G's announcement (not relevant to most geeks)

[berserkfan]

forced to delete some of my older posts because of the lies and distortions a certain person has been telling others. I've always been pretty candid and unguarded online, but in the hands of a master liar, everything I say can be used against me. 

[dgneo]

TL;DR: You might get a refund if you're lucky, and I'm not sorry for ****ing up, because I got rid of everything which was my original goal, is what I'm getting out of this.

Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what. Anyone who got more value than what he paid for, will not be refunded. Not to be an SOB about it but it is just impossible to refund everyone. I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.

EDIT: You can check out your sale thread for a pretty damn clear picture.

EDIT 2: More specifically, check out the Google Doc that's tracking who bought what, and what they actually received.

[Venatorious]

I hope this can get worked out cooperatively, I know some people are quite peeved. 

Good luck to all buyers and Gutz in this.

[ghostjuggernaut]

I was not involved with your sale, but want to say that I don't agree with how you are approaching this. I think you are overestimating your position with PayPal, and assume that you have all the power.

Good luck to everyone that was burned through this.

[HoffmanMyster]

This is not how you make things right.  Mistakes were made, now is your chance to be mature and make things right.

Remember how you felt when you were wronged by others here?  Let me remind you:

GhostofHarry,

I have treated you like a friend and supported your endeavor all the way, even though I did not need the keycaps. I have given you emotional and financial and spiritual support.

Like Dorkvader, you have given me nothing in return. I have volunteered to be the last person to receive your keycaps, and I have NOT received them while it seems others have.

Now after 14 months you have ignored all my PMs and I still have no keycaps nor refund (assuming you sold my keycaps which I said you could do). I have confirmed my address and paypal with you already.

If this is how you treat people who have been good to you, you can never hope to gain allies in work or life.

Yet this is how you respond to people who are currently in a similar position to that which you were in just a few short months ago:

A good many mistakes were made in the shipping out rush. Wife had to send over 80 packages within a few days and she’s not familiar with the descriptions. (And quite fed up too, so she just stuffed packages with whatever seemed right or approximately the same value.)

[...]

Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used. If I choose to escalate your complaint to a Return, you are going to have to pay a lot of money to ship stuff back to Singapore before you get refunded.  We have shipping invoices that say 5kg and 10kg of ‘keyboards’ and ‘keyboard parts’, so sending me a postcard with a tracking number is going to get you hit with a buyer fraud charge.

Allow me to borrow a quote that describes your response fairly aptly...

I've tried many times.

[He] will do whatever he feels like, when he feels like it, and if he feels like it.

Don't stoop to this level. 

[Belfong]

How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment  made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.

[HoffmanMyster]

How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment  made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.

One would hope he has a conscience.

[kekman]

wasn't shipping supposed to be paid for by buyers?

[Belfong]

wasn't shipping supposed to be paid for by buyers?

Yeah, which also means what money he received from this sale is probably paltry. No way he could even turn any profit. And now, to incur additional costs. This is a very stressful situation to be in.

[[Lewynlight]]

wasn't shipping supposed to be paid for by buyers?

Yeah, which also means what money he received from this sale is probably paltry. No way he could even turn any profit. And now, to incur additional costs. This is a very stressful situation to be in.

it's logical. remember that basically it's his wife's messy job that has gotten us in this.
let me give you an example.
gutz's position are from Singapore

there's A, from Australia, buying a 5kg box
there's B, from US, buying a 2kg box

assume that the shipping price from singapore to:

- Aus (5kg) is $25
- Aus (2kg) is $15

- US (5kg) is $60
- US(2kg) is $40

IF his wife are THAT messed up, to send a 5kg box to US and 2kg box to AUS,
so the calculation will be

money received from buyer: 25+40= $65

money spend: 60+15=$75

that's already $10 loss.

this is really messed up, i hope we can solve this puzzle altogether..

and remind me not to get a wife.
by the way, my approach for this problem is;

can you identify what packet (we can raw-calculate the thing by size)was sent to who? at least you still have the shipping receipt, right?

[ideus]

I am not involve in the sale either; but, it seems that a way to mitigate the problem is the OP paying for getting the identified packages being shipped to the right owners from where they were wrongly delivered. You cannot blame neither your wife, nor the buyers for the wrong shipments, you decided to sell, you involved an inexperienced person to make the shipments, now you should fix the situation.

You should also stop opening different threads to communicate about the issue, keep posting in only one thread; otherwise, it appears you are avoiding to answer the multiple complains, I think most of the people here are understanding guys that will allow you some room and time if you actually act to solve the problem, you cannot complain on those who already filed claims, because they are exercising their rights.

