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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: donnghia on Fri, 06 September 2019, 09:01:26
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after moving to Linear (red gateron) from Topre and Blue Switch
I found that although it is very light and short travel, the Switch is just...Boring.... ! it do not have the soul, the vibe of mechanical keyboard like the Blue or the Topre... (Tacticle and Clicky !?)
I do not know why, any of you feel the same?
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I felt exactly the same way when I tried out a couple of keyboards with Cherry red switches. They were so boring, and seemed to go against everything that makes a mechanical keyboard feel special. I feel completely differently about MX black switches, though, for some reason. They're not nearly as boring as reds. It must have something to do with the added stiffness, because otherwise they're just as linear as reds. I'm currently using a Cherry G80-3494 with silent blacks at work, and a Topre Type Heaven at home, and I really like them both.
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I don't think they are just boring.
I think they are tiring, unergonomic and imprecise, and ....
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I love Linears no bull**** in between. People that go for tactility i mean you bottom out anyway so i think it's only for people that need to know when a switch activates. Don't tell me you don't bottom out because that is nearly impossible if you type in bursts. I know when my switch activates and don't see the need to get a tactile bump i see it more as a negative thing.
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People that go for tactility i mean you bottom out anyway
No, I don't.
... In general. I occasionally bottom out on some, and when I bottom out, I don't bottom out hard like on Cherry MX Red. The tactile feedback keeps my strokes short.
Feedback shortening my key stroke does not work as well on switches that don't have pre-travel before the tactile bump, like Zealios V2: those are total ass.
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I barely ever bottom out on my boards with stock Clears or Hako Trues. Maybe it's true that linear typists just can't seem to comprehend people not slamming the keys; tactility > linear for me any day. There's so little creativity or variation, and the base experience isn't good either.
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they are - when I joined the forums everyone was meh about reds / blacks except for a few crusty old people. give it time, they will move on from linears and things like half plates (lol)
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I love Linears no bull**** in between. People that go for tactility i mean you bottom out anyway so i think it's only for people that need to know when a switch activates. Don't tell me you don't bottom out because that is nearly impossible if you type in bursts. I know when my switch activates and don't see the need to get a tactile bump i see it more as a negative thing.
I'm sorry, but I do not bottom out on a buckling spring keyboard.
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People that go for tactility i mean you bottom out anyway
No, I don't.
... In general. I occasionally bottom out on some, and when I bottom out, I don't bottom out hard like on Cherry MX Red. The tactile feedback keeps my strokes short.
Feedback shortening my key stroke does not work as well on switches that don't have pre-travel before the tactile bump, like Zealios V2: those are total ass.
What tactiles do you like?
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I love Linears no bull**** in between. People that go for tactility i mean you bottom out anyway so i think it's only for people that need to know when a switch activates. Don't tell me you don't bottom out because that is nearly impossible if you type in bursts. I know when my switch activates and don't see the need to get a tactile bump i see it more as a negative thing.
I kind of get that you would think that, as I use tactiles and still bottom out most of the time, especially when typing while on a rhythm. However, I've found that the tactility helps the most on my outer two fingers. I've used a linear before and tended to bottom out on all fingers, which felt tiring over long periods of typing, and hard to maintain a good flow for long. With tactiles, my weaker outer fingers have learned to detect the tactile event and do not need to extend as much as with linears. I've found it generally more comfortable and helpful with maintaining my workflow.
Still, different strokes for different folks
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I had a poor impression of them since my first mech was one with MX Red, I was making a crazy high number of typing errors :)
Only recently an online friend sent me a board with lubed vintage MX Blacks which is much nicer and I make very few errors on it. But yeah I do think it is hella boring compared to good tactiles or the only clicky switch I like.
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Silenced linears are in my opinion peak Mx switch design. Smooth effortless press down and no harsh bottoming out + they are super silent. Anything else feels too much work nowdays.
My stock Leopold with silent reds actually feels so nice that I'm considering selling my Topres.
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When I had the MX Blues, I was surprised to learn that it had the same actuation force as the MX Nature Whites, because they didn't tire me out as much. I think the linears tired me out because I forced myself to bottom out harder to ensure I activated the switch, whereas with tactiles, I know I just need enough force to get past the actuation point. I do still bottom out tactiles, but I don't use as much force in the bottoming out, I think.
