Author Topic: Leopold FC660C  (Read 312584 times)

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Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #250 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 17:09:00 »
Please do :D I'll look forward to hearing back from you. You will definitely notice the difference in weight between the two, there's no doubt. I can feel it, it's not just my imagination :)) I just wanted to see if everyone else had the same issue (I wouldn't necessarily see it as a problem because it's just the arrow cluster, and I kind of like it).

Alright, pulled out the board, and you're definitely right, the arrow cluster is weighted differently. It's especially noticeable with my pinky, which i'm just now starting to use for that.

You could also measure the actuation force using stacks of nickels.

Because I was curious I went ahead and tried it:

Arrows: 9-11 nickels to bottom out so ~45g-55g
Others: 12-13 nickels to bottom out so ~60g-65g

Now that method seems highly error prone since you're talking +/- 12% with 5g weights and the key profiles make this a little tough enough that i had to adjust the board pitch to keep the force perpendicular to the key top. In the end tough it was consistently lighter on items in the same row so that makes me feel a little better.

For anyone curious my QFR with browns was consistently at 11 nickels or ~55g, and my Das with blues was consistently at 13 nickels or ~65g so at least how i was performing it passes the smell test.

The RealForce 87U EK edition just came and I have the FC660C in front of me as well.  (1) I agree that the FC660C keys are lighter than the other keys on the FC660C.  (2) The arrow keys on the FC660C definitely feel a lot like the keys on the 87U-EK. 

For you (1), I think you meant that the arrow keys are lighter than the other keys on the FC660C :P

Oh man... I was actually looking at that EK edition... The weight on my RF 23UB I have now, I would say, is in between the weight of the stiffer alpha switches of the 660C and the super light arrow cluster on the 660C. Man... I really want to try a full RF keyboard with 45g to compare and then try the variable weights to compare the 35g on there with the arrow cluster on my 660C! I wish I could score a variable weight RF for about $160 shipped... I would pay it right on the spot.

Offline s0ckpupp3t

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #251 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 17:42:03 »

For you (1), I think you meant that the arrow keys are lighter than the other keys on the FC660C :P

Oh man... I was actually looking at that EK edition... The weight on my RF 23UB I have now, I would say, is in between the weight of the stiffer alpha switches of the 660C and the super light arrow cluster on the 660C. Man... I really want to try a full RF keyboard with 45g to compare and then try the variable weights to compare the 35g on there with the arrow cluster on my 660C! I wish I could score a variable weight RF for about $160 shipped... I would pay it right on the spot.

Ok (1) corrected in my original post.

I went back to revisit the keys between the FC660C and the 87U-EK.  The keys on the 87U-EK are lighter than the alpha keys on the FC660C but a little heavier than the FC660C arrow keys.  However, I wouldn't categorize the arrow keys on the FC660C as being super light vs. the alpha keys.

Please don't make me balance nickels on the keys... I'm in the office and people will be able to see me.   :-[

On thing off the bat that I'm having a hard time getting used to is the broad forehead on the 87U.  Why so big? All that wasted space!  It makes me really appreciate the compact form factor of the FC660C.

Windows keys with the shiny domes on the 87U are also kind of bugging me.  Anyone want to sell me 2 blank dark grey Topre keycaps?  Do they even exist?  :rolleyes:

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #252 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 17:50:56 »

For you (1), I think you meant that the arrow keys are lighter than the other keys on the FC660C :P

Oh man... I was actually looking at that EK edition... The weight on my RF 23UB I have now, I would say, is in between the weight of the stiffer alpha switches of the 660C and the super light arrow cluster on the 660C. Man... I really want to try a full RF keyboard with 45g to compare and then try the variable weights to compare the 35g on there with the arrow cluster on my 660C! I wish I could score a variable weight RF for about $160 shipped... I would pay it right on the spot.

Ok (1) corrected in my original post.

I went back to revisit the keys between the FC660C and the 87U-EK.  The keys on the 87U-EK are lighter than the alpha keys on the FC660C but a little heavier than the FC660C arrow keys.  However, I wouldn't categorize the arrow keys on the FC660C as being super light vs. the alpha keys.

