Author Topic: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard  (Read 14258 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« on: Mon, 07 March 2016, 21:25:54 »
so i move around in projects alot as i really like to stay busy. but this time i really want to put in the time, do it right, and create a truly full featured well thought out board. open source from the start. i have the layout figured out at least from my perspective. but the PCB i'm going to need alittle help with. right now the best i can do is a PCB with Teency daughter board since i'm not knowledgable enough to wire an ATMega directly to the board which is what i'd prefer.

i want this to be open source from the start in the spirit of the community and of GH.

the idea for this board came from my enjoyment with compact keyboards but the frustration of function layers. perhaps i'm just lazy perhaps its just more efficient to have afew extra keys.
a standard 60% keyboard has 61 keys. which is ok but wasn't quite enough for me, an TKL has 87, which was more than i really use so there was wasted space. i like the size of my 60% but wanted more keys. what i came up with after abit of tinkering was a board with 70 keys, BUT was only 0.5u larger than a 60%. this is achieved by shortening many of the modifiers, breaking the space bar into 3 pieces and adding additional keys. all is explained in better detail in the below pictures.

the goal was a fully functional keyboard, compact but not to the point it would be overly difficult for anyone to just pick up and be able to use easily. this includes dedicated direction keys in the primary layer. the ability to have media keys dedicated but multi functional. all of this would be customize-able. so all the additional keys could be modified to the end users ultimate preference. made for Cherry MX / Alps / Matias switch compatibility because... options are great!

130492-0

i have started a github repository for this. it includes the .json files from keyboard layout editor which can be imported to both keyboard layout editor and swill's plate builder. included in this repository is a PCB schematic made in KiCAD . i would love this project to be picked up by the community.

https://github.com/se7en9057/67percent-optomized

I look forward to all of your thoughts, comments, and constructive criticisms. i have thick skin. and plan to persue this regardless of community involvement or enthusiasm. i hope you find it as interesting as am.

on another note i made this BEFORE finding out that it was very similar to the keycool keyboard.


this has no affiliation with ultrahack.org
i had no idea they existed until i googled "ultrahack" today... small world isn't it?
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 March 2016, 12:26:29 by mrbishop »
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline regack

  • Posts: 639
  • Location: Thessia
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 09:26:12 »
I had to look up the Keycool you were talking about since I wasn't familiar with it, but that split spacebar can make a big difference in how the keyboard can feel to you.  I happen to like this layout you've come up with.  I could see myself using something like this, but I might ditch the left side space bar, shrink the center function key and add even more 1.25s down there. 

One thing I can tell you right away is that you're going to limit what keycaps and sets you can use, unless you have customs made.  DSA would work well, or R3 SA.  Just something to be aware of, don't let it discourage you.   Now, since you're already in the realm of needing odd caps, you could actually fit your project into a 60% case by removing .5 from the right hand side.  If you shrunk the Backspace (1.0), Pipe (1.0), Enter (1.75), RightShift (1.25) and knocked the two Spaces down to 2.0 it would all fit.  That might be too many compromises for you though, especially hitting that 1.0 backspace or 1.25 right shift.  I'm just playing with your layout now, you don't have to listen to me :D.

In the end, your layout looks like something that you've come up with to personally suit you, in which case by all means you should pursue it even if nobody else chimes in.   I would probably start with a hand-wired acrylic plate, just to see if you really do like it, all the while you could start working on a PCB with all of the features that you want.   You could always re-use the acrylic plate, or at that point have an aluminum/steel/brass/titanium/diamond-studded-platinum one cut.   :thumb:

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 09:32:33 »
Thanks so much regack. Yeah I like the slightly larger modifiers. So I may just keep them but to your point the mass market compatibility of allowing this to fit in a existing 60% case is interesting. Ill have to tinker with it abit.  I really wish I knew more about the atmega stuff because the teensy takes up so much room.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement

I have a cnc and some mass drop gaterons coming in so I'll post some pictures soon. 
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline regack

  • Posts: 639
  • Location: Thessia
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 10:50:27 »
  I really wish I knew more about the atmega stuff because the teensy takes up so much room.

I have a basic seed starter for the atmega32U4, U2 and AT90 that has just the pieces needed to get the microcontroller running, I can either post up the schematic or get you a copy of that later tonight if you like.  The plans that MOZ posted in his 65% split project are quite nice, although with everything blocked out it might be harder to see what's necessary just for the controller piece if you're not used to looking at it.   The basics to get it set up are actually in the atmega datasheet, it's just hard to read (in my opinion).  Another great place to see is actually the Teensy 2.0 schematics on the PJRC site.   I started my first 2 or 3 projects using the Teensy, but space needed for all of the pins and unavailable USB breakout make it a little difficult to fit into tight spaces.  For me, everything changed when Komar007 produced the first GH60 revision.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 March 2016, 10:56:17 by regack »

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 10:53:35 »
  I really wish I knew more about the atmega stuff because the teensy takes up so much room.

I have a basic seed starter for the atmega32U4, U2 and AT90 that has just the pieces needed to get the microcontroller running, I can either post up the schematic or get you a copy of that later tonight if you like.  The plans that MOZ posted in his 65% split project are quite nice, although with everything blocked out it might be harder to see what's necessary just for the controller piece if you're not used to looking at it.  I started my first 2 or 3 projects using the Teensy, but space needed for all of the pins and unavailable USB breakout make it a little difficult to fit into tight spaces.  For me, everything changed when Komar007 produced the first GH60 revision.

i'd love to take a look at your breakout for that, see if i can figure out what i'm looking at :D i really appreciate it.
would you mind if i posted it to my github repository for this? i'm trying to centralize all the workings for this.
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline regack

  • Posts: 639
  • Location: Thessia
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 10:59:51 »
i'd love to take a look at your breakout for that, see if i can figure out what i'm looking at :D i really appreciate it.
would you mind if i posted it to my github repository for this? i'm trying to centralize all the workings for this.

Sure, I treat pretty much everything I've made as open source, even if it's not something that I've released as such.   I haven't updated Kicad in a while, so the libraries are still the old format.

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 11:01:00 »
Ok cool. Hopefully I won't have any library issues. I'm on the latest version right now
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 11:01:13 »
And I like to ask just to be sure
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:10:56 »
I had to look up the Keycool you were talking about since I wasn't familiar with it, but that split spacebar can make a big difference in how the keyboard can feel to you.  I happen to like this layout you've come up with.  I could see myself using something like this, but I might ditch the left side space bar, shrink the center function key and add even more 1.25s down there. 

One thing I can tell you right away is that you're going to limit what keycaps and sets you can use, unless you have customs made.  DSA would work well, or R3 SA.  Just something to be aware of, don't let it discourage you.   Now, since you're already in the realm of needing odd caps, you could actually fit your project into a 60% case by removing .5 from the right hand side.  If you shrunk the Backspace (1.0), Pipe (1.0), Enter (1.75), RightShift (1.25) and knocked the two Spaces down to 2.0 it would all fit.  That might be too many compromises for you though, especially hitting that 1.0 backspace or 1.25 right shift.  I'm just playing with your layout now, you don't have to listen to me :D.

In the end, your layout looks like something that you've come up with to personally suit you, in which case by all means you should pursue it even if nobody else chimes in.   I would probably start with a hand-wired acrylic plate, just to see if you really do like it, all the while you could start working on a PCB with all of the features that you want.   You could always re-use the acrylic plate, or at that point have an aluminum/steel/brass/titanium/diamond-studded-platinum one cut.   :thumb:

after looking at the layout and examining more of my typing style i realize i only strike the space bar with my right hand so in theory i could just ditch the left one. but i really really like a larger back space key. the middle function key is abit of a strain for my hand so the right shift could end up being a function key. this is all based around my hands etc etc. but to your point. some of the keys may not nessairly need to be there or could move around abit. sadly tho the larger backspace key for me anyway would have to stay. god i love rage deleting text. that key will be a MX Blue or white Matias for sure ;) and the delete key too haha.
Rev 2
130548-0
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 March 2016, 12:14:20 by mrbishop »
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline regack

  • Posts: 639
  • Location: Thessia
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:53:00 »
I hit the space exclusively with my right thumb as well... just under the N, a little closer to M.  I centered the switch there, but used a 2.75.  I probably could have made it smaller.  The other thumb lands just under the V, so I put my Fn key there. 

More

Now I want a 'Space' key that has front printed 'the final frontier' on it

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:57:06 »
I hit the space exclusively with my right thumb as well... just under the N, a little closer to M.  I centered the switch there, but used a 2.75.  I probably could have made it smaller.  The other thumb lands just under the V, so I put my Fn key there. 

More
Show Image

Now I want a 'Space' key that has front printed 'the final frontier' on it

hehe yeah my hand falls the same way. and there should totally be a GB for a space key like that. maybe if this thing gets off the ground we could make that happen ;)
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 14:25:10 »
i have a feeling i will be tweaking this some more
Rev 3

130561-0
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 16:46:19 »


This happened
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2119
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 20:53:08 »
Great idea.  Certainly unique.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:02:37 »
Great idea.  Certainly unique.

to quote your sig "is it alps matias compatible" the plan is yes

thanks for the encouragement.

biggest hurdle now is to learn how to design an atmega32u onto the pcb then get my CNC rolling ;)
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline njbair

  • Posts: 2812
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • I love the Powerglove. It's so bad.
    • nickbair.net
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:11:06 »
I'll be honest because you said you have thick skin. The layout is aesthetically jarring, especially that bottom row. It's looking better on your later revisions, but it scares me a little bit. The extra keys would be nice to have, especially dedicated arrow keys. The keycap & case compatibility concerns have already been raised.

And finally, if you're going to move around all those keys, the least you can do is put Backspace where it properly belongs (in the \| position).

