[IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[henz]

THE TIME HAS COME!

[Karura]

I'm honestly quite excited. Do you mind if I ask if there were any manufacturing or communications hurdles to get through?

How did you get the Chinese factory/company to agree to make the moulds and stuff for you, if it's for such a limited run? I envision that you might want to re-run these a few more times to get the most out of the moulds, would that be correct?

[pr0ximity]

Can't recall, did these end up being cast or milled aluminum?

[romevi]

THE TIME HAS COME!

AND SO HAVE I.

[atlas3686]

Can't recall, did these end up being cast or milled aluminum?

Ellipse said something recently about them possibly being cast like the originals but I think he said the prototypes are milled.

[cjhard]

IIRC, the cost to cast was too high for the quantity to do cast aluminium.

[Ellipse]

Any more early bird tooling volunteers?  So far 9 of you have volunteered to kick in $100 for the early bird tooling costs out of the 15 needed.  It helps everyone get their keyboards in April/May instead of August/September, and you get moved towards the front of the line and get your keyboard tested and mailed earlier.

Correct I have not decided on CNC vs. mold for the case just yet.  I hope to do a mold for metal cases as an upgrade from CNC milled aluminum. 

Karura the key is to use photos extensively - I send photos with the specifications of what I am looking for, and they send photos of what they make before they send it to me.  They didn't agree to make the molds, I paid for the molds .  The problem is the high MOQ and tooling costs associated with each run.  Also not everything is made with a mold - setting up the machines to make all the different parts in a Model F costs a bundle.  The MOQ for the barrels and flippers, for example, is tens of thousands of each of them.  Therefore I am doing the early bird run and the regular run in a big batch. 

ccc24 the keyboard will arrive to you pre-programmed for the layout you choose.  Of course you'll want to configure the layers and such (I will put in a default function layer for everyone).

Who has suggestions for the Kishsaver function/2nd layer? 

[ghostjuggernaut]

I can help out with the early birds.

I vote for HHKB style fn layer. It's what I'm most used to though, so I am partial to it.

[fanpeople]

What would the deadline be for early bird? Are birds involved?

But srs deadline?

[Ludovician]

What would the deadline be for early bird? Are birds involved?

But srs deadline?

I believe it's 22/2.

[fanpeople]

What would the deadline be for early bird? Are birds involved?

But srs deadline?

I believe it's 22/2.

Sweet cheers

[Elrick]

Any more early bird tooling volunteers?  So far 9 of you have volunteered to kick in $100 for the early bird tooling costs out of the 15 needed.  It helps everyone get their keyboards in April/May instead of August/September, and you get moved towards the front of the line and get your keyboard tested and mailed earlier.

All I would like to know is when can we purchase our keyboards from your website?

That is indeed the ONLY thing I want to know about this online Model-F purchase.

[Ellipse]

I'm typing on the brand new Model F62 keyboard!  I just did a typing test and the keys/my typing were 100% accurate and I was able to type even faster than on my original Model F!  The F62 has been completely assembled.  I still have to assemble and test the F77 and continue my testing. 

Elrick I will let you know!  It should be by the end of the month, maybe as soon as this weekend!  The prototype is tested and working 100% but I want to get the professional-looking photographs and video up on the site beforehand.

[Melvang]

I'm typing on the brand new Model F62 keyboard!  I just did a typing test and the keys/my typing were 100% accurate and I was able to type even faster than on my original Model F!  The F62 has been completely assembled.  I still have to assemble and test the F77 and continue my testing. 

Elrick I will let you know!  It should be by the end of the month, maybe as soon as this weekend!  The prototype is tested and working 100% but I want to get the professional-looking photographs and video up on the site beforehand.

What did you end up using as a voltage threshold if you don't mind me asking?

[Ellipse]

120 worked for the F62. 

[Elrick]

Elrick I will let you know!  It should be by the end of the month, maybe as soon as this weekend!  The prototype is tested and working 100% but I want to get the professional-looking photographs and video up on the site beforehand.

