[IC] SP SA Carbon R3

[Argan12345]

Did you really drop the windowed caps for the lock keys? I can't believe it.

[xzaclee]

when can we put our reservations down?

[cijanzen]

when can we put our reservations down?

Probably November 2020

[T0mb3ry]

Update
- Added new kits
Bones Modifiers kit

Bones Numpad kit

Rolling Bones

Ergodox kit

when can we put our reservations down?

Probably November 2020

Exactly. Most probably it will drop in November 2020.

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

The greatest child kit in the history of caps returns

[hottrout]

Really love all of the mats.  Might have to buy one of each.

[Capsy]

Yesssssss bone base

[UggNot]

Some comments on the ergo kit.

First let me say that i understand that this is an SA profile which will not lend itself to the flexibility of a KAT kit, but a fair amount of research has been done recently into what the key layout of an ergo KAT kit should be.

Now my notes on this ergo kit.

1. it may need some extra R3 1.5u keys.  As it is, if you are a user of a boardwalk, sol, zen, mun (or a few other boards i can't think of right now), you will have to use all 4 of the R3 1.5u mods as the bottom row of those boards has 1.5u corners.
2. doesn't the alphas kit come with a 1.5u pipe/backslash key?  that shouldn't have to be in this kit.
3. an r1 1.5u tilde key would be a nice addition for those of us who DON'T put escape on the top row. (I believe it is becoming more common to move it from there)
4. an r3 1.5u enter key would also be very welcome as a number of people replace the quote key with enter. and some people (like me, put enter on the bottom row)
5. an r3 1.5u function/layer key is VERY common in place of caps lock.  (personally i use escape on r3 but i overload it with a layer so function works for me)

You should at least take a look at the KAT ergo guide (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105714.0)  put together by NoPunIn10Did.  He did a lot of research on ergo layouts for that guide.

Another note is that on a number of ergo boards (that are NOT the ergodox) the center columns can be 4 1u keys instead of a 1u and 2x 1.5u vertical keys.  I'd love to see that considered here, but i get it if that's just too many keys, I almost never have those columns in the right profile anyway and they vary a LOT with personal preference.

As for what would make this an ideal ergo set for ME (i use an RGBKB sol and RGBKB sol2):
* add r1 1.5u tilde key (my upper left 1.5u)
* remove r2 1.5u backslash/pipe key
* add r3 1.5u escape key (function or layer would do in a pinch)
* add r3 1.5u enter key (my bottom right corner is enter.)
* add an extra r3 1u alt key (i have 2 in my bottom row)
* add an r3 1u delete key (i have one on my bottom row)
* add an r3 blank or 2 for really bizarre layouts (my bottom row has an extra .> key which i don't expect ANY keyset to match)

and in my DREAM set, there would be an R1 1u print screen, R2 1u F5 key, R2 1u pause/break key, R3 Insert key, and R4 delete key, in addition to the notes from above.

I'm not sure about usage of the upper keys on the thumb cluster of an ergodox as i haven't used one, but is it common for the thumb clusters to BOTH have ctrl and alt?  Also, does the top row of those clusters need to be R2?  If it was R3 there would be a lot more flexibility in the kit.

If you've read this far I'd also like to say that since before i got my first keyset, SA Carbon has been one of the sets that interested me the most, and i've always particularly liked how it looks on ergo boards.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.

[Morgan3Wheeler]

Could you add R4 2U'shift' for 60% with Arrow?

[blutoin]

really love the bone kits，I'm in ！

[gaustin]

Thank you so much for the bone kits! Seriously. So excited.

[Preußens Gloria]

Could you consider adding a NorDe kit similar to the one offered in SA Skywriter?




I understand you are apprehensive because of the history of NorDe and ISO kits not hitting MOQ. I ask because SA Skywriter had a smaller following than SA Carbon, yet this kit hit MOQ naturally. This kit drops the tertiary legends many international layouts have for a smaller, cheaper kit. I think this strikes a good balance between providing international support and making a kit that can reasonably be expected to hit MOQ.

