[IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[ika]

I did not see that there was a small case in the works, I may have to switch to that. Luckily there's some time before I can no longer change my order!

[Ludovician]

Small case is not likely to be available during the early bird run.

[Ellipse]

We have our first important issue

Unfortunately PayPal has locked my funds as a security precaution (?) given the $30,000+ that came in from the first few days of accepting orders. 

Orders are still being accepted through PayPal without issue, so please do get in your order if you haven't already! 


I am going to speak with them ASAP and try to resolve it but this could cause a hassle.  I have already fully disclosed to them the product web site, nature of the project, and the increased expected business levels.

It seems like they often release funds only after they are exposed publicly about the specific case and someone has made a noise about the issue by posting about it on a blog.

If anyone has any experience or advice dealing with PayPal or any contacts there, or can offer specific help in another way please let me know. 

I don't expect this to put us off schedule though, because at the very worst if it comes down to it, I may need to cancel the PayPal funds and accept payments over credit card or check (your order is not being canceled!  This is just the worst-case scenario).  It will be inconvenient for everyone unfortunately if this turns out to be the case but we don't have to use PayPal to accept payment online.  I'll keep everyone posted though.

So far about 25% of the interest form has paid and many have ordered more keyboards than what they put down in the form - a good thing!  The web site has slowed down from the increased traffic but it is still holding up well.

Yep henz Ludovician is right.

againer I can't say for sure that the small case will be ready for the first round.  Chinese New Year is a big holiday where the factory will take about 2 weeks off starting around 2/4.  I hope to talk to them this week before then but I'm not sure how far I will get.  I submitted the small case CAD draft files a couple weeks ago but they have not gotten their engineers to look at it closely just yet to my knowledge.

[riotonthebay]

PayPal is a truly horrible platform for group buys for this very reason, unfortunately. :/

I hope it gets resolved soon and reasonably painlessly.

[Elrick]

PayPal is a truly horrible platform for group buys for this very reason, unfortunately. :/

I hope it gets resolved soon and reasonably painlessly.

Or he could run this Keyboard Group Buy through MassDrop    .

Of course it's too late now but it could of saved him all the problems when dealing directly with paypal.  Far better to let MD deal with them personally because they can become difficult due to all the latest government requirements that was set up to prevent funding of extremists overseas.

Nice times to be living in which we the PUBLIC, get shafted by our own governments due to their own inadequacies and dubious foreign policies.

[Ellipse]

No worries Elrick the group buy is ongoing through the project web site and PayPal has not restricted accepting payments.  I am hoping to clear up the matter as soon as possible.

[ApocalypseMaow]

so with another face plate and pcb you could do another layout right???

also is there anyway to get a raw extra case... i've been thinking of getting one hydrocoated...

[Elrick]

No worries Elrick the group buy is ongoing through the project web site and PayPal has not restricted accepting payments.  I am hoping to clear up the matter as soon as possible.

BRILLIANT, what ever you do don't do a "Kin25" here on Geekhack. 

We love you for what you've done thus far and always keep us in the loop but don't ever do a "Drop-bear" on us and change into someone hideous and mistrustful.  Too much of that going around here lately on GH Central.

[Ellipse]

ApocalypseMaow yes you can get the alternate layout with buying the other type of top inner assembly, PCB, and inner foam.  You do not need extra parts of you split your backspace, Enter key, or left shift-those can all be done with your existing parts.

ok Elrick!

[ApocalypseMaow]

ApocalypseMaow yes you can get the alternate layout with buying the other type of top inner assembly, PCB, and inner foam.  You do not need extra parts of you split your backspace, Enter key, or left shift-those can all be done with your existing parts.

ok Elrick!

nice!!! I'll prolly go ahead and throw that on my order too...

what about that unpainted case 

[Ellipse]

I recommend ordering an extra case and having it powdercoated one of the standard colors, and then you can remove the powdercoating (there are some threads on Deskthority about people removing their Kishsaver/4704 keyboard's powdercoating).