Please don't make me balance nickels on the keys... I'm in the office and people will be able to see me.   :-[

On thing off the bat that I'm having a hard time getting used to is the broad forehead on the 87U.  Why so big? All that wasted space!  It makes me really appreciate the compact form factor of the FC660C.

Windows keys with the shiny domes on the 87U are also kind of bugging me.  Anyone want to sell me 2 blank dark grey Topre keycaps?  Do they even exist?  :rolleyes:


I find the arrow keys on my 660C to be significantly lighter than the alphas on my 660C and only slightly less lighter than on the RF 23UB. Hmmmm~ I actually like the super light Topre feel on my arrow cluster :S

I have seen many complain about the RF's large bezel on top, and I can see where they're coming from. I, on the other hand, like how it looks :P Kind of gives it that classic look while still being chic at the same time with the smooth curves.

Good luck finding blank Topre keys that people will just readily sell you. If you do, expect to pay a lot, and if you get a good price, LUCKY! I agree though, I don't see why they didn't just print their Windows keys instead of that retarded dome... I don't see why any company uses those domes...

Offline AuRinBei

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #253 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 14:48:26 »
 My arrow cluster is a tiny bit lighter than the lighter side of my keyboard on the whole, but not ridiculously so. There are alpha keys that are lighter. I don’t think this is by design. I think that Leopold or their manufacturer or whoever got a crapload of left alpha sheets, right alpha sheets, and miscellaneous single domes (pretty much all of the non-alpha keys in the FC660C are unconnected domes next to each other) from Topre, and it just so happened that the misc domes were lighter on average then the alpha domes, and the alpha domes just so happened to be heavier than the average batch used by Realforce. To be honest, I’m kind of pissed off about this. I don’t understand how it’s so hard to make sure the weights are at most 5g different from each other, even if it’s just on a board by board basis. I mean, where exactly is the money going if not excellent QC? I don’t see how I can pay almost $200 for a “Uniform 45g keyboard” and get a keyboard where most of the switches are well above 50g, with a 55g sitting next to a 40g.
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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #254 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 16:11:32 »
I've solved my issues with the Leopold FC660C by buying a HHKB Pro 2. I kept seeing rave reviews and not quite believing that they could pertain to me. I was skeptical about the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys. However, now that I've actually tried it, I found that I adjusted to the layout and Fn-layer arrow keys within the first day, and it now appears that this masterpiece of minimalism is going to be my daily driver.

About the only thing I would have them change about the HHKB Pro 2 is the switch weight. I would like to see a 55-gram option, but the 45-gram switches seem fine. I have not yet tested their uniformity and how this compares to my FC660C, but overall I now prefer the HHKB Pro 2 to the Leopold.

Offline SNF

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #255 on: Tue, 08 October 2013, 00:02:01 »
I've solved my issues with the Leopold FC660C by buying a HHKB Pro 2. I kept seeing rave reviews and not quite believing that they could pertain to me. I was skeptical about the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys. However, now that I've actually tried it, I found that I adjusted to the layout and Fn-layer arrow keys within the first day, and it now appears that this masterpiece of minimalism is going to be my daily driver.

About the only thing I would have them change about the HHKB Pro 2 is the switch weight. I would like to see a 55-gram option, but the 45-gram switches seem fine. I have not yet tested their uniformity and how this compares to my FC660C, but overall I now prefer the HHKB Pro 2 to the Leopold.

I agree, when I had both keyboards I really favored the HHKB2 more.

It felt better overall for typing, the keys felt bouncier and landing was softer.

The FC660 is still a solid board too.

The keys felt smoother and faster.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #256 on: Tue, 08 October 2013, 01:07:06 »
I've solved my issues with the Leopold FC660C by buying a HHKB Pro 2. I kept seeing rave reviews and not quite believing that they could pertain to me. I was skeptical about the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys. However, now that I've actually tried it, I found that I adjusted to the layout and Fn-layer arrow keys within the first day, and it now appears that this masterpiece of minimalism is going to be my daily driver.

