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Author Topic: [Oddforge] VE.A  (Read 237383 times)

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Offline jal

  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Bay Area, US
  • I can't believe it's not gravy!
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #100 on: Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:09:11 »
Quote from: roostrc0gburn on Wed, 10 August 2016, 16:25:55
any update on this yet?

Which "this"? If you mean delivery, there was a notification email from MD on 2016.07.21 indicating that some plates were scratched and being redone, so there would be a delay.
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Offline shangrila500

  • Posts: 70
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #101 on: Wed, 10 August 2016, 22:11:37 »
Quote from: Data on Fri, 29 July 2016, 09:50:19
If you use the individual lock indicator LEDs in the upper left corner of the board then you do NOT need to jumper for "lock-type" on the in-switch LEDs unless you want both for some strange reason.

In-switch LOCK behavior has the LED normally off and it only turns on when the indicated lock type is engaged.  So for Caps Lock the LED sits off until you engage Caps Lock, at which time the LED turns on -- this is how any normal in-switch lock indicator works.  Why would someone want this?  Mainly if they have WINDOWED key caps for the lock keys.

Gotcha, that explained it perfectly! Thank you very much!
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Offline zefyr

  • Thread Starter
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  • Oddforge
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #102 on: Thu, 18 August 2016, 00:34:37 »
Quote from: jal on Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:09:11
Quote from: roostrc0gburn on Wed, 10 August 2016, 16:25:55
any update on this yet?

Which "this"? If you mean delivery, there was a notification email from MD on 2016.07.21 indicating that some plates were scratched and being redone, so there would be a delay.

We got final sample few days ago.
Quality check passed, we are producing batches and expecting 2 weeks for check and packaging :)
Thanks for long waiting.
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ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline krisst

  • Posts: 134
  • Location: Little Red Dot
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #103 on: Thu, 18 August 2016, 05:54:03 »
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 18 August 2016, 00:34:37
We got final sample few days ago.
Quality check passed, we are producing batches and expecting 2 weeks for check and packaging :)
Thanks for long waiting.

Thank you for the update! Do post more pictures of progress if possible. :D
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Offline jal

  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Bay Area, US
  • I can't believe it's not gravy!
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #104 on: Thu, 18 August 2016, 08:44:29 »
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 18 August 2016, 00:34:37
We got final sample few days ago.
Quality check passed, we are producing batches and expecting 2 weeks for check and packaging :)
Thanks for long waiting.

Woo hoo! Nondenominational Holiday Gift-Giving Event is getting closer.
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Offline Data

  • Posts: 2608
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #105 on: Thu, 18 August 2016, 09:16:02 »
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 18 August 2016, 00:34:37
Quote from: jal on Wed, 10 August 2016, 20:09:11
Quote from: roostrc0gburn on Wed, 10 August 2016, 16:25:55
any update on this yet?

Which "this"? If you mean delivery, there was a notification email from MD on 2016.07.21 indicating that some plates were scratched and being redone, so there would be a delay.

We got final sample few days ago.
Quality check passed, we are producing batches and expecting 2 weeks for check and packaging :)
Thanks for long waiting.

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Offline alienman82

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4051
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #106 on: Thu, 18 August 2016, 14:21:42 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:17:10 by alienman82 »
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Offline zefyr

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 330
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Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #107 on: Thu, 18 August 2016, 23:55:52 »
Quote from: krisst on Thu, 18 August 2016, 05:54:03
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 18 August 2016, 00:34:37
We got final sample few days ago.
Quality check passed, we are producing batches and expecting 2 weeks for check and packaging :)
Thanks for long waiting.