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Anyone who says they don't bottom out is lying. Sure you might not _most_ of the time. But no one is perfect, and imho 'not bottoming out' isn't the gold standard of typing -- it's just something people say to show off their multiverse brain.
... inb4 I get torn to shreds for that unpopular opinion.
That said, a good lubed linear switch with a decent spring is a great way to practice touch typing + not bottoming out. Beyond that, the only linear switch i can tolerate is a really heavy one (80+)
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Anyone who says they don't bottom out is lying. Sure you might not _most_ of the time. But no one is perfect, and imho 'not bottoming out' isn't the gold standard of typing -- it's just something people say to show off their multiverse brain.
... inb4 I get torn to shreds for that unpopular opinion.
That said, a good lubed linear switch with a decent spring is a great way to practice touch typing + not bottoming out. Beyond that, the only linear switch i can tolerate is a really heavy one (80+)
Ok.
When I'm on a model M I mostly don't bottom out.
Is that better?
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no one is perfect, and imho 'not bottoming out' isn't the gold standard of typing -- it's just something people say to show off their multiverse brain.
Ok.
When I'm on a model M I mostly don't bottom out.
Is that better?
I just don't see the point of a humble brag in a discussion about how bland linears feel... while also not contributing to the conversion.
In the end of the day, tactile switches are _much_ harder to not bottom out with because of the inherent force required to pass the tactile bump and active the switch. The case for linears is that you remove the pressure curve all together. If, as you claim, can avoid bottoming out on a buckling spring, you're a god among men.
Linears or tactiles aside, I think we all can agree that ham fisting a keyboard and smashing into the switch housing is no way to type.
... inb4 I get torn to shreds for that unpopular opinion.
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I've come to really like the sound and feel of linears, especially Green Alps.
I can certainly understand why they're not for everyone, though. Some nice light linears with a more steep spring curve are really nice for soft bottom-out, but it's easy enough for my hands to float along happily over some MX Reds even, and they're certainly great for FPS gaming.
I still prefer Topre, though, as an everyday switch.
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I just don't see the point of a humble brag in a discussion about how bland linears feel... while also not contributing to the conversion.
In the end of the day, tactile switches are _much_ harder to not bottom out with because of the inherent force required to pass the tactile bump and active the switch. The case for linears is that you remove the pressure curve all together. If, as you claim, can avoid bottoming out on a buckling spring, you're a god among men.
Yeah, the only exception I can see is stock MX Clear because the spring coefficient is so steep that immediately after the tactile notch, it gets quite heavy very quickly.
I'm sure there are others that I haven't tried, but for the most part the force required to overcome the tactility is far greater than what it is in the remainder of the travel. So it can be done, but either slowly or with additional focus/strain -- neither of which I consider to be desirable trade-offs.
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It wasn't really meant as a humble brag.
On MX Cherry Reds I bottom out the entire time. It's actually really bad.
With buckling spring I stop when it clicks. The feedback matters. Honestly I would expect most buckling spring users to say the same. It's nothing special about me.
Maybe I could get used to the Reds and lighten up but anytime I've used it it was really bad.
If this is true about switches with the bump making bottoming out worse it will certainly effect my decision about changing. I've been eyeing up some Cherry Clears.
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It wasn't really meant as a humble brag.
On MX Cherry Reds I bottom out the entire time. It's actually really bad.
With buckling spring I stop when it clicks. The feedback matters. Honestly I would expect most buckling spring users to say the same. It's nothing special about me.
Maybe I could get used to the Reds and lighten up but anytime I've used it it was really bad.
If this is true about switches with the bump making bottoming out worse it will certainly effect my decision about changing. I've been eyeing up some Cherry Clears.
I mean of course who doesn't bottom out on a 45g switch vs IBM that is probably like 60-80Gram. Try MX blacks and give it a other chance. MX reds that is impossible not to bottom out on since its so easy to press it down.
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On MX Cherry Reds I bottom out the entire time. It's actually really bad.
Bottoming out isn't a crime -- do it all the time whether I mean to or not. That's also the reason I prefer heavier linear switches -- I could either to get a lighter touch or get a heavier spring. Chose the latter. If you're interested in trying out heavier linears but don't want to make a full switch -- pun intended -- just do a spring swap
Ok I'll stop mucking up this thread now...