About the only thing I would have them change about the HHKB Pro 2 is the switch weight. I would like to see a 55-gram option, but the 45-gram switches seem fine. I have not yet tested their uniformity and how this compares to my FC660C, but overall I now prefer the HHKB Pro 2 to the Leopold.

I agree, when I had both keyboards I really favored the HHKB2 more.

It felt better overall for typing, the keys felt bouncier and landing was softer.

The FC660 is still a solid board too.

The keys felt smoother and faster.

I'd still like to try an orange keyboard - the one thing I miss on my HHKB is the arrow keys, which FC660C has.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #257 on: Tue, 08 October 2013, 08:55:57 »
I've solved my issues with the Leopold FC660C by buying a HHKB Pro 2. I kept seeing rave reviews and not quite believing that they could pertain to me. I was skeptical about the layout and absence of dedicated arrow keys. However, now that I've actually tried it, I found that I adjusted to the layout and Fn-layer arrow keys within the first day, and it now appears that this masterpiece of minimalism is going to be my daily driver.

About the only thing I would have them change about the HHKB Pro 2 is the switch weight. I would like to see a 55-gram option, but the 45-gram switches seem fine. I have not yet tested their uniformity and how this compares to my FC660C, but overall I now prefer the HHKB Pro 2 to the Leopold.

I agree, when I had both keyboards I really favored the HHKB2 more.

It felt better overall for typing, the keys felt bouncier and landing was softer.

The FC660 is still a solid board too.

The keys felt smoother and faster.

I'd still like to try an orange keyboard - the one thing I miss on my HHKB is the arrow keys, which FC660C has.

I'm not missing the arrow keys with the HHKB Pro 2 as I thought I would, and compared to the FC660C, I prefer the form factor, layout, and appearance of the HHKB Pro 2. Although I have found the default cursor diamond on the HHKB Pro 2 sufficient for my needs, I have discovered a wealth of alternative keyboard shortcuts. These shortcuts are very easy to implement for Mac users through the excellent software, KeyReMap4MacBook.

Offline MTManiac

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #258 on: Tue, 08 October 2013, 09:34:09 »
patiently awaiting amazon shipping to try out the FC660C
hopefully the switches aren't all wacky, but I don't mind doing a nickel test on all the keys to see what's up

Offline Sniping

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #259 on: Tue, 08 October 2013, 19:24:11 »
You probably just shouldn't test it-I can't notice that it's not uniform, and if you can't either, why force yourself to believe that it is non-uniform with the nickel test?
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:38:55 by Sniping »

Offline Belfong

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #260 on: Sun, 13 October 2013, 06:36:12 »
Hi OP, my sister is going Korea next week. I may asked her to look for Leopold for me. Do you have any idea where your friend got it from? I wonder how common it is. You also said there was promotion. I don't think that's available but who knows. Appreciate!
 

Offline Aliwia

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #261 on: Sun, 13 October 2013, 16:42:19 »
Is the spacebar ABS or PBT?

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #262 on: Sun, 13 October 2013, 16:50:14 »
Is the spacebar ABS or PBT?

ABS. I believe most Topre boards have an ABS spacebar.

Offline Aliwia

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #263 on: Sun, 13 October 2013, 17:01:18 »
Sad to hear, couldnt live without my PBT spacebar on the Keycool 87 grey pbt

Offline zoolzoo

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #264 on: Wed, 30 October 2013, 12:10:55 »
Any word on replacement caps from Leopold or otherwise? Love the board but the caps.....legends are wearing already.
Leopold FC660C, Topre 45g | CM QFR, MX Blue | Rosewill RK-9000v2, MX Red | Cherry Slimline G84-4100, ML | Ducky One2 Mini RGB, MX Red

Offline kenmai9

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #265 on: Wed, 30 October 2013, 12:19:00 »
Any word on replacement caps from Leopold or otherwise? Love the board but the caps.....legends are wearing already.

I emailed EK and this is what they sent me.

