and as you put it "scare tactics". (of we want the truelyergonomic to come to fruition too, many GH'ers have already pre-ordered one, don't want them to cancel and worse just steal ppl's money)

I personally believe ergonomics is something you wrap around your body, i make my entire desk environment conform to me.

besides my own version of the truelyergonomic is closer to becoming a reality than their 3D renders =p
(i will give truelyergonomic full credit on the 5x4 rectangle layout, that and raja, got me thinking).

Offline hoggy

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« Reply #220 on: Sun, 28 November 2010, 08:40:41 »
I'm going with Lanx on this one.  I'm hoping that those that have pre-ordered actually get the board the end - I'm not brave enough to take the plunge just yet - but if things work out I'll pay out for one.

I strongly object to the overmarketing they're pushing.  It's soo blatantly peppered with misinformation and well, plain lies.
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Offline cbf123

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« Reply #221 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 12:13:08 »
Quote from: Johannes;253286
I'll rehash: What's considered an "unergonomic" keyboard or posture won't cause you injury or chronic pain. I am not offering any tl;dr version of dr. Sarno's works, only part of his conclusion, used against the FUD I quoted from the Truly Ergonomic site.


Having not read the books or the article I can only reply anecdotally.

I'm a professional software designer, and I've seen many co-workers get chronic pain (and some injuries) from poor ergonomics in the work environment.  Since many of them don't think about ergonomics enough to do anything about it, it's hard to believe that their issues are entirely psychosomatic.
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Offline Johannes

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« Reply #222 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 12:27:25 »
Quote from: cbf123;253856
Having not read the books or the article I can only reply anecdotally.

I'm a professional software designer, and I've seen many co-workers get chronic pain (and some injuries) from poor ergonomics in the work environment.
Correction: You think their pain is caused by poor ergonomics. In TMS theory, in short, their pain is caused by their subconcious mind finding wrist pain a good hiding place from unacceptable emotions. dr. Sarno's books go into greater detail as to how the limbic and autonomous nervous systems could be capable of producing such a change. It's not "all in your head"; it's a physical change with a psychological origin. Wrist pain is a good hiding place probably because they type a lot, have heard scary stories about "RSI" and fear it. Plenty of people who have believed their pain was caused by poor ergonomics can, after being cured by dr. Sarno's works, once again type on any keyboard in any unergonomic posture they want without any pain.
Quote
Since many of them don't think about ergonomics enough to do anything about it, it's hard to believe that their issues are entirely psychosomatic.
So because they don't care about ergonomics much, that must be the cause of their pain?
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 November 2010, 12:33:33 by Johannes »

Offline kill will

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« Reply #223 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 12:39:16 »
Dr. Sarno's book made my penis grow 4 inches.

Ergonomics does exist.  Yes it may be sub conscious.  But a Gel wrist rest for your mouse WILL mess up your blood flow and cause future damage.  Short term it does feel good, but long term has bad effects.  Knowing things like these can save people a lot of pain.
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Offline Johannes

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« Reply #224 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 12:44:05 »
Yeah, ergonomics exist and are good for comfort and efficiency, but are not mandatory for avoiding chronic pain like some people claim.

Offline cbf123

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« Reply #225 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 14:23:37 »
Quote from: Johannes;253875
Yeah, ergonomics exist and are good for comfort and efficiency, but are not mandatory for avoiding chronic pain like some people claim.

I can't believe you're saying that *all* ergonomics is imaginary.  You're seriously saying that if I do repetitive work in an unhealthy posture while stressing the wrong muscles in the wrong way for hours and hours a day that it's going to have no effect?  Really?

I could accept that *some* cases might be due to psychosomatic causes...but claiming that *all* of them are is just silly.

I also think that not everyone needs "ergo" keyboards and mice, but *some* people definitely do.
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Offline cbf123

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« Reply #226 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 14:26:21 »
Quote from: Johannes;253864
In TMS theory, in short, their pain is caused by their subconcious mind finding wrist pain a good hiding place from unacceptable emotions. dr. Sarno's books go into greater detail as to how the limbic and autonomous nervous systems could be capable of producing such a change.