I'll be hanging onto my current work laptop for instant payment when you make this finally happen    .

Sorry in putting the pressure upon you but I've been waiting for this Keyboard for such a long time and don't want to miss out when you post that all important link.  When you get old you don't want anymore nasty surprises to be sprung here especially when it comes to owning this keyboard.

[Ellipse]

Well Elrick the link is already out there - modelfkeyboards.com - it's just that ordering is disabled

Everyone feel free to check out the site and point out errors.  I haven't finalized shipping costs yet as I have not weighed the final keyboards with packaging.  The other pricing should be accurate unless Unicomp changed their pricing recently.

The photos are stand-in photos and will be replaced with new photos before ordering opens.  The YouTube video on the home page doesn't exist yet so it's just a placeholder box there.

[romevi]

Well Elrick the link is already out there - modelfkeyboards.com - it's just that ordering is disabled

Everyone feel free to check out the site and point out errors.  I haven't finalized shipping costs yet as I have not weighed the final keyboards with packaging.  The other pricing should be accurate unless Unicomp changed their pricing recently.

The photos are stand-in photos and will be replaced with new photos before ordering opens.  The YouTube video on the home page doesn't exist yet so it's just a placeholder box there.

Ooh; bookmarking so I can read everything on there!

[Ellipse]

How's next week for a Manhattan keyboard meetup to see the new F62/F77s and any other keyboards people want to bring (hoping for some original Model F's, M's, beamsprings, etc.)?

Can anyone volunteer a Manhattan venue to host the keyboard meetup?  Maybe someone in the tech industry with permission to use a conference room for the meetup?

[Muffinbottoms]

It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice

You know...I may actually try that haha 

[fanpeople]

Could we get some photos posted. Like teasers, I want some Fpron. Prease

[3K]

Well Elrick the link is already out there - modelfkeyboards.com - it's just that ordering is disabled

Everyone feel free to check out the site and point out errors.  I haven't finalized shipping costs yet as I have not weighed the final keyboards with packaging.  The other pricing should be accurate unless Unicomp changed their pricing recently.

The photos are stand-in photos and will be replaced with new photos before ordering opens.  The YouTube video on the home page doesn't exist yet so it's just a placeholder box there.

I do not like how much this website will consume my money...

Are the extra parts only available with purchasing a whole board? Or could I order like a single spring assembly?

Also are the 'Unprinted 1U key' units single parts or top and bottom part? Would love to go full blank on the BS boards I already own.

Talking about older boards... is there a way to offer SDL cables too? Or general replacement controllers / adapters for Ms?

(these questions kind of imply that you offer more reasonable shipping fees than existing sources, like the unicomp website)

[HoffmanMyster]

How's next week for a Manhattan keyboard meetup to see the new F62/F77s and any other keyboards people want to bring (hoping for some original Model F's, M's, beamsprings, etc.)?

Can anyone volunteer a Manhattan venue to host the keyboard meetup?  Maybe someone in the tech industry with permission to use a conference room for the meetup?

Forget about Manhattan, do the meetup in Chicago. 

[romevi]

How's next week for a Manhattan keyboard meetup to see the new F62/F77s and any other keyboards people want to bring (hoping for some original Model F's, M's, beamsprings, etc.)?

Can anyone volunteer a Manhattan venue to host the keyboard meetup?  Maybe someone in the tech industry with permission to use a conference room for the meetup?

Forget about Manhattan, do the meetup in Chicago. 

Aww, yis...

[ctm]

What keys are included in keyset?

[ryahirv]

@Ellipse:

If you still an Early Bird, I'm willing - Just let me know.
Cheers

[againer]

Nope ir0n.  It's very easy to open up though - just 4 regular screws to get inside though, plus another screw for the metal strain relief.  You can probably use that cable and route it from the inside. 

Some DT and GH users like Hypersphere are planning to mod their F62 with a USB extension cable so you can detach the USB cable without opening up the keyboard.  There's plenty of room inside to fit an extension cable.  You may need to file down the hole to make it slightly larger.