I also happen to think losing tertiary legends is more aesthetically pleasing on SA keycaps. They are too cluttered otherwise.

Credit to cijanzen for the kit. I claim no ownership, but I love your work!

[pcire]

Thanks for adding the Bone kits!

[Gimbal]

Could you consider adding a NorDe kit similar to the one offered in SA Skywriter?

Show Image

I understand you are apprehensive because of the history of NorDe and ISO kits not hitting MOQ. I ask because SA Skywriter had a smaller following than SA Carbon, yet this kit hit MOQ naturally. This kit drops the tertiary legends many international layouts have for a smaller, cheaper kit. I think this strikes a good balance between providing international support and making a kit that can reasonably be expected to hit MOQ.

I also happen to think losing tertiary legends is more aesthetically pleasing on SA keycaps. They are too cluttered otherwise. :)

Credit to cijanzen for the kit. I claim no ownership, but I love your work!

Yes pretty PLEASE!

Especially now that the bone modifiers are in.
Light Alphas and Bone modifiers in SA are on top of my most wanted kits list. But I do need the Norde kit for a complete keyboard. It would be beautiful.

[T0mb3ry]

Some comments on the ergo kit.

First let me say that i understand that this is an SA profile which will not lend itself to the flexibility of a KAT kit, but a fair amount of research has been done recently into what the key layout of an ergo KAT kit should be.

Now my notes on this ergo kit.

1. it may need some extra R3 1.5u keys.  As it is, if you are a user of a boardwalk, sol, zen, mun (or a few other boards i can't think of right now), you will have to use all 4 of the R3 1.5u mods as the bottom row of those boards has 1.5u corners.
2. doesn't the alphas kit come with a 1.5u pipe/backslash key?  that shouldn't have to be in this kit.
3. an r1 1.5u tilde key would be a nice addition for those of us who DON'T put escape on the top row. (I believe it is becoming more common to move it from there)
4. an r3 1.5u enter key would also be very welcome as a number of people replace the quote key with enter. and some people (like me, put enter on the bottom row)
5. an r3 1.5u function/layer key is VERY common in place of caps lock.  (personally i use escape on r3 but i overload it with a layer so function works for me)

You should at least take a look at the KAT ergo guide (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105714.0)  put together by NoPunIn10Did.  He did a lot of research on ergo layouts for that guide.

Another note is that on a number of ergo boards (that are NOT the ergodox) the center columns can be 4 1u keys instead of a 1u and 2x 1.5u vertical keys.  I'd love to see that considered here, but i get it if that's just too many keys, I almost never have those columns in the right profile anyway and they vary a LOT with personal preference.

As for what would make this an ideal ergo set for ME (i use an RGBKB sol and RGBKB sol2):
* add r1 1.5u tilde key (my upper left 1.5u)
* remove r2 1.5u backslash/pipe key
* add r3 1.5u escape key (function or layer would do in a pinch)
* add r3 1.5u enter key (my bottom right corner is enter.)
* add an extra r3 1u alt key (i have 2 in my bottom row)
* add an r3 1u delete key (i have one on my bottom row)
* add an r3 blank or 2 for really bizarre layouts (my bottom row has an extra .> key which i don't expect ANY keyset to match)

and in my DREAM set, there would be an R1 1u print screen, R2 1u F5 key, R2 1u pause/break key, R3 Insert key, and R4 delete key, in addition to the notes from above.

I'm not sure about usage of the upper keys on the thumb cluster of an ergodox as i haven't used one, but is it common for the thumb clusters to BOTH have ctrl and alt?  Also, does the top row of those clusters need to be R2?  If it was R3 there would be a lot more flexibility in the kit.

If you've read this far I'd also like to say that since before i got my first keyset, SA Carbon has been one of the sets that interested me the most, and i've always particularly liked how it looks on ergo boards.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.

I will replace the R2 1.5u |\ key with {[ .
For all other points i can not support that. If everyone starts to come with their special layout then its a never ending story. I can only support the default layout (from Infinity Ergodox) with little bit variations which are already included. As alternative you can always use keys from Novelties or Rolling Bones as any key.