I can't believe you're saying that *all* ergonomics is imaginary. You're seriously saying that if I do repetitive work in an unhealthy posture while stressing the wrong muscles in the wrong way for hours and hours a day that it's going to have no effect? Really?

I could accept that *some* cases might be due to psychosomatic causes...but claiming that *all* of them are is just silly.

I also think that not everyone needs "ergo" keyboards and mice, but *some* people definitely do.
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Offline Johannes

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« Reply #227 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 14:32:37 »
Quote
I can't believe you're saying that *all* ergonomics is imaginary. You're seriously saying that if I do repetitive work in an unhealthy posture while stressing the wrong muscles in the wrong way for hours and hours a day that it's going to have no effect? Really?
It's going to cause temporary discomfort/strain that will heal fairly quickly, not a pain syndrome.
Running or weight lifting for hours and hours - far more stressful and repetitive than typing can ever be - doesn't cause injury, so why should typing? And what does "wrong muscles" mean?

And for the 100th time, I'm not saying ergonomics are imaginary, I am saying that you don't strictly need to follow ergonomic guidelines to avoid pain syndromes.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 November 2010, 14:38:57 by Johannes »

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #228 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 15:16:52 »
Quote from: Johannes;253942
It's going to cause temporary discomfort/strain that will heal fairly quickly, not a pain syndrome.
Running or weight lifting for hours and hours - far more stressful and repetitive than typing can ever be - doesn't cause injury, so why should typing? And what does "wrong muscles" mean?


I'm jumping in :biggrin:.

Now, lets consider this, if your knee hurts after running for a few hours, and you run anyways. Is this bad?

Let's then consider typing. Many people, need to type, in order to work (e.g. Programmer, typist, etc.). Now if there hands start hurting a little bit, they will notice.
Unfortunately, the work still needs to get done (or they'll get fired...). So the usual reaction is to just keep working.
Repeat for a few years.
Eventually, the small pain becomes manageable, and not really noticeable.

Unfortunately the pain is there for a reason, your body does not like something that you are doing (pinching nerves, wearing out cartilage, etc.).

The RSI occurs, once all the "safety" in your body wears out, and even a small amount of movement will cause agony (grinding of bones, cutting off of nerves). Something like this takes years of proper recovery to heal (often impossible to bring back to 100%).


Now lets jump to ergonomic keyboards.

Yes, some keyboards that are "ergonomic" are a steaming pile of dog crap. But that doesn't mean all of the are.
The general purpose of an ergonomic keyboard is to lead your body into a good typing position, without having to think about it too much.
For example, split keyboards angling your hands (you don't necessarily need to do this on a generic keyboard).

Another example, switch weight (ricercar prefers MX Browns for this reason, if I remember correctly). This has to do with the force required to actuate, and making sure not to bottom out the switch (tactility and/or sound is a very good mental queue for this).
Sure you can train yourself (as I do), to not bottom out on heavy and light linear switches, but that takes a lot of effort (months/years, not really worth it, unless you like life hacks).


Myself, I change the way I type so that I can type comfortably on the keyboard I am using. This can be switching to a standing desk style, to angle of my elbows, to the chair I'm using, to raising my wrists.
Yes this is a completely viable solution, but it takes conscious effort (mental cycles), that not everyone is willing to (or can) give to fixing their comfort while typing.
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Offline RoboKrikit

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« Reply #229 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 15:33:07 »
I read a book on ergonomics that said RSI was real, and now I'm also an expert on ergonomics and psychology who condescends to people with real problems on forums.  I encourage others to read books too!
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Offline JBert

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« Reply #230 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 16:23:37 »
Books are dangerous. Think of the children!
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #231 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 20:00:23 »
Quote from: JBert;253999
Books are dangerous. Think of the children!


