GMK 85|15 groupbuy (CANCELLED)

[HoffmanMyster]

Yeah this could be the problem.
It's hard to tell when we only get vocal input from 20 people and obviously 100+ are laying down money.

I'll give my 2 cents then I suppose

• All packs have too many keys. Because these sets are trying to be inclusive you're really just excluding most people due to price/wasted extras. It's why people pay for Netflix instead of cable, no one wants to pay for 100s of channels when you only need 5-10.
• Base set for example has an extra arrow key profile, some blanks, stepped capslock etc. Those should be in a separate kit. 60% and TKL owners already don't need the numpad (and 60% won't need function row) and now I'd have to the get Tsangan kit AND those extras? More than half those keys are wasted.
• Mod pack is too inclusive also, with the blank keys and the numpad +, %, x num keys. I don't mind paying for the Tsangan kit in this case but the rest is too much.
• Color pack needs to ditch the function row and/or the blanks.
• Since every set so far could do without the blanks, have it in their own set for people to buy and stop including it with the rest. The one exception is the Base kit/Color pack for people who want to replace the Windows key with a blank one, but that's it.

The market for keycaps is a niche market as it is, and these sets are targeting a niche within a niche.

Last note. Yes, Christmas happened and there are other Group Buys saturating the market, but that's not the main factor. People who are strapped for the cash can often find funds for sets with re-sell value. Take feng's recent Cyan group buy. I can re-sell those color packs, it's a handful of keys that are desirable for a wide variety of people and are affordable. I can't easily re-sell the color pack here, nor the mod pack or base kit.

What you say is absolutely true, and is what I believe to be the root issue here.  However, I think (and we've seen) that fragmentation in GMK buys is not good.  Typically, any set has a tough time meeting MOQ.  If you split it into smaller sets and have maybe only 2/3 of the buyers buy a given set, that set won't hit MOQ, and you'll end up with only the base set being produced.  Or, people who want the extra kits will realize this and not buy, which only hurts the chances of success.

What we really need is sets that are smaller and affordable, and not fragmented.  Minimal extra keys to allow the majority of users to use the keys, and that's it.  The whole point of a GB is to use our collective buying power to make something happen that otherwise wouldn't, and we're only hurting our efforts by doing too much.

[IvanIvanovich]

Exactly... also GMK pricing has the mysterious effect of becoming more expensive with multiple smaller kits instead of one big one that has everything.
I've done some revising, and hopefully the end result will be more satisfactory. I should have the pricing for those revisions early next week.

[Elrick]

Full set dosen't have the 1u ctrl, alt keys... and GMK dosen't have 6u spacebars at all. So no, they are not really compatible fully with winkey 1800 family. The mod pack does have 1u ctrl, alt... but still no spacebar solution, would have to source from other 1800 if you need a 'white'/'beige' spacebar.

Still good to go BUT need to fill out the rest of this set with more Taobao purchases to completely finish off the G80-1865 series.  Glad you are running this Ivan and please don't forget to send the bill out for payment soon, okay?

[taylordcraig]

Thank you to Gsimon and Hoff for their extremely pertinent points;
which happen to leave me with a short "rebuttle."

@Gsimon: The resale value of this set, in particular the mod pack, is the fact that it can accompany any keyboard with a classic beige set. I believe having it only fit certain keys will allow you to easily resell it to a fraction of people, while having every key leave a smaller chance of reselling it to EVERYONE. It's impossible to figure the math here, however, I personally have bought in on multiple mod kits because of how inclusive they are. I know that by owning two of these I'll never have an issue fitting a classic beige set on ANY keyboard, bar unknown keyboards with wonky layouts that don't exist yet. I don't feel I would have ANY trouble finding a buyer aftermarket for my extra set if I decide I don't need it. My reference here is CMYK from GMK, it always has multiple buyers in the classifieds, was completely inclusive, and ended up being $36 for just ctrl, alts and shift.

@hoff: You're absolutely correct, there literally isn't fragmenting GMK buys, because they just don't happen that way.
In regards to doing "too much" however, there are so few sets that fit any number of keyboards, and having one ultimate set, be it at a higher cost, would be godly.
In my eyes it's something that hasn't been achieved; this is why I bought in 3, and why intelli [not entirely sure about name and too lazy to check back, going to avatar in my memory] bought in 5 mod packs.
Classic beige in Cherry profile, from GMK no less, only seems natural.