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no one is perfect, and imho 'not bottoming out' isn't the gold standard of typing -- it's just something people say to show off their multiverse brain.
Ok.
When I'm on a model M I mostly don't bottom out.
Is that better?
I just don't see the point of a humble brag in a discussion about how bland linears feel... while also not contributing to the conversion.
In the end of the day, tactile switches are _much_ harder to not bottom out with because of the inherent force required to pass the tactile bump and active the switch. The case for linears is that you remove the pressure curve all together. If, as you claim, can avoid bottoming out on a buckling spring, you're a god among men.
How is that a humble brag? It was a response to you claiming that 'not bottoming out is impossible', when plenty of actual typists don't at all. There are tons of switches (clears, Trues, beam springs, etc.) that are specifically designed to be difficult to bottom out on. You're crapping this entire thread by claiming that 'everyone bottoms out when they type' and then attacking people who don't. How about post something relevant to the actual question OP asked or stop calling others liars for no reason.
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no one is perfect, and imho 'not bottoming out' isn't the gold standard of typing -- it's just something people say to show off their multiverse brain.
Ok.
When I'm on a model M I mostly don't bottom out.
Is that better?
I just don't see the point of a humble brag in a discussion about how bland linears feel... while also not contributing to the conversion.
In the end of the day, tactile switches are _much_ harder to not bottom out with because of the inherent force required to pass the tactile bump and active the switch. The case for linears is that you remove the pressure curve all together. If, as you claim, can avoid bottoming out on a buckling spring, you're a god among men.
How is that a humble brag? It was a response to you claiming that 'not bottoming out is impossible', when plenty of actual typists don't at all. There are tons of switches (clears, Trues, beam springs, etc.) that are specifically designed to be difficult to bottom out on. You're crapping this entire thread by claiming that 'everyone bottoms out when they type' and then attacking people who don't. How about post something relevant to the actual question OP asked or stop calling others liars for no reason.
It was poorly worded, you're right.
The point I intended to make was that we need to be honest with ourselves that, while we can aspire to being prefect etc etc, chances are that's an unrealistic claim. And while you're right, there are lots of switches that make not bottoming out much easier, it's a tall order to say that "I would never".
Original comment was jab made in poor taste; *something about tone and intention getting lost in text*. Mea culpa.
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after moving to Linear (red gateron) from Topre and Blue Switch
I found that although it is very light and short travel, the Switch is just...Boring.... ! it do not have the soul, the vibe of mechanical keyboard like the Blue or the Topre... (Tacticle and Clicky !?)
I do not know why, any of you feel the same?
Linear is boring... and what is needed for fast typing. Clicky might get a bit too distracting.
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I definitely feel like they are more lackluster compared to clickies or tactiles, but I still sometimes feel like using linears.
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Linear is boring... and what is needed for fast typing. Clicky might get a bit too distracting.
Tactile is and has always been the best for fast typing, either clicky or not. Linear has always been the worst.
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Regarding which switch is best for faster typing... can't prove it unless you post your WPMs.
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Regarding which switch is best for faster typing... can't prove it unless you post your WPMs.
Sure, I can hit over 180 on tactile.
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It wasn't really meant as a humble brag.
On MX Cherry Reds I bottom out the entire time. It's actually really bad.
With buckling spring I stop when it clicks. The feedback matters. Honestly I would expect most buckling spring users to say the same. It's nothing special about me.
Maybe I could get used to the Reds and lighten up but anytime I've used it it was really bad.
If this is true about switches with the bump making bottoming out worse it will certainly effect my decision about changing. I've been eyeing up some Cherry Clears.
I have to ask how slowly you would have to type to stop at just the click. I have two buckling spring boards and I bottom-out on them every bit as easily as most others mechanical boards.
Consider that it takes ~70g of force to overcome the tactility, then suddenly drops well below that until the bottom-out. So if you're pressing with 70g+ of force, it'll buckle and you're sent straight down.
Not saying it's impossible, but you have to type more slowly and/or put extra strain on the finer control.
Also, when it comes to stress on the body, I'd wager that 45g linears with a light bottom-out (~45g force) isn't all too different from pressing a 70g switch in the first place.
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Any brown switch you can do that easily, it's far less than 70g to overcome the tactile event.
For Zealios v1 it's pretty simple not to bottom out as well.
