CHERRY switches have NEW stems, supersmooth!

[Giorgio]

Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.

At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)

Not sure why Cherry is denying their existence? Me, you, & other's have had them in our hands & been inside of the revised switches. Unless my pics are fake as well... I just sent one to Chyros today so we'll see what his take is in a few days.

I forgot to tell that I've given them the address of this page, so they've seen the ongoing discussion. This secrecy is even more confusing 

More resources:
https://sketchfab.com/cherryofficial

[chyros]

Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.

At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)

I've tried to contact them about this, but they've not responded at all on this.

[tp4tissue]

did you try the old stem in the (new housing)..

From my testing on vintage blacks,  the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.

[Giorgio]

did you try the old stem in the (new housing)..

From my testing on vintage blacks,  the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.

Yes, I tried the new stem in the old housing, and they're just as smooth. Old stem in new housing is just as scratchy.

[tp4tissue]

did you try the old stem in the (new housing)..

From my testing on vintage blacks,  the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.

Yes, I tried the new stem in the old housing, and they're just as smooth. Old stem in new housing is just as scratchy.

what sample size have you tested.  how many stems, and how many housings.

[Giorgio]

did you try the old stem in the (new housing)..

From my testing on vintage blacks,  the housing was what made the pronounced smoothness, not the stems.

Yes, I tried the new stem in the old housing, and they're just as smooth. Old stem in new housing is just as scratchy.

what sample size have you tested.  how many stems, and how many housings.

some

[tp4tissue]

some

[HPE1000]

What are we talking about cherry lying? If we are talking about back in the community interview they did, it wasn't a lie when they said there wasnt a difference between newer scratchy mx blacks vs vintage blacks. There probably wasn't any difference, cherry was probably just using stupidly old molds that were getting more and more scratchy over time, as well as their QC probably went down as they couldn't properly keep up with demand. I'm sure they knew this, maybe not the person who did the interview, but that isn't exactly something they would admit, even if it was disappointing.

I'm sure if we had that interview again now, they would say there was a difference now, might not exactly admit anything about switch smoothness, but im sure they wouldn't deny there is a difference.

[tp4tissue]

What are we talking about cherry lying? If we are talking about back in the community interview they did, it wasn't a lie when they said there wasnt a difference between newer scratchy mx blacks vs vintage blacks. There probably wasn't any difference, cherry was probably just using stupidly old molds that were getting more and more scratchy over time, as well as their QC probably went down as they couldn't properly keep up with demand. I'm sure they knew this, maybe not the person who did the interview, but that isn't exactly something they would admit, even if it was disappointing.

I'm sure if we had that interview again now, they would say there was a difference now, might not exactly admit anything about switch smoothness, but im sure they wouldn't deny there is a difference.

depending on the mold,  some molds get smoother with use..

[HPE1000]

What are we talking about cherry lying? If we are talking about back in the community interview they did, it wasn't a lie when they said there wasnt a difference between newer scratchy mx blacks vs vintage blacks. There probably wasn't any difference, cherry was probably just using stupidly old molds that were getting more and more scratchy over time, as well as their QC probably went down as they couldn't properly keep up with demand. I'm sure they knew this, maybe not the person who did the interview, but that isn't exactly something they would admit, even if it was disappointing.

I'm sure if we had that interview again now, they would say there was a difference now, might not exactly admit anything about switch smoothness, but im sure they wouldn't deny there is a difference.

depending on the mold,  some molds get smoother with use..

I suppose that is true. But obviously something they were doing was causing them to get more and more scratchy over time. I'd say it could possibly just be a QC issue then, since even some older mx blacks are scratchy. I've only gone through about 300-400 vintage black switches, but id say about 1 in 10 are very scratchy, even after cleaning them up.

[menuhin]

Let's look at the revisions of Zealios switches - Zeal said that revision 3 needs some improvements in a few models, and then came revision 4 from which the specs are pretty much set. He has been very open about that.

But what if Zealios has already produced revision 3 switches worth of millions?
People will not want to buy any produce with revision 3 switches inside, if Zealios makes such an announcement officially. At least given such an official announcement of improvement, people will definitely prefer revision 4 switches.

If they don't say a single word or even deny it bluntly in a tricky / strategic / diplomatic way, the average consumers will not care too much about which keyboards they are going to get. Only a few of those enthusiasts who investigate and who really want to seek out the truth will get to the details, the details that average consumers do not care as they will just believe in the official narratives of Cherry.