[HoffmanMyster]

@hoff: You're absolutely correct, there literally isn't fragmenting GMK buys, because they just don't happen that way.
In regards to doing "too much" however, there are so few sets that fit any number of keyboards, and having one ultimate set, be it at a higher cost, would be godly.
In my eyes it's something that hasn't been achieved; this is why I bought in 3, and why intelli [not entirely sure about name and too lazy to check back, going to avatar in my memory] bought in 5 mod packs.
Classic beige in Cherry profile, from GMK no less, only seems natural.

And I agree with that!  I would love to see a massive all-inclusive buy get through to production.  My point was simply about how to please the masses, because (unfortunately) that's what you need to do with GMK buys (IMHO).  Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky and be able to do it one of these times! 

[tbc]

basically,

we need to create one giant set to make everyone happy.  this will include everything; base, mods, novelties, tsangan, international, (god forbid minila support) etc

then people who can afford to buy the entire set will buy at least 1 set.

then people who only want logical sets (base is a logical set, mods is a logical set, etc.).  people's partial orders are then combined to make one complete order that will count as 1 order against the 250 moq.

at this point, we would HOPE that we can hit the 250 moq.

failing that, we would allow people to cherrypick individual keys irregardless of sets.  that means they can get 50% of the keys from one set, or 1 key from every set.  again, we would combine orders to make up a fullset for moq.

is this basically what people want?  i'm not considering logistical hell because i would assume gmk doesn't have an option for this cherrypicking sorting.

no cherry puns intended -_-

[Elrick]

Exactly... also GMK pricing has the mysterious effect of becoming more expensive with multiple smaller kits instead of one big one that has everything.
I've done some revising, and hopefully the end result will be more satisfactory. I should have the pricing for those revisions early next week.

Hoping you will revise the design to make it truly HUMONGOUS, without equal, anywhere on this planet.  A Super-Large key-set able to furnish anything that was ever made in the past 15 years.

That I would buy easily, if they (GMK) like dealing with HUGE key-sets then by all means unload everything onto them Ivan, shower them with everything you've got  .

[bueller]

Exactly... also GMK pricing has the mysterious effect of becoming more expensive with multiple smaller kits instead of one big one that has everything.
I've done some revising, and hopefully the end result will be more satisfactory. I should have the pricing for those revisions early next week.

Hoping you will revise the design to make it truly HUMONGOUS, without equal, anywhere on this planet.  A Super-Large key-set able to furnish anything that was ever made in the past 15 years.

That I would buy easily, if they (GMK) like dealing with HUGE key-sets then by all means unload everything onto them Ivan, shower them with everything you've got  .

Well if you like sets that miss MOQ then by all means.

[GeorgeK]

Sorry if I've missed this (I've had a quick read through but can't see the answer) but what is the revised deadline?  Just juggling some figures with regards buying this

[Karura]

Ivan, so does GMK not have the correct molds for the 1800 spacebar? That would be unfortunate (not that it matters for this GB)

[taylordcraig]

Exactly... also GMK pricing has the mysterious effect of becoming more expensive with multiple smaller kits instead of one big one that has everything.
I've done some revising, and hopefully the end result will be more satisfactory. I should have the pricing for those revisions early next week.

Hoping you will revise the design to make it truly HUMONGOUS, without equal, anywhere on this planet.  A Super-Large key-set able to furnish anything that was ever made in the past 15 years.

That I would buy easily, if they (GMK) like dealing with HUGE key-sets then by all means unload everything onto them Ivan, shower them with everything you've got  .

Well if you like sets that miss MOQ then by all means.

Yes a larger key set done in an inclusive style through GMK would be far too price exclusive.
Sorting the logistical hell that TBC mentioned is nigh impossible.
Our only hope is the smaller more affordable revised sets that Ivan is waiting on pricing for.
Also, I once again urge international members to spread this to forums in other languages.
I truly hope we can meet moq on the cheaper smaller sets,
and that any real keyboard enthusiasts will "dong up" and eat ramen with intelli.