Switch like Holy Panda or Zealios V2 might be near impossible though... ;D
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Most linears are boring. Good linears are great :D .
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I have to admit at this point I don't know what to say.
I paid close attention and I'm not sure if I'm bottoming on the model M.
It might be bottoming and simply doesn't feel like it. The Cherry Reds it's very obvious. The comments I made I thought were accurate. Now I'm not sure.
I'm thinking the springs buckle and blend in with the bottoming where's the reds there's nothing else there to mask it.
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I have to admit at this point I don't know what to say.
I paid close attention and I'm not sure if I'm bottoming on the model M.
It might be bottoming and simply doesn't feel like it. The Cherry Reds it's very obvious. The comments I made I thought were accurate. Now I'm not sure.
I'm thinking the springs buckle and blend in with the bottoming where's the reds there's nothing else there to mask it.
Only you can judge what's best for you. :cool:
If avoiding bottoming-out is your priority, MX Clears seem to be made specifically for that. This graph is a rough approximation but illustrates why:
(https://external-preview.redd.it/Jy1FbWVSAYHSSsTpKKuNumFUgJ6966PJ5ICoawsaQqc.png?auto=webp&s=1e1d6801dc85e6de2b2665c4f6c0f8e7f57bebea)
65g of force will overcome the rather tactile notch, but it takes far more to get beyond 3/4 of travel. Thus, it's easy to type quickly and not bottom-out, without thinking about it.
Most tactile switches are heaviest at their break point, thus tend to almost 'suck' your finger downwards after.
Linears don't have this problem, but you can't feel where the actuation point is, so you pretty much have to bottom-out to guarantee a key register. Perhaps an electronic or non-invasive mechanical clicker (like Space Invader Clicky switches) could help, combined with similar spring curves to the MX Clear (starts light but weights up quickly) could also be good.
I wonder what a dual-spring setup would be like. You could have a coil spring similar to MX Cherry switches for the full key travel, but a pre-tensioned leaf spring that serves as the contact and a second spring for post-contact travel. This is roughly how the force curve should look:
(https://i.imgur.com/9B4BOcZ.png)
The leaf spring could be weighted such that there's a 'step' at actuation.
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Since when bottoming out has become a mortal sin? Just use super soft orings if that's your problem.
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Since when bottoming out has become a mortal sin? Just use super soft orings if that's your problem.
It's not for me, I just thought it wasn't happening.
I don't care either way.
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Tactile is and has always been the best for fast typing, either clicky or not. Linear has always been the worst.
Regarding which switch is best for faster typing... can't prove it unless you post your WPMs.
It's all personal preference.
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I've been listening to switch sounds on Youtube with people using SKCL green and vintage MX black, every one of them is bottoming out otherwise the videos would be near silent with only the sound of the slider rubbing against the housing. But you hear the clack clack clack clack in all of them.
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Short answer: I agree that linear is boring.
Long answer: I spend most of my time on a DataHand Pro II on which it is not possible to avoid bottoming out due to the design characteristics of the key wells. The 1/10" travel is a significant factor as is the lack of springs and use of magnets. When I am not able to use it for one reason or another, (away from desk, need to do a lot of keyboard to mouse transitions, etc.) I use a Maltron with the linear Cherry MX Black keys or a Kinesis with tactile feedback Cherry MX Brown. The Maltron is functional and reasonably ergonomic but, from a tactile perspective, somewhat mind-numbing. It is also nearly impossible to stay in the sweet spot of just enough pressure to accurately actuate the keys as opposed to using a bit too much and bottoming out, especially at top speed, i.e. ~90 wpm. If I consciously attempt to not bottom out, my speed drops precipitously and I end up hovering right at the actuation point of the key with multiple inadvertent actuations per key stroke. The Kinesis with Cherry MX Browns with a supposed tactile bump (for the life of me I can't tell the difference between these and the cherry Blacks, with a Kinesis and Maltron side by side and going between the two I find them to be pretty much the same except for the poorly placed thumb group on the Kinesis and the slightly superior geometry of the Maltron key wells) is similarly mind-numbing with a slight drop in speed again to ~90 wpm. I keep an old Lexmark/IBM Model M on hand to alleviate the boredom, albeit in small doses as it is not at all ergonomic. Again, quite hard, if not impossible, to avoid bottoming out at speed, which for that keyboard is slightly higher at ~110 wpm, mostly due to instantaneous tactile response of the buckling spring. At those speeds, at least for me, bottoming out is just par for the course. My Datahand top speed is ~80 wpm due to limitations of the design (fingers always in contact with the keys as opposed to hovering slightly above as on a more "traditional" keyboard) but no breaks are needed so overall output is unaffected. For some intangible/indescribable reason I don't find the experience of typing on the DataHand keys to be mind-numbing, as I do with the Maltron/Kinesis. The Model M, while being the worst of the bunch in terms of ergonomics and noise level, is a guilty pleasure on which to type. I don't think I would like the feel of O-rings in any of my switches as I suspect it would impart a perception of mushy imprecision to the overall experience.