My suggestion is, evidence for the truth has already been emerging, we can continue here to gather more evidence / counter-evidence to prove or to disprove our hypotheses, but we do not need to bother Cherry too much to make any official statement: We do not need to do that unless we are some of the Cherry's competitors. I am already happy enough that seemingly Cherry and Gateron are competing head to head.
We can well keep the investigation going here in GH or in DT or even /r/MK, or even on DT wiki, but keeping the truth (with our documented evidence) just among ourselves the enthusiasts. This should be enough to serve our purpose.

[ygor]

Let's look at the revisions of Zealios switches - Zeal said that revision 3 needs some improvements in a few models, and then came revision 4 from which the specs are pretty much set. He has been very open about that.

But what if Zealios has already produced revision 3 switches worth of millions?
People will not want to buy any produce with revision 3 switches inside, if Zealios makes such an announcement officially. At least given such an official announcement of improvement, people will definitely prefer revision 4 switches.

If they don't say a single word or even deny it bluntly in a tricky / strategic / diplomatic way, the average consumers will not care too much about which keyboard they are going to get. Only a few of those enthusiasts who investigate and who really want to seek out the truth will get to the details, the details that average consumers do not care as they will just believe in the official narratives of Cherry.

My suggestion is, evidence for the truth has already been emerging, but we should not bother Cherry too much to make any official statement, I am already happy enough that seemingly Cherry and Gateron are competing head to head.
We can well keep the investigation going here in GH or in DT or even /r/MK, or even on DT wiki, but keeping the truth (with our documented evidence) just among ourselves the enthusiasts should be enough to serve our purpose.

[zombimuncha]

Cherry more than likely has customers who bought the old scratchy switches and still have the some of the keyboards using said switches in stock waiting to sell. If Cherry announces that those old switches are obsolete and their new switches are better, those customers (keyboard makers) will be rather angry. Cherry surely prefers not to make its valued clients angry, as they want their repeat business.

[falkentyne]

Cherry's being lazy and lying again eh?
Cherry's marketing:

[Moistgun]

All I want are pinks cause they fell gud. if it feel gud, im gud

[Rob27shred]

Cherry states that there is only one kind of cherry mx blacks.

At this point, the mistery remains:
- they lie (unrealistic)
- they ignore that there is a new cherry mx black switch
- my pictures are fake
- I received a test product (again, unrealistic, since there are many in the wild)

Not sure why Cherry is denying their existence? Me, you, & other's have had them in our hands & been inside of the revised switches. Unless my pics are fake as well... I just sent one to Chyros today so we'll see what his take is in a few days.

I forgot to tell that I've given them the address of this page, so they've seen the ongoing discussion. This secrecy is even more confusing 

More resources:
https://sketchfab.com/cherryofficial

Thanks for the link! Yeah it is a little odd that Cherry is keeping hush hush about the changes but menuhin & zombimuncha both have a really good point as to why they are being secretive about the revision. It would make sense that they don't want the revised stems to be widely known about right now. I'm sure there is a ton of retailers who have either KBs that have the old blacks or just a bunch of the old black switches themselves in stock waiting to be sold. I'd imagine they would be pretty unhappy if Cherry was shouting from the rooftops about their new revised switches & it caused people to avoid anything with the old stock in it.

When I ordered switches for my latest build I wanted the new Cherry blacks but was concerned about being able to get them. So much so I actually ordered a batch of Gat blacks with my order from Sentraq as back up in case I got old stock blacks from SwitchTop. Thankfully they were the new ones & I was able to put my desired switches into my build, but I am curious as to how widely available the new stock? Also pretty curious if they revised the stems for all of their switches or just the linear line? I ordered 100 tactile greys fro MK.com last night so I'll post some pics of what their stems look/feel like when I get them & try to find some older pics of tactile grey stems if possible.

Let's look at the revisions of Zealios switches - Zeal said that revision 3 needs some improvements in a few models, and then came revision 4 from which the specs are pretty much set. He has been very open about that.

But what if Zealios has already produced revision 3 switches worth of millions?
People will not want to buy any produce with revision 3 switches inside, if Zealios makes such an announcement officially. At least given such an official announcement of improvement, people will definitely prefer revision 4 switches.

If they don't say a single word or even deny it bluntly in a tricky / strategic / diplomatic way, the average consumers will not care too much about which keyboards they are going to get. Only a few of those enthusiasts who investigate and who really want to seek out the truth will get to the details, the details that average consumers do not care as they will just believe in the official narratives of Cherry.

