TypeMatrix keyboard

[iMav]

I doubt there are are many keyboards i would HATE more than this one.  Checkout the TypeMatrix website.  



Man, that's a horrific key layout.  Buy hey, I've never used it so I guess I can't knock it.   :roll:

[xsphat]

A genuine bargain at $110 + 5 shipping!

[waddleman]

Actually my Manager has this model in Dvorak and loves it.

[watduzhkstand4]

I don't understand how you can possibly like that keyboard. the keys from the row above and the row below is directly under or on top of each other. This will be annoying to get used to. Also, do they use scissor switches? The key travel doesn't seem to be too long looking at the keyboard.

[clickclack]

I have always wanted to try a non-staggered keyboard. As none of my fingers meet an actual key when they row forward and back. They all hit between keys.
I must admit though that keyboard makes my eyes cross! :S

[microsoft windows]

That is a retarded keyboard. I'd rather use the On-Screen Keyboard with MouseKeys than that.

[Rajagra]

Man, that's a horrific key layout. :roll:

Wow, that layout is nearly as whacky as the one this crazy fool has bought! :wink:

[o2dazone]

that TRON button better pop out a Light Bike

[cmr]

obligatory maltron

[rdjack21]

The more details you show of that tron the more I want one.

[Shawn Stanford]

I don't understand how you can possibly like that keyboard. the keys from the row above and the row below is directly under or on top of each other. This will be annoying to get used to. Also, do they use scissor switches? The key travel doesn't seem to be too long looking at the keyboard.

Well, someone pointed out in a recent 'rearrange my keyboard' thread that it made little sense for the fingers on the left hand to reach outward when the natural motion in inward...

[watduzhkstand4]

that maltron board looks mad weird lol

[MsKeyboard]

I actually used a TypeMatrix board for awhile.  Not as hard to get used to as one would think.  The keys being in a non-staggered layout actually worked out pretty good, once you got the hang of it.

[quadibloc]

TRON mode..

You switch operating systems, and the keyboard switches from QWERTY to Dvorak? Isn't that a little gratuitous?

[JBert]

that maltron board looks mad weird lol

That's because it's a one-handed model, in this case for the left hand.

@OP: It would make sense to have non-staggered keys if the left and right hand key blocks are rotated, like Maltron does.

@MsKeyboard: so how much do you twist your wrists to align your fingers? I'm just wondering if this keyboard might even cause more RSI if its improperly used.

[MsKeyboard]

JBert,
I wouldn't say that I twisted my wrists to use that board.  As you see from the diagram, the main letter key areas are separated by placing some of your larger, more often used keys in the middle, effectively pushing your hand placement further apart.
Like I said, it was a little different getting used to the layout, but once your hands knew what they were doing it was actually pretty good.
I would also have to add that shoulder width is a factor that many people do not consider when thinking about their keyboard.  The ability to spread the left and right side of the keyboard apart based distinctly on your physical dimensions is a bigger benefit than often perceived.  You will notice that this is one common design element among most of your "true" ergonomic boards.
Hope that helps..........Later

[Rajagra]

I just got a Typematrix 2030 fairly cheap off ebay. It's quite easy to adjust to, my main mistakes are hitting V instead of C and Enter instead of B, it's hard to unlearn the excessive stretching you do on a normal board.

The middle Enter and Backspace keys are quite a stretch for me too - it's just something new that you need to get used to I suppose.

The only thing I really miss is the CapsLock key!!! I remap it to act as Backspace and I've grown rather dependent on it. :-)

The board has some really good features. Lots of keys have nubs or vertical ridges so you can feel your way around easily. The "Num" key is not NumLock (though the board has that too.) "Num" activates the built-in number pad. A bit like the model M spacesaver from what I've read.

I'd like to see the silver plate on the left disappear, for a tidier appearance.
What I'd love to see though, is a Trackpoint on the blank area under the space bar. It's almost like it was designed to have one there.

Overall it is a great keyboard. If it didn't use scissor switches I'd recommend it to anyone. As it is, well, you know if you like scissors or not.

My dilemma now - do I learn Dvorak to make the most of the built-in layout? (I'm already a Colemak man.)