Yeah, this is what I did to my last Model F. Helps you have the option to keep it stock as well, and is super easy to do.

If you want to live the dream - keep the original cable as is.  Remember that WE are in this GB because it's a Model-F creation hence you don't defame or remove any original appointments delivered in this package.

It would be sacrilege to mix Smirnoff with Pickle Juice, so why would you disembowel a perfect Model-F to run a removable usb cable?  You'll be cutting off it's 'originality' just so you could be with the "hip crowd" here on GH Central, damn them all to hell, leave this keyboard as is    .

If I wanted an original model F only a real original would satisfy me and I had to buy an expensive vintage model F.
Personally I am here for a superior switch in a portable form factor. So the 60%  Model F with the hopefully coming smaller case will be my thing. And a detachable USB cable makes it easier to put in a bag too.
You can even send me to Hell if you let me use the F62 on the journey.

[Ellipse]

3K yes extra parts are available without needing to buy a full keyboard.  To have me order something for you from Unicomp that's not part of the keyboard's configuration menu, just put in the total amount for the extras in the "Other customizations (in $1 increments)" product.  So for a blank pearl/pebble set you'd need $20.  They only sell space bars separately (not included with the key sets) but you don't need one if just converting your existing Model M's to a blank layout.

I added an option for a Model M cable as I have a few extras. 

Thanks ryahirv I appreciate it! 

A note for all the early bird tooling volunteers - to make it easy I just added a cart item called "Early Bird Tooling Volunteer" - please add that to your cart when placing your order.  Your order will get moved towards the head of the line in terms of when I test and ship your keyboard, as well as getting an earlier serial number and your user name will be included on the label inside the keyboard.

This puts us at 12 early bird volunteers out of the 15 needed (assuming no one changes their mind)!

And againer the smaller case would be a lot easier to travel with than the original case.  The F62/F77 keyboards will be heavy! 

I would like to help make this smaller case for the same price as the larger case since some of you really want the smaller case - please everyone let me know if you're interested in the smaller case!

ctm I expect to include the keys that Unicomp sends me when you order a particular set.  I will talk with Unicomp to try to get a bulk discount, and possibly an additional discount if they provide fewer keys for the F62 set, for example the Insert/Delete/etc. keys and the whole num pad area is could be skipped and possibly save everyone $5.  If you want a full set included with your F62 that can be done too.

The boxes are so sturdy - the F62 box weighs one pound!

[ryahirv]

Thanks ryahirv I appreciate it! 

A note for all the early bird tooling volunteers - to make it easy I just added a cart item called "Early Bird Tooling Volunteer" - please add that to your cart when placing your order.  Your order will get moved towards the head of the line in terms of when I test and ship your keyboard, as well as getting an earlier serial number and your user name will be included on the label inside the keyboard.

Sorry - Confused.

Should we be doing this now?
Where/How?

Thanks!

[Elrick]

This puts us at 12 early bird volunteers out of the 15 needed (assuming no one changes their mind)!

Yeah, where's the rest of you lot?  Talk about claiming to be Model-F fanatics and I can't believe that there are only 12 of them on this planet.

Ellipse isn't a Korean Rip-Off merchant, wanting something for nothing but if there's not enough volunteers then this keyboard will take months before anyone gets anything, it's your choice people.

Besides where's the hardcore addicts, wanting a low numbered Model-F keyboard which so much of you aren't afraid of handing over $600USD+ for a single USED SSK?

[Ellipse]

ryahirv - nope you can wait until I open up orders, hopefully by month end, maybe sooner.

Elrick we are very close to 15 so I'm sure 3 more people will really want it early and will want to help everyone!

Per my web site, the regular round will run a few more months, meaning the regular round keyboards won't arrive until August/September.  The early bird ones should arrive in April/May.

[ccc24]

is the early bird round only offered to those 15 or those who also order withing a certain time frame?

[Ellipse]

ccc everyone can get in early, thanks to the extra tooling charges being covered by the 15 volunteers.

[ccc24]

ah okay sounds good. And when we place our order can we include in the notes some slight layout changes? For example for the f77 can we have pg down/up and control instead of caps lock on our initial layout?

