Author Topic: NOW OPEN SOURCE!!! swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]  (Read 3052552 times)

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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #800 on: Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:01:36 »
I have been a bit MIA on my tool recently.  I just implemented the 'cleanup' operation that should actually get rid of all of the 'internal server errors' (well unless its is a real problem).  Let me know if you have any issues at all in the next little while.  This fix is a little hard to test without it actually having to do some of the cleanup, so even though its a bit out of character, I have launched something that is not fully tested.  :P

Offline evangs

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #801 on: Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:04:57 »
I have been a bit MIA on my tool recently.  I just implemented the 'cleanup' operation that should actually get rid of all of the 'internal server errors' (well unless its is a real problem).  Let me know if you have any issues at all in the next little while.  This fix is a little hard to test without it actually having to do some of the cleanup, so even though its a bit out of character, I have launched something that is not fully tested.  :P

I just ran it like 6 times, good so far.  will let you know if I see anything weird

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #802 on: Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:13:21 »
I have been a bit MIA on my tool recently.  I just implemented the 'cleanup' operation that should actually get rid of all of the 'internal server errors' (well unless its is a real problem).  Let me know if you have any issues at all in the next little while.  This fix is a little hard to test without it actually having to do some of the cleanup, so even though its a bit out of character, I have launched something that is not fully tested.  :P

I just ran it like 6 times, good so far.  will let you know if I see anything weird

If there is an error it won't be for a while.  The error would be part of the cleanup code.  I have used the cleanup code already, so I just tweaked it, so it should be fine...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #803 on: Fri, 13 March 2015, 17:41:53 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Offline SaiZn

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #804 on: Fri, 13 March 2015, 21:10:36 »
I got a plate made for my FC660M with proper spacebar stabilizer spacing using this and ordered it from BBS. I just received it and I chose the raw finish so I still need to sand it.
93992-0
I tried placing a switch in it and it fits perfectly. :thumb:
Now I need to replace the existing plate with it and find a straight 6.25u wire for the stabilizer. I will probably make a sandwich case for this to match the Z-pad that Kaliet is making for me.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 March 2015, 21:12:10 by SaiZn »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #805 on: Fri, 13 March 2015, 21:18:21 »
I got a plate made for my FC660M with proper spacebar stabilizer spacing using this and ordered it from BBS. I just received it and I chose the raw finish so I still need to sand it.
(Attachment Link)
I tried placing a switch in it and it fits perfectly. :thumb:
Now I need to replace the existing plate with it and find a straight 6.25u wire for the stabilizer. I will probably make a sandwich case for this to match the Z-pad that Kaliet is making for me.
Cool. Thanks for sharing. That looks great.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #806 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 16:08:35 »
Alright, bit of a substantial update today.  I had some time last night and this afternoon to work on the tool, so I added support for the 60% Poker case.  The holes in the plate are designed to let the whole screw pass through, so this plate will require a PCB to be used.

The dimensions and hole layout is largely taken from the GH60 drawings.  I made a couple small adjustments based on some measurements of a Hammer case and using a caliper on a Vortex cast aluminum case.

Without further ado, some screenshots...

94108-0

94110-1

94112-2

94114-3

Offline phishy

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #807 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 21:07:28 »
Turns out sourcing the parts and hand wiring the keyboard was the easy part...trying to make sense of any of these firmware options and how they work is making my head spin O.o

Offline p3lim

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #808 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 21:11:19 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Here is the plate jdcarpe made me for my keyboard, it features mounting points for the poker II case with a hole diameter that doesn't require you to have a PCB, only 10mm M2 standoffs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6676pdEI0GUbTk4dzlveEMzMzg/view?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 March 2015, 21:14:09 by p3lim »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #809 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 21:30:38 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Here is the plate jdcarpe made me for my keyboard, it features mounting points for the poker II case with a hole diameter that doesn't require you to have a PCB, only 10mm M2 standoffs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6676pdEI0GUbTk4dzlveEMzMzg/view?usp=sharing
I was thinking of making the hole resizeable, but I was not confident enough in the hole locations to let people get too tight a tolerance yet. I have implemented it in a way that I can almost flip a switch and have the holes resizeable though.