Hi kenmai9,

I believe Leopold is working on offering these, but they are not available yet. Please join our newsletter.

Best regards,
Brian

Offline rowdy

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #266 on: Wed, 30 October 2013, 23:44:45 »
Any word on replacement caps from Leopold or otherwise? Love the board but the caps.....legends are wearing already.

I emailed EK and this is what they sent me.

Hi kenmai9,

I believe Leopold is working on offering these, but they are not available yet. Please join our newsletter.

Best regards,
Brian

With the popularity of the FC660C, you'd think that replacement keycaps were almost inevitable!

But we are still waiting for replacement coloured sets for HHKB.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline Netbootz

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #267 on: Mon, 11 November 2013, 15:12:59 »
Yeah, just noticed my caps are getting a tad shinier and it's been used moderately over a couple months.

Offline keymaster

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #268 on: Mon, 11 November 2013, 16:58:24 »
For me, one of the main turn-offs of the FC660 is the fact the keycaps are laser-etched. I'm okay with non-standard space bar stems as long as they provide high-quality dye-sublimated PBT keycaps.

Offline zoolzoo

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #269 on: Mon, 11 November 2013, 17:18:15 »
For me, one of the main turn-offs of the FC660 is the fact the keycaps are laser-etched. I'm okay with non-standard space bar stems as long as they provide high-quality dye-sublimated PBT keycaps.

Yea, I use mine all day at work and the legends are already starting to wear off. Its a shame because I love the gold on black. Still a great board though.
Leopold FC660C, Topre 45g | CM QFR, MX Blue | Rosewill RK-9000v2, MX Red | Cherry Slimline G84-4100, ML | Ducky One2 Mini RGB, MX Red

Offline AuRinBei

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #270 on: Mon, 11 November 2013, 21:46:17 »
For me, one of the main turn-offs of the FC660 is the fact the keycaps are laser-etched. I'm okay with non-standard space bar stems as long as they provide high-quality dye-sublimated PBT keycaps.

They are actually pad printed, despite what EK says.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #271 on: Mon, 11 November 2013, 22:48:40 »
For me, one of the main turn-offs of the FC660 is the fact the keycaps are laser-etched. I'm okay with non-standard space bar stems as long as they provide high-quality dye-sublimated PBT keycaps.

They are actually pad printed, despite what EK says.

Yet another reason for Leopold (or someone) to create a replacement keycap set.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline zoolzoo

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #272 on: Tue, 12 November 2013, 08:43:07 »
For me, one of the main turn-offs of the FC660 is the fact the keycaps are laser-etched. I'm okay with non-standard space bar stems as long as they provide high-quality dye-sublimated PBT keycaps.

They are actually pad printed, despite what EK says.

I think this is true. I can practically scratch off the rest of the legend on my most worn key.
Leopold FC660C, Topre 45g | CM QFR, MX Blue | Rosewill RK-9000v2, MX Red | Cherry Slimline G84-4100, ML | Ducky One2 Mini RGB, MX Red

Offline baotung

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #273 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 03:26:28 »
Great review! Can't believe it's so affordable too.

Offline thoere

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #274 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 14:14:54 »
I'm looking to get one of these as my first Topre, is it a good choice?

Offline rowdy

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #275 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 17:16:47 »
I'm looking to get one of these as my first Topre, is it a good choice?