[violeaf]

Any chance of considering a novelty ISO enter?

[UggNot]

Some comments on the ergo kit.
[...]

I will replace the R2 1.5u |\ key with {[ .
For all other points i can not support that. If everyone starts to come with their special layout then its a never ending story. I can only support the default layout (from Infinity Ergodox) with little bit variations which are already included. As alternative you can always use keys from Novelties or Rolling Bones as any key.

This is fair, the only other consideration I would ask for with this in mind is an R1 1.5u novelty or blank In one of the sets. R1 is the only row I can’t get an alternative to the legends provided.  Alternately include the tilde character as 1.5u in that top row 

[MKUltraCorp]

Some comments on the ergo kit.

First let me say that i understand that this is an SA profile which will not lend itself to the flexibility of a KAT kit, but a fair amount of research has been done recently into what the key layout of an ergo KAT kit should be.

Now my notes on this ergo kit.

1. it may need some extra R3 1.5u keys.  As it is, if you are a user of a boardwalk, sol, zen, mun (or a few other boards i can't think of right now), you will have to use all 4 of the R3 1.5u mods as the bottom row of those boards has 1.5u corners.
2. doesn't the alphas kit come with a 1.5u pipe/backslash key?  that shouldn't have to be in this kit.
3. an r1 1.5u tilde key would be a nice addition for those of us who DON'T put escape on the top row. (I believe it is becoming more common to move it from there)
4. an r3 1.5u enter key would also be very welcome as a number of people replace the quote key with enter. and some people (like me, put enter on the bottom row)
5. an r3 1.5u function/layer key is VERY common in place of caps lock.  (personally i use escape on r3 but i overload it with a layer so function works for me)

You should at least take a look at the KAT ergo guide (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105714.0)  put together by NoPunIn10Did.  He did a lot of research on ergo layouts for that guide.

Another note is that on a number of ergo boards (that are NOT the ergodox) the center columns can be 4 1u keys instead of a 1u and 2x 1.5u vertical keys.  I'd love to see that considered here, but i get it if that's just too many keys, I almost never have those columns in the right profile anyway and they vary a LOT with personal preference.

As for what would make this an ideal ergo set for ME (i use an RGBKB sol and RGBKB sol2):
* add r1 1.5u tilde key (my upper left 1.5u)
* remove r2 1.5u backslash/pipe key
* add r3 1.5u escape key (function or layer would do in a pinch)
* add r3 1.5u enter key (my bottom right corner is enter.)
* add an extra r3 1u alt key (i have 2 in my bottom row)
* add an r3 1u delete key (i have one on my bottom row)
* add an r3 blank or 2 for really bizarre layouts (my bottom row has an extra .> key which i don't expect ANY keyset to match)

and in my DREAM set, there would be an R1 1u print screen, R2 1u F5 key, R2 1u pause/break key, R3 Insert key, and R4 delete key, in addition to the notes from above.

I'm not sure about usage of the upper keys on the thumb cluster of an ergodox as i haven't used one, but is it common for the thumb clusters to BOTH have ctrl and alt?  Also, does the top row of those clusters need to be R2?  If it was R3 there would be a lot more flexibility in the kit.

If you've read this far I'd also like to say that since before i got my first keyset, SA Carbon has been one of the sets that interested me the most, and i've always particularly liked how it looks on ergo boards.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.

I will replace the R2 1.5u |\ key with {[ .
For all other points i can not support that. If everyone starts to come with their special layout then its a never ending story. I can only support the default layout (from Infinity Ergodox) with little bit variations which are already included. As alternative you can always use keys from Novelties or Rolling Bones as any key.

I fully support all of Uggnot's thorough explanation of why the 'classic' ergo kit is no longer viable in today's ergo environment. Ergodox is no longer the primary target for ergo kits - keyboards like Boardwalk (over 500 sold w/another 600 on order), upcoming Boardrun (400 PCBs on order), Sol/Zen/Pan/Mun (hundreds sold) are your primary customers for these kits. Do some polling or, reference polls that have already been done by others.