Alpine Winter GB | My Personal TMK Firmware Repo
IBM Rubber Band "Floss" Mod | Click Modding Alps 101 | Flame-Polishing Cherry MX Stems
Review: hasu's USB to USB converter
My boards:
More
AEKII 60% | Alps64 HHKB | Ducky Shine 3, MX Blues | IBM Model M #1391401, Nov. 1990 | IBM SSK #1391472, Nov. 1987, screw modded, rubber-band modded | Noppoo EC108-Pro, 45g | Infinity 60% v2 Hacker, Matias Quiet Pros | Infinity 60% v2 Standard, MX Browns | Cherry G80-1800LPCEU-2, MX Blacks | Cherry G80-1813 (Dolch), MX Blues | Unicomp M-122, ANSI-modded | Unicomp M-122 (Unsaver mod in progress) | 2x Unitek K-258, White Alps | Apple boards (IIGS, AEKII) | Varmilo VA87MR, Gateron Blacks | Filco Zero TKL, Fukka White Alps | Planck, Gateron Browns | Monarch, click-modded Cream Alps

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:34:10 »
I'll be honest because you said you have thick skin. The layout is aesthetically jarring, especially that bottom row. It's looking better on your later revisions, but it scares me a little bit. The extra keys would be nice to have, especially dedicated arrow keys. The keycap & case compatibility concerns have already been raised.

And finally, if you're going to move around all those keys, the least you can do is put Backspace where it properly belongs (in the \| position).

i'll agree the lack of symetry is somewhat irritating to the eye. but the more i thing about it and try to figure out what keys i dont even use the makes more and more sense to have the reduced size space and added keys on the bottom row.

i find the larger backspace key easier to find when touch typing and above the \| is where i like it :P however it would be simple for someone to move that key.

i think in the end this will be a specialty keyboard more catered to my likeing. would be awesome to have some fans however this is my personal quest for a 60% size keyboard that has more function for me. dedicated media keys and direction keys are key for me so thats kinda of where i started.

60% board Pluss arrow keys, pluss media keys... then i started trimming the fat. slimming keys and moving stuff around.

but yes i have thick skin. i do like the lay out more or less. i'm considering bringing back the extended second left spacebar but rather than space it would be a massive FN key. for symmetry sake.

as always i love to hear ideas and criticisms. so i will thank you for yours and take it into consideration.
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 08 March 2016, 21:38:24 »
Rev 4

i think once i figure more of the PCB design out i would like to make multiple layout options for the bottom row. if there is any interest anyway. if now i'll just build the one i like xD

130589-0
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 09 March 2016, 09:42:37 »
why do i love these time sinks so much

hopefully i can incorporate OPTIONS into this board. if anyone is interested anyway.

give me your thoughts!

130632-0
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2119
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 12 March 2016, 11:10:13 »
why do i love these time sinks so much

hopefully i can incorporate OPTIONS into this board. if anyone is interested anyway.

give me your thoughts!

(Attachment Link)

Like the bottom left one the most.  I've always wanted to design something with a 1x key on the middle.  Plus, it has plenty of good size modifiers on the bottom row.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline neverused

  • Posts: 571
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 14 March 2016, 19:24:16 »
why do i love these time sinks so much

hopefully i can incorporate OPTIONS into this board. if anyone is interested anyway.

give me your thoughts!

(Attachment Link)

Like the bottom left one the most.  I've always wanted to design something with a 1x key on the middle.  Plus, it has plenty of good size modifiers on the bottom row.
Kind of like this?


Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 14 March 2016, 19:30:33 »
why do i love these time sinks so much

hopefully i can incorporate OPTIONS into this board. if anyone is interested anyway.

give me your thoughts!

(Attachment Link)

Like the bottom left one the most.  I've always wanted to design something with a 1x key on the middle.  Plus, it has plenty of good size modifiers on the bottom row.
Kind of like this?

Show Image

Nice
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 11:48:47 »
I got some work done last night on the prototype PCB. i can't wait to get this thing built.

so exciting
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 March 2016, 11:52:59 by mrbishop »
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline MOZ

  • KING OF THE NEWBIES
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 3946
  • Location: Jo'burg
  • Busy making stuff
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 21 April 2016, 13:42:43 »
Nice work! Must be super cool to make the PCB at home as well.

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 21 April 2016, 13:46:58 »
Nice work! Must be super cool to make the PCB at home as well.

it was till my motion controller crashed. so i wasn't able to do PCB milling. however. i have all the parts for my new Pro grade motion controller set up just have to assemble, wire, config, test.
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 22 April 2016, 08:35:24 »
Nice work! Must be super cool to make the PCB at home as well.

it was till my motion controller crashed. so i wasn't able to do PCB milling. however. i have all the parts for my new Pro grade motion controller set up just have to assemble, wire, config, test.

well the damn thing finally ticked me off hard enough to kick my procrastination to the curb. initiate upgrade!
dis gon be good
Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case
                             
    

Offline mrbishop

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 796
  • Location: South Carolina USA
  • Evil Genius
    • Bishop Computer Design web
Re: project UltraHack - 67% keyboard
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 01 June 2016, 10:23:19 »
this project is now part of Hackdura

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82535.new#new

Projects
Build to give back, 40% | Alps/Matias Removal ToolUltraHack 67% Hackdura  | ErgoDox case