Yes.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Travellerr

  • Posts: 97
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #276 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 13:11:07 »
Okay so, I am newer to the geekhack community and so far I really love what a lot members have done as far reviews, threads, and even things such as showing how to modify your mechanical keyboard as well. I really like the way the Leopold 660 design is laid out, and have been contemplating buying one for a while, but only in a cherry mx mechanical key switch, and now I have started watching reviews, reading blogs and threads, and researching the topre switch mechanical keyboards which many experienced mechanical keyboard owners and users stand by as being one of the best when it comes to mechanical keyboards. I just want to know if you guys were to compare the mx cherry mechanical keyboard to the leopold 660c or happy hacking is it that much of a different typing experience. Also, does it justify the extra 50 dollars I am about to spend this christmas purchasing the topre version of the leopold? Because from what I have read it seems to be an awesome experience, but no one in the community ever seems to write me back save a few decent enough people who want me to stick around. I really would like to learn about mechanical keyboards more than I have and would appreciate some feedback. Because I was up between the leopold fc660m(clear switches or browns), the poker 2 or pure pro(with browns, and because of the customizability of the keycaps you can purchase) and the leopold fc660c(seems like a really nice keyboard and typing experience, is this switch suitable for playing games of most kinds with?) these are the few compact boards I have been looking at I already own a blue switch keyboard, and the browns switch xt I am lending to my girlfriend so if anyone could give me an idea of if the leopold fc660c with topre switches is worth it in terms of price and switching switches..lol....please write me back, thanks and happy holidays
Leopold FC660C- Realforce 87u 55g- QFR mx Blues

Offline ComradeSniper

  • HHKB Pro
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1086
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #277 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 14:23:24 »
Okay so, I am newer to the geekhack community and so far I really love what a lot members have done as far reviews, threads, and even things such as showing how to modify your mechanical keyboard as well. I really like the way the Leopold 660 design is laid out, and have been contemplating buying one for a while, but only in a cherry mx mechanical key switch, and now I have started watching reviews, reading blogs and threads, and researching the topre switch mechanical keyboards which many experienced mechanical keyboard owners and users stand by as being one of the best when it comes to mechanical keyboards. I just want to know if you guys were to compare the mx cherry mechanical keyboard to the leopold 660c or happy hacking is it that much of a different typing experience. Also, does it justify the extra 50 dollars I am about to spend this christmas purchasing the topre version of the leopold? Because from what I have read it seems to be an awesome experience, but no one in the community ever seems to write me back save a few decent enough people who want me to stick around. I really would like to learn about mechanical keyboards more than I have and would appreciate some feedback. Because I was up between the leopold fc660m(clear switches or browns), the poker 2 or pure pro(with browns, and because of the customizability of the keycaps you can purchase) and the leopold fc660c(seems like a really nice keyboard and typing experience, is this switch suitable for playing games of most kinds with?) these are the few compact boards I have been looking at I already own a blue switch keyboard, and the browns switch xt I am lending to my girlfriend so if anyone could give me an idea of if the leopold fc660c with topre switches is worth it in terms of price and switching switches..lol....please write me back, thanks and happy holidays

Topre feels totally different from MX. I think it's worth the extra money, but plenty of people don't like Topre at all, so it's something you'll have to decide for yourself. The only "problem" with Topre is that your keycap customization options are incredibly narrow.

It's fine for gaming, I personally prefer gaming on a linear switch, but if you're gaming on blues right now than you'll be fine with Topre.

Offline zoolzoo

  • Posts: 642
  • Location: NYS
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #278 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 14:52:16 »
Okay so, I am newer to the geekhack community and so far I really love what a lot members have done as far reviews, threads, and even things such as showing how to modify your mechanical keyboard as well. I really like the way the Leopold 660 design is laid out, and have been contemplating buying one for a while, but only in a cherry mx mechanical key switch, and now I have started watching reviews, reading blogs and threads, and researching the topre switch mechanical keyboards which many experienced mechanical keyboard owners and users stand by as being one of the best when it comes to mechanical keyboards. I just want to know if you guys were to compare the mx cherry mechanical keyboard to the leopold 660c or happy hacking is it that much of a different typing experience. Also, does it justify the extra 50 dollars I am about to spend this christmas purchasing the topre version of the leopold? Because from what I have read it seems to be an awesome experience, but no one in the community ever seems to write me back save a few decent enough people who want me to stick around. I really would like to learn about mechanical keyboards more than I have and would appreciate some feedback. Because I was up between the leopold fc660m(clear switches or browns), the poker 2 or pure pro(with browns, and because of the customizability of the keycaps you can purchase) and the leopold fc660c(seems like a really nice keyboard and typing experience, is this switch suitable for playing games of most kinds with?) these are the few compact boards I have been looking at I already own a blue switch keyboard, and the browns switch xt I am lending to my girlfriend so if anyone could give me an idea of if the leopold fc660c with topre switches is worth it in terms of price and switching switches..lol....please write me back, thanks and happy holidays