Thank you for the update! Do post more pictures of progress if possible. :D

Picture of last night :)


This is first batch of black cases
Picture taken after quality check :)
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 August 2016, 00:35:34 by zefyr »
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ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline HouseofSuffering

  • Posts: 199
  • Location: California
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #108 on: Fri, 19 August 2016, 01:03:44 »
Awesome work guys! Thanks!   :thumb:
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Offline Delirious

  • Posts: 322
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #109 on: Fri, 26 August 2016, 13:33:27 »
Zephyr how is it going with the Alps plate? I can't wait to get my hands on this baby.
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Offline alienman82

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Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #110 on: Sun, 28 August 2016, 11:54:11 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:14:51 by alienman82 »
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Offline dead_pixel_design

  • Posts: 623
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Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 29 August 2016, 14:44:22 »
I wasn't a part of the community when this was on Mass Drop and am SO sad I missed this. When I was just getting into mechanical keyboards (very recently) I saw a picture of a gold one of these and it was one of the pictures that really made me decide to get into this community and into mechanial keyboards, I lost track of it through my first little bit of getting familiar and learning about stuff but just came across this and remembered that picture and why this keyboard sparked so much interest for me. Really hope to see more of this design in the future so that I can finally get my hands on one. Couldn't love this design more and love having more information about it now that I know a little bit more about keyboards!!
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Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #112 on: Mon, 29 August 2016, 15:43:57 »
Quote from: alienman82 on Sun, 28 August 2016, 11:54:11
since I have two I might want an alps plate too but maybe not.  alps are just ok ^_^


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Put up or shut up. ^__^

 :-*
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Offline alienman82

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Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #113 on: Mon, 29 August 2016, 15:55:00 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:14:27 by alienman82 »
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Offline zefyr

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 330
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Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #114 on: Thu, 01 September 2016, 00:17:19 »
All set, Finally.
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ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline alienman82

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Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #115 on: Thu, 01 September 2016, 09:14:46 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:13:51 by alienman82 »
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Offline dead_pixel_design

  • Posts: 623
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • IIIV is not a Roman Numeral. Positive Vibes.
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #116 on: Thu, 01 September 2016, 11:13:38 »
^^^ This. But when, not what. Because VE.A


Also the comment below this, if there will be any for sale please let us know. I didn't realize that MassDrop aparently doesn't give a window to correct payments? Is that the case?
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 September 2016, 12:29:38 by dead_pixel_design »
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Offline rcordeau

  • Posts: 2
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #117 on: Thu, 01 September 2016, 11:57:44 »
Hi,
Any update as to if you'll have any extras to sell outside of Massdrop? My Massdrop credit card debacle made me miss the drop.

Thanks,
Rob
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Offline zefyr

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Republic of Korea
  • Oddforge
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #118 on: Fri, 02 September 2016, 00:37:22 »
Quote from: alienman82 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 09:14:46
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 01 September 2016, 00:17:19
All set, Finally.

What is the next GB going to be  :p

WOW, you just saying that.
You know? After one GB ends, we always thinks
"Never again"
It's like hangover. man.
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ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline MajorKoos

  • Posts: 851
  • Location: Bay Area
  • 1 life please. Extra large.
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #119 on: Fri, 02 September 2016, 07:16:11 »
Quote from: zefyr on Fri, 02 September 2016, 00:37:22
Quote from: alienman82 on Thu, 01 September 2016, 09:14:46
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 01 September 2016, 00:17:19
All set, Finally.

What is the next GB going to be  :p

WOW, you just saying that.
You know? After one GB ends, we always thinks
"Never again"
It's like hangover. man.

Lol!
You've definitely been put through your paces on this GB.
The issue with the scratches must have been a real headache, but you got in front of it really well.
Kudos for putting this together and I hope the hangover wears off soon :)
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Offline jal

  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Bay Area, US
  • I can't believe it's not gravy!
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #120 on: Tue, 06 September 2016, 19:29:31 »
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 01 September 2016, 00:17:19
All set, Finally.

Just back from vacation so just seeing this. But I just wanted to say thank you for making this happen. It is really quite an accomplishment.
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Offline zefyr

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Republic of Korea
  • Oddforge
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #121 on: Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:57:03 »
Announcement from oddforge

Howdy Geeks.
We shipped out all of your orders.
It's heading for Massdrop warehouse NJ.
Thanks for your support everyone.
ZeF out, I mean it.
I need some rest.