[JBert]

I still wonder how you position your hands on it and how much it changes your hand and finder travel. After all, the old key arrangement works decently for your right hand.
Are there some pictures or guidelines in the manual?

As for your dilemma: according to the carpalX website, colemak is somewhat more balanced than dvorak with regard to hand usage.
I don't know what the advantages of the typematrix are for dvorak usage. Have you got one with hardware dvorak?

[Rajagra]

It actually feels very natural after a short time. You have an extra 3/4" hand separation over a normal keyboard, which is quite subtle. The right hand adjusts quickly to the non-staggered layout. The left hand/bottom row is where you need to ease off the stretching that you've learned on staggered boards. I'm struggling with that middle backspace key though. Might have to remap something to fix that.

The manual mainly just describes what the keys do.

Yes it has hardware Dvorak. Could be handy on work machines where you can't use software for any reason. I don't think my brain can store 3 layouts though.

This image is from their website:

[JBert]

Thanks for the picture. It doesn't look that "comfy" though, as you still seems to bring your wrists together.

I don't know whether I could use one with problems... I guess I'll have to watch Ebay should I ever want to try one.

[justin]

Actually, this keyboard is logically superior to our staggered layouts. If you had typed on this logical grid layout all your life, and were forced to type on a staggered board, you'd think it was a ridiculous idea to stagger the keys. As for the ergonomics, I guess that may be subjective. Both arrangements have their merits.

[mech]

I bought a DvortyBoard before they switched to reselling the TypeMatrix.  That thing had some of the crappiest dome/membrane keys I ever felt... at least this one is scissors (right?).  I can tolerate those much better.  An affordable hardware-Dvorak mechanical board would be great...

Have you done any comparative speed tests?  Are you goofing up with Enter/Shift and other keys that are placed differently?

[Rajagra]

Yes it uses scissor switches. They aren't bad, but I noticed the space bar can miss if it isn't pushed firmly. To be fair that's probably because I'm getting used to light switches that don't need to be bottomed out.

The enter key isn't too hard to reach. The trick for me is to aim low down on the key, that way it's quite comfortable.

There would be no point my doing speed tests - I'm used to having a backspace next to my left pinkie, so I get completely thrown without that.

But that is the only part of the layout I find difficult. Normal typing - bashing away at letter keys - actually feels pretty normal after a few minutes adapting. The arrow keys are easy to find thanks to various bumps and ridges on some of the keys.

It's quite enjoyable. I almost wish I didn't have other keyboards to keep me away from it. It's an awesome layout for anyone who makes it their main keyboard and can get the most out of it.

[mech]

Hmm.  Considering the keys aren't staggered, the Fn-accessible num pad would actually be fine to use.  I also really like the extra set of arrow keys, also Fn-accessible, right on the home row.  That's the only downer using vim and Dvorak - hjkl are all over the place.  This would solve that.

[Martina]

Hello,

I doubt there are are many keyboards i would HATE more than this one.

Why are here so many negative opinions about this keyboard? I found almost none on other sites, so I'm curious.

I'm looking for a new keyboard(to relieve my CTS/RSI) and I have narrowed my choice down to TypeMatrix 2030 and Kinesis Advantage. I'd also like to switch from QWERTY to Dvorak.

For those who have tried both of these keyboards - which one do you find better and why?

Thanks for your advice,

 Martina

[eMps]

A non-staggered layout makes much more sense than the incredibly nonsensical 1/2, 1/4, 1/2 crap we're used to.

[hoggy]

Welcome to GeekHack!


I've got a old 2020 and an Advantage.

After you've got used to it, the Kinesis is amazingly comfortable.  

Reasons to chose the Advantage
The separation between the hands is much larger than the typematrix - reduces the bending at the wrists.  
Scalloping of the keys feels very natural
Mechanical switches (cherry brown) - long life
Programmable - in firmware.  You can remap the capslock to backspace.
If you type in Dvorak, you don't have to select it every time you reboot your computer.
You can get a footpedal hooked up to it.