Once I get more of a consensus on the hole locations, I will make it possible to modify the hole sizes.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #810 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 22:19:16 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Here is the plate jdcarpe made me for my keyboard, it features mounting points for the poker II case with a hole diameter that doesn't require you to have a PCB, only 10mm M2 standoffs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6676pdEI0GUbTk4dzlveEMzMzg/view?usp=sharing

I just checked now close that drawing was to mine.  It is pretty close.  My centers are basically within .4mm everywhere.  There is one measurement that is .6mm different and a lot that are exactly the same.  With this info I will revisit my poker case with a caliper and see if I can tighten up the tolerances a little bit more no my drawing.  It will work perfectly fine as it is right now, but I will tighten it up a bit before I make the holes resizeable.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #811 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 22:27:56 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Here is the plate jdcarpe made me for my keyboard, it features mounting points for the poker II case with a hole diameter that doesn't require you to have a PCB, only 10mm M2 standoffs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6676pdEI0GUbTk4dzlveEMzMzg/view?usp=sharing

I just checked now close that drawing was to mine.  It is pretty close.  My centers are basically within .4mm everywhere.  There is one measurement that is .6mm different and a lot that are exactly the same.  With this info I will revisit my poker case with a caliper and see if I can tighten up the tolerances a little bit more no my drawing.  It will work perfectly fine as it is right now, but I will tighten it up a bit before I make the holes resizeable.

I have a more recent plate drawing with those dimensions even more nailed down, I think. I was bored one day at work. :)

Anyway, that drawing is on my drive at work, but I'll get you those dimensions on Monday, and you can check them with your cases.
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Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #812 on: Sat, 14 March 2015, 23:17:40 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Here is the plate jdcarpe made me for my keyboard, it features mounting points for the poker II case with a hole diameter that doesn't require you to have a PCB, only 10mm M2 standoffs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6676pdEI0GUbTk4dzlveEMzMzg/view?usp=sharing

I just checked now close that drawing was to mine.  It is pretty close.  My centers are basically within .4mm everywhere.  There is one measurement that is .6mm different and a lot that are exactly the same.  With this info I will revisit my poker case with a caliper and see if I can tighten up the tolerances a little bit more no my drawing.  It will work perfectly fine as it is right now, but I will tighten it up a bit before I make the holes resizeable.

I have a more recent plate drawing with those dimensions even more nailed down, I think. I was bored one day at work. :)

Anyway, that drawing is on my drive at work, but I'll get you those dimensions on Monday, and you can check them with your cases.

Awesome, thanks dude.  :)  I think this, with dynamic hole sizes, is going to be pretty helpful for people.  I think a lot of people are trying to do something cool with the 60 layout.  Having Poker compatible plates will really reduce the cost of prototyping if you already have a poker case.

Offline kakakowie

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #813 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 00:03:06 »
I keep getting internal server errors. I hope this is not a problem with my layout?

Any idea how I can solve this?

Offline derezzed

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #814 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 01:45:36 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Here is the plate jdcarpe made me for my keyboard, it features mounting points for the poker II case with a hole diameter that doesn't require you to have a PCB, only 10mm M2 standoffs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6676pdEI0GUbTk4dzlveEMzMzg/view?usp=sharing
I was thinking of making the hole resizeable, but I was not confident enough in the hole locations to let people get too tight a tolerance yet. I have implemented it in a way that I can almost flip a switch and have the holes resizeable though.

Once I get more of a consensus on the hole locations, I will make it possible to modify the hole sizes.

This would be awesome.  My plan was to design the plate without screw holes, then put machinist's dye on the mounts in a poker case and drop the plate into the case to mark where the screw holes should be drilled.   It's going to be handwired, so using the poker case layout wouldn't work for me without modifying the file.  I'm trying to modify the plate in LibreCAD but I haven't been successful yet.   If your tool can put screw holes small enough that a PCB is not required into the positions for a universal 60% case, building a case would be as easy as buying a case, a plate, some standoffs, and screws. 