An unpainted metal case traveling a few weeks on a cargo ship would probably rust. 

[henz]

For how long will i be able to make  an order?
 

[Ellipse]

Henz you can order as late as 2/29/2016 for the early round.  The regular round runs from 3/1/16 to 6/30/16.  The early round ships in April/May and the regular round ships in August/September.

[cjhard]

I recommend ordering an extra case and having it powdercoated one of the standard colors, and then you can remove the powdercoating (there are some threads on Deskthority about people removing their Kishsaver/4704 keyboard's powdercoating).

An unpainted metal case traveling a few weeks on a cargo ship would probably rust. 

Must be a pretty impressive boat to transmute zinc or aluminum into iron oxide

Zinc is often used as a coating to steel. It's oxidiation process, like aluminum, protects the metals from further corrosion. Zinc will actually oxidize, then react with CO2 to form zinc carbonate.

It should me noted that zinc is a ductile metal, instead of crumbling from an impact or fall, it will break or shatter.

[Muffinbottoms]

I recommend ordering an extra case and having it powdercoated one of the standard colors, and then you can remove the powdercoating (there are some threads on Deskthority about people removing their Kishsaver/4704 keyboard's powdercoating).

An unpainted metal case traveling a few weeks on a cargo ship would probably rust. 

Must be a pretty impressive boat to transmute zinc or aluminum into iron oxide

Zinc is often used as a coating to steel. It's oxidiation process, like aluminum, protects the metals from further corrosion. Zinc will actually oxidize, then react with CO2 to form zinc carbonate.

It should me noted that zinc is a ductile metal, instead of crumbling from an impact or fall, it will break or shatter.

Alchemy my friend does some strange things

[againer]

A rusty keyboard would look reeeeealy vintage
And be a good fit for this Laptop

[Ellipse]

wow - after not even the first week of ordering, almost one-third of those who filled out the interest form have already placed their orders on ModelFkeyboards.com!  We still have the rest of this month to take care of everyone else. 

Has anyone encountered any problems or errors on the project web site?  Does anyone need to pay with a credit card or check and prefers not to go through PayPal.com's guest checkout (no registration required)?  Please let me know and I will look into other options.

As an update I contacted two GH members that ika recommended I contact regarding advice for PayPal and I have contacted a manager at PayPal whom some online project managers said helped them with their own frozen PayPal assets.

ApocalypseMaow - it seems like an unpainted case may not rust if made out of zinc instead of aluminum (I haven't decided on the final case material yet but I hope for zinc!).  So feel free to specify uncoated/unpainted if you decide to order another case.  I can always discuss options with you like cancelling the extra unpainted case or changing it to powdercoated if the factory recommends against it.

I have noticed a lot of people ordering extra F77 and F62 cases.  I guess people want to be able to have both cases before these go out of production.  After that you would need to buy a whole keyboard in another case color to get the alternate color.

Also the black case / black keys is a popular option.  I continue to type on the brand new Industrial F77 prototype and over the past week the springs have loosened up to make them even more more closely comparable with an original Model F.

[aznairjordan]

wow - after not even the first week of ordering, almost one-third of those who filled out the interest form have already placed their orders on ModelFkeyboards.com!  We still have the rest of this month to take care of everyone else. 

Has anyone encountered any problems or errors on the project web site?  Does anyone need to pay with a credit card or check and prefers not to go through PayPal.com's guest checkout (no registration required)?  Please let me know and I will look into other options.

As an update I contacted two GH members that ika recommended I contact regarding advice for PayPal and I have contacted a manager at PayPal whom some online project managers said helped them with their own frozen PayPal assets.

ApocalypseMaow - it seems like an unpainted case may not rust if made out of zinc instead of aluminum (I haven't decided on the final case material yet but I hope for zinc!).  So feel free to specify uncoated/unpainted if you decide to order another case.  I can always discuss options with you like cancelling the extra unpainted case or changing it to powdercoated if the factory recommends against it.