Oh, one another matter.
We got tens of leftovers.
Some of you are asking when, how to get, etc. It's not hard to reply but I don't want to reply same answer repeatedly.
Here's deal.
It will be sold on our website after Massdrop's individual shipping ends.
It's for aftercare, so we have to keep it for certain period.
You can ask reservation to me, but it's really limited, so I cannot guarantee your reservation.
We don't have any energy left to reproduce another batch.
EXHAUSTED literally, We gotta kill some demons at "Sanctuary".
Feel free to ask anything except reservation of leftovers. :)
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ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline exitfire401

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 2969
  • Location: United States
  • The Force is Re/\l
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #122 on: Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:59:51 »
Quote from: zefyr on Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:57:03
Announcement from oddforge

Howdy Geeks.
We shipped out all of your orders.
It's heading for Massdrop warehouse NJ.
Thanks for your support everyone.
ZeF out, I mean it.
I need some rest.

Oh, one another matter.
We got tens of leftovers.
Some of you are asking when, how to get, etc. It's not hard to reply but I don't want to reply same answer repeatedly.
Here's deal.
It will be sold on our website after Massdrop's individual shipping ends.
It's for aftercare, so we have to keep it for certain period.
You can ask reservation to me, but it's really limited, so I cannot guarantee your reservation.
We don't have any energy left to reproduce another batch.
EXHAUSTED literally, We gotta kill some demons at "Sanctuary".
Feel free to ask anything except reservation of leftovers. :)

Hey, you made it! Glad to see everything got along. I still can't wait for mine. Get some much needed rest! Can't wait to see what you'll come up with next!
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B/S/T thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55351.0

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Offline trizkut

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1207
  • Location: MA
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #123 on: Thu, 08 September 2016, 00:00:22 »
Quote from: zefyr on Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:57:03
Announcement from oddforge

Howdy Geeks.
We shipped out all of your orders.
It's heading for Massdrop warehouse NJ.
Thanks for your support everyone.
ZeF out, I mean it.
I need some rest.

Oh, one another matter.
We got tens of leftovers.
Some of you are asking when, how to get, etc. It's not hard to reply but I don't want to reply same answer repeatedly.
Here's deal.
It will be sold on our website after Massdrop's individual shipping ends.
It's for aftercare, so we have to keep it for certain period.
You can ask reservation to me, but it's really limited, so I cannot guarantee your reservation.
We don't have any energy left to reproduce another batch.
EXHAUSTED literally, We gotta kill some demons at "Sanctuary".
Feel free to ask anything except reservation of leftovers. :)


take a break, watch pictures of built VE.As from all over the world pour in, and enjoy life.  you deserve it  :thumb:
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Offline hkf

  • Posts: 206
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • your #1 fan
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #124 on: Thu, 08 September 2016, 00:29:57 »
Quote from: zefyr on Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:57:03
Announcement from oddforge

Howdy Geeks.
We shipped out all of your orders.
It's heading for Massdrop warehouse NJ.
Thanks for your support everyone.
ZeF out, I mean it.
I need some rest.

Oh, one another matter.
We got tens of leftovers.
Some of you are asking when, how to get, etc. It's not hard to reply but I don't want to reply same answer repeatedly.
Here's deal.
It will be sold on our website after Massdrop's individual shipping ends.
It's for aftercare, so we have to keep it for certain period.
You can ask reservation to me, but it's really limited, so I cannot guarantee your reservation.
We don't have any energy left to reproduce another batch.
EXHAUSTED literally, We gotta kill some demons at "Sanctuary".
Feel free to ask anything except reservation of leftovers. :)

PM sent for pcb+plate :D
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Offline zefyr

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Republic of Korea
  • Oddforge
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #125 on: Thu, 08 September 2016, 00:56:49 »
Ah, I need to explain a little more.

First, there's NO B-stock.
All B-stock will be returned to factory, and reproduced as new one.
So, it's all brand new.
I got several (more than you might think) PMs after last minute announcement.
So, yes you can ask stand in line, but as always, no guarantee. it's already full.
And, we will not post the reservation list anywhere.

Some of you got my mail or PM that says "you are in", for those.
Please, DO NOT POST ANYTHING ABOUT YOU ARE IN. That might make others thinks to PM me faster can make it in.
We really are exhausted, please. please give us at lease couple of weeks to rest.