Offline leandre.north

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #815 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 05:14:36 »
Hey! I tried it and got really weird "high top" for ISO 60%. I know the plate shouldn't be that high and I wanted to ask you how I can get a ISO 60 % mount plate that will fit in TEX, poker case.

Offline joey

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #816 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 05:50:17 »
Thanks for the Poker II style plate support!

What thickness of material should you use, so that the plate would sit flush with the top of the case?
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 March 2015, 05:58:13 by joey »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #817 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 08:23:20 »
I keep getting internal server errors. I hope this is not a problem with my layout?

Any idea how I can solve this?
I will check when I have a minute. My cleanup code could be erroring.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #818 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 08:25:34 »
Hey! I tried it and got really weird "high top" for ISO 60%. I know the plate shouldn't be that high and I wanted to ask you how I can get a ISO 60 % mount plate that will fit in TEX, poker case.
Did you forget to remove the {y:1.5} at the start of the first line?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #819 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 08:27:04 »
Starting to work on the 60% poker case since that one probably has the most demand.

I am taking the measurements from here as my source of truth for now: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34959.msg954124#msg954124

If you know of a better resource, please let me know.  I will go with this for now.

Here is the plate jdcarpe made me for my keyboard, it features mounting points for the poker II case with a hole diameter that doesn't require you to have a PCB, only 10mm M2 standoffs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6676pdEI0GUbTk4dzlveEMzMzg/view?usp=sharing
I was thinking of making the hole resizeable, but I was not confident enough in the hole locations to let people get too tight a tolerance yet. I have implemented it in a way that I can almost flip a switch and have the holes resizeable though.

Once I get more of a consensus on the hole locations, I will make it possible to modify the hole sizes.

This would be awesome.  My plan was to design the plate without screw holes, then put machinist's dye on the mounts in a poker case and drop the plate into the case to mark where the screw holes should be drilled.   It's going to be handwired, so using the poker case layout wouldn't work for me without modifying the file.  I'm trying to modify the plate in LibreCAD but I haven't been successful yet.   If your tool can put screw holes small enough that a PCB is not required into the positions for a universal 60% case, building a case would be as easy as buying a case, a plate, some standoffs, and screws.
Yes. I will be adding this for you tomorrow.

Offline kakakowie

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #820 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 08:57:40 »
I keep getting internal server errors. I hope this is not a problem with my layout?

Any idea how I can solve this?
I will check when I have a minute. My cleanup code could be erroring.

I tried a 60% layout and got the same error. The only layout that seemed to work was the GHpad.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #821 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 09:03:27 »
I keep getting internal server errors. I hope this is not a problem with my layout?

Any idea how I can solve this?
I will check when I have a minute. My cleanup code could be erroring.

I tried a 60% layout and got the same error. The only layout that seemed to work was the GHpad.
I won't be able to check for a few hours. I have the baby this morning.

Offline kakakowie

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #822 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 09:05:24 »
I keep getting internal server errors. I hope this is not a problem with my layout?

Any idea how I can solve this?
I will check when I have a minute. My cleanup code could be erroring.

I tried a 60% layout and got the same error. The only layout that seemed to work was the GHpad.
I won't be able to check for a few hours. I have the baby this morning.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to rush you :x

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #823 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 09:42:47 »
I keep getting internal server errors. I hope this is not a problem with my layout?

Any idea how I can solve this?
I will check when I have a minute. My cleanup code could be erroring.

I tried a 60% layout and got the same error. The only layout that seemed to work was the GHpad.
I won't be able to check for a few hours. I have the baby this morning.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to rush you :x
No worries. I need to look into what's going on. :)

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #824 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 13:19:45 »
I keep getting internal server errors. I hope this is not a problem with my layout?

Any idea how I can solve this?
I will check when I have a minute. My cleanup code could be erroring.

I tried a 60% layout and got the same error. The only layout that seemed to work was the GHpad.

Can you send me the raw data you were trying to use?  I am not getting errors right now but I do see errors in the logs, but I am now cleaning up the machines if they don't shut down properly, so I can't ssh into my worker machines to see the errors.  I need to find a way to scp the logs of errored machines to the master so I can review them.