I have noticed a lot of people ordering extra F77 and F62 cases.  I guess people want to be able to have both cases before these go out of production.  After that you would need to buy a whole keyboard in another case color to get the alternate color.

Also the black case / black keys is a popular option.

Hey ellipse. I'm thinking of adding a black case to my order. How would I go about that? Do I just need to pm you?

[HoffmanMyster]

Ellipse, I think it would be best to lock this IC thread and have all future discussion take place in the GB thread.  This split discussion is only causing duplicate conversations and copy-pastes.  Unless there is a reason you are using both still?

[ryahirv]

I'd be in for a small case, anodised would be nice, and I like the sound of removable USB.

Me too. Agree on all this

[ryahirv]

Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).

The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....

..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..

Thanks!

[ryahirv]

@Ellipse:

Quick separate questions: 

1.  Will these boards be recognized by the BIOS to deal with stuff in there?

2.  On the blue Industrial keys - Does Unicomp offer the option to get the top row keys in blue?  (all the numbers)  On an F62/63 HHKB board, it'd be pretty cool to have the top row be blue for differentiation.

3.  How wide are the metal case sections to the immediate left & right of the keys?  I'm trying to get a sense of the spacing on my desk and my mouse area, etc

4.  Sort of related to #3:  Will there be a narrower version of the F77?  I really think I might want arrow keys w/o macros/fn key, but the width of keyboards has become a huge issue for me with my mouse use.  I just can't go wider than TKL's without my elbow hurting from weird angles to reach over to the mouse "way over there"

[riotonthebay]

Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).

The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....

..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..

Thanks!

Splitting the backspace gives you room for one extra key, making it an F63 instead of F62. This means you can have the full normal 62 keys plus Esc. With only 62 keys, you'd normally have to put `~ on the Fn layer. With a split backspace, \| and `~ go where the backspace would be, and backspace lives where \| would be.

There's also the added benefit of having backspace in a slightly more convenient location, given that it's used dramatically more than \|.

And finally, there's a nice aesthetic to the symmetry of the split backspace layout.

[ryahirv]

Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).

The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....

..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..

Thanks!

Splitting the backspace gives you room for one extra key, making it an F63 instead of F62. This means you can have the full normal 62 keys plus Esc. With only 62 keys, you'd normally have to put `~ on the Fn layer. With a split backspace, \| and `~ go where the backspace would be, and backspace lives where \| would be.

There's also the added benefit of having backspace in a slightly more convenient location, given that it's used dramatically more than \|.

And finally, there's a nice aesthetic to the symmetry of the split backspace layout.

Thank you!

Is there a photo of the HHKB layout with both of the split options installed?

Looking and not finding it....

[riotonthebay]

Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).

The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....

..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..

Thanks!

Splitting the backspace gives you room for one extra key, making it an F63 instead of F62. This means you can have the full normal 62 keys plus Esc. With only 62 keys, you'd normally have to put `~ on the Fn layer. With a split backspace, \| and `~ go where the backspace would be, and backspace lives where \| would be.

There's also the added benefit of having backspace in a slightly more convenient location, given that it's used dramatically more than \|.

And finally, there's a nice aesthetic to the symmetry of the split backspace layout.

Thank you!

Is there a photo of the HHKB layout with both of the split options installed?

Looking and not finding it....

There isn't one – there was only one F62 prototype made, and it didn't have a split backspace. You can however just look at a HHKB and imagine that it's a big buckling spring keyboard made of metal (with some extra keys at the bottom)

[ryahirv]

Can someone familiar with the HHKB explain why I might want the Split Backspace in addition to the Split Shift (which is obviously to accommodate the Fn key that's heavily used).

The only think I really used on my RealForce from the right is the arrow keys, and not really that heavily, so I'm thinking of going with the F62 in HHKB layout so I can have arrow key use when needed through Fn key....

..But the split backspace I'm not sure what I would want of why..

Thanks!

Splitting the backspace gives you room for one extra key, making it an F63 instead of F62. This means you can have the full normal 62 keys plus Esc. With only 62 keys, you'd normally have to put `~ on the Fn layer. With a split backspace, \| and `~ go where the backspace would be, and backspace lives where \| would be.