Updated 9/23: It turns out that Maltron is no longer using Cherry MX Black by default due to supply chain issues. Their default is now Cherry Brown. This explains why I couldn't tell the difference between my Kinesis and Maltrons side by side other than the Maltron switches being a bit stiff from not having been used as much. I was experiencing some "chatter" on one or more keys so had popped off the keycaps to apply Deoxit D5. You can imagine my surprise and subsequent emails to Maltron regarding the brown stems that were subsequently exposed. My initial statement of agreeing that "linear is boring" was based entirely on the assumption that my Maltron had the linear cherry blacks installed. I will have to revise my statement to something along the lines of anything other than the crisp feel of a buckling spring switch (Model M, IBM) is potentially boring for me.
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Linear is boring... and what is needed for fast typing. Clicky might get a bit too distracting.
Tactile is and has always been the best for fast typing, either clicky or not. Linear has always been the worst.
The bump is unnecessary and distracting for me..
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Regarding which switch is best for faster typing... can't prove it unless you post your WPMs.
Sure, I can hit over 180 on tactile.
Wait... what?
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Regarding which switch is best for faster typing... can't prove it unless you post your WPMs.
Sure, I can hit over 180 on tactile.
Wait... what?
He says he can hit 180 wpm on tactile ;)
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Regarding which switch is best for faster typing... can't prove it unless you post your WPMs.
Sure, I can hit over 180 on tactile.
Wait... what?
He says he can hit 180 wpm on tactile ;)
I mean i can hit 120 wpm sometimes.. but i type better on rubber dome. No thank you, i'd rather let it be more comfortable.
I mean tactile switches are great for typing but i just detest the bump
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Is there something wrong with me if I consider something like the Hako/Halo Clear to be the ideal "linear" switch for me? Or as a pianist my fingers are just over-trained?
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Until recently I didn't understand that talk about linear being boring.
But then I got a keyboard with green ALPS. Now these are indeed very boring!!! :eek:
Lubed Healios on the other hand: There's nothing more entertaining than that. :thumb:
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I used to be all about the tactile but something about how a good linear switch sounds is just so....satisfying. Currently I've swapped out of tactiles and all my boards are some sort of linear switch. Currently have in rotation,
Sakurios/Healios (62G)
Tealios (63.5P)
Gateron Inks (50G bottom out)
C3 Tangerines (62G)
What I have used:
Zilents V2 (65G/67G)
Zealios V2 (65G/67G)
Holy Pandas (admittedly these were totally stock without lube or anyting)
Zealios V1 (65G/67G)
MX Clears
Ergo Clears (67G spring)
MX Brown
MX Red
MX Blue
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I fking hate ergo clears. I've spent 2 hours installing those horrible switches on my keyboard, and now I'm so totally unsatisfied with the result. It feels bad. Maybe I'll try another tactile, maybe not!!! :thumb:
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no one is perfect, and imho 'not bottoming out' isn't the gold standard of typing -- it's just something people say to show off their multiverse brain.
Ok.
When I'm on a model M I mostly don't bottom out.
Is that better?
I just don't see the point of a humble brag in a discussion about how bland linears feel... while also not contributing to the conversion.
In the end of the day, tactile switches are _much_ harder to not bottom out with because of the inherent force required to pass the tactile bump and active the switch. The case for linears is that you remove the pressure curve all together. If, as you claim, can avoid bottoming out on a buckling spring, you're a god among men.