If you can reproduce the error I will track down the issue.  Thx.  :)

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #825 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 14:10:49 »
Alright, everything should be fixed.  I made a bone head mistake when I added the Poker case which actually broke the None option in the case type dropdown.  I fixed it and tested, so we should be all set.  Thanks for the heads up when there are problems guys.  :)

Offline kakakowie

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #826 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 19:57:38 »
Thanks swill. I'm not sure if you added ergodox compatibility but i tried it out heh.

94264-0

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #827 on: Sun, 15 March 2015, 20:50:30 »
Thanks swill. I'm not sure if you added ergodox compatibility but i tried it out heh.

(Attachment Link)
Nope. I don't have support for rotated groups of keys yet. Only the ability to rotate a key around its center for now.

Offline BigBlueSaw

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #828 on: Mon, 16 March 2015, 21:42:44 »
I'm experimenting with different combinations of multi-plate layouts.  So far, the most cost-effective layout I've found is 2 plates.  I'm currently trying 3 plates stacked vertically with 1 plate rotated 90 degrees next to the 3 plates.  In LibreCAD, the plates do not appear to overlap.  When I upload to Big Blue Saw, the 90 degree rotated plate is not rotated and overlaps two of the other plates.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

This is fixed now.

Offline BigBlueSaw

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #829 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 10:50:01 »
Nope. I don't have support for rotated groups of keys yet. Only the ability to rotate a key around its center for now.

There are an infinite number of features you could potentially add, but then you end  up with a CAD tool. It seems to me if you want a rotated group, open up the DXF file in DraftSight or a similar package, and rotate them.

Offline Latin00032

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #830 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 10:55:23 »
Darn! I suck at this.

I'm trying to make a poker plate and I have a big portion left up top.

What kind of radius should I use for the poker plate?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #831 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 11:21:48 »
Darn! I suck at this.

I'm trying to make a poker plate and I have a big portion left up top.

What kind of radius should I use for the poker plate?

This is likely because you still have the {y:1.5} set on your first row because you most likely took the 104 layout and removed the keys, but did not reset the size of the plate.

For example, your plate probably looks like this in the keyboard-layout-editor:
94404-0
(notice the space at the top)

This is because of this in the layout editor:
94406-1

You need to remove that {y:1.5} to get rid of the extra space, like this:
94408-2

Which will result in the following:
94410-3

That will be working...  Does that make sense?  That solve your problem?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #832 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 11:24:48 »
swill, just an idea for you, but maybe you want to make a standard ANSI 125 plate with Poker case holes and 2.5mm radius corners as a standard option, which people could simply download, instead of having your tool draw the same plate over and over again.
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Offline Dihedral

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #833 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 11:31:32 »
swill, just an idea for you, but maybe you want to make a standard ANSI 125 plate with Poker case holes and 2.5mm radius corners as a standard option, which people could simply download, instead of having your tool draw the same plate over and over again.

The server already stores plates that have already been built, but I guess some presets would be useful.

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #834 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 11:41:40 »
swill, just an idea for you, but maybe you want to make a standard ANSI 125 plate with Poker case holes and 2.5mm radius corners as a standard option, which people could simply download, instead of having your tool draw the same plate over and over again.

Yes, I am planning to add the concept of 'presets' and people can just build them.  Right now, if a specific config has been drawn before it will be loaded out of the cache, so it won't redraw it.  That is a good idea though to setup a bunch of presets...

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #835 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 11:43:54 »
Nope. I don't have support for rotated groups of keys yet. Only the ability to rotate a key around its center for now.

There are an infinite number of features you could potentially add, but then you end  up with a CAD tool. It seems to me if you want a rotated group, open up the DXF file in DraftSight or a similar package, and rotate them.

The reason people are asking for it is because there is an ergonomic layout which is pretty common which uses rotated groups of keys.  It is this layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/7ce7576b8c064a2f3db60036cf82c7c9

Offline derezzed

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #836 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 19:50:22 »
swill,  your plate building tool is absolutely phenomenal.  I'm not asking you to change this "feature" I discovered, but I did want to raise awareness to anyone who is planning on using this tool to design a sandwich case.  Choosing any number of screw holes that results in a screw hole being placed on the middle of the edge of the long side of the plate, will result in the screw hole being placed where the USB port cut out is on the open layer of the case.  I've found this to be an issue for cases with 6 holes, 18 holes, and 22 holes.  If the number of screw holes is not a multiple of an odd number, you won't have an issue.  If the number of screws is a multiple of an odd number, you might have an issue. 


Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #837 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 21:12:37 »
swill,  your plate building tool is absolutely phenomenal.  I'm not asking you to change this "feature" I discovered, but I did want to raise awareness to anyone who is planning on using this tool to design a sandwich case.  Choosing any number of screw holes that results in a screw hole being placed on the middle of the edge of the long side of the plate, will result in the screw hole being placed where the USB port cut out is on the open layer of the case.  I've found this to be an issue for cases with 6 holes, 18 holes, and 22 holes.  If the number of screw holes is not a multiple of an odd number, you won't have an issue.  If the number of screws is a multiple of an odd number, you might have an issue. 

(Attachment Link)
Haha. Ya that's a "feature". It allows people to use a screw to hold their USB in place.

Yes, I knew this was possible, but I assumed most people would notice and work around it. It is always a bit tricky when you try to make things really flexible and dynamic because there are more edge cases. Some of these cases could be considered features or bugs, depending on your perspective or creativity. :)

Its worth pointing out though. Thanks for bringing it up because it is a good thing to be aware of.

Offline derezzed

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #838 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 21:44:47 »
swill,  your plate building tool is absolutely phenomenal.  I'm not asking you to change this "feature" I discovered, but I did want to raise awareness to anyone who is planning on using this tool to design a sandwich case.  Choosing any number of screw holes that results in a screw hole being placed on the middle of the edge of the long side of the plate, will result in the screw hole being placed where the USB port cut out is on the open layer of the case.  I've found this to be an issue for cases with 6 holes, 18 holes, and 22 holes.  If the number of screw holes is not a multiple of an odd number, you won't have an issue.  If the number of screws is a multiple of an odd number, you might have an issue. 

(Attachment Link)
Haha. Ya that's a "feature". It allows people to use a screw to hold their USB in place.

That explains it.  The middle hole is for a set screw to lock down the USB port.  It's the perfect solution for hand-wired boards where there's no PCB to solder the port to.  You really did think of everything.    Check and mate.


edit:
Also, as BigBlueSaw previously stated, the issue with the BBS web app rotating parts is solved.  I've found that putting 32 open and closed layers in a single dxf file results in prices between $8 and $9 a unit, depending upon thickness and material ( I tried clear acrylic and clear polycarbonate).  I don't know if this is the optimal number of plates but that's what I used.  Also, there's a lot of wasted space in the closed layer.  If someone was enterprising enough, they could modify their closed layer to include additional cuts (feet or something else) inside the rectangle.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 March 2015, 21:50:37 by derezzed »

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #839 on: Tue, 17 March 2015, 21:48:35 »
swill,  your plate building tool is absolutely phenomenal.  I'm not asking you to change this "feature" I discovered, but I did want to raise awareness to anyone who is planning on using this tool to design a sandwich case.  Choosing any number of screw holes that results in a screw hole being placed on the middle of the edge of the long side of the plate, will result in the screw hole being placed where the USB port cut out is on the open layer of the case.  I've found this to be an issue for cases with 6 holes, 18 holes, and 22 holes.  If the number of screw holes is not a multiple of an odd number, you won't have an issue.  If the number of screws is a multiple of an odd number, you might have an issue. 

(Attachment Link)
Haha. Ya that's a "feature". It allows people to use a screw to hold their USB in place.

That explains it.  The middle hole is for a set screw to lock down the USB port.  It's the perfect solution for hand-wired boards where there's no PCB to solder the port to.  You really did think of everything.    Check and mate.
With this much spin I should be a politician. :)

Offline BigBlueSaw

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #840 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 08:31:59 »
The screws are nice to have, but really,  you could just epoxy or glue the inner layers together and to either the top or the bottom.

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #841 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 09:19:10 »
The screws are nice to have, but really,  you could just epoxy or glue the inner layers together and to either the top or the bottom.