My suggestion is, evidence for the truth has already been emerging, we can continue here to gather more evidence / counter-evidence to prove or to disprove our hypotheses, but we do not need to bother Cherry too much to make any official statement: We do not need to do that unless we are some of the Cherry's competitors. I am already happy enough that seemingly Cherry and Gateron are competing head to head.
We can well keep the investigation going here in GH or in DT or even /r/MK, or even on DT wiki, but keeping the truth (with our documented evidence) just among ourselves the enthusiasts. This should be enough to serve our purpose.

Props on that post You make a very convincing argument. I would say on one hand there really is not a huge need to get confirmation from Cherry themselves right now when we already have the evidence that changes have been made. On the other hand it would be nice to have some type of official statement from Cherry, if they were to respond to Giorgio or chyros with conformation of the changes I doubt word would travel far from the enthusiast community.

Honestly though you are right about the reasons they would want to keep it hush hush about the revised stems for now. Also I have to agree that just knowing they finally stepped up & made some changes to keep up with/exceed the competition is really good enough for the enthusiast community. I'm sure in a few months or so once the old stock is just about gone Cherry will start touting their changes, because it really does make for a much smoother & pleasurable switch compared to any older modern Cherry black I have tried before. Even though it was just plain dumb luck I'm pretty happy to have 2 boards with the new blacks so early on TBH.

[Giorgio]

More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).

http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml

[testplsignore]

Does anyone know if Winkeyless has the new ones?

[menuhin]

Just a reminder, we are mostly talking about those obvious structural differences in here.

But there are also details of the finish and observable quality achieved by the manufacturing.

More

Stem's finish:
Left Zealios, Right Cherry brown


Gold crosspoint leaf's finish:
Left Cherry brown, Right Zealios


Source:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.msg1847809#msg1847809

And who manufactures Zealios?
ANS: Gateron

[tp4tissue]

Cherry's being lazy and lying again eh?
Cherry's marketing:

Show Image

is this photoshopped ?

why's it poofy like that,  what's in there. ?

[davkol]

Bierbauch

[tp4tissue]

Bierbauch

no, but in the foto,  it's structurally --upright-- even though he's laying flat.. how's the possible ?

[romevi]

Well, tickle all my cheeks. First time coming across this thread.

So--let's pretend I skimmed only the first page. What's the summation? New blacks confirmed?

[davkol]

tl;dr probably new molds

[chyros]

Well, tickle all my cheeks. First time coming across this thread.

So--let's pretend I skimmed only the first page. What's the summation? New blacks confirmed?

ALL your cheeks?

[romevi]

tl;dr probably new molds

Okay, so I skimmed a bit more.
So looks like fresh molds are causing the newest sliders to be smoother since...new molds. And that switchtop supposedly carries the freshest of batches. Can anyone else who's ordered some confirm? If this is the case, I may order some myself to use in my next board instead of vintage blacks.

Well, tickle all my cheeks. First time coming across this thread.

So--let's pretend I skimmed only the first page. What's the summation? New blacks confirmed?

ALL your cheeks?

That's what I said!

[ygor]

And that switchtop supposedly carries the freshest of batches. Can anyone else who's ordered some confirm? If this is the case, I may order some myself to use in my next board instead of vintage blacks.

I emailed Josh, dude who runs Switchtop, a few days ago. Can confirm, blacks in stock are teh new moldz.

[romevi]

And that switchtop supposedly carries the freshest of batches. Can anyone else who's ordered some confirm? If this is the case, I may order some myself to use in my next board instead of vintage blacks.

I emailed Josh, dude who runs Switchtop, a few days ago. Can confirm, blacks in stock are teh new moldz.

Sock me sideways! Vintage blacks, g'bye. New blacks, here I come!

[tp4tissue]

This has  cherry PING !! all over it for now.. 

Definitely require more reports.

[Puddsy]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

[romevi]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

Where did you order yours from? Is switchtop the only confirmed shop? I'd order from them but no PCB-mount.

[Puddsy]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

Where did you order yours from? Is switchtop the only confirmed shop? I'd order from them but no PCB-mount.

I bought mine from mechanicalkeyboards /shrug

[Rob27shred]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M.

On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.



It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.



Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?

[tp4tissue]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M.

On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?

what comparison are you saying we should be making visually.. ??

[Puddsy]

I will say, whoever does the counting at mechanicalkeyboards doesn't have the best eye. I ordered 70 switches and I got 74.

(This is Re: Rob27shred's post)

[tp4tissue]

I will say, whoever does the counting at mechanicalkeyboards doesn't have the best eye. I ordered 70 switches and I got 74.

(This is Re: Rob27shred's post)

pretty sure they just weigh it..

[Rob27shred]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M.

On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?

what comparison are you saying we should be making visually.. ??