There's also the added benefit of having backspace in a slightly more convenient location, given that it's used dramatically more than \|.

And finally, there's a nice aesthetic to the symmetry of the split backspace layout.

Thank you!

Is there a photo of the HHKB layout with both of the split options installed?

Looking and not finding it....

There isn't one – there was only one F62 prototype made, and it didn't have a split backspace. You can however just look at a HHKB and imagine that it's a big buckling spring keyboard made of metal (with some extra keys at the bottom)

So if looking at the HHKB layout pictures, I would imagine a small backspace key in the top right then?

[0100010]

So if looking at the HHKB layout pictures, I would imagine a small backspace key in the top right then?

Think something like this :
http://tinyurl.com/zsexcrz

[Ellipse]

aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.

ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.

Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp.  To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).

The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right.  The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides.  I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.

Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.

For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.

A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion.  I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.

[ryahirv]

aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.

ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.

Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp.  To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).

The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right.  The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides.  I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.

Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.

For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.

A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion.  I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.

@Ellipse:

Do you think the smaller f62 & f77 are both happening?
I'd honestly be happy to still do my early bird $100 to help out and wait for the smaller case version options if they are for sure happening.

For me the elbow/mouse/ergonomic thing is totally real and narrower "bezels" around my keyboards (and thus not as wide overall) are absolutely awesome & a real consideration for me at this point in life.

I don't really want to go f62 w/ macro/function key stuff as I don't know if I'd like it for sure.  Maybe it'd be awesome...I just don't know as I've never tried it (with an HHKB or anything) 

The narrowest possible f77 certainly sounds right up my alley (again...if it's happening at some point)

Right now I use a RealForce 87U and I just can't imagine going back to anything any wider, so if a narrower f77 isn't happening, I guess the f62 (normal or narrow) would be my only options.

[romevi]

aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.

ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.

Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp.  To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).

The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right.  The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides.  I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.

Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.

For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.

A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion.  I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.

@Ellipse:

Do you think the smaller f62 & f77 are both happening?
I'd honestly be happy to still do my early bird $100 to help out and wait for the smaller case version options if they are for sure happening.

For me the elbow/mouse/ergonomic thing is totally real and narrower "bezels" around my keyboards (and thus not as wide overall) are absolutely awesome & a real consideration for me at this point in life.

I don't really want to go f62 w/ macro/function key stuff as I don't know if I'd like it for sure.  Maybe it'd be awesome...I just don't know as I've never tried it (with an HHKB or anything) 

The narrowest possible f77 certainly sounds right up my alley (again...if it's happening at some point)

Right now I use a RealForce 87U and I just can't imagine going back to anything any wider, so if a narrower f77 isn't happening, I guess the f62 (normal or narrow) would be my only options.

I'd expect to see custom cases for this once these are delivered.

[ryahirv]

aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.

ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.

Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp.  To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).

The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right.  The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides.  I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.

Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.

For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.

A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion.  I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.

@Ellipse:

Do you think the smaller f62 & f77 are both happening?
I'd honestly be happy to still do my early bird $100 to help out and wait for the smaller case version options if they are for sure happening.

For me the elbow/mouse/ergonomic thing is totally real and narrower "bezels" around my keyboards (and thus not as wide overall) are absolutely awesome & a real consideration for me at this point in life.

I don't really want to go f62 w/ macro/function key stuff as I don't know if I'd like it for sure.  Maybe it'd be awesome...I just don't know as I've never tried it (with an HHKB or anything) 

The narrowest possible f77 certainly sounds right up my alley (again...if it's happening at some point)

Right now I use a RealForce 87U and I just can't imagine going back to anything any wider, so if a narrower f77 isn't happening, I guess the f62 (normal or narrow) would be my only options.

I'd expect to see custom cases for this once these are delivered.

But don't they require a slightly different internal something also?
I feel like I read that at some point..

i.e.  We wouldn't be able to take one of these original F62/F77 model and just case swap to the smaller bezel options - I think we'd have to order them that way from the get go, no?