The bottom plate needs to be removeable so screws are usually the best option.  It would suck if you made a mistake in your matrix or you had to desolder something and everything was glued together.  :)

I am probably going to glue together my middle layers though...

Offline VinnyCordeiro

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #842 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 10:04:49 »
The screws are nice to have, but really,  you could just epoxy or glue the inner layers together and to either the top or the bottom.

The bottom plate needs to be removeable so screws are usually the best option.  It would suck if you made a mistake in your matrix or you had to desolder something and everything was glued together.  :)

I am probably going to glue together my middle layers though...
And if you use a keyboard PCB, you may even glue the bottom layer, but the top one still have to be removable.

Offline cmadrid

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #843 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 11:58:51 »
swill,  your plate building tool is absolutely phenomenal.  I'm not asking you to change this "feature" I discovered, but I did want to raise awareness to anyone who is planning on using this tool to design a sandwich case.  Choosing any number of screw holes that results in a screw hole being placed on the middle of the edge of the long side of the plate, will result in the screw hole being placed where the USB port cut out is on the open layer of the case.  I've found this to be an issue for cases with 6 holes, 18 holes, and 22 holes.  If the number of screw holes is not a multiple of an odd number, you won't have an issue.  If the number of screws is a multiple of an odd number, you might have an issue. 

(Attachment Link)
Haha. Ya that's a "feature". It allows people to use a screw to hold their USB in place.

That explains it.  The middle hole is for a set screw to lock down the USB port.  It's the perfect solution for hand-wired boards where there's no PCB to solder the port to.  You really did think of everything.    Check and mate.


edit:
Also, as BigBlueSaw previously stated, the issue with the BBS web app rotating parts is solved.  I've found that putting 32 open and closed layers in a single dxf file results in prices between $8 and $9 a unit, depending upon thickness and material ( I tried clear acrylic and clear polycarbonate).  I don't know if this is the optimal number of plates but that's what I used.  Also, there's a lot of wasted space in the closed layer.  If someone was enterprising enough, they could modify their closed layer to include additional cuts (feet or something else) inside the rectangle.

Group buy.. ;)


*at that kind of price I wouldnt have a problem with a few extra dollars added for group buy handling fees and maybe a give swill some $ fee ;)
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 March 2015, 12:01:27 by cmadrid »

Offline derezzed

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #844 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 19:30:53 »
swill,  your plate building tool is absolutely phenomenal.  I'm not asking you to change this "feature" I discovered, but I did want to raise awareness to anyone who is planning on using this tool to design a sandwich case.  Choosing any number of screw holes that results in a screw hole being placed on the middle of the edge of the long side of the plate, will result in the screw hole being placed where the USB port cut out is on the open layer of the case.  I've found this to be an issue for cases with 6 holes, 18 holes, and 22 holes.  If the number of screw holes is not a multiple of an odd number, you won't have an issue.  If the number of screws is a multiple of an odd number, you might have an issue. 

(Attachment Link)
Haha. Ya that's a "feature". It allows people to use a screw to hold their USB in place.

That explains it.  The middle hole is for a set screw to lock down the USB port.  It's the perfect solution for hand-wired boards where there's no PCB to solder the port to.  You really did think of everything.    Check and mate.


edit:
Also, as BigBlueSaw previously stated, the issue with the BBS web app rotating parts is solved.  I've found that putting 32 open and closed layers in a single dxf file results in prices between $8 and $9 a unit, depending upon thickness and material ( I tried clear acrylic and clear polycarbonate).  I don't know if this is the optimal number of plates but that's what I used.  Also, there's a lot of wasted space in the closed layer.  If someone was enterprising enough, they could modify their closed layer to include additional cuts (feet or something else) inside the rectangle.