If designers continue to ignore this quickly growing subset of the community, they will be (and have been) forced to make their own versions to fill the void. Nobody owns colors.

[T0mb3ry]

Update
Ergodox kit
- Replaced legends on R2 1.5u from |\ to {[

ISO UK
- Added Bones compatibility keys

[LXVRGS]

If designers continue to ignore this quickly growing subset of the community, they will be (and have been) forced to make their own versions to fill the void. Nobody owns colors.

thinly veiled threats of ripping off peoples work is an interesting business tactic, dont you need to be catching up on orders or something.

[IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES]

If a vendor continues to ignore this quickly growing subset of the community, they will be (and have been) forced to make their own versions of foam that actually ship to customers

[Vizir]

@LXVRGS @IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES please stay out of this thread if you cannot keep it civil. Your personal attacks have no place here.

@Tomb3ry thank you for adding and then modifying the ergo set when Uggnot posted some suggestions. If you take anything away from mkultra's post, let it be that ergo layout is now outdated since a lot more ergo keebs are out which need a few extra keycaps. He is just telling you that there are LOTS of these users out there and there is a void in the offering. He is merely warning you to not let someone else take this as an opportunity.

KAT designers have enthusiastically started supporting these layouts. And if you check, even Matt3o added support for them with the last run of mt3 /dev/tty. You can also look at the sales numbers of various KAT kits as a reference.

Do not let some toxic members derail the conversation here.

Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[jorgenslee]

Update
- Added new kits
Bones Modifiers kit

Show Image

Bones Numpad kit

Show Image

Rolling Bones

Show Image

Ergodox kit

Show Image

when can we put our reservations down?

Probably November 2020

Exactly. Most probably it will drop in November 2020.

Can you add an extra R2 TAB in the modifier kit? The modifier kit can support TKL and HHKB layout which could be a plus for users who use both layout or for those looking to split it to their friends.

[T0mb3ry]

Update
- Added new kits
Bones Modifiers kit

Show Image

Bones Numpad kit

Show Image

Rolling Bones

Show Image

Ergodox kit

Show Image

when can we put our reservations down?

Probably November 2020

Exactly. Most probably it will drop in November 2020.

Can you add an extra R2 TAB in the modifier kit? The modifier kit can support TKL and HHKB layout which could be a plus for users who use both layout or for those looking to split it to their friends.

Maybe in some sort of extra kit. Otherwise people will be forced to buy two tab keys and that will rise many questions during GB.

[T0mb3ry]

Update
Ergodox kit
has been changed to assembly style which is more versatile and cost effective.

[Vizir]

Update
Ergodox kit
has been changed to assembly style which is more versatile and cost effective.

Show Image

This makes a lot of layouts a lot easier!

Can you please add 2x 1.5u R3 for the bottom row outermost columns? Oblotzkys oblivion set had the same issue.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[T0mb3ry]

Update
Ergodox kit
has been changed to assembly style which is more versatile and cost effective.

Show Image

This makes a lot of layouts a lot easier!

Can you please add 2x 1.5u R3 for the bottom row outermost columns? Oblotzkys oblivion set had the same issue.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Yeah I thought about it already and will look into it.

[konstantin]

Maybe in some sort of extra kit. Otherwise people will be forced to buy two tab keys and that will rise many questions during GB.

An extras kit like in GMK Yuri R2 would be nice to see.

[MKUltraCorp]

Update
Ergodox kit
has been changed to assembly style which is more versatile and cost effective.

Show Image

This solution solves a lot of issues, thank you for looking into it and making adjustments - a lot of ergo customers will be happy to see this flexibility.

The only thing it could use are those bottom row R3 1.5u keys as well as some solution for middle column 1u keys. Not everyone uses vertical 1.5u on their middle columns and some ergo boards flat out don't support it - hotswap Boardwalk (releasing this week) is 1u only for example, as well as others.

I appreciate you taking the time to dig into a layout I'm guessing you don't use and have to rely on feedback to get right. We just want to make sure designers are aware that the ergo landscape is and has been changing, and the old 'classic' layout is no longer sufficient to meet the needs of current trends and usage. What you do with that information is up to you, so thank you for listening.