How is that a humble brag? It was a response to you claiming that 'not bottoming out is impossible', when plenty of actual typists don't at all. There are tons of switches (clears, Trues, beam springs, etc.) that are specifically designed to be difficult to bottom out on. You're crapping this entire thread by claiming that 'everyone bottoms out when they type' and then attacking people who don't. How about post something relevant to the actual question OP asked or stop calling others liars for no reason.
Yes they do...If you're not bottoming out at all, you're giving up speed.
You can do it on some switches that provide a false bottom out (takes a lot of power to overcome the last bit..O-rings can do something similar)... or you can do it on most switches if for some reason you think it is good to (and you'd be wrong if you think so). Someone got it in their head that the tactile bump was meant for people to know when to stop pressing down..and that's obviously false. You see people video themselves without bottoming out at embarrassingly slow speeds and typing in some weird way...Hey, if they want to go ahead, but anyone that is typing at a reasonable speed is bottoming out (maybe not hard but bottoming out) a good portion of the time...
Not one person to date has EVER has posted a fast typing speed without bottoming out...
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Previously I was using Cherry Browns, which is quite close to liner, I like those keys a lot, then I tried to downsize my keyboard from 108 keys to 87 keys and ended up with Gateron Blue keys. Geez, I got a lot of complaint from my wife who can't stand my 60wpm typing speed. She said it's as if she was in the battlefield hearing machine-guns fire.
Last week, in order to attempt her satisfied, I bought an AnnePro II keyboard with Gateron Red keys. Feels like the most un-mechanical typing feel I've had. But at least, no more complaint from my wife. Happy wife means happy life. Who said linear switches are boring? ;D ;D ;D
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I find linear switches tiring regardless of weight because I have to use a lot of force to keep the key pressed as opposed to clicky and tactile switches where tactile bump helps a bit to reduce the force required to keep it pressed. Although I find good light linear switches fun to use. My main switches at the moment are Kailh BOX Pinks with white springs and I added Kailh BOX Red to the rotation coming from Zealios and Tealios. I appreciate Kailh BOX Reds a lot and they are fantastic linear switches, stable, tight, smooth. This is the first linear switch type that I like and I've tried Tealios, Cherry Reds, Blacks, Silent Reds, Silent Blacks and Gateron blacks. After going through a number of popular MX type switches you can call me Kailh BOX fanboy.
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I don't particularly like Linear switches all that much, as evidenced by my siggy.
Linears are a bit strange and unpleasant for me; it feels like I broke the keyboard somehow.
Generally, if something is sort of floaty and goes down way too smooth like that without ANY tactile feedback to speak of, it just feels like the keyboard is busted somehow. I don't really know how to explain it (and I apologize for that), but Linear switches rub me the wrong way and for that reason, I'll take domes/membrane over Linear any day of the week. At least those tend to provide some sort of feedback, unlike a Linear switch, whose only instance of tactility is when it becomes all scratchy and unpleasant after not being cleaned for a while.
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I can't do Linears, they have to be clicky, or they have to be tactile at the very least.
That said, lets set up a scenario: I'm given a mechanical keyboard free of charge that are cherry reds, and I only have another rubber dome to use.
I would use the reds, but only because they are there and not the domes. I only ever choose rubber domes for the quiet, and not even always that.
For me the clickier the better, IBM Buckling springs in either the Model M or F, or if it's a cherry/Gateron switch, it's the greens and blues.
I do think that the Kailh Navy boxes, and jades though have something going on. I may give them a try in something soon.
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Previously I was using Cherry Browns, which is quite close to liner, I like those keys a lot, then I tried to downsize my keyboard from 108 keys to 87 keys and ended up with Gateron Blue keys. Geez, I got a lot of complaint from my wife who can't stand my 60wpm typing speed. She said it's as if she was in the battlefield hearing machine-guns fire.
Last week, in order to attempt her satisfied, I bought an AnnePro II keyboard with Gateron Red keys. Feels like the most un-mechanical typing feel I've had. But at least, no more complaint from my wife. Happy wife means happy life. Who said linear switches are boring? ;D ;D ;D
Just play a recording of my typing all over again and she'll get really mad
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I used to feel linears were boring & not fun to type on up until recently. I recently built a 60% with Gat Yellows & have fallen in love with the feel I got out of them. I lubed them with GPL107 & the feel is easily the most buttery smooth switch I have felt yet. 107 seems to be the special sauce for linears IME.