Group buy.. ;)


*at that kind of price I wouldnt have a problem with a few extra dollars added for group buy handling fees and maybe a give swill some $ fee ;)

It's tempting.  A dxf file with 20 bottom plates gets an estimate of just over $18 per unit for 3mm stainless steel t-304.  A dxf file with 32 bottom plates gets an estimate of over $17 per unit for 3mm stainless steel t-304.  If the estimates are fairly accurate, you could get 1 3mm stainless steel bottom plate, and  1 4.5 or 6mm open layer and 1 4.5 or 6 mm closed layer in acrylic or polycarbonate, at a price of around $40 per unit when you buy quantities of 20 or more (or even a little less).   Keep in mind, I selected clear acrylic and clear polycarbonate in stock thickness for the middle layers because I could get an immediate price quote from the web app.  If a group wanted different thickness, plastic, or color for the middle layers, they would have to contact BBS for a quote.  Also, the BBS web app can't handle large files.  A dxf file with only 6 switch plates is all the web app can manage.  At that quantity, a single group of 6 1.5mm stainless t-304 switch plates with cut outs to allow in-plate switch opening is $48 per unit.  If BBS can handle a larger file internally, maybe the price would drop significantly.  But at 5 sheets of 6 plates, yielding 30 plates, the price only drops to around $43 dollars per unit.   So, in quantities of 20 (give or take),  a 4 layer case could range between $80 to $90, by my calculations, with the switch layer accounting for roughly half the cost.  Switching to 3.175mm polycarbonate for the switch plate (again, the same design) results in a cost of $34 per unit in quantities of 30 units.  I'm extremely new to this, so I don't know how compelling the price for this is, compared to other available options (60% Tex case for $120, etc.), but for hand-wiring a custom board when you have no PCB, this might be a good price.

For future reference, if a group buy results from a design utilizing swill's tool, and I join the group buy, I would not be opposed to the group charging a little extra to either subsidize buying a case for swill (if he's interested) or just to send swill some cash to thank him for facilitating the design process.
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 March 2015, 19:38:56 by derezzed »

Offline Latin00032

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #845 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 20:00:05 »
Darn! I suck at this.

I'm trying to make a poker plate and I have a big portion left up top.

What kind of radius should I use for the poker plate?

This is likely because you still have the {y:1.5} set on your first row because you most likely took the 104 layout and removed the keys, but did not reset the size of the plate.

For example, your plate probably looks like this in the keyboard-layout-editor:
(Attachment Link)
(notice the space at the top)

This is because of this in the layout editor:
(Attachment Link)

You need to remove that {y:1.5} to get rid of the extra space, like this:
(Attachment Link)

Which will result in the following:
(Attachment Link)

That will be working...  Does that make sense?  That solve your problem?
Ahh! Ok.

I see what I did.

Im getting closer. The only question is what material to use. Also, what is the proper thickness? Can it be too thick?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #846 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 20:02:50 »
Darn! I suck at this.

I'm trying to make a poker plate and I have a big portion left up top.

What kind of radius should I use for the poker plate?

This is likely because you still have the {y:1.5} set on your first row because you most likely took the 104 layout and removed the keys, but did not reset the size of the plate.

For example, your plate probably looks like this in the keyboard-layout-editor:
(Attachment Link)
(notice the space at the top)

This is because of this in the layout editor:
(Attachment Link)

You need to remove that {y:1.5} to get rid of the extra space, like this:
(Attachment Link)

Which will result in the following:
(Attachment Link)

That will be working...  Does that make sense?  That solve your problem?
Ahh! Ok.

I see what I did.

Im getting closer. The only question is what material to use. Also, what is the proper thickness? Can it be too thick?
If you are hand wiring, yes the thickness matters. You need the switches to clip into the plate so it has to be 1.5-1.6mm. If you are using a PCB you can use 5mm and it will fill the space between the PCB and the top.

Offline Latin00032

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #847 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 20:09:39 »
Darn! I suck at this.

I'm trying to make a poker plate and I have a big portion left up top.

What kind of radius should I use for the poker plate?

This is likely because you still have the {y:1.5} set on your first row because you most likely took the 104 layout and removed the keys, but did not reset the size of the plate.

For example, your plate probably looks like this in the keyboard-layout-editor:
(Attachment Link)
(notice the space at the top)

This is because of this in the layout editor:
(Attachment Link)

You need to remove that {y:1.5} to get rid of the extra space, like this:
(Attachment Link)

Which will result in the following:
(Attachment Link)

That will be working...  Does that make sense?  That solve your problem?
Ahh! Ok.