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Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #232 on: Mon, 29 November 2010, 20:29:27 »
*won't read unless in electronic format*
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Offline shrap

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« Reply #233 on: Tue, 30 November 2010, 00:48:06 »
Quote from: Johannes;253942

Running or weight lifting for hours and hours - far more stressful and repetitive than typing can ever be - doesn't cause injury, so why should typing? And what does "wrong muscles" mean?


Holy **** man, you need to stay in your lane. Runners are constantly injuring themselves, with shin splints, plantar fasciitis, bad knees, etc. Weight lifters suffer from strains, dropping weights on themselves, pulled muscles, etc. Many of these people will suffer from chronic injuries over their lifetimes. And only a very, very small fraction of people run 40 hours a week, 50 weeks out of the year.

You know why they don't suffer from RSI? Cause when it hurts, they stop running, lift lighter weights, ice up, go to sports medicine doctors, and generally deal with the problem.

If your job is typing, your ability to deal with the problem is limited, if you like having a roof over your head and food on the table.

Offline Johannes

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« Reply #234 on: Tue, 30 November 2010, 10:36:51 »
Sorry, I was unclear. I meant pain syndromes. The long-standing pain people experience that they believe is from typing typically has no clear structural cause. CTS, for example:

"The rise of the Carpal Tunnel Syndrome epidemic began in the 1980s with the emergence of the computer industry. Conventional medicine blames overusing keyboards as the cause of the various hand problems including wrist pain that accompany CTS. It has been found that the pain comes from a malfunction of the median nerve in the wrist. The conventional treatment is to inject steroids or cut the ligament. This treatment comes from the believe that the median nerve is being compressed as it meets the ligament at the wrist. However studies have shown that when the ligament is cut, the nerves regain functionality too quickly for compression to be the cause. The most likely causation is from a reduction of blood flow to the area, which supports the diagnosis of TMS." - The Divided Mind

Quote from: HaaTa
Unfortunately the pain is there for a reason, your body does not like something that you are doing (pinching nerves, wearing out cartilage, etc.).

The RSI occurs, once all the "safety" in your body wears out, and even a small amount of movement will cause agony (grinding of bones, cutting off of nerves). Something like this takes years of proper recovery to heal (often impossible to bring back to 100%).
TMS theory says otherwise:

On page 94-97 in The Mindbody Prescription, John Sarno writes
"Symptoms are attributed to repetitive tasks, like working at a computer keyboard. In many cases muscle, nerve and tendon involvement are combined with symptoms in the neck, shoulders, arms and hands, often bilateral. Patients complain of pain, numbness, tingling and weakness, invariably brought on or aggravated by their job tasks...Pain, numbness and tingling involve the hand and are attributed to compression of the median nerve by a band across the wrist, the flexor retinaculum...Without the knowledge of TMS it would be impossible to explain the symptoms."

On page 93 in To Be or Not To Be Pain Free, Marc Sopher writes
"I firmly believe that RSD (repetive stress disorders)...exists only because of the legal, social, and medical sanctions in our society. Remove litigation, insurance companies, and practitioners wed to the mistaken belief in physical causes for all physical symptoms, and RSDs vanish."

Quote from: HaaTa
Yes, some keyboards that are "ergonomic" are a steaming pile of dog crap. But that doesn't mean all of the are.
Never said that, I like good ergo boards :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 November 2010, 10:39:10 by Johannes »

Offline cbf123

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« Reply #235 on: Tue, 30 November 2010, 11:11:35 »
Quote from: ripster;254334
"Canadian High Tech" company (lol - what a oxymoron)

As a Canadian, I resent that.  These guys are based in BC, which produces expert technology for getting high...

(On a more serious note, the city of Ottawa had a 6 Mbps digital network running over the cable TV system back in 1982.  Network access was 8-10$/month.  Ah, progress...)
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 November 2010, 11:16:59 by cbf123 »
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #236 on: Tue, 30 November 2010, 11:21:01 »
You must be new here, Canuck.