[HoffmanMyster]

Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.

Roger that.    Carry on!

[romevi]

aznairjordan feel free to just place another order on ModelFkeyboards.com for the case and choose "local pickup" for shipping so you are not charged twice.

ryahirv - yes these boards are regular USB HID communication and are recognized in my UEFI/bios at least.

Yes you can get custom color 1U printed keys at $1.50 each from Unicomp.  To order on the web site just add 23 units of "other customizations (in $1 increments)" and make a note of what you are looking for (front row of keys in XYZ color with front printing of F1, etc., for example).

The F77 is a little over 16" wide with about 1.25" of case edge on the left and right.  The smaller F77 case would save about 1.5-2 inches in my estimate as some edge is still required for the capacitive PCB traces running on the sides.  I am hoping for a narrower F77 aluminum extruded case.

Hoffman I'd like to keep this thread going for ongoing discussion of Model F keyboard development, including my plans for a smaller aluminum case and other small modifications to the F62/F77 before they ship like colors, bumpers, etc.

For the Group Buy topic I would like that to focus on issues specific to the group buy - for example helping people coordinate proxy shipping and discussing issues related to placing an order and updating their order, and soon checking on their order status.

A lot of people are following the topic in both places, but primarily in this IC thread to continue different topics of discussion.  I will try to keep duplicate posts to a minimum.

@Ellipse:

Do you think the smaller f62 & f77 are both happening?
I'd honestly be happy to still do my early bird $100 to help out and wait for the smaller case version options if they are for sure happening.

For me the elbow/mouse/ergonomic thing is totally real and narrower "bezels" around my keyboards (and thus not as wide overall) are absolutely awesome & a real consideration for me at this point in life.

I don't really want to go f62 w/ macro/function key stuff as I don't know if I'd like it for sure.  Maybe it'd be awesome...I just don't know as I've never tried it (with an HHKB or anything) 

The narrowest possible f77 certainly sounds right up my alley (again...if it's happening at some point)

Right now I use a RealForce 87U and I just can't imagine going back to anything any wider, so if a narrower f77 isn't happening, I guess the f62 (normal or narrow) would be my only options.

I'd expect to see custom cases for this once these are delivered.

But don't they require a slightly different internal something also?
I feel like I read that at some point..

i.e.  We wouldn't be able to take one of these original F62/F77 model and just case swap to the smaller bezel options - I think we'd have to order them that way from the get go, no?

Hmm... I'm not at all certain. It's hard to keep up with this IC, the GB thread, and the thread at deskthority.
However, I'd be interested in the smaller case and all that it entails as well, as I've become accustomed to smaller form factors lately.

[Ellipse]

ryahirv - the smaller cases are happening; it's a matter of when.  With Chinese New Year holiday going on for the next two weeks, prototypes are not likely to be made and received for at least a few weeks from now.  I agree with your preference for the F77.  I like my separate keys like with the SSK!  That's how I set up the F77 prototype I'm still typing on as my main keyboard. 

I expect the smaller cases to be made of three aluminum pieces:  a top bezel, middle piece, and a flat plate to cover the bottom.  I'd imagine they would be attached with screws - does anyone have any suggestions in this area?

romevi what do you mean?  I'm sure the factory can make the smaller cases during March and at the very worst they can air ship them to me.  Seems like we have 20 people interested so far.

ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part.  Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases. 

[ryahirv]

ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part.  Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.

So that's great news!

That sounds like "order the F77 now and get a smaller case and different $20 inner assembly when available", yeah?

May I ask what the projected final width of both the smaller case f77 & f62 would be?

[Ellipse]

Not sure yet on dimensions, maybe about 13 inches by 6 inches for the F62 and 15.5 inches by 6 inches for the F77 smaller case.

Yep you can order the main product now and then order a smaller case and bottom inner assembly when available.  There would be some work involved in switching cases - I hope to make some instructional videos on F77/F62 disassembly/repair in March/April.