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I used to feel linears were boring & not fun to type on up until recently. I recently built a 60% with Gat Yellows & have fallen in love with the feel I got out of them. I lubed them with GPL107 & the feel is easily the most buttery smooth switch I have felt yet. 107 seems to be the special sauce for linears IME.
Like the weight?
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My very first mechanical keyboard (that I'm aware of anyway, many old boards have come and gone) had/has Cherry MX Reds. I have used them nearly daily since them, interspersed with actual typing keyboards on other systems. I got them specifically for the qualities of a light linear switch for gaming. I still consider those qualities worth having for that specific niche. If I did not have a need for that niche, I would likely never use them again, but they're still not terrible to type on if there's nothing clicky nearby.
I would say that I would rather have linears than most modern tactile switches I have felt too though.
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I've come to really like the sound and feel of linears, especially Green Alps.
I can certainly understand why they're not for everyone, though. Some nice light linears with a more steep spring curve are really nice for soft bottom-out, but it's easy enough for my hands to float along happily over some MX Reds even, and they're certainly great for FPS gaming.
I still prefer Topre, though, as an everyday switch.
Lol, I don't know anyone who DOESN'T like some good Green Alps after they've tried them. They have a perfect weighting, are very smooth, and of course have the great Alps soundtrack.
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I've come to really like the sound and feel of linears, especially Green Alps.
I can certainly understand why they're not for everyone, though. Some nice light linears with a more steep spring curve are really nice for soft bottom-out, but it's easy enough for my hands to float along happily over some MX Reds even, and they're certainly great for FPS gaming.
I still prefer Topre, though, as an everyday switch.
Lol, I don't know anyone who DOESN'T like some good Green Alps after they've tried them. They have a perfect weighting, are very smooth, and of course have the great Alps soundtrack.
I really do want to try some alps someday, everyone speaks fairly highly of them.
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Linears have always been boring for me
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Cheap linears are just boring.
Decent linears in a suitable build are one of the most delightfully clacky things on earth.
Decent silenced linears with light springs are a unique experience unto themselves.
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Yah i am not a fan of linear switches, they are very boring. Tactile is my go to, preferably silenced ones too :) very rarely mash my keys all the way down so i like the bump to tell me when i have pressed a switch and can release and its just very pleasing to press a tactile or clicky
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Cheap linears are just boring.
Decent linears in a suitable build are one of the most delightfully clacky things on earth.
Decent silenced linears with light springs are a unique experience unto themselves.
Agreed.
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Cheap linears are just boring.
Decent linears in a suitable build are one of the most delightfully clacky things on earth.
Decent silenced linears with light springs are a unique experience unto themselves.
Smooth linears are heaven.
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It took a great linear for me to "get" linears.
That said, I use switches of all three persuasions. Although it's difficult to get a good tactile now xD .
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I always have a bit of a problem when switching between linear and clicky - for the first few minutes at least. When my muscle memory is attuned to a linear board with light key presses and I start using something clicky which requires a lot more force, it feels tiring to use that board and I often don't register the key presses because I don't push hard enough when typing fast.
It's rather worse when I go back - say from a Model M to MX red. I will totally mess up typing for the next hour. Especially the handling of the shift keys will be a nightmare, often having the second letter of the word as a capital and getting many double keystrokes on letters.
But I must say that a linear switch needs to be a good linear switch. They need to be precise and smooth.
That's why I prefer the MX browns to the reds. Browns are not really tactile, they are scratchy. Reds are not really smooth, they are scratchy. A set of worn in browns could easily be confused with reds. I prefer the feeling of a switch that suggests it was tactile 10 million operations ago but that has worn down to a scratchy feeling along the travel of the stem to the feeling of we-tried-to-make-it-super-smooth-but-failed.
I can, however, appreciate any good switch design. I don't like them too heavy and I'm not that big a fan of super loud clicky noises, though.
But give me a switch that feels (to me) like it's worth the effort and I will take it and about fifty thousand words later typing on it will be second nature.
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Although it's difficult to get a good tactile now xD .
I think the Holy Panda tactility is even more satisfying than SKCM Orange. This is the first Cherry stem switch that I truly like.
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Although it's difficult to get a good tactile now xD .
I think the Holy Panda tactility is even more satisfying than SKCM Orange. This is the first Cherry stem switch that I truly like.
