Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)

[bpiphany]

Sorry to crash on this thread. But you see that white connector connecting the cable to the board, Is it possible to buy that male part (the bit connected to the wire). I'm looking for one so I can do a USB mini mod to my Noppoo choc mini.

I am pretty sure these are the exact ones. They look very much the same at least... I wouldn't call for sure what is male and female though. Do plastic or metal parts count? =)
http://se.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=87369-0500virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-87369-0500
http://se.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=89401-0510virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-89401-0510

[TheProfosist]

I think PLU is only 2KRO (no diodes on PCB), and the PCB looks to be of lower quality than Filco's PCB (and Phantom's PCB).  It is about US$63 before agent fees and shipping.  qtan maybe able to get us a deal.

Right now he has them the cheapest on ebay for $77 for pink case and $84 for white case plus shipping which he has at $16. The like about $5 cheaper on his store.

[dux]

I think PLU is only 2KRO (no diodes on PCB), and the PCB looks to be of lower quality than Filco's PCB (and Phantom's PCB).  It is about US$63 before agent fees and shipping.  qtan maybe able to get us a deal.

If you need any further measurements or exact pictures of the plu, I can do it.

BTW, what happens if I get an ISO mount plate and then try to put ANSI keys on it (in the area around the Return-Key)? I'm thinking of Sphericals R4 which don't have J-Return-Key but want ISO mount plate.

[TheProfosist]

If you need any further measurements or exact pictures of the plu, I can do it.

BTW, what happens if I get an ISO mount plate and then try to put ANSI keys on it (in the area around the Return-Key)? I'm thinking of Sphericals R4 which don't have J-Return-Key but want ISO mount plate.

Please share the measurements so we can compare to a Filco.

[hashbaz]

Please share the measurements so we can compare to a Filco.

Yeah I'm definitely interested in a PLU as a case and switch source for a 7bit Phantom.

[dux]

Yeah I'm definitely interested in a PLU as a case and switch source for a 7bit Phantom.

cool, but tell me what dimensions you need.

[TheProfosist]

cool, but tell me what dimensions you need.

Someone who has a Filco to come should probably be asking...

[hazeluff]

I am pretty sure these are the exact ones. They look very much the same at least... I wouldn't call for sure what is male and female though. Do plastic or metal parts count? =)
http://se.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=87369-0500virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-87369-0500
http://se.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=89401-0510virtualkey53810000virtualkey538-89401-0510

I had this debate about male and female for like PSU cables. Erm yeah, that seems like it, but 4 pin = /.

But thanks for the help.

[TheProfosist]

Question I havnt looked into this aspect too much will the phantom have a detachable usb cable?

[litster]

Teensy has a mini USB connector on its PCB (not the Phantom PCB).  That USB connector is not externally accessible.  But detachable?  Yes.  :-)  PrinsValium has talked about using a plastic connector that he mentioned a few posts earlier.  He will be able to answer the question better than I can.  :smile"

[TheProfosist]

Teensy has a mini USB connector on its PCB (not the Phantom PCB).  That USB connector is not externally accessible.  But detachable?  Yes.  :-)  PrinsValium has talked about using a plastic connector that he mentioned a few posts earlier.  He will be able to answer the question better than I can.  :smile"

Show Image

Yes I know about the teensy from the DOX project we managed to make a jack externally accessible I would like to see that with this project as well.

lister could you please tell dux what dimensions you need from the PLU to compare to a Filco and confirm that it is indeed the same.

[litster]

Dimension we would need to confirm the similarity between Filco and PLU:

size of PCB
size of plate
distance between:
ESC and F1
F9 to Pause/Break
ESC and Pause/Break
Pause/Break and Right Arrow
Distance between all the holes on the PCB for the supporting posts on the bottom of the keyboard case

I think that should do it :-)  I am assuming the distance between the mounting plate and the PCBm (the innards' thickness) is the same as it is dictated by the switch's height.

[litster]

Yes I know about the teensy from the DOX project we managed to make a jack externally accessible I would like to see that with this project as well.

