64 or 32 bit Linux?

[cheater1034]

Currently that's the only reason, and only because PAE isn't worth the hassle to enable.  You have to run a 32bit browser anyway if you care about having Flash.  I'm sure there are other gotchas which might bite you in 64-bit as well.

Flash is junk, but besides that, there is a 64-bit flash available. And you can run 32-bit browser plugins with a 64-bit browser anyway (nspluginwrapper)

Lulz.  I remember how broken Gentoo used to be, and that was years ago when it was popular.  Having been at this for 15 years, I'll take "works" over feeling awesome about pages of compiler output.  And I'd certainly recommend Ubuntu for someone coming over from OSX for the first time.

There's where you're wrong I've been on gentoo for 5+ years (along with numerous other distributions before and during). I must say it isn't broken at all. I love the ability to get any package i want, live ebuilds. kde svn with qt 4.5_beta1 is very nice for me.

I run a crazy system too  (~ARCH, with numerous live packages, my custom kernel, zen-sources). I also know someone who has a gentoo box with an uptime of almost a year, and it would have been longer than that probably except for a power outage.

Ubuntu with kde-nightly for me is blech compared to gentoo. It's impossible to get all the packages i want for it. So i have to install kdelibs 4.1 just to get some packages i want.

my second favorite distro is arch linux, but that's just me. I find it MUCH better than ubuntu. If you're not into the compiling thing, but arch will still give you that option (compiling isn't a big deal for me at all since i have a dual core anyway) the install of the system, X, and kde took maybe 8 hours total, unattended mostly. And updating is a single command

Find me another distro that lets me build packages WITH or WITHOUT debug symbols as i please (for live packages i don't strip them), and one that lets me build packages with native and that gives me qt 4.5_beta (a must for webkit-kpart/konqueror) and kde 4.2/nightly

[zwmalone]

Flash is junk

Do you prefer to go without or do you use GNASH?

[cheater1034]

Do you prefer to go without or do you use GNASH?

I don't like gnash, i prefer swfdec over gnash. But honestly, like i said there is a 64-bit version of flash. And i DO use it lol.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081117-adobe-starts-64-bit-flash-testing-with-linux-alpha.html

It's alpha, the first alpha version had some problems here, but the most recent one has no problems at all for me. Another advantage i find of gentoo or arch, you can install it with the package management no problem. I was never able to find a 64-bit flash .deb however, i had to do it manually.

[zwmalone]

I mentioned 64-bit flash earlier.  I actually forgot all about swfdec.  I honestly don't use other flash players.  Flash support is usually shoddy at best and to save headaches I just install the adobe flash player.

Code: [Select]

sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree

[lodc]

Currently that's the only reason, and only because PAE isn't worth the hassle to enable.  You have to run a 32bit browser anyway if you care about having Flash.  I'm sure there are other gotchas which might bite you in 64-bit as well.



Lulz.  I remember how broken Gentoo used to be, and that was years ago when it was popular.  Having been at this for 15 years, I'll take "works" over feeling awesome about pages of compiler output.  And I'd certainly recommend Ubuntu for someone coming over from OSX for the first time.

Agreed.  I too played with Gentoo back when it was "hot", and each system I ran it on eventually recompiled itself into a complete mess.  Yes, it can be fixed if you're willing to do the work, but it just isn't worth my time.  

Debian simply works, frees me up to do more interesting things than convincing my pc to compile something that thousands of other PCs have already compiled  Ubuntu is a great debian based system for people new to linux.  It's not quite as rock solid as debian, but it has lots of pretty things that make linux easier to use.

FWIW, a debian based system can also compile any package using whatever flags, options, etc you'd like, very much like gentoo.   I haven't needed to do that myself, but it's nice to know I could if I wanted to.

[cheater1034]

Agreed.  I too played with Gentoo back when it was "hot", and each system I ran it on eventually recompiled itself into a complete mess.  Yes, it can be fixed if you're willing to do the work, but it just isn't worth my time.  

Debian simply works, frees me up to do more interesting things than convincing my pc to compile something that thousands of other PCs have already compiled  Ubuntu is a great debian based system for people new to linux.  It's not quite as rock solid as debian, but it has lots of pretty things that make linux easier to use.

FWIW, a debian based system can also compile any package using whatever flags, options, etc you'd like, very much like gentoo.   I haven't needed to do that myself, but it's nice to know I could if I wanted to.

Well, i like debian very much and it would come up in my list of reccomendations in any conversation. I just learned everything I know from gentoo, that's a luxury I could never get with any other distro. The only problem with debian is, unless you want to run the old and lame stable packages (by old, i mean like dating back almost a year ago), then it isn't very rock solid at all.

Anyway, i'm not intending to start any debates here, but I'd say anyone who broke their gentoo system (mostly any distro system), it's to the fault of the user him/her/self. I've never encountered a distribution just breaking itself . Anyway, it's all about preference, i prefer gentoo (although maybe exherbo by the end of the year)

[Therac-25]

Well, i like debian very much and it would come up in my list of reccomendations in any conversation. I just learned everything I know from gentoo, that's a luxury I could never get with any other distro.