The tactile aspect of a topre switch... imagine the rubber cup collapsing all at once when enough pressure is applied, the switch lands with a nice "thock" instead of a "clack" (in contrast with mx). In practice it feels refined; and although rubber is used in the mechanism I think the difference between a regular "rubber dome" keyboard is night and day. Though, your cherry mx board will feel further apart from a rubber dome board than a topre will. The 660C is sturdy and heavy, I think you will like it.
Leopold FC660C, Topre 45g | CM QFR, MX Blue | Rosewill RK-9000v2, MX Red | Cherry Slimline G84-4100, ML | Ducky One2 Mini RGB, MX Red

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #279 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 18:11:23 »
people really need to focus less on the 'thock' sound and more on the 'thock' feel.  It is the feeling of bottoming out that really makes topre stand out.

bottom out on:

membrane - plastic against plastic
mx - plastic against metal/plastic
topre - plastic against rubber

both membrane and mx bottom out on something very solid and hard.  that gives the feeling of all your keystroke force being bounced back up against your finger; the topre rubber completely absorbs this downward force.  This is the absolutely biggest difference between topre and other switches; all the other pro-topre arguments are rather make-believe in comparison.

NOTE:

this is the reason I hate MX reds and loves mx clicky switches; on mx linears, there is NOTHING stopping you from bottoming out and feeling the bounce-back.  With topre though, tactility is rather pathetic (yes it is), but it's actually not important in getting a pleasant typing experience.
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline tobr1an

  • Posts: 137
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #280 on: Wed, 04 December 2013, 19:47:44 »
660C vs Realforce 87 vs HHKB? Which 1 should I try to pick up?

Offline VesperSAINT

  • vpsert
  • Posts: 5588
  • Location: Tampa, Flouda
  • #CustomKorean
    • My Youtube channel with some keyboard videos
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #281 on: Wed, 04 December 2013, 20:05:08 »
660C vs Realforce 87 vs HHKB? Which 1 should I try to pick up?

My 2 cents ~ If you're wanting to get only a 45g:

- 660C if you want something that feels poppy, soft, and full-on cloudofboobs. Best feel 45g, IMO. Dedicated arrow cluster.

- HHKB if you want max THOCK, plastic-feel/casemount-feel (this is not a bad thing, and it is greatly fun). Best looking. 60% layout.

- RealForce 87 if you want TKl layout. Probably the worst feeling 45g Topre out of them all.



If you want Thorpe God Feels, Realforce 55g ;)
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 December 2013, 20:08:02 by VesperSAINT »

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #282 on: Thu, 05 December 2013, 03:20:59 »
^ Similar, but:

Conventional TKL layout = RealForce
Arrow keys = FC660C
Unix/Linux = HHKB
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #283 on: Thu, 05 December 2013, 16:37:54 »
people really need to focus less on the 'thock' sound and more on the 'thock' feel.  It is the feeling of bottoming out that really makes topre stand out.

bottom out on:

membrane - plastic against plastic
mx - plastic against metal/plastic
topre - plastic against rubber

both membrane and mx bottom out on something very solid and hard.  that gives the feeling of all your keystroke force being bounced back up against your finger; the topre rubber completely absorbs this downward force.  This is the absolutely biggest difference between topre and other switches; all the other pro-topre arguments are rather make-believe in comparison.

NOTE:

this is the reason I hate MX reds and loves mx clicky switches; on mx linears, there is NOTHING stopping you from bottoming out and feeling the bounce-back.  With topre though, tactility is rather pathetic (yes it is), but it's actually not important in getting a pleasant typing experience.

People place way too much concern on bottoming out, when you aren't supposed to do it either. Personally I'd rather hit something solid like a plate rather than something squishy like a Topre rubber dome. Literally the only good thing about Topre versus any other board is its sound.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline ioXt_2

  • Posts: 35
  • Location: Montreal, Canada
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #284 on: Fri, 06 December 2013, 09:53:02 »
The more I see, the more I like this KB.

