GMK 85|15 groupbuy (CANCELLED)

[bueller]

I don't think many people are too picky about legends, most people are more concerned about colorway above all else.

You are not reading pal.

I can assure you I am. Obviously there's some vocal people in here concerned about the legends but most people will look at the colorway and then wont even bother posting if they don't like the look of it. You're all too picky about legends and minor details anyway, to make GMK MOQ's we need to keep things basic so that the majority are happy and actually place orders. Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.

[Synjin]

I'd be more than happy to revise my order again to include mod packs but I'm still so worried about them hitting MOQ. People need to realize how awesome the pack is hen you want to convert other older sets to a more compatible one.

[nubbinator]

Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.

You hit the nail on the head.  It wouldn't be such an issue if the cap suggestions helped a significant number of people, but most of the time they make things worse.  A lower price brings in more people than adding keys that cater to the 5 people who need them. 

Sure, making sets that help the obscure keyboards is nice, but it seems like for every one or two you add for the obscure caps, you lose 5-10 due to the added cost.

I'm not in on the Ivan mod pack for that reason.  $68 plus shipping, PayPal, and GB fee is too rich for me for the maybe 8-15 caps I'd be using from it.

[ideus]

I don't think many people are too picky about legends, most people are more concerned about colorway above all else.

You are not reading pal.

I can assure you I am. Obviously there's some vocal people in here concerned about the legends but most people will look at the colorway and then wont even bother posting if they don't like the look of it. You're all too picky about legends and minor details anyway, to make GMK MOQ's we need to keep things basic so that the majority are happy and actually place orders. Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.

Just for the record: I do not care about the legends and the colors are OK for me, I think Ivan is the authority regarding what may work for a set like this, so I thrust him entirely. I am against to include in the set too many keys that had bumped the price of the set, in the effort to get one set that may fit all needs, therefore unnecessarily. I have suggested many times to get the main mods set broken into smaller basic sets.

[IvanIvanovich]

I really really really want that base set to fly... so... I guess I will make an extension to help more with people that need additional time to still recovering from holidays spending.
I will also take some hard looks at the sets and see if I can chop some fat to make them cheaper, change a few legends...

[limitz]

Is the MOQ for just GH, or is EnjoyClick included as well? If EC is included in the MOQ numbers, I'd extend until late-Feb as Chinese New Year is 02/19 this year. Hongbao means more to spend on keycaps.

[radio_killah]

Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.

You hit the nail on the head.  It wouldn't be such an issue if the cap suggestions helped a significant number of people, but most of the time they make things worse.  A lower price brings in more people than adding keys that cater to the 5 people who need them. 

Sure, making sets that help the obscure keyboards is nice, but it seems like for every one or two you add for the obscure caps, you lose 5-10 due to the added cost.

I'm not in on the Ivan mod pack for that reason.  $68 plus shipping, PayPal, and GB fee is too rich for me for the maybe 8-15 caps I'd be using from it.

Honestly didn't think about it that way. Good point nub.

[taylordcraig]

Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.

You hit the nail on the head.  It wouldn't be such an issue if the cap suggestions helped a significant number of people, but most of the time they make things worse.  A lower price brings in more people than adding keys that cater to the 5 people who need them. 

Sure, making sets that help the obscure keyboards is nice, but it seems like for every one or two you add for the obscure caps, you lose 5-10 due to the added cost.

I'm not in on the Ivan mod pack for that reason.  $68 plus shipping, PayPal, and GB fee is too rich for me for the maybe 8-15 caps I'd be using from it.

Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.

You hit the nail on the head.  It wouldn't be such an issue if the cap suggestions helped a significant number of people, but most of the time they make things worse.  A lower price brings in more people than adding keys that cater to the 5 people who need them. 

Sure, making sets that help the obscure keyboards is nice, but it seems like for every one or two you add for the obscure caps, you lose 5-10 due to the added cost.

I'm not in on the Ivan mod pack for that reason.  $68 plus shipping, PayPal, and GB fee is too rich for me for the maybe 8-15 caps I'd be using from it.

Honestly didn't think about it that way. Good point nub.

Nubs is partly right. Excessive legends does make it costs more, but the beauty of this pack is that it caters to EVERY keyboard.
That's why so many of us are willing to pick up multiple sets. If you have any black and beige set, this completes it for your JD40/1800 and w/e special layout is hot in our keyboard market right now.
$68+shipping+paypal x3 is still within my price range because of how ****ing complete these sets are.
I URGE everyone to spread this on reddit/DT/KBD/EC and any other community that might be able to alleviate the MOQ.
It's a really great mod pack and as much as I'd kill for the base pack, the mod pack is much more important to me.