[Ellipse]

Yes please use the notes section for requests and I will try. 

If you want to switch ctrl and caps lock you will need to either get blank caps or pay $4 for the Unicomp caps with switched legends.

[Techno Trousers]

I think the order form should have drop downs to allow customizing some of the flipper/stabilizer choices (with images or illustrations highlighting the difference each choice makes). I think the default drop down choice should be the first listed for each of these:

ANSI backspace or split into two keys?
ANSI enter and \| keys, or ISO Enter key?
ANSI left shift, or ISO short left shift + extra key?
[F77] two individual keys, or numpad-style double size vertical + key?
[F77] two individual keys, or numpad--style double size vertical Enter key?

These are choices that will be easier to have done by the factory during assembly. I know it's not super difficult to dismantle and reconfigure (I've ANSI-fied F122s), but for the price it would be nice not to have to do that, and just customize the key caps themselves.

Also, please remember to list separately orderable products for:

Extra F62 packaging (gotta give my original Kish a nice storage home)
Extra F62 foam mats
Maybe F77 versions of the above, though I know there are only a couple of those known to exist.
Extra painted F62 cases, for those who want them.

[ccc24]

Yes please use the notes section for requests and I will try. 

If you want to switch ctrl and caps lock you will need to either get blank caps or pay $4 for the Unicomp caps with switched legends.

I'll probably get the APL keycaps but I don't mind if it doesn't actually have control printed instead of Caps Lock, I just want the key mapped to Control

[ctm]

On the current webside, F62 with ANSI keys is listed at $359 and F62 without keys is $325. This seems more expensive than standard Unicomp set. Am I missing something?

[Melvang]

I think the order form should have drop downs to allow customizing some of the flipper/stabilizer choices (with images or illustrations highlighting the difference each choice makes). I think the default drop down choice should be the first listed for each of these:

ANSI backspace or split into two keys?
ANSI enter and \| keys, or ISO Enter key?
ANSI left shift, or ISO short left shift + extra key?
[F77] two individual keys, or numpad-style double size vertical + key?
[F77] two individual keys, or numpad--style double size vertical Enter key?

These are choices that will be easier to have done by the factory during assembly. I know it's not super difficult to dismantle and reconfigure (I've ANSI-fied F122s), but for the price it would be nice not to have to do that, and just customize the key caps themselves.

Also, please remember to list separately orderable products for:

Extra F62 packaging (gotta give my original Kish a nice storage home)
Extra F62 foam mats
Maybe F77 versions of the above, though I know there are only a couple of those known to exist.
Extra painted F62 cases, for those who want them.

Or just have all the barrels empty, and ship the stabilizer inserts in a bag, and let the user put them in.  White inserts are for horizontal keys such as ANSI Enter, backspace, and shift.  Black inserts are for vertical keys such as ISO enter, Numpad Enter and numpad +.  They just push in with no disassembly required.  Taking the plates apart is really only required if you want to move inserts around without risking scratching them.

On the current webside, F62 with ANSI keys is listed at $359 and F62 without keys is $325. This seems more expensive than standard Unicomp set. Am I missing something?

Shipping keys from unicomp with standard Unicomp shipping.

[ApocalypseMaow]

Any more early bird tooling volunteers?  So far 9 of you have volunteered to kick in $100 for the early bird tooling costs out of the 15 needed.  It helps everyone get their keyboards in April/May instead of August/September, and you get moved towards the front of the line and get your keyboard tested and mailed earlier.

Correct I have not decided on CNC vs. mold for the case just yet.  I hope to do a mold for metal cases as an upgrade from CNC milled aluminum. 

Karura the key is to use photos extensively - I send photos with the specifications of what I am looking for, and they send photos of what they make before they send it to me.  They didn't agree to make the molds, I paid for the molds .  The problem is the high MOQ and tooling costs associated with each run.  Also not everything is made with a mold - setting up the machines to make all the different parts in a Model F costs a bundle.  The MOQ for the barrels and flippers, for example, is tens of thousands of each of them.  Therefore I am doing the early bird run and the regular run in a big batch. 

ccc24 the keyboard will arrive to you pre-programmed for the layout you choose.  Of course you'll want to configure the layers and such (I will put in a default function layer for everyone).