[jmg123]

Update
Ergodox kit
- Replaced legends on R2 1.5u from |\ to {[

Show Image

ISO UK
- Added Bones compatibility keys

Show Image

Thank you for the proper uk ISO support (my wallet does not thank you, as now I will be forcing it to pay for bones as well)

[nhtrung0607]

I would really appreciate if you can add  "Page Up" R3 for the modifer kits just like in Round 2. Thanks alot.

[T0mb3ry]

Update

GB will probably happen in October
Basically next month.

Bones Modifiers kit
- Added three bones alpha accents. Since Bones modifiers has less keys than other two modifier kits, this will make its pricing more even.


Ergodox kit
- Added two 1.5u R3 LOOP keys.


Xtra kit
- Introduction

[konstantin]

Xtra kit
- Introduction

Show Image

Lovely, thanks!

[nethowler]

Super excited for this.  Any idea on price?

[nhtrung0607]

Update

GB will probably happen in October
Basically next month.

Bones Modifiers kit
- Added three bones alpha accents. Since Bones modifiers has less keys than other two modifier kits, this will make its pricing more even.

Show Image

Ergodox kit
- Added two 1.5u R3 LOOP keys.

Show Image

Xtra kit
- Introduction

Show Image

Thanks alot for the extra kit. Can't wait for the GB.

[Gimbal]

Now that the GB has grown to include loads of special kits why not also add a small NorDe kit, perhaps one identical to SA Skyriter as Preussens Gloria suggested?

I promise, this is the last time I ask for it. 

[aterix]

Sign me up!
I honestly can't find a better looking set of caps.

[smoochara]

Made an account here just to say that I also find this to be the best looking keycap set overall and cant wait to buy it!

Anyone with experience from R1/R2 has any input on best case color pairing with this set?

I got black keeb so far but will be expanding in the future. White would be another safe choice I guess, and orange could work but could be weird if not color matched to caps well. Any other case colors that really pop with this?   

[T0mb3ry]

Kits are finalized!

We are looking right now for the optimal pricing. Thus the kits are finalized and there will be no changed unless we'll encounter some errors in the kit constellation.

As i said previously the GB will happen during this October.

[aterix]

Wooo! Go T0mb3ry!
Looking forward to finally using these timeless classics.

[ChrisJoy]

Wooo! Go T0mb3ry!
Looking forward to finally using these timeless classics.

Great! Look forward to it badly!!!

[aterix]

Update
- Added new kits
Bones Modifiers kit

Show Image

Bones Numpad kit

Show Image

Rolling Bones

Show Image

Ergodox kit

Show Image

when can we put our reservations down?

Probably November 2020

Exactly. Most probably it will drop in November 2020.

Would you ever consider making these in a low profile cap format?

[T0mb3ry]

Would you ever consider making these in a low profile cap format?

I am only interested in Cherry profile made by GMK. Someday there will be another round for GMK Carbon. I don't have interest for other profiles.

[BachNgocLaoHo]

Would you ever consider making these in a low profile cap format?

I am only interested in Cherry profile made by GMK. Someday there will be another round for GMK Carbon. I don't have interest for other profiles.

I really really love SA SP Carbon from you - Mr T0mb3ry. Currently, I am collecting a full set of Carbon round 2, which is missing flex kit and number row kit. I see that round 3 does not include these two kits. Can you review and add these two kits, I am willing to pay for that, everyone will agree with me on this !! plz

[aterix]

T0mb3ry has explained why he's not doing a full set.
Personally, the sets he is making fill much more than my needs.

What is specifically missing that you need, or do you just want to have more keys in your key museum?

[BachNgocLaoHo]

T0mb3ry has explained why he's not doing a full set.
Personally, the sets he is making fill much more than my needs.

What is specifically missing that you need, or do you just want to have more keys in your key museum?

I really like to put the kits together. This will create visual effects - the inspiration at work for me.