To the part of the stem that faces away from the metal leaves in the housing, the opposite side of the arms on the stem (the 1st & 4th pics). Looking at pics from the OP that is the major difference on the old vs new blacks. Not sure if there has been any changes to the tactile stems, although these have the same shape as the new black stems.

[Rob27shred]

I will say, whoever does the counting at mechanicalkeyboards doesn't have the best eye. I ordered 70 switches and I got 74.

(This is Re: Rob27shred's post)

I think tp may be right & they do it by weight but you'd think they make sure to go a bit over like they did with your order. I'm sure they'll make it right, just sucks to only be shorted by 2 switches...

[nugglets]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M.

On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?

I think you are confusing the new and old in the OP. Those greys you posted have the old style sliders.

[Moistgun]

Oh god I need these silent grey/blacks

[Giorgio]

Oh god I need these silent grey/blacks

I've just noticed that the silent version of blacks is gray, while the silent version of reds is pink.

[menuhin]

They're 100% better. Built my LZ yesterday and it's smoother than the Filco I've been using for years.

Agreed, I got my FC660M that has them on a whim & was full well expecting somewhat scratchy blacks from prior testing & general word of mouth on Cherry blacks. I was blown away when I got it though, every switch is super smooth & the board is dead quiet. The thing just oozes quality far beyond what I was expecting from a $109 board. After that I knew for I sure I wanted the "new" Cherry Blacks for my 1st build & I thankfully got them in it. The 60% I built has the same super smooth & dead silent feel/sound as my FC660M.

On another note I got my batch of 100 Cherry tactile greys from mechanicalkeyboards.com in today (well 98 of them, I guess whoever put my order together miscounted I already emailed them about & am sure they'll make it right though. Up until this order I had nothing but great experiences buying through them). Here is some shots of the stems.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
It has the same shape as the new blacks do sans the tactile bump on the arms & the switches have a very smooth action. But I do not have any older Cherry tactile switches to compare it to unfortunately. The only older Cherry switches I had on hand were blues & whites which don't make for a good comparison but here are some pics I took anyways.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Does anyone have pics or access to some older Cherry tactile switches to take pics of the stems. I'm really curious if all Cherry switches now have the revised sliders, or if the tactile & clicky tactile switches are made with the same tooling the have been made with in the past?

I think these stems have some obvious features that are different from the new one:
New (on the left) has its the non-tactile side much more covered and has only a smaller square shape cut out, compared to the old one (on the right); apart from other things such as the old one has molding ridges on both sides of the stem.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88031.0;attach=162993;image

[keycapper]

More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).

http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml

Have any keyboards been produced with these silent black switches yet?

[Giorgio]

More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).

http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml

Have any keyboards been produced with these silent black switches yet?

g80-3494 should be available in a couple of weeks, you can find it on amazon.com; final price will be lower, about $110

[chyros]

This is apparently true. Hopefully more later.

[Giorgio]

They changed the brown switches too!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/d4461fd1d00d5229a6b18b689839d962.jpg

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88594.0

[Rob27shred]

More pictures of the new mx blacks, side to side with silent switches (gray).

http://wemedia.ifeng.com/10872347/wemedia.shtml

Have any keyboards been produced with these silent black switches yet?

While I haven't de-soldered any switches to 100% confirm I'm pretty sure Leopold is using the "new" blacks. I got a FC600M with Cherry blacks fro mechanicalkeyboards.com almost 2 months ago & the switches are very smooth. I also got a batch from switchtop.com that I did confirm had the new stems which felt identical to the ones in my FC660M.

Although I will say grabbing any KB with Cherry blacks from anywhere right now is most likely a 50/50 crap shoot. There are both old & new blacks in the wild still. This especially holds true with pre-built KBs. To be guaranteed a board has switches with the new stems I would follow Giorgio's advice & wait on the official Cherry boards, or get confirmation from the retailer that a board you're looking at has new stock Cherry switches in it.

[Rob27shred]

They changed the brown switches too!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/d4461fd1d00d5229a6b18b689839d962.jpg

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88594.0

So that confirms they changed the greys as well! I think they did re-tool their whole line up now after seeing the browns you just posted. The greys I got are pretty damn smooth. In fact smooth enough that I do not think it is worth lubing a board's worth of them with krytox after testing one today. Cherry making a comeback )

[SICAR187]

  Does anyone have a 100% confirmation that MK.com and Winkeyless, both stocking/selling this new design?

[romevi]

  Does anyone have a 100% confirmation that MK.com and Winkeyless, both stocking/selling this new design?

I emailed mk.com and they said they don't know.