We will announce for selling leftovers when it's ready.
I promise!
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ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline ipreferpie

  • Posts: 150
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #126 on: Thu, 08 September 2016, 03:43:18 »
Congratulations on completing the orders! Just wondering if you have any info on the ALPS plate?
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Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #127 on: Fri, 09 September 2016, 05:29:09 »
Quote from: ipreferpie on Thu, 08 September 2016, 03:43:18
Congratulations on completing the orders! Just wondering if you have any info on the ALPS plate?

The DXF files should be up after a while on the Oddforge website. :thumb:
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Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
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  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #128 on: Fri, 09 September 2016, 06:51:28 »
Quote from: zefyr on Wed, 07 September 2016, 23:57:03
Announcement from oddforge

Howdy Geeks.
We shipped out all of your orders.
It's heading for Massdrop warehouse NJ.
Thanks for your support everyone.
ZeF out, I mean it.
I need some rest.

Oh, one another matter.
We got tens of leftovers.
Some of you are asking when, how to get, etc. It's not hard to reply but I don't want to reply same answer repeatedly.
Here's deal.
It will be sold on our website after Massdrop's individual shipping ends.
It's for aftercare, so we have to keep it for certain period.
You can ask reservation to me, but it's really limited, so I cannot guarantee your reservation.
We don't have any energy left to reproduce another batch.
EXHAUSTED literally, We gotta kill some demons at "Sanctuary".
Feel free to ask anything except reservation of leftovers. :)
So close to closure... Happy to see it over on your side :))
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Offline [Lewynlight]

  • Formerly Dymloslouire
  • Posts: 353
  • Location: Semi retired < typed at 2018, look where I am now
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #129 on: Sun, 11 September 2016, 08:32:07 »
i'll be waiting ...
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Offline glasscaps

  • Posts: 3
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #130 on: Sun, 11 September 2016, 08:44:58 »
Never have a regretted not doing a MD as much as this one.

If anyone ever wants to sell for RRP - you know where I am.
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Offline TerryMathews

  • Posts: 537
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #131 on: Sun, 11 September 2016, 09:01:28 »
Quote from: glasscaps on Sun, 11 September 2016, 08:44:58
If anyone ever wants to sell for RRP - you know where I am.

LOL
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Offline krisst

  • Posts: 134
  • Location: Little Red Dot
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #132 on: Sun, 11 September 2016, 12:31:01 »
Finally, we are going to get our hands on this.

I noticed back when the drop first ended. The total order amount on MD was around 108, I might be wrong and looking at the total order number now, decreased to 102. I guess a few people cancelled their order.

If they only knew there are a list of buyers who missed the drop.
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Offline TerryMathews

  • Posts: 537
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #133 on: Sun, 11 September 2016, 17:01:14 »
Quote from: krisst on Sun, 11 September 2016, 12:31:01
If they only knew there are a list of buyers who missed the drop.

I'm sure they'll be sold in the Bazaar (at a markup)
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Offline meiosis

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1281
  • Location: 408
  • Time
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #134 on: Sun, 11 September 2016, 17:46:17 »
Quote from: zefyr on Thu, 08 September 2016, 00:56:49
Ah, I need to explain a little more.

First, there's NO B-stock.
All B-stock will be returned to factory, and reproduced as new one.
So, it's all brand new.
I got several (more than you might think) PMs after last minute announcement.
So, yes you can ask stand in line, but as always, no guarantee. it's already full.
And, we will not post the reservation list anywhere.

Some of you got my mail or PM that says "you are in", for those.
Please, DO NOT POST ANYTHING ABOUT YOU ARE IN. That might make others thinks to PM me faster can make it in.
We really are exhausted, please. please give us at lease couple of weeks to rest.

We will announce for selling leftovers when it's ready.
I promise!

Amazing QC, first GB done as well as can be (in terms of making the best out of the mishap at the factory.

Lot's of respect!
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Keyboards:
Filco Majestouch 2 - Sakura Edition [MX Blue]
Filco Majestouch 2 - Lotus Edition [MX Brown]
Realforce 23ub - Modded with 55g Domes.
Aripeko TKL

Offline Jedi

  • Posts: 512
  • Location: 702
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #135 on: Sun, 11 September 2016, 21:03:03 »
Patiently waiting for Zefyr and crew to recover... 2017 is just around the corner.  :p
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Offline ceflame

  • Posts: 293
  • Location: OC, California
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #136 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 09:33:50 »
Earlier than expected!