Reasons to chose the 2030
Cheaper
Smaller
All keys feel the same (the Advantage has some not very nice function keys)

I can't recommend the Advantage enough.

Both will take a little while to get used to.

I'd recommend the switch to Dvorak, but sometimes I wonder if I would have had an easier time switching to Colemak.

Have a look at your mouse too.  There are a few vertical mice out there that might help you.

Hello,


Why are here so many negative opinions about this keyboard? I found almost none on other sites, so I'm curious.

I'm looking for a new keyboard(to relieve my CTS/RSI) and I have narrowed my choice down to TypeMatrix 2030 and Kinesis Advantage. I'd also like to switch from QWERTY to Dvorak.

For those who have tried both of these keyboards - which one do you find better and why?

Thanks for your advice,

 Martina

[noctua]

I type very comfortable with non-staggered resp. matrix like (colemak) layout. My is an
self-built keyboard, not a shiny one, more in sense of ergonomic research..

[Lanx]

i'm sold on a matrix layout.

Hello,


Why are here so many negative opinions about this keyboard? I found almost none on other sites, so I'm curious.

I'm looking for a new keyboard(to relieve my CTS/RSI) and I have narrowed my choice down to TypeMatrix 2030 and Kinesis Advantage. I'd also like to switch from QWERTY to Dvorak.

For those who have tried both of these keyboards - which one do you find better and why?

Thanks for your advice,

 Martina

If your looking for a place with good ergonomic suggestions and advice for rsi/cts I wouldn't say this is the place, but I haven't really tried to find a better place really to talk about ergonomics, what I have found out about ergonomics has been cool and I've been trying to put these advances into my current mod, so that's cool, but really not much talk about anything else ergonomic related.

[msiegel]

hey noctua, do you have more pics of your custom board?

i looked for a thread in Modifications, but the only pic i'm finding is in your photo album

[lowpoly]

Why are here so many negative opinions about this keyboard? I found almost none on other sites, so I'm curious.

Someone already said it, the two halves are too close together. With a conventional layout you can type with straight wrists with your hands close together. Ergo manufacturers used pics that showed bent wrists with conventional 'boards when it - in some cases - is just the opposite.

This kind of pic:

A non-staggered layout makes much more sense than the incredibly nonsensical 1/2, 1/4, 1/2 crap we're used to.

Only if the separation is enough, i.e. your lower arms are parallel or nearly parallel.

[noctua]

hey noctua, do you have more pics of your custom board?

i looked for a thread in Modifications, but the only pic i'm finding is in your photo album

i plan to create an thread... and of course i have some more pictures
this prototype is since six months my main board, since i switched to
colemak..

[Keymonger]

This is total nonsense. No one says you should force your wrists and fingers to follow the line of the keys. Unfortunately I found this out AFTER I bought a Microsoft Ergo 4000. It's still bad to have hands so close together, but wrist-bending like this is not necessary at all.

[Keymonger]

I type very comfortable with non-staggered resp. matrix like (colemak) layout. My is an
self-built keyboard, not a shiny one, more in sense of ergonomic research..

Show Image

My God.... it's..... it's beautiful.

[Martina]

I can't recommend the Advantage enough.

I see that you have tried a lot of ergo keyboards - is Advantage your 'most recommended' (commercially available) keyboard? Have you problems with CTS/RSI?

Have a look at your mouse too. There are a few vertical mice out there that might help you.

Currently I'm using Logitech trackball (just for cursor movement with my thumb) and 2 mouses duct taped on the floor - for left and right clicks with my feet. I think that it has lessened my CTS pain. I might take a further look at mouses after I choose my keyboard.

Someone already said it, the two halves are too close together. With a conventional layout you can type with straight wrists with your hands close together.

And with non-staggered layout you can't?


The biggest weakness(the only one?) seems to be that the wrists would be bended while using TypeMatrix. Is this a big deal?
I'm wondering why they have not made a splittable version.


Thanks for all responses..