Offline ricercar

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« Reply #237 on: Tue, 30 November 2010, 18:31:49 »
Quote from: cbf123;254345
As a Canadian, I resent that.  These guys are based in BC, which produces expert technology for getting high...

(On a more serious note, the city of Ottawa had a 6 Mbps digital network running over the cable TV system back in 1982.  Network access was 8-10$/month.  Ah, progress...)

I call bull****. DARPA net wasn't piped into private homes in 1982 unless your name was Mandelbroot, Sagan, or Feynman. Is that a 1992 typo, or was the content something other than "internet"?
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 November 2010, 18:34:01 by ricercar »
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Offline theferenc

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« Reply #238 on: Tue, 30 November 2010, 20:20:27 »
If I remember correctly, Ottowa did have their own network, much as Hawaii did (Oloha-net). While Oloha-net was shortwave, IP based, Ottowa's was copper wire based. So it's not that far fetched, though unlikely to be available widely.

And in 1982, DARPA-net was at least that fast, but was mostly between institutions. Nothing precluded it from being piped to homes, though, except expense.

Admittedly, I haven't studied internet history in a while, but I am focused partially on networks for my PhD.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline cbf123

  • Posts: 82
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #239 on: Wed, 01 December 2010, 15:56:08 »
Quote from: ricercar;254618
I call bull****. DARPA net wasn't piped into private homes in 1982 unless your name was Mandelbroot, Sagan, or Feynman. Is that a 1992 typo, or was the content something other than "internet"?


I didn't actually say "internet" anywhere.  It was called the NABU Network.  Was originally intended to be full-speed bidirectional, but the cost to upgrade the cable plant was too high.  Only operated for a few years.

I did have uncapped 1.5Mbps ADSL in 1998 though.  Latencies were really good for gaming (better than I have now on a faster connection) since the number of people using it was so low.
Daily drivers are:
Microsoft Natural (the original, and still going strong)
Microsoft Natural Elite

Offline WhiteRice

  • Posts: 850
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #240 on: Wed, 01 December 2010, 15:56:41 »
Is there any real proof that this keyboard exists yet?

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #241 on: Wed, 01 December 2010, 16:22:27 »
they only accept paypal, at least pay will refund i guess, better use creditcard to pay through paypal just in case.

Offline Sam

  • Posts: 189
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #242 on: Wed, 01 December 2010, 20:10:25 »
The latest from their website:
Quote
Pre-orders made before December 12th have a delivery estimated for Q1 2011.
Why am I not surprised?

Offline sixty

  • Posts: 984
    • http://deskthority.net
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« Reply #243 on: Thu, 02 December 2010, 00:43:52 »
Quote
Some people recommend experimenting to determine which keyboard puts the least amount of stress on painful nerves and muscles. But who has the money and time to test all of the keyboards out there, and design a better simpler solution? You guessed right, we do

Yeah! So much money!

Quote
[...] depending on the number of pre-orders which will allow us to cost-effectively manufacture a precise quantity of each keyboard model. This reduces our overall production and inventory costs and guarantees the manufacturing of required models. [...]

I suppose they spent all their money on trying out every single keyboard on the market, thats why they now have to rely on your money to even get a single production batch out.

Seriously, **** this company and their pseudo-ergonomic keyboard, and especially all their hoax reviews of a keyboard that does not even exist. If I wanted to see fake reviews like that I would turn on some infomercials.

PS: Someone should teach them the meaning of the word "blog" - I don't think they quite get it.

Disclaimer: Just arrived at the office after 1 hour journey stuck in snow. These jokers with their keyboard were a perfect target for my 8 am rage.

Offline Johannes

  • Posts: 74
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« Reply #244 on: Thu, 02 December 2010, 06:48:01 »
Wow, they claim their down-only non-adjustable board is better than the mighty DataHand. Theirs might be more value for the price, but cmon..