[Elrick]

I really really really want that base set to fly... so... I guess I will make an extension to help more with people that need additional time to still recovering from holidays spending.
I will also take some hard looks at the sets and see if I can chop some fat to make them cheaper, change a few legends...

Ivan be careful about editing the sets down to the lowest common denominator, it will then be COMPLETELY boring like buying sets off Taobao only these will still sell for far more.

Remember having a unique key-set is what makes these so desirable and if you reduce their individuality for the sake of making it cheaper, then why bother to buy them in the first place?

[nubbinator]

Nubs is partly right. Excessive legends does make it costs more, but the beauty of this pack is that it caters to EVERY keyboard.
That's why so many of us are willing to pick up multiple sets. If you have any black and beige set, this completes it for your JD40/1800 and w/e special layout is hot in our keyboard market right now.

That's still a minority population.  40% boards make up a small demographic.  Look at the last SP sets with specific 40% sets.  Some weren't able to even make the 10 needed to tip the 40% sets.  If you have people who won't do it with the much cheaper SP, you'll have a hard time convincing me that they make up a substantial part of the population.

You should be catering a set to make things work for the greatest number of people (so custom Koreans, 1.5x bottom row mods, short shifts for Pure/1800 layout, etc.); however, you also need to balance it with the knowledge that people often rationalize decisions by as little as $1.  While there may be a handful of people willing to buy 2-3 sets at ~$75-80 a set once fees and shipping are factored in, there may be a larger portion of the population who will buy one or even 2-3 if that set is a little less specialized and only costs $55-60 shipped per set.

$68+shipping+paypal x3 is still within my price range because of how ****ing complete these sets are.
I URGE everyone to spread this on reddit/DT/KBD/EC and any other community that might be able to alleviate the MOQ.
It's a really great mod pack and as much as I'd kill for the base pack, the mod pack is much more important to me.

Just because it's in your price range doesn't mean it is for everyone or that everyone is willing to spend that much. 

I really really really want that base set to fly... so... I guess I will make an extension to help more with people that need additional time to still recovering from holidays spending.
I will also take some hard looks at the sets and see if I can chop some fat to make them cheaper, change a few legends...

Ivan be careful about editing the sets down to the lowest common denominator, it will then be COMPLETELY boring like buying sets off Taobao only these will still sell for far more.

Remember having a unique key-set is what makes these so desirable and if you reduce their individuality for the sake of making it cheaper, then why bother to buy them in the first place?

WoP was basic, but catered to enough sub-groups to make it successful.  You have to be careful with stuff like this to keep it affordable yet cater to enough people to make it tip.  The more niche you add, the harder it becomes to make the set tip.

[bueller]

You should be catering a set to make things work for the greatest number of people (so custom Koreans, 1.5x bottom row mods, short shifts for Pure/1800 layout, etc.); however, you also need to balance it with the knowledge that people often rationalize decisions by as little as $1.  While there may be a handful of people willing to buy 2-3 sets at ~$75-80 a set once fees and shipping are factored in, there may be a larger portion of the population who will buy one or even 2-3 if that set is a little less specialized and only costs $55-60 shipped per set.

All of this. 99% of boards are taken care of with a Full set, Tsangan and some ISO mods. I appreciate that people want to put these sets on things like JD40, Ergodox etc but at the end of the day those keyboards just aren't common enough to warrant everyone else paying for the extra keys. Perfect example was Originative, when they were actually shipping orders they had no problems selling the Dolch, Classic Beige etc sets because they kept the un-necessary keys to a minimum which kept the price down.

Want awesome custom legends or bizzaro layouts? Then GMK aren't the sets for you.

[renne]

I absolutely love the sets colorway, but couldn't bring myself to order it because of those legends. 

I know they are supposed to fit the theme, but they would drive me crazy.

If Ivan ever re-runs it with modern legends I will for sure order a set or two.

+1

[TBone]

I absolutely love the sets colorway, but couldn't bring myself to order it because of those legends. 

I know they are supposed to fit the theme, but they would drive me crazy.

If Ivan ever re-runs it with modern legends I will for sure order a set or two.

+1

+2

I love the idea, but could never use this set, so right now I can't justify buying it. The mod pack looks amazing, but without alphas in mind or a lower price, I can't justify that either. All the power to you guys though, I'd love to see these things made. Maybe when I'm not on a college student budget I could pick these things up in the classifieds.