I see what I did.

Im getting closer. The only question is what material to use. Also, what is the proper thickness? Can it be too thick?
If you are hand wiring, yes the thickness matters. You need the switches to clip into the plate so it has to be 1.5-1.6mm. If you are using a PCB you can use 5mm and it will fill the space between the PCB and the top.
If I'm using certain metals for the plate at 5mm for pcb mounting, couldn't that cause a short?

Offline swill

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #848 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 20:33:56 »
Darn! I suck at this.

I'm trying to make a poker plate and I have a big portion left up top.

What kind of radius should I use for the poker plate?

This is likely because you still have the {y:1.5} set on your first row because you most likely took the 104 layout and removed the keys, but did not reset the size of the plate.

For example, your plate probably looks like this in the keyboard-layout-editor:
(Attachment Link)
(notice the space at the top)

This is because of this in the layout editor:
(Attachment Link)

You need to remove that {y:1.5} to get rid of the extra space, like this:
(Attachment Link)

Which will result in the following:
(Attachment Link)

That will be working...  Does that make sense?  That solve your problem?
Ahh! Ok.

I see what I did.

Im getting closer. The only question is what material to use. Also, what is the proper thickness? Can it be too thick?
If you are hand wiring, yes the thickness matters. You need the switches to clip into the plate so it has to be 1.5-1.6mm. If you are using a PCB you can use 5mm and it will fill the space between the PCB and the top.
If I'm using certain metals for the plate at 5mm for pcb mounting, couldn't that cause a short?
If you are using any kind of metal, do 1.5-1.6mm. Don't pay extra for no reason. The reason people use 5mm for anything is because they are using acrylic. Acrylic is cheap, but won't work if it is only 1.5mm because it is not strong enough.

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Re: swill's plate building tool [builder.swillkb.com]
« Reply #849 on: Wed, 18 March 2015, 23:15:16 »
I figure I might as well document this feature now that it may become relevant for people's prototyping.  I actually added this feature a month or so ago at Melvang's request.  The feature is basically the ability to change the size (and shape) of the square switch cutout.  NOTE: This functionality ONLY works on the square cutout shape, the settings will be ignored for all other shape cutouts.

I alluded to this functionality in this post when talking about building a simple and inexpensive lube station out of plastic.

I think this is relevant to the current conversation because it may work out to be the cheapest way to prototype hand wired cases.

So here is the idea.  You have a 1.5mm switch plate laser cut out of acrylic.  We all know that 1.5mm acrylic will never hold as the only support for a keyboard plate.  So we would have to add a supporting layer underneath the switch layer.  I would suggest using something like 3mm acrylic or maybe even something like wood.  Of course, in order to add this layer, the openings have to be bigger than the switch plate so the switches will clip into the 1.5mm switch plate.

To illustrate, the switch plate would be 1.5mm and would look like this:
94528-0

You would then have a support layer with 16mm square holes in, say, 3mm acrylic or wood which would go under the switch layer and would look like:
94530-1

When you put the switch layer on top of the support layer, it would look like this:
94532-2

I suspect we can get some relatively inexpensive prototype cases built this way.  I would be interested in doing it in 100% acrylic and putting my LEDs on the bottom of the switch in a hand wired setup.

Ok, so how does this feature work already?!?  Get to the interesting part...

So if you add a background color to your layout and then look at the raw data, you will see this new object at the top of the raw data:


We are going to piggyback off that object and add our config into that object to change the shape of the square.  In this case we are going to grow the square by 2mm in both width and height resulting in a 16mm square hole, so we would put the following:
Code: [Select]
{backcolor:"#505050",grow_x:2,grow_y:2},
Now the interesting thing here is that you can grow in both a positive or negative direction.  So if you wanted to cut an Alps Only plate and keep it on the cheap, you could do the following:
Code: [Select]
{backcolor:"#505050",grow_x:1.6,grow_y:-1.1},
This would result in the following cutout:
94535-4

I think that is enough for this post.  If you have more questions or would like to discuss the feature more, fire away...