So, you learned how to type emerge $packagename instead of apt-get source $packagename ; cd $packagename-version ; dpkg-buildpackage -b -rfakeroot.  Everything you can do on Gentoo, you can do on other distributions, if you care.  

I've passed the point where I enjoy sitting infront of my box all day trying to get stuff to work because some tool didn't know how to make an ebuild properly.  Gentoo is the modern embodiment of the jwz quote -- "Linux is only free if your time has no value, and I find that my time is better spent doing things other than the endless moving-target-upgrade dance."

The only problem with debian is, unless you want to run the old and lame stable packages (by old, i mean like dating back almost a year ago), then it isn't very rock solid at all.

I haven't used Debian since I installed Ubuntu last year.  But unstable and testing were fine for years for reasonably recent software.  Debian's "stable" was like Ubuntu's LTS versions -- long term stability at the cost of features.  Not something you'd use on your desktop.  Ubuntu has been much better in this respect.

Anyway, i'm not intending to start any debates here, but I'd say anyone who broke their gentoo system (mostly any distro system), it's to the fault of the user him/her/self.

Yup.  For choosing Gentoo :-)

I've never encountered a distribution just breaking itself . Anyway, it's all about preference, i prefer gentoo (although maybe exherbo by the end of the year)

Lots of package management systems break themselves.  RPM used to be notorious for getting it's database corrupted through no fault of the user.  Installing some tool's checkinstall packages are another great way to break almost anything that's not slackware.  

As for reasons why Ubuntu rocks, Launchpad is one huge reason. Canonical's open source project management hub, integrated with the bzr dvcs system, and it also hosts personal apt repositories for every user signed up there for distributing to Ubuntu.

[cheater1034]

So, you learned how to type emerge $packagename instead of apt-get source $packagename ; cd $packagename-version ; dpkg-buildpackage -b -rfakeroot.  Everything you can do on Gentoo, you can do on other distributions, if you care.

Few things incorrect here..... My first gentoo install (1.4_rc...) was from stage1. It takes quite a bit more than "emerge packagename". I really learned the basis for everything I do now. Parameters passed to gcc, kernel stuff, configurations. You just don't learn that stuff on ubuntu. You pop in a CD and watch the gui or ncurses installer do the work. I hate portage anyway as a side note, i much prefer paludis now.

Creating .rpms or .debs is a nightmare to say the least, atleast on arch it's must easier to create packages for yourself. (if you don't want a source distro, like i said, arch is the only viable choice IMO)

Lots of package management systems break themselves.  RPM used to be notorious for getting it's database corrupted through no fault of the user.  Installing some tool's checkinstall packages are another great way to break almost anything that's not slackware.  

Hrm, i guess one day when i reboot my /var/db is going to magically disappear. This doesn't happen, things don't break themselves. Apparently you broke gentoo before and are blaming it on gentoo . Gentoo is easy to repair, even if you delete your /var/db you can still recover it. And that is amazing, considering that would totally screw up everything. Ubuntu or debian on the other hand, not so easy to repair if you made any accidental mistakes.

I don't know about launchpad, I don't really care about what it offers, but I don't like bazaar anyway , I am a fan of git myself.

[lodc]

This doesn't happen, things don't break themselves. Apparently you broke gentoo before and are blaming it on gentoo .

Blaming a user when the system fails to perform as documented is silly.

Are you suggesting that you have never done 'emerge foo' and wound up with something that didn't work?  Never had a compile fail?  Never had one package happily install a set of libraries that broke another package?  Never done an 'emerge update world' that resulted in a pathetic parade of "emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy xxx" or "xxx depends on yyy, yyy depends on xxx", etc?

Or maybe when these things happen you feel like it's your own fault.  Really it's not, don't beat yourself up over it

[D-EJ915]

a way to fix a lot of problems in gentoo is to use use flags as you go and not a giant list of them to begin with but I  have never run a gentoo system longer than after just having installed it lol so I'm probably not the best for advice on it.

[cheater1034]

Blaming a user when the system fails to perform as documented is silly.

Are you suggesting that you have never done 'emerge foo' and wound up with something that didn't work?  Never had a compile fail?  Never had one package happily install a set of libraries that broke another package?  Never done an 'emerge update world' that resulted in a pathetic parade of "emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy xxx" or "xxx depends on yyy, yyy depends on xxx", etc?

Or maybe when these things happen you feel like it's your own fault.  Really it's not, don't beat yourself up over it

No, none of those things ever happen to me, except compile failures. Although I run ~amd64. Still, they are few and far between, and usually they are because of a cflag or something. Although I'm not running anything close to wild now, hence no compile failures now.

I'm still going to stick to saying it's always something in the userland. Because if you don't run anything crazy, you don't get errors. It's the problem with source distributions, people have too many options so things break when they get a little carried away.