Well, I still don't have a set of these switches, so I can't comment xD .
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You know I thought this for a long time & just could not get into using linear switches. Although recently that has changed for me. I guess I'm starting to embrace Chyros' view that linear is the only switch type that lends itself to the MX design & clicky or tactile is much better with other switch designs (chiefly ALPS SKCM for tactile/clicky & Kahil clickbar switches for a MX compatibile clicky IMO). Now don't get me wrong I am not saying MX switches are the best linears, far from it in fact. What I am saying is that MX linears are the best the MX design has to offer IMO.
I've chased the Holy Pandas & all it's variants, been using V1 & V2 Zealios since I discovered them, honestly up till the last couple months I was a hardcore tactile fan. Then for some reason I got it in my head that I should try out a build with medium/light weighted linears. So I grabbed a Klippe-T, a brass universal 60% plate, a Cannonkeys Instant60 Tsangan edition HS PCB, a batch of Gateron Yellows for it, & some GPL107 to try out with them. Dropped the clear Gateron tops in lieu of black Cherry tops (Chellows is what I have heard this combo called), filmed them with TX films, & lubed up the all the switch parts with the 107. The end result has turned into my daily driver recently & now when I go back to my tactile MX builds they just don't feel as good as they once had. I doubt I'll ever completely drop using MX tactile switches, but my favorite MX style has definitely shifted from medium heavy tactiles to medium light linears.
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You know I though this for a long time & just could not get into using linear switches. Although recently that has changed for me. I guess I'm starting to embrace Chyros' view that linear is the only switch type that lends itself to the MX design & clicky or tactile is much better with other switch designs (chiefly ALPS SKCM for tactile/clicky & Kahil clickbar switches for a MX compatibile clicky IMO). Now don't get me wrong I am not saying MX switches are the best linears, far from it in fact. What I am saying is that MX linears are the best the MX design has to offer IMO.
I've chased the Holy Pandas & all it's variants, been using V1 & V2 Zealios since I discovered them, honestly up till the last couple months I was a hardcore tactile fan. Then for some reason I got it in my head that I should try out a build with medium/light weighted linears. So I grabbed a Klippe-T, a brass universal 60% plate, a Cannonkeys Instant60 Tsangan edition HS PCB, a batch of Gateron Yellows for it, & some GPL107 to try out with them. Dropped the clear Gateron tops in lieu of black Cherry tops (Chellows is what I have heard this combo called), filmed them with TX films, & lubed up the all the switch parts with the 107. The end result has turned into my daily driver recently & now when I go back to my tactile MX builds they just don't feel as good as they once had. I doubt I'll ever completely drop using MX tactile switches, but may favorite MX style has definitely shifted from medium heavy tactiles to medium light linears.
I think you're right. Linear MX have the best sound and feel. Some of the aftermarket switches are REALLY smooth!
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You know I though this for a long time & just could not get into using linear switches. Although recently that has changed for me. I guess I'm starting to embrace Chyros' view that linear is the only switch type that lends itself to the MX design & clicky or tactile is much better with other switch designs (chiefly ALPS SKCM for tactile/clicky & Kahil clickbar switches for a MX compatibile clicky IMO). Now don't get me wrong I am not saying MX switches are the best linears, far from it in fact. What I am saying is that MX linears are the best the MX design has to offer IMO.
I've chased the Holy Pandas & all it's variants, been using V1 & V2 Zealios since I discovered them, honestly up till the last couple months I was a hardcore tactile fan. Then for some reason I got it in my head that I should try out a build with medium/light weighted linears. So I grabbed a Klippe-T, a brass universal 60% plate, a Cannonkeys Instant60 Tsangan edition HS PCB, a batch of Gateron Yellows for it, & some GPL107 to try out with them. Dropped the clear Gateron tops in lieu of black Cherry tops (Chellows is what I have heard this combo called), filmed them with TX films, & lubed up the all the switch parts with the 107. The end result has turned into my daily driver recently & now when I go back to my tactile MX builds they just don't feel as good as they once had. I doubt I'll ever completely drop using MX tactile switches, but may favorite MX style has definitely shifted from medium heavy tactiles to medium light linears.
I think you're right. Linear MX have the best sound and feel. Some of the aftermarket switches are REALLY smooth!
Wouldn't say the same for my mx reds. Vintage blacks, alright.