If you use your original Filco case for your Phantom, you would need to cut/mod the Filco case to fit a mini USB jack for externally accessibility.  You would also need to extend the mini USB connector on the Teensy to reach the edge of the case and somehow secure the connector the the case.  The simpler way to do this, without cutting into your Filco case, would be to just hard wire your USB cable, or connect your USB cable to the mini USB plug on Teensy and use a zip tie to tie it down.  Unless we have a custom Phantom case, I don't think this is going to happen.  I can't think of a better way to do this.  If you other suggestions on how to do it, let us know.  Thanks.

[TheProfosist]

Dimension we would need to confirm the similarity between Filco and PLU:

size of PCB
size of plate
distance between:
ESC and F1
F9 to Pause/Break
ESC and Pause/Break
Pause/Break and Right Arrow
Distance between all the holes on the PCB for the supporting posts on the bottom of the keyboard case

I think that should do it :-)  I am assuming the distance between the mounting plate and the PCBm (the innards' thickness) is the same as it is dictated by the switch's height.

Thanks, now we just need dux to dissect his PLU.

[TheProfosist]

If you use your original Filco case for your Phantom, you would need to cut/mod the Filco case to fit a mini USB jack for externally accessibility.  You would also need to extend the mini USB connector on the Teensy to reach the edge of the case and somehow secure the connector the the case.  The simpler way to do this, without cutting into your Filco case, would be to just hard wire your USB cable, or connect your USB cable to the mini USB plug on Teensy and use a zip tie to tie it down.  Unless we have a custom Phantom case, I don't think this is going to happen.  I can't think of a better way to do this.  If you other suggestions on how to do it, let us know.  Thanks.

How about just a short mini usb extension cable something like this http://tinyurl.com/cpz4xbq , put a zip tie on the inside so that it doesnt pull out and you have a detachable cable no?

Also Im very surprised that you didnt design the PCB so that you could solder the Teensy right on.

[litster]

How about just a short mini usb extension cable something like this http://tinyurl.com/cpz4xbq , put a zip tie on the inside so that it doesnt pull out and you have a detachable cable no?

Sure, that works.  But I don't know how to tell group buyers what and how to cut their Filco case to do this.  I don't know how to secure it to the case so when you disconnect the cable, it is won't fall off into the case.  I suppose group buyers are free to do this mod if they want.  I am not sure if this should be part of the Phantom's design.

[TheProfosist]

Sure, that works.  But I don't know how to tell group buyers what and how to cut their Filco case to do this.  I don't know how to secure it to the case so when you disconnect the cable, it is won't fall off into the case.  I suppose group buyers are free to do this mod if they want.  I am not sure if this should be part of the Phantom's design.

Wont need to be part of the design or anything. And there is no need to cut the case. You were planning on plugging the cable into the teensy then sending it out the case right? So then just plug this cable into the teensy and sent it out of the case. What were you going to do originally to prevent the cable from being pulled too far out of the case? You should be able to do the same to this cable. Otherwise use a tyewrap on the cable on inside of the case. You were worried about it falling back in, what were you going to do about the normal cable falling back in? Do that, or you could have another tyewrap on the outside, crude but effective.

[litster]

Ah, I see what you mean.  Have the USB extender sticking out of the case.  That would work.  So people can just buy this extender if they want to do this.  This is pretty clean so there is nothing we need to change with what we have now.

[TheProfosist]

Ah, I see what you mean.  Have the USB extender sticking out of the case.  That would work.  So people can just buy this extender if they want to do this.  This is pretty clean so there is nothing we need to change with what we have now.

Yea, Im not trying to change things, especially if there are simple fixes like this. Also I just used that cable as an example I would have to know what length I would need to end up just outside the case. Then I would go hunting for a quality looking cable that met that specification.

[TheProfosist]

Do you plan on doing a guide for putting these together when you do the prototypes?

[litster]

Heh, a little pigtail.  Phantom has a little dongle.

[TheProfosist]

Heh, a little pigtail.  Phantom has a little dongle.

like how short or long though would be optimal for the female end to end up just outside the case?

[Skoobs]

so, this is only available for filco keyboard cases... is there a way to get just the case for cheap?

[litster]

Do you plan on doing a guide for putting these together when you do the prototypes?