[romevi]

ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part.  Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.

Ah, that's great! I wasn't sure and it's getting kind of hard to follow all these threads, but that's fantastic and will definitely order a small case with the main board as well! 

[ryahirv]

ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part.  Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.

Ah, that's great! I wasn't sure and it's getting kind of hard to follow all these threads, but that's fantastic and will definitely order a small case with the main board as well! 

Which you getting?  62 or 77?

[romevi]

ryahirv you only need a different bottom inner assembly, a $20 part.  Everything else can be used for either case. The original bottom inner assembly is too wide to fit the smaller cases.

Ah, that's great! I wasn't sure and it's getting kind of hard to follow all these threads, but that's fantastic and will definitely order a small case with the main board as well! 

Which you getting?  62 or 77?

F77. I feel like the 62 is too close to 60% boards, whereas the F77 is so unique that it's unlike any other board. 

[ryahirv]

@Ellipse

On the f62/63 HHKB layout with both split keys, are you able to confirm what others have said about how that would look?

Trying to get a sense on that one.

I just can't go any wider than my 87u I've decided tonight and so I'm thinking of doing a f62/63 HHKB layout for now and buying an f77 also, once the smaller case is available for that.

[atlas3686]

@Ellipse

On the f62/63 HHKB layout with both split keys, are you able to confirm what others have said about how that would look?

It would look like this, except with the right shift split as in 0100010's pic, stepped "caps lock" style key and 1U key.

Think something like this :

Show Image

[riotonthebay]

Regarding the potential NYC meetup – possibly worth coinciding with this.

[ryahirv]

Would the HHKB layout being a bit less functional on this board than an on an actual HHKB due to the key spacing?

Seems like the HHKB keys are very compactly placed together and thus makes the consistent use of the Fn layer keys less stressful/tedious perhaps?

[Elrick]

Seems like the HHKB keys are very compactly placed together and thus makes the consistent use of the Fn layer keys less stressful/tedious perhaps?

It's only stressful/tedious if you have small, girl-like hands but this keyboard isn't for them, it's for MEN.

[Ellipse]

ryahirv - yes the 2U backspace area keys will look like the original kishsaver with split backspace posted, but also with the split right shift not shown in that original Kishsaver photo.

[Ludovician]

@Ellipse

On the f62/63 HHKB layout with both split keys, are you able to confirm what others have said about how that would look?

Trying to get a sense on that one.

I just can't go any wider than my 87u I've decided tonight and so I'm thinking of doing a f62/63 HHKB layout for now and buying an f77 also, once the smaller case is available for that.

The F62 is approximately the same width as the Realforce 87U.

[ryahirv]

@Ellipse

On the f62/63 HHKB layout with both split keys, are you able to confirm what others have said about how that would look?

Trying to get a sense on that one.

I just can't go any wider than my 87u I've decided tonight and so I'm thinking of doing a f62/63 HHKB layout for now and buying an f77 also, once the smaller case is available for that.

The F62 is approximately the same width as the Realforce 87U.

Right...but without arrow keys (and the other keys above) that I could get on the f77 which is *much* wider than the RealForce until the smaller f77 case comes along

[ctm]

Has the controller for the boards been confirmed yet?

[Elrick]

Right...but without arrow keys (and the other keys above) that I could get on the f77 which is *much* wider than the RealForce until the smaller f77 case comes along

NOOOOOO, don't mince up the F77 keyboard, it's perfect as is.  What the hell is wrong with you, wanting to cut and trim a CLASSIC design down to another plain keyboard  .

The current shape is an authentic Model-F keyboard that is perfect as is, it's like trying to cut down a Shelby Cobra to look like a Mini, absolute travesty on every scale of human understanding  .

Leave it well enough alone because you youngster's will kill yourself when you get older and realize what you have done to something that is sacred and worshiped around the globe as is.  Don't mess with perfection otherwise you shall curse the day you even tried to disfigure such a great piece of DESIGN.

[Ellipse]

ctm it is likely but not 100% that the xwhatsit controller will be used for the production units.