Ivan, so does GMK not have the correct molds for the 1800 spacebar? That would be unfortunate (not that it matters for this GB)

GMK has 6.25 and 7u spacebars.
The 1800 model elick was talking about has 111-6-1111, the 6u space is hard to come by. [i have one in the classic cream color]

[IvanIvanovich]

I'll decide on new order end deadline after I get the pricing back on the revisions. More than likely it will be changed to next month some time.

[Elrick]

Well if you like sets that miss MOQ then by all means.

Well have a look at the current numbers, are they any better?

If all anyone can afford is just a couple of keys from GMK then FVCKING forget about it  .  Who the HELL wants to keep buying just a couple of non-descript keys forever from this site?

Far better go in HARD and offer an all in one due to the cheapness offered compared to buying tiny amount of keys that never match to anything, in fact SP now ranges as the BETTER alternative you get FAR more keys at a lower price hence GMK priced themselves out of the market.

I love German made but I now stop at buying small to tiny number of keys because of people/noobs wanting to only spend $20USD on them.  If no one is interested in buying an authentic, complete GMK key-set, then why bother posting it here on a continuing basis?

[taylordcraig]

For once I can vocally agree with Elrick, this is wallet hack for a reason. Let the cash flow through you.
This is the most worthwhile wallet hack I've witnessed in 6 months.

[ideus]

You should wait for the new updated price to be publish to see if new orders get in.


My two cents:


It is true that there are many other group buys active now, however this one, in particular the modifiers set allow original Cherry double shot sets to be used on new ANSI, or ISO boards.


The Cherry sets have the right profile, are thick and have the right height, that are unmatched by other profiles. After I tried PBT sets, I should say also that I prefer double shot ABS Cherry sets always, with the only exception of the space bar, because ABS ones tend to develop shiny spots with only small use, so I will keep some PBT bars mix and matched with my Cherry ABS sets, yeah, I know that is not the most elegant pairing but I do not want to see bright spots at the front of my boards. The shine on the ABS worn off caps just make them more finger friendly, and the precision you may reach with the right profile, and the soft surface of a worn off double shot ABS cap cannot be matched by any other type of key cap.


OEM are too tall and most sets are too thin also; DSA have the right height, but with no profile and they are also in the thin wall side; contoured SA may have a good profile, but they are just too tall for a 60 for example, so their aesthetics are not that good, besides, SA made by SP suffers the profile mismatch of their 2.25 and 2.75 shifts that are only available in row 3 profile, who wants a misaligned set that costs over 100 dollars?.


DCS? well, it is close to Cherry but the caps are too thin, and the rounded corners DCS sets have do a bad service for a good looking board, an SP made moogle in DCS to match a Cherry set is like pairing a peasant with the royalty. So, I humble disagree with those having second thoughts trying to decide if they should buy other offers instead of this one. By all means, buy all of them you want; or maybe you are short of money, then just get this one. Just being warn the best set for a mechanical is by far an original double shot Cherry[size=78%].[/size]

One more thing: It is true that SP can manufacture sets in nice colors and multiple fonts, but who cares about the look if you cannot enjoy your time at the computer with a set that makes itself asking for too much attention of you, instead of typing in a real extension of your brain, a keyboard with a key set that will not get in the middle of your thinking and typing flow, that also looks professional.

[frostylove]

Totally agree.
SP sets for showing. Cherry ones for using.

[shay_shay]

How will we ever get past MOQ for this if the OP says it's past the order deadline? People passing through will see that and think they're too late.

[ideus]

Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.

[Elrick]

Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.

You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again.  That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else.  There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.

Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... 

[tbc]

Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.

You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again.  That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else.  There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.

Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... 

dolch was actually saved a person buying a HUGE amount of sets.  like 150 or so right?

[Karura]

Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.

You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again.  That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else.  There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.

Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... 

dolch was actually saved a person buying a HUGE amount of sets.  like 150 or so right?

I believe it was more like 50 sets, but yes, someone did place a huge order for it to meet MOQ

[Halvar]

Still justified ...



http://deskthority.net/results-f72/the-ping-award-2013-t7044.html

[b7ad]

You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again.  That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else.  There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.

Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... 

This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.

[Photekq]

This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.

I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.