Probably.  Placing and soldering the switches and diodes should be very straight forward.  The more interesting part will be soldering the Teensy, and loading firmware onto the Teensy.  PrinsValium already have a few tips ready for us.  A multimeter will be handy.

[bpiphany]

I had this debate about male and female for like PSU cables. Erm yeah, that seems like it, but 4 pin = /.

But thanks for the help.

I thought that was the Filco board in the picture... The Filco uses a 5 pin connector. But of course those come in all sorts of pin configurations. But then of course I don't know if it is the same connector on the Filco and PLU.
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/87369-0400/?qs=TLs3Kb%252bkMqL7rJls%252bAYn8g%3d%3d
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/89401-0410/?qs=jGANiKWBgchmI%2fn5pLDZzg%3d%3d

[bpiphany]

I was supposed to add holes, for a zip tie, to the PCB right were the cable enters the case, to keep it in place. That sort of slipped my mind... I'm not sure if it will work though. There might be a switch blocking it.

I had another idea that would be even better I think. If we include one of these with each order, it should be possible to cut a mini-USB cable and attach that connector to it. Then the Filco original cable, which fits the case hole, can be used without making any modifications to it.

I learned the hard way that it is hard to solder wires to that sucker though.. A very small piece of strip board to connect the cut USB cable and connector to would be a good thing. I can however only find 0.1" pitch ones, the connector is 2mm pitch, but that might just work I guess.

[alaricljs]

Sorry to crash on this thread. But you see that white connector connecting the cable to the board, Is it possible to buy that male part (the bit connected to the wire). I'm looking for one so I can do a USB mini mod to my Noppoo choc mini.

I thought that was the Filco board in the picture... The Filco uses a 5 pin connector. But of course those come in all sorts of pin configurations. But then of course I don't know if it is the same connector on the Filco and PLU.
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/87369-0400/?qs=TLs3Kb%252bkMqL7rJls%252bAYn8g%3d%3d
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/89401-0410/?qs=jGANiKWBgchmI%2fn5pLDZzg%3d%3d

I'm pretty certain that the Filco connecters are JST not Molex and that ebay is a source for the correct cable end.  That PCB mount connector is a match, however the Filco uses a surface mount version of it (this one is thru-hole).  Hope that helps.

[7bit]

Code: [Select]

phantom..........47
teensy...........40
ph7bit...........11
phansi...........18
phansiwin.........9
phiso.............2
phisowin..........6
backplate.........1
backscrews........1
diode..........3307
ledblue...........4
mxblack.........371
mxblue..........193
mxbrown.........238
mxclear........1694
mxgreen..........85
mxgrey...........22
mxred..........1404
stab200..........56
stab400...........5
stab625...........8
stab700..........10
case..............5
phantomfun........7
soldering.........5


[litster]

OMG!  We are at almost 50 PCBs!

[7bit]

OMG!  We are at almost 50 PCBs!

No reason to faint!

[bpiphany]

I'm pretty certain that the Filco connecters are JST not Molex and that ebay is a source for the correct cable end.  That PCB mount connector is a match, however the Filco uses a surface mount version of it (this one is thru-hole).  Hope that helps.

I think I might have lost the little baggie with the Filco tenkeyless tidbits... But you are correct, the connector on the tenkeyless is surface mounted. On the full size board they are through hole, both on gen1 and gen2. The cable is the same on all boards though, I think. I have those molex connectors on order from mouser. I will have them in a couple of days to see if they are a fit.

[TheProfosist]

Just looked at something

This is 7bits original layout


and this is the one after the pcb update


Can I still align the left shift like the original. I should be able to as this is how it is on ISO layouts but I want to confirm this.

[dorkvader]

Otherwise use a tyewrap on the cable on inside of the case. You were worried about it falling back in, what were you going to do about the normal cable falling back in? Do that, or you could have another tyewrap on the outside, crude but effective.

I prefer proper cable glands, though.

The name is pretty awesome, too.

[TheProfosist]

Just looked at something

This is 7bits original layout

Show Image

and this is the one after the pcb update

Show Image

Can I still align the left shift like the original. I should be able to as this is how it is on ISO layouts but I want to confirm this.