[Vizir]

T0mb3ry has explained why he's not doing a full set.
Personally, the sets he is making fill much more than my needs.

What is specifically missing that you need, or do you just want to have more keys in your key museum?

I really like to put the kits together. This will create visual effects - the inspiration at work for me.

I can't claim to understand genius or inspiration but that makes little sense here in business terms. Not that I want to belittle you, perhaps you are looking for inspiration in the wrong area.

Or, perhaps, you might want to explain in other words? I can see that english isn't your native tongue...

[BachNgocLaoHo]

T0mb3ry has explained why he's not doing a full set.
Personally, the sets he is making fill much more than my needs.

What is specifically missing that you need, or do you just want to have more keys in your key museum?

I really like to put the kits together. This will create visual effects - the inspiration at work for me.

I can't claim to understand genius or inspiration but that makes little sense here in business terms. Not that I want to belittle you, perhaps you are looking for inspiration in the wrong area.

Or, perhaps, you might want to explain in other words? I can see that english isn't your native tongue...

Yes, my english is not good, can not to explain clearly what i mean. But SA Carbon always is my favourite keyset. I like to collect all kits possibly, then mix them, waiting to look at them when going to office.

[T0mb3ry]

I really really love SA SP Carbon from you - Mr T0mb3ry. Currently, I am collecting a full set of Carbon round 2, which is missing flex kit and number row kit. I see that round 3 does not include these two kits. Can you review and add these two kits, I am willing to pay for that, everyone will agree with me on this !! plz

Hello,

this IC is open since July and there was plenty of time to make suggestions. Right now the kits are final and will stay as they are. We requested already the quotes and are preparing for the gb.

Also as i understand you want that kit in order to complete your R2 Carbon and thus i like to quote myself where i explain - why its better to get original R2 kits.

Important Info
The colors will stay the same.
However if someone wants to mix R2 with R3, when one should be aware of possible shade differences which might happen - because SPs plastic supplier is notorious for inconsistency from batch to batch. As example see SP SA Strong Spirit, which was made from different plastic batches and has noticeable shade differences. As another example my alphas from Carbon R1 and R2 differ slightly in shade too. Because of this i specifically pointed out for Yuri to make it from one single plastic batch and did not introduced glorious keys for other existing SP SA sets.
So it should be avoided to mix keys from R2 and R3 with the same base color. For example mixing R2 mods with R3 mods. But things like mixing Alphas/Dual Alphas from R3 with Mods from R2 should work just fine. Anyway i highly suggest for someone who is missing a kit from R2 to search for it on mechmarket. AFAIK finding most of the R2 kits on mechmarket should not be a problem.

[BachNgocLaoHo]

I really really love SA SP Carbon from you - Mr T0mb3ry. Currently, I am collecting a full set of Carbon round 2, which is missing flex kit and number row kit. I see that round 3 does not include these two kits. Can you review and add these two kits, I am willing to pay for that, everyone will agree with me on this !! plz

Hello,

this IC is open since July and there was plenty of time to make suggestions. Right now the kits are final and will stay as they are. We requested already the quotes and are preparing for the gb.

Also as i understand you want that kit in order to complete your R2 Carbon and thus i like to quote myself where i explain - why its better to get original R2 kits.

Important Info
The colors will stay the same.
However if someone wants to mix R2 with R3, when one should be aware of possible shade differences which might happen - because SPs plastic supplier is notorious for inconsistency from batch to batch. As example see SP SA Strong Spirit, which was made from different plastic batches and has noticeable shade differences. As another example my alphas from Carbon R1 and R2 differ slightly in shade too. Because of this i specifically pointed out for Yuri to make it from one single plastic batch and did not introduced glorious keys for other existing SP SA sets.
So it should be avoided to mix keys from R2 and R3 with the same base color. For example mixing R2 mods with R3 mods. But things like mixing Alphas/Dual Alphas from R3 with Mods from R2 should work just fine. Anyway i highly suggest for someone who is missing a kit from R2 to search for it on mechmarket. AFAIK finding most of the R2 kits on mechmarket should not be a problem.

Thank you Sir!