I am a little surprised the mod set won't hit MOQ though. I guess the legends may have something to do with it again. Ivan, I only just noticed, how come two of the shifts have CP legends rather than CR?

[Cafiend]

Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.

You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again.  That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else.  There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.

Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... 

Totally agree Elrick! Beige is also my fav.

[ideus]

Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.

You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again.  That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else.  There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.

Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... 

Totally agree Elrick! Beige is also my fav.

I like it a lot too, I really hope that this GB reaches its MOQ, the modifiers set in particular.

[IvanIvanovich]

This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.

I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.

I am a little surprised the mod set won't hit MOQ though. I guess the legends may have something to do with it again. Ivan, I only just noticed, how come two of the shifts have CP legends rather than CR?

Main set revision will include US and GB keys, and possibly DE, DK, NO, SE too depending on how the pricing looks. It will either get cheaper, or stay about the same as I am either replacing keys or removing them, not adding. All the mod set have black legends except the bonus Esc key which has the CP... any other variation in color is just from the lighting effects they applied to the 3D rendering.

[JaccoW]

This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.

I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.

I am a little surprised the mod set won't hit MOQ though. I guess the legends may have something to do with it again. Ivan, I only just noticed, how come two of the shifts have CP legends rather than CR?

I think it mostly had to do with too many sets being run around December, an already expensive month.

[IPT]

I wonder if a classic White on black GMK set would even hit MOQ lol.

[SpAmRaY]

I wonder if a classic White on black GMK set would even hit MOQ lol.

I'd buy that and/or a good modifier set in white on black.

[HoffmanMyster]

Well if you like sets that miss MOQ then by all means.

Well have a look at the current numbers, are they any better?

If all anyone can afford is just a couple of keys from GMK then FVCKING forget about it  .  Who the HELL wants to keep buying just a couple of non-descript keys forever from this site?

Far better go in HARD and offer an all in one due to the cheapness offered compared to buying tiny amount of keys that never match to anything, in fact SP now ranges as the BETTER alternative you get FAR more keys at a lower price hence GMK priced themselves out of the market.

I love German made but I now stop at buying small to tiny number of keys because of people/noobs wanting to only spend $20USD on them.  If no one is interested in buying an authentic, complete GMK key-set, then why bother posting it here on a continuing basis?

Do you remember the super-set that Ivan tried in late 2013 (I think)?  The one that set out to satisfy everyone's needs, with all the international sets.  While it was a masterful set, complete with anything anyone would ever want, it didn't succeed.  Granted, that had a lot of language sets, so it's a bit different from this set in how it is complete (languages vs layouts), but it is still a good example of a GB trying to please too many groups.

[Elrick]

Do you remember the super-set that Ivan tried in late 2013 (I think)?  The one that set out to satisfy everyone's needs, with all the international sets.  While it was a masterful set, complete with anything anyone would ever want, it didn't succeed.  Granted, that had a lot of language sets, so it's a bit different from this set in how it is complete (languages vs layouts), but it is still a good example of a GB trying to please too many groups.

Just want to see at least ONE good GMK - COMPLETE key-set get accepted and made at their factory this year.

Had no idea how this place has become ULTRA conservative now, anything wanting to be made at GMK has to pass the strict protocols of the original text on a 1983 key-set.  I thought with all the young noobies here, that a whole new graphical display on these key-sets would be enough to get them to meet the amount needed easily.

Which ever key-set is finally proposed lets hope it meets moq without any misery or hesitation because I doubt Ivan will keep running any more unsuccessful Group Buys here, instead stick with another SP Group Buy instead, they at least always meet moq on this forum .

[bazemk1979]

I sort of spoke my mind in the beginning of the GB regarding sets being overboalted with extra keys and high prices, also the all wrong legends issue too. I know I got hate in return, facts are facts and it seems we don't learn from our own mistakes sometimes.

Remember what happened to Dolch at the first try? tons of keys, high price and GB didn't moved at all, Ivan somehow realized and changed up a bit and the GB went on because there were not extra keys and price was not steep.

Here we are again, same situation as when Dolch first started. Go ahead flame all u want, but at the end of the day results are the same, the GB wont go trough.