Thanks for the review!

Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #285 on: Fri, 06 December 2013, 12:55:54 »
Just thought I'd pop in and ask if anybody has heard anything new regarding replacement caps.
87u || Poker 2

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #286 on: Fri, 06 December 2013, 17:59:54 »
Just thought I'd pop in and ask if anybody has heard anything new regarding replacement caps.

I have heard nothing new (FWIW).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline C5Allroad

  • Formerly HUNTERANGEL121
  • Posts: 1235
  • Location: Miami, FL
  • Watch out, I post when half asleep.
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #287 on: Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:31:10 »
I bet no one noticed that he has a bottle of Aveeno lotion.  :p

Offline Pacifist

  • Report me *again* if there are gifs in my sig
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  • Posts: 3599
  • Location: Cali
  • on hiatus
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #288 on: Thu, 12 December 2013, 17:50:58 »
I bet no one noticed that he has a bottle of Aveeno lotion.  :p

what's wrong with aveeno?

Offline fourzeropooh

  • Posts: 210
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #289 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 15:35:06 »
Good review! :thumb:

I must get one of these soon  :))

Offline daerid

  • Posts: 4276
  • Location: Denver, CO
    • Rossipedia
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #290 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 11:28:33 »
People place way too much concern on bottoming out, when you aren't supposed to do it either. Personally I'd rather hit something solid like a plate rather than something squishy like a Topre rubber dome. Literally the only good thing about Topre versus any other board is its sound.

The sound is nice, yes, but it is much, much, much less important than the feel when it comes to Topre. And bottoming-out is definitely relevant to the discussion around Topre, as due to how they're designed it's virtually impossible to avoid. I'm curious if you've actually tried a Topre board? Not trying to be snarky, just curious.

Yes, you may be "supposed" to avoid bottoming out, but that's mainly on Cherry boards, and even still purely subjective.


Offline spuriousgeorge

  • Posts: 90
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #291 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 12:47:31 »
Do you ever find yourself mistyping due to the abbreviated right shift key on the Leopold and on the HHKB? I know it's basically full size, but it isn't quite, and I imagine I would end up overshooting it now and then.

Thanks for the great review!

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #292 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 13:54:13 »
Do you ever find yourself mistyping due to the abbreviated right shift key on the Leopold and on the HHKB? I know it's basically full size, but it isn't quite, and I imagine I would end up overshooting it now and then.

Thanks for the great review!

Typing at over 150, never had an issue. It's more than wide enough.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline spuriousgeorge

  • Posts: 90
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #293 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:29:16 »
Man, you crazy 150-plus typists! You're the people I'm always getting crushed by on typeracer!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #294 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:43:34 »
Man, you crazy 150-plus typists! You're the people I'm always getting crushed by on typeracer!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 ;)
Practice for a year daily, you'll get to it without a problem.
(of course, you have to learn Dvorak first!)
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline demik

  • Pronounced "demique"
  • Posts: 11159
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #295 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:59:22 »
Man, you crazy 150-plus typists! You're the people I'm always getting crushed by on typeracer!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

On the bright side, you aren't winning online typing races!
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline spuriousgeorge

  • Posts: 90
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #296 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:18:53 »
LOL. That's a silver lining I hadn't considered.  ;D

Offline spuriousgeorge

  • Posts: 90
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #297 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:23:30 »
Thanks for the encouragement, Linkbane!

Of course, by the time I'm up to 150, you'll probably be at something completely otherworldly like 225.


Offline spuriousgeorge

  • Posts: 90
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #298 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:45:03 »
P.S. Did you find any site or service particularly helpful when learning Dvorak?

Offline Linkbane

  • Posts: 1534
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #299 on: Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:50:49 »
P.S. Did you find any site or service particularly helpful when learning Dvorak?

I used this source to start, then used Stamina 3.0 a lot for practice with all sorts of words and sentences, and now I mostly use 10FF. And if I could get to 170 in that time, I'd be happy heh.
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.