[timerwin63]

How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment  made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.

I don't know what anyone else paid, but I paid $30 for a handful of caps, $35 for some switches, $18 for shipping (for $9.40 worth, less if it's SGD, it's printed on the box) and whatever the PP fees were, and I got what would be a $30 set of caps (I think, if bought brand new) that I can't even use due to my board's layout. He certainly didn't lose any money shipping anything to me. I'm not saying he made a net gain from the sale, just that saying he's losing money on shipping to everyone isn't necessarily accurate.

I know for many people, $90 isn't necessarily a huge deal, and it's a loss that many can swallow, but I'm living paycheck to paycheck and , and when I got that little bit of money to mess around with, I was excited to get something good.

If anyone else's experiences are similar to mine (on what's likely a considerably larger scale for some), I think people getting angry about this and demanding some kind of reparation is totally justifiable.

[chuckdee]

Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what. Anyone who got more value than what he paid for, will not be refunded. Not to be an SOB about it but it is just impossible to refund everyone. I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.

You seem to be under a misconception, putting it mildly and generously.  And are trying, inadvertently, or on purpose to spread that, and fear that no one will get anything.  Our claims are not primarily against you- they are against buyer protection.  If the claim is decided in our favour, Paypal pays for it if it is below a certain limit, and then pursues you for the money.  First in the form of a chargeback, then in terms of a delinquency, and other collection activities.  You don't want to take this lightly- they are very aggressive and very thorough.

4.3 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims. When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment sent to you plus any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason. This means that, in addition to any other liability, you will be responsible for the amount of the payment sent by the sender, plus the applicable Fees listed in Section 8 (Fees) of this Agreement if you lose a Claim or a Chargeback or if there is a Reversal of the payment. You agree to allow PayPal to recover any amounts due to PayPal by debiting your Balance. If there are insufficient funds in your Balance to cover your liability, you agree to reimburse PayPal through other means. If a sender of a payment files a Chargeback, the credit card issuer, not PayPal, will determine who wins the Chargeback.

4.4 Refund and Reversal Currencies. All refunds and reversals will be made in the same currency as the original transaction. If your transaction must be refunded or reversed and you do not have the correct currency available in your Balance, a currency conversion will be performed.

You've already violated a couple of restrictions which are going to work against you for any disputes, and I urge anyone that was charged these to make sure that these charges are enumerated in any dispute, i.e.:

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

These are the references:
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Refunds-and-cancellations/WILL-I-GET-MY-MONEY-BACK/td-p/441743?profile.language=en-gb
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Security-and-protection/Recourse-if-I-win-claim-but-seller-has-no-money-in-their-account/td-p/209534?profile.language=en
https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/article/FAQ645/1
https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/article/FAQ2378/4
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US#13. Protection for Buyers.


I am not unsympathetic to your struggles, and the magnitude of this issue.  However, deflecting, guilt, and avoidance are not methods that will be accepted (at least by me) for resolution.

If you deal with people honestly and fairly, most will do the same with you, and give you the benefit of the doubt.  You also have to know that no one is required to do so.  The mistake was on your part, no matter what else you're going through.  You need to own that.  That's all I personally asked.  And when I realized you weren't to that point, then other things kicked in.

[gtxorb]

At least 1 box went out totally wrong because I earmarked a box for that person’s stuff in March. He changed his orders several times so I procrastinated with packing, took out his granite keycaps, white and green switches, and eventually forgot that box hadn’t been packed. This guy had a big order, and he got 0% of his order. Instead he got only the keyboard kit which had occupied the box all along. He got very low value. Now I have no idea how to send him what he ordered.

Hi berserkfan, I believe who you talking about is me, I don't want any stuff I ordered before right now.
Since I just received 0% of my order, I want my money back.

Actually I used bank transfer, I am not sure if you CAN give my money back.

I have send you PM, but no response, please contact me if you see this.

[mind_funeral]

I find it hard to understand how the shipping got messed up.  Berserk had a .Doc with all the items he was selling WITH a simple item number (ex J.06).  Why was that .Doc not just referenced with a list of item numbers sold to a certain person and his address?  I mean even the shipping weights were on that document. 

Example:

Joe Blow
123 Candy Land
The Moon

Paid for:
J.06
A.12
D.14

As far as double selling, your Paypal excuse makes no sense because I paid before anyone else (for my item on 4/20) with MONEYGRAM!  I have not received any tracking or even confirmation that the item was shipped other than in the sale thread when you said:

If you paid before 22 April, most packages should go out 27 or 29 April. If you paid after 22 April, I will still try to get your stuff out in the same batch, but shipping may take place May 3.