[ideus]

I sort of spoke my mind in the beginning of the GB regarding sets being overboalted with extra keys and high prices, also the all wrong legends issue too. I know I got hate in return, facts are facts and it seems we don't learn from our own mistakes sometimes.

Remember what happened to Dolch at the first try? tons of keys, high price and GB didn't moved at all, Ivan somehow realized and changed up a bit and the GB went on because there were not extra keys and price was not steep.

Here we are again, same situation as when Dolch first started. Go ahead flame all u want, but at the end of the day results are the same, the GB wont go trough.

What you wrote may be true for the full set, but it is not for the modifiers one. Regarding the legends, I partially agree that having some that does not match at all an ANSI layout is not particularly enticing. If that is what you meant.

[bazemk1979]

I sort of spoke my mind in the beginning of the GB regarding sets being overboalted with extra keys and high prices, also the all wrong legends issue too. I know I got hate in return, facts are facts and it seems we don't learn from our own mistakes sometimes.

Remember what happened to Dolch at the first try? tons of keys, high price and GB didn't moved at all, Ivan somehow realized and changed up a bit and the GB went on because there were not extra keys and price was not steep.

Here we are again, same situation as when Dolch first started. Go ahead flame all u want, but at the end of the day results are the same, the GB wont go trough.

What you wrote may be true for the full set, but it is not for the modifiers one. Regarding the legends, I partially agree that having some that does not match at all an ANSI layout is not particularly enticing. If that is what you meant.

and how you explain this then? Mod sets - 116

Whats wrong with this pic? We love GMK for the legends first and mostly, then goes the profile, thickness and feel. Maybe I'm wrong, but numbers don't lie....

[ideus]

I sort of spoke my mind in the beginning of the GB regarding sets being overboalted with extra keys and high prices, also the all wrong legends issue too. I know I got hate in return, facts are facts and it seems we don't learn from our own mistakes sometimes.

Remember what happened to Dolch at the first try? tons of keys, high price and GB didn't moved at all, Ivan somehow realized and changed up a bit and the GB went on because there were not extra keys and price was not steep.

Here we are again, same situation as when Dolch first started. Go ahead flame all u want, but at the end of the day results are the same, the GB wont go trough.

What you wrote may be true for the full set, but it is not for the modifiers one. Regarding the legends, I partially agree that having some that does not match at all an ANSI layout is not particularly enticing. If that is what you meant.

and how you explain this then? Mod sets - 116

What I said is that your comment is true for the full set, but the case of the modifiers is slightly different as it is not designed to be used as a stand alone set, instead it should be a complement for others, thus cannot be simple defined to its minimum, as it is supposed to serve as many potential users, at least 250, with diverse needs, of course the key here is to balance that goal with its number of keys and its price.



It is obvious the price of the modifiers set may prevent some interested parties to join the GB, authentic GMK adapter sets for classic colors have some demand but current SP made available are around ~35 usd in its basic form with just the bottom row, and some of the >1u modifiers keys, but this set was originally just too large. As you did, I also spoke my mind before suggesting to review the modifiers set to reduce the number of keys and get its price down, however the suggestion made sense until the GB almost reached its deadline with under 50% of the MoQ, and then Ivan was moved to reconsider, and we are now waiting for updated prices.

[honoka]

This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.

I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.

I am a little surprised the mod set won't hit MOQ though. I guess the legends may have something to do with it again. Ivan, I only just noticed, how come two of the shifts have CP legends rather than CR?

Main set revision will include US and GB keys, and possibly DE, DK, NO, SE too depending on how the pricing looks. It will either get cheaper, or stay about the same as I am either replacing keys or removing them, not adding. All the mod set have black legends except the bonus Esc key which has the CP... any other variation in color is just from the lighting effects they applied to the 3D rendering.

If language keys were added I think more would actually get in on the set. Myself for instance. I dont mind the pricing but for that kind of monays I would need to be content, which for me means having proper Swedish legends. I hope others agree.

[IvanIvanovich]

I am hoping so too. Having choice to use the bitshift retro, US, GB, DE, DK, NO or SE layout... or combination of those... as combining may produce some other layouts I didn't take the time to consider. I'm still working out how to get those all in there without letting the amount of keys climb. There did exist at one point some combinations with dual legends so I am hoping GMK has them. Otherwise some legends will be side pad printed on keys from other layout to keep the amount of keys as small as possible. Much like how I did the GB legends on Dolch.