[Lanx]

imo, the only thing the typematrix has going for it is a matrix layout, otherwise it's seemingly flat and non angled in everyway, pretty much will make you bend your wrists in every uncomfortable way possible.
don't get me wrong a staggered layout will do the same, any 104 keyboard will make your wrists bend uncomfortably, does it matter for ppl who don't have an issue? no it does not.
BUT for people who are having cts/rsi issues, a split ergo keyboard usually meants a 45 degreeish tilt along the split, this mostly does away with the super bent wrist, or they make your hands go all the way out shoulder length wise, ala kinesis.

[Input Nirvana]

The TypeMatrix and Kinesis Contoured are very different animals. Not an equal comparison. They share a similar layout feature, that's about it.

Try to use both to see what feels better to make a better decision.

There is a cost difference, but your health is definitely worth the added cost if you do any amount of typing other than a few emails/internet searches a day. RSI can be nasty stuff. Kinesis has a 60 day return policy, or you can always buy used and resell if it's not working out for you.

NOCTUA: I definitely second the "Post your mod info!" I would love to see what you started with, and the process you are going through.

[hoggy]

I see that you have tried a lot of ergo keyboards - is Advantage your 'most recommended' (commercially available) keyboard? Have you problems with CTS/RSI?

My problems stem from the neck/shoulder area, any problems in the wrist are referred.

The advantage is clearly my favourite, but what works for me might not work for you.    

If Kinesis offer a 60 return, then I think it makes sense to start with them.  It will take you at least a few weeks to get used to it - even without switching to dvorak.  The more work you expect to get on it in the first week will only add to your stress levels.  Pick an easy week to start with.

The biggest thing that works for me is change.  I tend to change keyboards at least once a day.  

Other 'boards you could try -

Mechanical
Maltron - similar to the Kinesis, but costs more.  I hired one for a month and I loved it.

Rubber domes (don't last very long in comparison).
Goldtouch - feels nice and is quiet.
Kinesis freestyle - offers a lot of flexibility. Accessories aren't cheap.

Comfort - feels 'orrid, very fiddly to set up and is very expensive.  Just don't (again just my opinion).


If it helps - the switches in the Advantage should last 50 million keystrokes - the Typematrix should last 10 million.  Cost per day or week for either of these is pretty much nothing.

Are you taking rest breaks?  It sounds like you've made some changes already...

[Martina]

imo, the only thing the typematrix has going for it is a matrix layout

What about the backspace and enter key rearangement and larger shift(in home row)? I guess this is also beneficial..

I tend to change keyboards at least once a day.

Isn't it problematic to swith between matrix and stagerred layouts?
And I do take breaks - I have an outlook appointment that reminds me every hour...

BTW I sent an email to Typematrix support asking them why don't they make a splittable version. I hope they don't mind if I post their reply:

We do know that a split keyboard would be another version of our keyboard that would have more benefits.* However, "why" we don't do this is because we cannot afford to do it right now.* Such a model would cost at least twice as much as the current 2030 to make because it would have two different parts rather than one.* We are looking for further funding that would allow us to make several different models of the TypeMatrix design.

Considering that even they agree that splittable keyboard would be beneficial, I'll go probably with Advantage. (And buy TypeMatrix splittable model when it becomes available)

Do we also agree that:

-matrix layout is better than staggered?
-Dvorak is better than QWERTY?
(for CTS/RSI)

[Lanx]

What about the backspace and enter key rearangement and larger shift(in home row)? I guess this is also beneficial..

I've modded my board to include a center return/enter key, I barely use it because i've had muscle memory to use the regular return key (i have both options). Plus it's just so "far" away but i do have a modded split ergo, that might be the difference as well, typematrix is not ergo split.

I played around with vertical shift for a while, it seemed "nice" but it'd only be useful to me if i could implement it on both sides. True i don't use caps lock, but on the right side vertical is a problem, the " or quotes is regularly there, but that's me i do not want to relearn keys i'm keeping everything the same muscle memory i've had for 5 years (using a ms ergo 4k), so it looks good if you are willing to relearn.