Offline Keymonger

  • Posts: 166
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #245 on: Thu, 02 December 2010, 08:31:49 »
Quote from: Sam;255287
The latest from their website:

Why am I not surprised?


Quote
Pre-orders made after December 1st have a delivery date estimated for March 2011


Quote
When are pre-orders expected to be delivered?

Pre-orders made on or before November 30th, 2010 have a delivery date estimated for late January 2011.

Due to the number of pre-orders made on or before November 30th, 2010, pre-orders made on or after December 1st, 2010 have a delivery date estimated for March 2011. This is subject to change depending on the number of pre-orders which will allow us to cost-effectively manufacture a precise quantity of each keyboard model. This reduces our overall production and inventory costs and guarantees the manufacturing of required models.

Well thank goodness.

Offline Laggy-gaga

  • Posts: 160
  • Location: Perth, Western Australia
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #246 on: Thu, 02 December 2010, 10:57:59 »
Quote from: Lanx;255152
they only accept paypal, at least pay will refund i guess, better use creditcard to pay through paypal just in case.


I assume paypal can only do a refund within 30days or 60 days?
Truly Ergenomic did a prom like 2 months ago for discount,
if any 1 put money at that time, then we hope them good luck.
Working: Ducky Dragon Blue
Looking for: 356L
For sale:Benchmark DAC1+Stello U3+Amber,RS1i,GS1000i,HE400,HD650,w4r,se535LE
AU only

Offline elbowglue

  • Posts: 583
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« Reply #247 on: Thu, 02 December 2010, 11:01:27 »
This guy needs to take less time making fake reviews on his website and more time actually getting the keyboard made.  I think he has enough bull**** on the website to convince any apple lover that they need this keyboard.
My keyboards: Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless(daily home), Compaq MX11800 (modded to blacks), Compaq "MX 84u",  Wellington\'s Dampened Endurapro, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5191, Chicony KB-5181, Desko MOS 5023 UP "elbowglue" spos (modded to blues), Siig Minitouch (monterey blue), SMK-88 (blue cherries), Ricercar SPOS
Smallest to biggest keyboards in inches (Length X Height) - Length is most important for a midline mouse position

KBC Poker: 11.6 x 3.9 - HHKB: 11.6 x 4.3 - Siig Minitouch (Geekhack Space Saver): 11.6 x 6 - Deck/Tg3 82: 12 x 6 - Noppoo Choc Mini 12.4 x 5.3 - Compaq "MX 84u": 13.1 x 7.5 - Filco Tenkeyless: 14 x 5.3 - Cherry "ricercar spos" G86-62410EUAGSA: 14 x 7.75 - Topre Realforce 86u: 14.4 x 6.65 - Desko "elbowglue spos" MOS 5023 UP: 14.5 x 8.4 - IBM Model M Spacesaver: 15.3 x 7 - G80-1800: 15.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-125B: 16 x 7.3 - Compaq Mx11800, Cherry G80-11900: 16.25 x 7.5 - Filco Standard: 17.3 x 5.4 - Unicomp Endurapro: 17.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-135B: 18.3 x 6.0 - Cherry G80-3000: 18.5 x 7.6 - IBM Model M, Unicomp Customizer: 19.3 x 8.27

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #248 on: Thu, 02 December 2010, 11:29:54 »
Quote from: Laggy-gaga;255650
I assume paypal can only do a refund within 30days or 60 days?
Truly Ergenomic did a prom like 2 months ago for discount,
if any 1 put money at that time, then we hope them good luck.


actually paypal refund is only like 20days i believe, that's why i said use paypal, but pay thru with a credit card so you get the credit protection that way, i guess.

Offline Sam

  • Posts: 189
Truly Ergenomic
« Reply #249 on: Tue, 28 December 2010, 21:40:07 »
For Ray and any others who pre-ordered early, any word from them if they'll be shipping this month as originally promised?  Only a couple days left of this month. Still they're accepting pre-orders, and not regular orders.  Being it was supposed to be in production and shipping by now, I'd say it doesn't look too good.