[ideus]

Waiting for the smaller set?

[taylordcraig]

bazemk, if you read back a few pages you can already see a revised image removing almost all the blank keys.
Thank you for your pessimism though, it pushes us closer to MOQ with every breath.

[ideus]

bazemk, if you read back a few pages you can already see a revised image removing almost all the blank keys.
Thank you for your pessimism though, it pushes us closer to MOQ with every breath.

These sets are awesome just ignore the haters, their opinions do not alter the facts.

[JaccoW]

Updated my order to include a mod pack. Not sure what I will ever use it for as I don't really care for the Beige/grey colour scheme but the layout it provides is hard to come by.
And it edges us ever closer to MOQ.

[IvanIvanovich]

Please forgive the amazingly ****ty edits I did to the mock up... but this is what I am thinking.

I tired pretty hard to keep the amount of keys down, but an increase was unavoidable in the end. If the price becomes too high I will see what I can do to edit it down some again, maybe use more side pad printing. But, before you all start the hate campaign against this idea, just assume the price is about the same as it is now and let me know what you think about it. As it stands it now has support for bitshift, US, GB, Danish, German, Swedish/Finnish and Norwegian... maybe more.

[intelli78]

Hmm, I really hate to be negative but I think this was a miss...the market's response calls for a leaner and cheaper set, not an even bigger set. Good luck but I don't think this is going to get you more than 5-10 orders, and might even cause as many dropouts.

[IvanIvanovich]

149 keys in the original vs currently 160 (there are some further non essential keys that could be dropped)... with support for at least 7 different layouts. 4 of those layouts are nearly impossible to find and haven't been made in a decade plus. I have no idea why people wouldn't jump on the opportunity. I'm getting really really really tired of the if it isn't only what I use I'm not going to help anyone else get the things they would use attitude around here. So much for 'community'.

[ideus]

Hmm, I really hate to be negative but I think this was a miss...the market's response calls for a leaner and cheaper set, not an even bigger set. Good luck but I don't think this is going to get you more than 5-10 orders, and might even cause as many dropouts.

But as you are such a big expender, according with your own testimony, who cares  . JJ. This is true, I do not understands Ivan's logic.

[LechnerDE]

Hmm, I really hate to be negative but I think this was a miss...the market's response calls for a leaner and cheaper set, not an even bigger set. Good luck but I don't think this is going to get you more than 5-10 orders, and might even cause as many dropouts.

I have to agree.

More keys than standard ANSI 104 + ISO + Tsangan is just too much in my opinion...

[IvanIvanovich]

You're German and you don't want German keys?
How often does this even get offered, that there is other languages... almost never and people still don't want it when it's going to cost a similar price. I don't even.

[jdcarpe]

You're German and you don't want German keys?
How often does this even get offered, that there is other languages... almost never and people still don't want it when it's going to cost a similar price. I don't even.

It's because people are cheap. They want this or that key that they need for their specific layout, but don't want the set to be huge and costly. Take my SA-profile Hack'd By Geeks, for example. I included lots of keys to cover many keyboards, and that brought the price to $120. Orders haven't been exactly overwhelming. We will be lucky to break even, much less get anywhere near 250 orders.

More keys than standard ANSI 104 + ISO + Tsangan is just too much in my opinion...

Probably the most logical option. And for the Mod Kit, just offer a pack of what used to be called the "moogle" and "tsangan" kits only. Those used to sell so well in GBs, I never understood why we don't have small packs like that for compatibility with vintage WoB or BoW Cherry sets? Do you really get that many overseas orders, that you need to include other language options and blanks?

[LechnerDE]

You're German and you don't want German keys?
How often does this even get offered, that there is other languages... almost never and people still don't want it when it's going to cost a similar price. I don't even.

I wasn't talking about me. I will order one of everything like I do in all your GMK GBs, but I was thinking about the 249 other orders we need.

It's just too expensive for the average user. Why would any non German want to subsidize German keys?

And I don't need them because I don't look at my keyboard while typing anyway - for me it's all about nice color schemes and high quality key caps.