Any word on this or is the PLU case will match up?

[litster]

We will need someone with a Filco and a PLU to confirm that they are exactly the same.  Otherwise treat them as different and incompatible.

[TheProfosist]

We will need someone with a Filco and a PLU to confirm that they are exactly the same.  Otherwise treat them as different and incompatible.

I sent a pm to dux about the dimensions your requested any idea on my 7bit layout question?

[litster]

Phantom supports normal ANSI and ISO layouts and 7bit's layout.  We currently only have 5 layout designs for plates: ANSI and ISO with 1.25x modifiers, ANSI and ISO with 1.5x modifiers, and 7bit's layout.  If your layout can't be done with one of these 5 plates, it is not going to work.  So if you want 7bit's front row but a different configuration than 7bit's layout for the other rows, I don't they it is going work.

[dux]

I sent a pm to dux about the dimensions your requested any idea on my 7bit layout question?

sorry, but first was geekhack.org down for a while, now I don't have time till tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow till midnight.

[7bit]

I sent a pm to dux about the dimensions your requested any idea on my 7bit layout question?

You can put a 1.25 units key on the key left of (left-)Shift and a 1 unit key on the Shift key. But there will be gaps and yur Shift key will exceed to the left a bit (1/8-th of a key).

[TheProfosist]

Phantom supports normal ANSI and ISO layouts and 7bit's layout.  We currently only have 5 layout designs for plates: ANSI and ISO with 1.25x modifiers, ANSI and ISO with 1.5x modifiers, and 7bit's layout.  If your layout can't be done with one of these 5 plates, it is not going to work.  So if you want 7bit's front row but a different configuration than 7bit's layout for the other rows, I don't they it is going work.

You can put a 1.25 units key on the key left of (left-)Shift and a 1 unit key on the Shift key. But there will be gaps and yur Shift key will exceed to the left a bit (1/8-th of a key).

Then how does the ISO layout still work? as that row should be the same as that minus right shift

[TheProfosist]

You can put a 1.25 units key on the key left of (left-)Shift and a 1 unit key on the Shift key. But there will be gaps and yur Shift key will exceed to the left a bit (1/8-th of a key).

I have ben told the plate is the problem. Why did you choose to not put the Left Shift where it is on a ISO layout?

[7bit]

Then how does the ISO layout still work? as that row should be the same as that minus right shift

7BIT layout is not ISO (1.25 Shift followed by 1 unit < >) and not ANSI (2.25 units Shift).

One way would be to make a long hole to have the opprtunity to mount the 2 switches at nay position you like. The clips whoich hold them on the mount plate are on top and bottom, so this should not be too much of a problem, but I'm only a layout expert, no mountplate expert.

I have ben told the plate is the problem. Why did you choose to not put the Left Shift where it is on a ISO layout?

Because I prefer to have a larger Shift key. The other key serves as Shift Word which in emacs just holds shift until I hit space or return. Also, the whole thing becomes a little bit more symmetric.

[litster]

Plate layouts added to the second post in this thread.

[7bit]

Plate layouts added to the second post in this thread.

^^^ This is not 7BIT layout!!!

See?

[litster]

Please ask PrinsValium to update the 7bit plate.

[litster]

PH7BIT updated in 2nd post.

[kaiserreich]

Both plates would fit Cherry and Wire stabilizers I presume?

[litster]

Yes, that is the plan.  I will test that out when I receive one of the first test plates.

[litster]

DXF files of the plates are in the zip file.

[litster]

I made this with cardboard on Thursday Thanksgiving day as a prototype, just to see if it is possible.Now I have it in QCAD.Top layer:For Filco Tenkeyless, this layer needs to be thicker to raise the top layer higher because of Filco's controller.  This layer can be thinner for Phantom since its controller is under the PCB:Cut out for Phantom's controller on the left, Filco's 5-pin plug on the right, plus cable routing.  I need to know how much the Teensy controller stick out from the keyboard PCB because I can tell how thick this layer need to me.The bottom layer:If it is made with transparent acrylic and you look at it through the bottom layout, it would like like this:Hum, I think I need to move a screw hole...

EDIT: Added a screw hole, and now a 7bit top layer: