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Author Topic: about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)  (Read 5420 times)

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Offline wellington1869

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« on: Sun, 22 February 2009, 21:25:33 »
hey guys, ok so circumstances are forcing me to buy a non-clicky board (albeit the best one i can find,  i guess).

any suggestions?

its for work (for first time in a long time I find i'm needing to type a lot at my desk, and the run of the mill dell-mushy aint cutting it).

requirements:

--compact; I'd like to keep it in my bag
--quiet, obviously; but as nice as possible in key action
--spacebar needs to be between X and < keys. (You see, this rules out the ibm m4, for instance). (I need the short (actually, normal-sized, these days) spacebar cuz i use the win keys as hotkeys in autothotkey with my thumbs).
-- Under $50 please... refurbished is fine...

I was leaning towards the ibm space saver II, I guess. I gather thats pretty much the best one for these requirements? Am I overlooking something?  :)
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Offline wellington1869

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 22 February 2009, 21:29:54 »
(does anyone know how the space saver ii compares with the ultranav?)
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Offline puntium

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 01:17:41 »
how about the ms natural elite? I think it fits all your requirements. probably one of the better rubber dome keyboards.

there's also keytronics and maybe the kinesis freestyle, depending on what you're looking for.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #3 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 01:36:55 »
Quote from: puntium;22461
how about the ms natural elite? I think it fits all your requirements. probably one of the better rubber dome keyboards.

there's also keytronics and maybe the kinesis freestyle, depending on what you're looking for.


hmm, thanks for the recs. kinesis freestyle looks really neat, but is over 100 bucks on ebay. Natural elite is too big, i'm looking for something that'll fit in my bag...
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Offline tad

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 02:02:45 »
The Space Saver II will have a longer throw and more resistance than the Ultranav, which is nearly identical to the current Lenovo Thinkpad keyboards (which have scissor-stabilized rubber dome switches). The non-full-size Ultranav is not as wide or thick, but is deeper due to the trackpad. The SSII is ps/2, the Ultranav USB.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #5 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 02:25:17 »
Quote from: tad;22464
The Space Saver II will have a longer throw and more resistance than the Ultranav, which is nearly identical to the current Lenovo Thinkpad keyboards (which have scissor-stabilized rubber dome switches). The non-full-size Ultranav is not as wide or thick, but is deeper due to the trackpad. The SSII is ps/2, the Ultranav USB.


ok, thanks. so basically the space saver is straight rubber dome and ultranav is scissor switch? I think i'd prefer the ultranav then...
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Offline tad

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 06:20:51 »
Basically, go to a place that sells Thinkpads and try out the keyboard. That's what the Ultranav will feel like. For me, newer Thinkpad boards (T*00 and X*00) don't feel as nice as on my 2003-vintage X31; they have a flatter feedback curve and make a "plasticky" noise like on a Macbook.

I don't know if Lenovo has updated the Ultranav board yet; they may be more like the T5* series, which are nice but still not the same as the deep-throw semi-tactile awesomeness that is the X31 board.
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Offline ch_123

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 10:32:14 »
What about an IBM M4-1?
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Offline itlnstln

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 10:39:09 »
How about a Cherry ML4100?  I think it fits the requirements quite nicely and it's still mechanical (for what that's worth).  It's very quiet (almost silent) and a spacesaver*.  The key action is quite nice, and it is very portable; I take mine with me in my laptop bag.

* denotes understatment of the year.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #9 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 10:41:34 »
Quote from: itlnstln;22493
How about a Cherry ML4100?  I think it fits the requirements quite nicely and it's still mechanical (for what that's worth).  It's very quiet (almost silent) and a spacesaver*.  The key action is quite nice, and it is very portable; I take mine with me in my laptop bag.

* denotes understatment of the year.


Oh, and they're dirt cheap.  You might even be able to find a member to send one to you for little more than shipping.  I think bigpook got his for less than $20 shipped.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #10 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 14:37:16 »
well, the m4/mightymouse and the ml4100 would both be ideal except for the one quirk that is unique to me, which is the spacebar and bottom row keys requirement that I have to use my autohotkey hotkeys. (Becuase I use my thumbs on the win/alt keys next to the spacebar, this requires that a) the spacebar isnt too long (generally I say it has to be between the X and < keys, else my thumbs wont reach the keys next to it; and usually this isnt a problem, the modern standard layout does allow me to do that)) and it also requires that the keys next to the spacebar be either win or alt.)

So in the case of mightymouse/m4, on the right side the spacebar exceeds those dimensions. (not by a lot but enough to make my use of my right thumb a bit uncomfortable). And on the ml4100, it has the tilda key next to the spacebar rather than win/alt (again, not fatal but makes it more uncomfortable to reach over the tilda key with my thumb).

So other than that they would have been perfect (and i'm not yet ready to abandon my hard-won "perfect" autohotkey hotkeys if I can help it...

So now I'm leaning towards a spaceasaver II again... it looks like they have the 'buckling rubber sleeve" like the mighty mouse which imav likes so much on the m4/mightymouse. I could live with that I think...  if I cant get one for under 50 (it'll be close) i might just wind up with one of those midnight-grey dells... argh.
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Offline bhtooefr

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 14:46:59 »
I thought the SpaceSaver II was a straight rubber-dome.

But, really, one of the midnight grey Dells isn't a bad board. A former friend of mine actually considered that her favorite keyboard. (She was afraid to try a Model M, though, because she knew she'd like it, and then be ruined for rubber domes. :p)
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #12 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 14:54:07 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;22508
I thought the SpaceSaver II was a straight rubber-dome.

But, really, one of the midnight grey Dells isn't a bad board. A former friend of mine actually considered that her favorite keyboard. (She was afraid to try a Model M, though, because she knew she'd like it, and then be ruined for rubber domes. :p)


well I saw a pic of the internals... hold on, I'll post a link here...
ok, here it is:
http://mineko.fc2web.com/box/kb-room/items/ibm-spacesaverIIkeyboard-jp.html
 
Hmm, is that a dome or a sleeve?! (scroll down to midpage)






and I remember imav once posted a pic of the rubber sleeves in the m4 (i'm trying to locate that pic too)...
ok, here it is: [update: this is actually a pic of a rubber dome model M, not the m4; see Tales post below for a pic of the m4 rubber sleeve]
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=18956&postcount=4





They DO look similar to me, arent they?
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Offline bhtooefr

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 14:59:04 »
That's a dome, but a really good one - it's not one cheap sheet of material, it's discrete domes, which alone is a good sign.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #14 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 15:03:18 »
so would you say the dome on the spacesaver II (green domes in the pics) is similar/same to the m4/mightymouse dome (the clear domes in the pics)? they seem similar enought to me, I imagine the force curves would resemble each other...
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Offline bhtooefr

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 15:06:41 »
Hmm. I suspect the Mighty Mouse might work differently. (When I posted, you hadn't made that edit yet.)

I suspect the key presses in on the center of the mighty mouse "dome," stretching it until it pulls the rest of the dome with it. I don't think that happens on the SpaceSaver II.
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Offline lowpoly

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 15:22:56 »
Quote from: wellington1869;22513
so would you say the dome on the spacesaver II (green domes in the pics) is similar/same to the m4/mightymouse dome (the clear domes in the pics)? they seem similar enought to me, I imagine the force curves would resemble each other...


They can look similar but be very different.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #17 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 15:52:00 »
hmmmm. I'm tempted to try out the spacesaver anyway. At least the throw looks like it would be deeper (based on the height of the domes). I suppose I can always resell it if I dont like it.
I think the m4 maybe be a fallback option. I feel like I kind of know what the m4 will feel like (based on my experience with older thinkpads). I know it will be good but I think i'd like a more traditional keyboard feel (as opposed to laptop feel).

Alright, i'm going to bid on this spacesaver on ebay... if I think it sucks it'll be in gh marketplace in a week, lol :)  It does get rave reviews out there.
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Offline cchan

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 18:40:07 »
that's not the M4, that's a rubber dome Model M's internals. Here's an M4:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crazytales562/3298115093/
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #19 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 18:46:56 »
Quote from: Tales;22536
that's not the M4, that's a rubber dome Model M's internals. Here's an M4:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crazytales562/3298115093/


oh crap, you're right. thanks for pointing that out :)

hmm, based on the flickr pic, they do look quite different! damn...
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Offline cchan

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 18:49:53 »
They are quite different. The M4 doesn't feel like a dome at all, but the spacebar extends way too far toward the right for your tastes. Pity, it's my favourite board now and I want to convert more people to M4ism. (:
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Offline wellington1869

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 18:52:53 »
Here's the m4 "buckling rubber sleeve" pic that imav had put up (i knew it was out there somewhere!). Yes, its almost like an "inverted" dome. I imagine it feels pretty different.



By the way I may convert to M4ism yet, I just have to figure out whether the nice key feel is worth the (admittedly small) inconvenience of occasionally stretching my thumb too far...
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Offline wellington1869

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 23 February 2009, 19:37:56 »
I just read somewhere that the space saver ii is the server rack version of netfinity keyboard. If thats true, hell the netfinity boards sell for half the price on ebay. Might be a cheap way to try it out (and I wouldnt care if someone took it at work, could just leave it there at my desk).
I think we may already have one of those midnight gray dell boards too in teh office, if so I could probably commandeer that one too (since no one else in the office really cares about what keyboard they use).
So I'd have two semi-useful boards. If they're any good I'll post pics of the switch for future reference.  I'd rather have an m4 or a ML cherry but the layout does matter a lot to me.
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Offline lowpoly

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 24 February 2009, 03:10:44 »
The Trackpoint IV keyboard:

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/16019/subcatid/0/id/189771

The rubber domes have a light press and are not mushy at the end (that's the one I took the Trackpoint from).
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #24 on: Tue, 24 February 2009, 03:16:41 »
Quote from: lowpoly;22576
The Trackpoint IV keyboard:

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/16019/subcatid/0/id/189771

The rubber domes have a light press and are not mushy at the end (that's the one I took the Trackpoint from).


is the space saver II the compact version of this?
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Offline lowpoly

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 24 February 2009, 04:07:33 »
The case is different and the Space Saver II has a middle mouse button which the TP IV doesn't have. Maybe the Space Saver II replaced the Trackpoint IV?
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Offline zwmalone

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 24 February 2009, 18:45:22 »
I realize you're not asking to buy members keyboards but I'm going to offer anyway :p
I've got a Datalux Model TORUC 101 key space saver with white MEI linear sliders and full NKRO with a PS/2 connection that I'd sell for $20...  
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Offline FKSSR

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 24 February 2009, 19:09:10 »
The M4 looks a lot like the Unicomp Mighty Mouse, but I'm guessing the domes are not the same.

Has anyone used the Mighty Mouse to compare it to a Spacesaver II or M4?  

I'm just curious.  Thanks.
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #28 on: Tue, 24 February 2009, 19:27:25 »
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Offline FKSSR

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about to buy a non-clicky board (*ducks*)
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 25 February 2009, 15:01:50 »
Dang.  I should have done a better search.  Sorry about that, but thanks! :)
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