[taylordcraig]

Nubs is partly right. Excessive legends does make it costs more, but the beauty of this pack is that it caters to EVERY keyboard.
That's why so many of us are willing to pick up multiple sets. If you have any black and beige set, this completes it for your JD40/1800 and w/e special layout is hot in our keyboard market right now.

That's still a minority population.  40% boards make up a small demographic.  Look at the last SP sets with specific 40% sets.  Some weren't able to even make the 10 needed to tip the 40% sets.  If you have people who won't do it with the much cheaper SP, you'll have a hard time convincing me that they make up a substantial part of the population.

You should be catering a set to make things work for the greatest number of people (so custom Koreans, 1.5x bottom row mods, short shifts for Pure/1800 layout, etc.); however, you also need to balance it with the knowledge that people often rationalize decisions by as little as $1.  While there may be a handful of people willing to buy 2-3 sets at ~$75-80 a set once fees and shipping are factored in, there may be a larger portion of the population who will buy one or even 2-3 if that set is a little less specialized and only costs $55-60 shipped per set.

Yeah I dont care so much about the smallfry, but I love that board. 1800 is very important to me. 1.5esc or slash for backspace and other fancy mods for hhkb and other layouts are nice too.
It really cant cost that much more but i guess im underestimating everyones love for keyboards versus their expendable incomes.

[radio_killah]

Honestly I don't think Ivan should change the packs from what they are. With the deadline being Thursday, I doubt we will even come close with orders. That being said, looks like we will just be getting a ton of space bars... Which isn't a bad thing, because who doesn't need more GMK spacebars.

I don't really see leaving this GB open for longer helping that much.. Maybe it is just better to tuck it away and bring it back at a better time? In the end it is up to Ivan.

[bueller]

Honestly I don't think Ivan should change the packs from what they are. With the deadline being Thursday, I doubt we will even come close with orders. That being said, looks like we will just be getting a ton of space bars... Which isn't a bad thing, because who doesn't need more GMK spacebars.

I don't really see leaving this GB open for longer helping that much.. Maybe it is just better to tuck it away and bring it back at a better time? In the end it is up to Ivan.

Yeah I doubt it's going to make it. If it at like 175-200 then I'd be a bit more hopeful but we're not even half way there, seems pretty unlikely we'll get 150 last minute orders.

[nubbinator]

I'm just pointing out how to make the packs hit MOQ.  Strip out all the stuff that's for small populations that are very vocal but make up a vast minority of the purchasers and decrease the price, thus making it more accessible to more people and making more people willing to buy multiple sets.

I know I'm outspoken on this and that I may make up a minority, but $68 for a set that I know I won't use most of, can't trade most of, and will never use most of is way too much.  On the other hand, if it was a slimmed down $40-50 set, I'd buy 2-3 since I could have one to use, one to hold onto and/or one to trade.  The GMK WoP set Ivan ran first was perfect.  It played to the most common denominator and succeeded because of that.

If you're going to push minority kits that usually can't even hit MOQ at SP, you should be looking at SP for the sets, not GMK.  GMK needs to be for the most people while staying the most affordable or you'll never hit the MOQ.

[bueller]

I'm just pointing out how to make the packs hit MOQ.  Strip out all the stuff that's for small populations that are very vocal but make up a vast minority of the purchasers and decrease the price, thus making it more accessible to more people and making more people willing to buy multiple sets.

I know I'm outspoken on this and that I may make up a minority, but $68 for a set that I know I won't use most of, can't trade most of, and will never use most of is way too much.  On the other hand, if it was a slimmed down $40-50 set, I'd buy 2-3 since I could have one to use, one to hold onto and/or one to trade.  The GMK WoP set Ivan ran first was perfect.  It played to the most common denominator and succeeded because of that.

If you're going to push minority kits that usually can't even hit MOQ at SP, you should be looking at SP for the sets, not GMK.  GMK needs to be for the most people while staying the most affordable or you'll never hit the MOQ.

Yeah I'm starting to think that anything over $110-$120 is really pushing it, not saying that people won't pay it but it's going to be hard hitting that 250.

[Prelim]

the main reason why the Mods pack set is being a flop is because most of people only need moogle kits or spacebars (is simply stupid spending money on 65 caps if we end up using less than 10). We need urgently a GMK moogles kit GB (or something with less caps than this current pack) both on beige and WoB, as it never happened AFAIK  ... just my 2 cents

I know Ivan has made this in order to be sure all mods are using the same color tone, as Cherry made many tones of beige during their production years, but anyhow... the forum is filled with people using SP moogles + Cherry caps and honestly I don't see any major differences in color.