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Offline jal

  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Bay Area, US
  • I can't believe it's not gravy!
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #137 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 10:06:20 »
Quote from: ceflame on Tue, 13 September 2016, 09:33:50
Earlier than expected!

Just got my notification, too. I had been assuming October - nice surprise.
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Offline litster

  • Posts: 2890
  • rare caps?! THAT'S A SMILIN
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #138 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 10:40:57 »
Mine is being shipped by DHL. 
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Offline MajorKoos

  • Posts: 851
  • Location: Bay Area
  • 1 life please. Extra large.
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #139 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 12:25:29 »
I got my tracking number too :)
I'm really looking forward to putting this baby together.

Thank you for all the effort you put into the drop Zefyr - you rock.
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Offline alienman82

  • * Elevated Elder
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Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 13:21:25 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:11:45 by alienman82 »
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Offline Vypr

  • Posts: 56
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #141 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 14:20:42 »
Got my tracking number as well, now I just need to wait for my Zeal transparent stabs and I'll be set.
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current keyboard: VE.A (home) WhiteFox TrueFox (home)  MD1 Infinity (Home)  Infinity Ergodox (work)
future keyboards:

Offline krisst

  • Posts: 134
  • Location: Little Red Dot
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #142 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 15:10:58 »
Was hoping that Zeal stabs will ship earlier previously. I guess building the VE.A will have to wait...
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Offline Ryukuxyz

  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Los Angeles Area
  • VE.A!!!
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #143 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 16:31:58 »
Got my tracking number too! Super excited, thanks Zefyr for all your hard work!
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Offline FrostyToast

  • Litshoard
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 2368
  • Location: Canada
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #144 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 17:33:06 »
You are probably too tired to personally handle custom plate orders.
But when can we expect the release of ALPS plate files?
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Quote from: elton5354
I don't need anymore keyboards

Offline MajorKoos

  • Posts: 851
  • Location: Bay Area
  • 1 life please. Extra large.
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #145 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 20:25:01 »
Lol.
DHL finally updated tracking info for the parcel.
ETA is the 21st, so I'm assuming it's being delivered by stage coach.
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Offline ceflame

  • Posts: 293
  • Location: OC, California
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #146 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 21:05:50 »
Quote from: MajorKoos on Tue, 13 September 2016, 20:25:01
Lol.
DHL finally updated tracking info for the parcel.
ETA is the 21st, so I'm assuming it's being delivered by stage coach.


Mine is set for the 20th. Was hoping it would come sooner so I could bring it to the socal meetup but RIP.
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Offline ccc24

  • Posts: 230
  • Location: San Diego, USA
  • HHKB , Ergodox
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #147 on: Tue, 13 September 2016, 22:37:31 »
My ETA is the 20th as well. Is the build guide on the Massdrop page the most up to date? Thinking about trying to make this hot-swappable switches.
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Offline alienman82

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4051
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #148 on: Wed, 14 September 2016, 16:35:35 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:11:36 by alienman82 »
Logged

Offline jal

  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Bay Area, US
  • I can't believe it's not gravy!
Re: [Oddforge] VE.A
« Reply #149 on: Wed, 14 September 2016, 20:33:33 »
Quote from: alienman82 on Wed, 14 September 2016, 16:35:35
Quote from: ccc24 on Tue, 13 September 2016, 22:37:31
My ETA is the 20th as well. Is the build guide on the Massdrop page the most up to date? Thinking about trying to make this hot-swappable switches.
just get some other boards to try for a while to decide on weights and such.  Hotswap modding is $$$

So, I tried searching around a bit, but am having trouble finding info on this. Anyone have a pointer to how to go about it? I imagine it involves sockets of some sort for the PCB, but am thinking that a fair amount potentially has to change, like the plate. I did get an extra PCB, but not a spare plate.

No idea if I'd try it, but if I were, this would probably be the board to do it to.
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