Who has suggestions for the Kishsaver function/2nd layer?

Sign me up!!! Just drop me a pm where to send money 

[Techno Trousers]

You need to take the plates apart to move flippers or swap flippers and stabilizers. You'd have to take the keyboard apart to change between any of my proposed drop down choices.

[Melvang]

You need to take the plates apart to move flippers.

This may be true, bit would add TONS of time shipping inserts from Unicomp to China for the factory to do it.

Is thwre a Kit option which would be build yourself to sace a few dollars?

[Techno Trousers]

You need to take the plates apart to move flippers.

This may be true, bit would add TONS of time shipping inserts from Unicomp to China for the factory to do it.

I don't mind if the stabilizers are left out by the factory, but some barrels will need to either have a flipper in it, or be left empty by them, depending on the choice made.

[Ellipse]

The factory will be assembling the layouts and customizing the spring placement - I will tell them make X units with this spring arrangement, X units with this spring arrangement and these keys, etc.  Keys and stabilizer inserts ship in one batch to China in late February/early March, where they will do assembly and installation of stabilizers and keys where needed.  Of course if you order no keys, you will not get stabilizer inserts either (they are not included).  You can add them to your cart though as I have them listed at $1.50 each.

Key costs are passed on from Unicomp and include the key set, spacebar (separate cost on Unicomp's side), 3-4 stabilizer inserts, and any other custom keys needed for the key set.

There is no kit option.  They need to be assembled and tested.  I will be testing each one for quality control.  One bad spring could cause the key not to buckle. 

Techno please take a look at my web site for the drop downs I put in for now.  Split backspace with regular layout, vertical 2U enter/plus keys, etc. can be requested by entering a note in before clicking add to cart.  The most common layout options will have a dropdown.  The rest will  be "by request/note only."

A number of GHers suggested to keep the options limited and let those who want to move their caps around, move their own caps around, but just offer the different flipper/spring arrangements to minimize someone having to open up their keyboard.

[Techno Trousers]

Okay. My only customization to the F77 is to have the ISO style short left shift. So I'll enter that in a note.

Will we be able to add extra packaging and mats to the cart? Also, I asked this a while back but it probably got lost in the shuffle. Would Unicomp be able to provide key sets made up of their gray modifiers and brilliant white alphas?

[cjhard]

Some shops have options by cluster, for example you could have the following option set:

Keys: [existing options]
Color: [existing options]
Enter Cluster: ISO, ANSI, 3-key / Split
Left Shift: ISO Split, ANSI
Right Shift: HHKB Fn-Split, ANSI, OG Split
Backspace: Split, 2u-wide

And simple pictographs depicting the location and meaning of each option.

I wish Unicomp still made the blue modifiers from the UK Wildcats board. That would be so ace to have Electric Bluegaloo together with Blue Legend Alphas

[Ellipse]

Sounds good Techno.  Yes you can add extras - the web store address leaked already so feel free to check out the options and let me know if there are any bugs - ordering is still disabled - modelfkeyboards.com

It looks like Unicomp offers gray or white but to get both you'd need to pay extra for the modifier keys.  Before paying I recommend emailing Unicomp to see if your combo is possible as an option without extra cost.  So that you know what the total will be before placing the order.

As an alternate option cjhard, Unicomp still offers blue, red, or green keys at extra cost.  http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/Buttons

[cjhard]

I know of those, they are the blue legends I mention I'd totally get if they made the blue-plastic modifiers still. It was "bargain bin" at the time I last saw it on the store page. Though watching that video, I never noticed the legends on the board were already all blue.

Maybe I'll wait around the Electronic Bay sometime after this buy

[Ellipse]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

[SixtyLife]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

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DAMN. Congrats on your beautiful babies Ellipse!