+1 /call vote for GMK moogles only

[luckyryan333]

At first, I had my mind to pass this GB, but I changed mine to take part in it.
I have no idea if it will happen or not, but I've ordered a set of MOD pack for my first 60%.

Actually what I'm rreeaallllyy interested in is a set of CLASSIC, that is, two-tone beige.
Probably or not, I heard that a GH'er was trying to make it happen, but unfortunately I don't get updated info about it good enough yet.

May the force be with a new GB for classic as well as this GB.

[IvanIvanovich]

So what I'm intending on doing...
In the full set, replace the duplicates and some extraneous keys with standard US/GB alphanumerics. This will then give the choice to use bitshift, US or GB layout while keeping the cost about the same as it is now.
In the mod pack, I'll be dumping most all the blank keys and a few of the specialist keys to drop the price.
Hopefully these changes will be appealing enough to get them through.

[bueller]

So what I'm intending on doing...
In the full set, replace the duplicates and some extraneous keys with standard US/GB alphanumerics. This will then give the choice to use bitshift, US or GB layout while keeping the cost about the same as it is now.
In the mod pack, I'll be dumping most all the blank keys and a few of the specialist keys to drop the price.
Hopefully these changes will be appealing enough to get them through.

[radio_killah]

So what I'm intending on doing...
In the full set, replace the duplicates and some extraneous keys with standard US/GB alphanumerics. This will then give the choice to use bitshift, US or GB layout while keeping the cost about the same as it is now.
In the mod pack, I'll be dumping most all the blank keys and a few of the specialist keys to drop the price.
Hopefully these changes will be appealing enough to get them through.

Awesome. Will you be posting an updated mock up?

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes, I will update OP once GMK gets back to me on my revision request.

[geniekid]

Assuming the mod pack doesn't get cut down too much I will probably be adding the base set to my order with these changes.

[CommonCurt]

So what I'm intending on doing...
In the full set, replace the duplicates and some extraneous keys with standard US/GB alphanumerics. This will then give the choice to use bitshift, US or GB layout while keeping the cost about the same as it is now.
In the mod pack, I'll be dumping most all the blank keys and a few of the specialist keys to drop the price.
Hopefully these changes will be appealing enough to get them through.

Ivan,

Will the blank 1.25 keys still be offered in the mod pack?

[IvanIvanovich]

I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...


We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.

[radio_killah]

I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)

We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.

That actually looks really good. I didn't really notice how many blanks you included. Hopefully the price drop is significant.

[tjweir]

I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)

We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.

Those changes work for me (HHKB layout and 75%).

Go Ivan!

// Dat colour matched 1.75u shift, I need like 6 of them!

[ideus]

I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)

We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.

This is the modifiers set to have for compatibility with most of the old double shot Cherry sets available.

[taylordcraig]

I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)

We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.

This is the modifiers set to have for compatibility with most of the old double shot Cherry sets available.

Yup, this looks fantastic; even though I'm gonna miss my blank 1.5u.

[IvanIvanovich]

Sure... some of the blank keys could be handy which is why I had them in there in the first place... but I figure those would be the least missed in most cases so easy thing to trim.

[geniekid]

I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)

We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.

Those changes work for me (HHKB layout and 75%).

+1. 

[aicrono]

I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)

We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.

This is the modifiers set to have for compatibility with most of the old double shot Cherry sets available.

Yup, this looks fantastic; even though I'm gonna miss my blank 1.5u.

Same here, I was really banking on those 1.5u blanks being included so I can have a proper GMK set for my 7bit Phantom.

[mason]

Hey Ivan I pmed you yesterday about my order. Just wondering if you ever got it since I never got a reply.

[WinterIsle]

Maybe cut out the numberpad mods as well? 

[IvanIvanovich]

I'm also going to see what kind of damage adding the keys to support Danish, German, Norwegian and Swedish does to the price on the full set... it's not that many extra keys... especially taking advantage of using side pad printing for 'minor' differences.

[HoffmanMyster]

(to echo/add to nubbinator a bit...)

What we need to realize here is that we either get a set that fits 95% of boards and leaves out the obscure stuff, or we get no set at all.  It's as simple as that. 


That said, I appreciate what you're doing here, Ivan.  Mocking up a set that fits so many boards is definitely a worthwhile endeavor, but at this point it's time to trim some fat, and I'm glad that's happening.      I want to see this succeed.