Do we also agree that:

-matrix layout is better than staggered?
-Dvorak is better than QWERTY?
(for CTS/RSI)

I've never thought, dvorak or colemak or any other other layout is better versus the other. My thinking is that your going to be using all fingers practically all the time when your typing, it's not like you get cts or rsi from too many aqzqazqaz, get get cts/rsi from many other factors that contribute to rsi/cts. Will it help? it might, it might have the same line of thought as rotating your tires, you rotate your tires cuz one side gets worn out more than the other (i don't know which), but you do it to even out the wear and tear. This is what i think dvorak/colemak try to do, put more wear and tear on your "strong" fingers. So if your rsi/cts stems from wrist/forearm pain i think it'd help more than if you had bad posture pain.

+1 for matrix vs staggered.

[hoggy]

What about the backspace and enter key rearangement and larger shift(in home row)? I guess this is also beneficial..


Isn't it problematic to swith between matrix and stagerred layouts?
And I do take breaks - I have an outlook appointment that reminds me every hour...

BTW I sent an email to Typematrix support asking them why don't they make a splittable version. I hope they don't mind if I post their reply:



Considering that even they agree that splittable keyboard would be beneficial, I'll go probably with Advantage. (And buy TypeMatrix splittable model when it becomes available)

Do we also agree that:

-matrix layout is better than staggered?
-Dvorak is better than QWERTY?
(for CTS/RSI)

Quite a few of us remap the caps lock to backspace.  It's a pain to dance around with both shift keys sometimes - but that's rare.  Using the caps lock means you can backspace and not lose your position on the home keys - pretty handy if you work on different layouts.

As for switching, my step dad used to work as a car driver and would drive at least 3 different cars a week.  He was very comfortable driving left or right hand drive and manual or automatic.  It takes me days to get used to another car and feel comfortable driving it - because I rarely drive another car.  Since I switch often, I can switch often.  

Whichever keyboard you go for, stick with it all the time until you get used to it - don't cheat for a while with a standard layout - it'll drag out the acclimatisation.

Overall, the switching between staggered/matrix layouts has slowed my typing speed down a bit, but the improvement in comfort makes it worth the while.  

If typematrix ever bring out the splitable keyboard - I'd buy one as well.

I switched to Dvorak a while ago.  I find it quite comfy compared to Qwerty, but I had a hard time adapting.  Others here have reported a much easier transition.

[hoggy]

(And buy TypeMatrix splittable model when it becomes available)

You've captured the spirit of these forums right there.

[noctua]

in my opinion..

  · Nonstaggered resp. matrix like layout, are easier to learn and to handle.
  · Splitted keyboard allows my arms do become an more natural pose.
  · It exist no "perfect" layout, but i can reduced my finger travel, with some of them.
  · Kinesis has clear some design failures, these are thumb and pinky related,     compared to the Maltron.
  . Last but not least, our wrists feel comfortable if these can type in an angled pose, see the Maltron.

the typematrix keyboard, should become an splittable version.

[Martina]

Thanks for all opinions, I'll go for the Advantage.

I've never thought, dvorak or colemak or any other other layout is better versus the other.

Isn't less travel distance better (for CTS/RSI)?


What mouse/trackball do you use with Kinesis Advantage? I think that trackball on the side(my current setup) would cause a little discomfort..


Would it be a problem if I buy a QWERTY Advantage and would like to use it with dvorak layout? (haven't found dvorak model in the UK)

[hoggy]

Would it be a problem if I buy a QWERTY Advantage and would like to use it with dvorak layout? (haven't found dvorak model in the UK)

Just press and hold program and then hold shift and then tap f5 - release all of the keys - the board will then be in dvorak mode.

You're probably better off without the correct labels on the keys anyway.

[tarc]

I've been using a 2030 for three months now.
I quickly adapted to the aligned layout and I find it comfortable to type with.

I do graphic stuff, my hands stays to the left area of the keyboard often (other hand being on mouse or wacom). Having delete, backspace and return keys in the middle of the keyboard reduce hand travel.

This also mean less looking down at the keyboard to find those keys at the other side of the keyboard, less head and neck traveling.

I dislike the position of the fn key, too used having having ctrl on the lower left. Also the fact that many special key are hard to remap.

I liked the key action of my previous cherry compact keyboard better though.

[gilgam]

I found the space bar quite hard and often write without space between words.