I just wish the dang colour pack would meet MOQ.      )

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes, it's hard to be so comprehensive without making the price too high. There are still a few keys that only be useful for a smaller percentage of people, but I think they can be nice to have. I was shooting for a kind of buy it once kind of set, so you are covered for almost anything made with MX up to now and likely into the future.

I just hope the changes I will be making will be enough to make more people happy with the sets here and get them to the MOQ goal.
I appreciate that some keys are not strictly necessary, but I hoped more people would appreciate to have some things that are less common, and some things that haven't been made for decades. It seems I was incorrect.

[intelli78]

I don't think you are necessarily wrong about that. But there are a million GBs happening right now and everyone is bankrupt due to the holidays, so I think they are just unable to pay the price.

[radio_killah]

I don't think you are necessarily wrong about that. But there are a million GBs happening right now and everyone is bankrupt due to the holidays, so I think they are just unable to pay the price.

There are so many people with great ideas and great GBs it really is a blessing and a curse!

[taylordcraig]

I don't think you are necessarily wrong about that. But there are a million GBs happening right now and everyone is bankrupt due to the holidays, so I think they are just unable to pay the price.

There are so many people with great ideas and great GBs it really is a blessing and a curse!

Yeah this could be the problem.
It's hard to tell when we only get vocal input from 20 people and obviously 100+ are laying down money.

[Cafiend]

Call me old school but this is that one set that I have waited for. What's being offered couldn't be any more perfect. Was excited when Ivan mentioned doing this months ago.

I always wanted a quality set of the old school colors that I grew up with on top of a nice black cased keyboard. I'm just not into purples and pinks (35 yr old male).

This would make my Dolch set ride the backseat for years to come  

[HoffmanMyster]

I'm just not into purples and pinks (35 yr old male).

 )  You don't have to be a 12 yr old female to like fun colors...

[Elrick]

I'm just not into purples and pinks (35 yr old male).

 )  You don't have to be a 12 yr old female to like fun colors...

No, but it certainly helps  .

This is a broad question for all here who know what's going on with this Group Buy, hence here is my question;

Is this current Key-set at all FULLY compatible with a standard G80-1865 keyboard layout? 

I know there is very little love available for this brilliant style of keyboard but I still am hoping Ivan is going to cater to the likes of us desperates, who want to furnish their ancient style keyboards with his current colour-way.  Please let me know about this because GMK is the only manufacturer that can supply all the keys for our lamented keyboard.

[IvanIvanovich]

Full set dosen't have the 1u ctrl, alt keys... and GMK dosen't have 6u spacebars at all. So no, they are not really compatible fully with winkey 1800 family. The mod pack does have 1u ctrl, alt... but still no spacebar solution, would have to source from other 1800 if you need a 'white'/'beige' spacebar.

[DanielT]

I'm just not into purples and pinks (35 yr old male).

 )  You don't have to be a 12 yr old female to like fun colors...

But only a real man would not be afraid of using a pink keyboard 

[digi]

But only a real man would not be afraid of using a pink keyboard 

yea, just call it "salmon" instead of "pink"..

[taylordcraig]

Nice pink keyboard.

IT'S SALMON!

[GSimon]

Yeah this could be the problem.
It's hard to tell when we only get vocal input from 20 people and obviously 100+ are laying down money.

I'll give my 2 cents then I suppose

• All packs have too many keys. Because these sets are trying to be inclusive you're really just excluding most people due to price/wasted extras. It's why people pay for Netflix instead of cable, no one wants to pay for 100s of channels when you only need 5-10.
• Base set for example has an extra arrow key profile, some blanks, stepped capslock etc. Those should be in a separate kit. 60% and TKL owners already don't need the numpad (and 60% won't need function row) and now I'd have to the get Tsangan kit AND those extras? More than half those keys are wasted.
• Mod pack is too inclusive also, with the blank keys and the numpad +, %, x num keys. I don't mind paying for the Tsangan kit in this case but the rest is too much.
• Color pack needs to ditch the function row and/or the blanks.
• Since every set so far could do without the blanks, have it in their own set for people to buy and stop including it with the rest. The one exception is the Base kit/Color pack for people who want to replace the Windows key with a blank one, but that's it.

The market for keycaps is a niche market as it is, and these sets are targeting a niche within a niche.

Last note. Yes, Christmas happened and there are other Group Buys saturating the market, but that's not the main factor. People who are strapped for the cash can often find funds for sets with re-sell value. Take feng's recent Cyan group buy. I can re-sell those color packs, it's a handful of keys that are desirable for a wide variety of people and are affordable. I can't easily re-sell the color pack here, nor the mod pack or base kit.