You will be given the tracking number. Please follow the instructions on my shipping post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78531.msg2071707#msg2071707, and use the tracking number on either the Singpost.com or Speedpost.com.sg website. Once tracking says ‘accepted at the post office’, it’s out of my hands.

Regardless of my item being double sold and possibly not even shipped to me, you still picked up my Moneygram on May 9th!

You claim this,

Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used.

Yet I have no package, tracking, or even confirmation that anything was shipped to me.  I understand that some people are getting something, but if/when nothing shows up to my door, what happens to my money?

[demik]

Proof you can't leave this place. It's just too much fun drama going on OuO

[kekman]

I find it hard to understand how the shipping got messed up.  Berserk had a .Doc with all the items he was selling WITH a simple item number (ex J.06).  Why was that .Doc not just referenced with a list of item numbers sold to a certain person and his address?  I mean even the shipping weights were on that document. 

Example:

Joe Blow
123 Candy Land
The Moon

Paid for:
J.06
A.12
D.14

As far as double selling, your Paypal excuse makes no sense because I paid before anyone else (for my item on 4/20) with MONEYGRAM!  I have not received any tracking or even confirmation that the item was shipped other than in the sale thread when you said:

If you paid before 22 April, most packages should go out 27 or 29 April. If you paid after 22 April, I will still try to get your stuff out in the same batch, but shipping may take place May 3.

You will be given the tracking number. Please follow the instructions on my shipping post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78531.msg2071707#msg2071707, and use the tracking number on either the Singpost.com or Speedpost.com.sg website. Once tracking says ‘accepted at the post office’, it’s out of my hands.

Regardless of my item being double sold and possibly not even shipped to me, you still picked up my Moneygram on May 9th!

You claim this,

Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used.

Yet I have no package, tracking, or even confirmation that anything was shipped to me.  I understand that some people are getting something, but if/when nothing shows up to my door, what happens to my money?

In the same situation.

[mind_funeral]

In the same situation.

Good luck, duder.

[kekman]

In the same situation.

Good luck, duder.

I wouldn't worry if I were you, somebody on craigslist will contact you saying he's got your stuff in a couple weeks time, just wait. :v

[Skysophrenic]

I have (been) compiling(ed) a semi-thorough list of pm's of you confirming orders, payment details and comparing it to what was received by users. I have done it from a very bottoms up approach, with limited resources of knowing who even bought stuff from you.

You who stood at the top, the control center, the financial hub of your sales and logistics operation, should have been able to manage everything better. What you have essentially done is walk into the room, and announce "hey guys, I'm an important guy who works way too hard so you guys should all feel sorry for me, and not be angry that I screwed you all over."

There is a very big difference between a mistake, and negligence. This is the latter. Get off your high horse and admit that you've basically done whatever the hell you wanted with stuff because you had no respect for anybody else's transactions. You set a mutual agreement between buyer (you) and seller (us) and simply not carry through. It is a lack of responsibility in carrying out the sale, and a lack of accountability in following through.

The problem here isn't the sale. The problem here is your attitude and approach to taking responsibility.

[chuckdee]

wasn't shipping supposed to be paid for by buyers?

Yeah, which also means what money he received from this sale is probably paltry. No way he could even turn any profit. And now, to incur additional costs. This is a very stressful situation to be in.

it's logical. remember that basically it's his wife's messy job that has gotten us in this.
let me give you an example.
gutz's position are from Singapore

there's A, from Australia, buying a 5kg box
there's B, from US, buying a 2kg box

assume that the shipping price from singapore to:

- Aus (5kg) is $25
- Aus (2kg) is $15

- US (5kg) is $60
- US(2kg) is $40

IF his wife are THAT messed up, to send a 5kg box to US and 2kg box to AUS,
so the calculation will be

money received from buyer: 25+40= $65

money spend: 60+15=$75

that's already $10 loss.

this is really messed up, i hope we can solve this puzzle altogether..

and remind me not to get a wife.
by the way, my approach for this problem is;

can you identify what packet (we can raw-calculate the thing by size)was sent to who? at least you still have the shipping receipt, right?

As a married person, and a person of responsibility, I'd never throw my wife under the bus like this.  We're dealing with him, not his wife.  And it's his responsibility, not his wife's.  There should have been constraints placed to account for this.  But that's hindsight at this point.  I personally think we should take his wife out of the equation, especially as we're not talking with her, so don't know both sides.

In the end, this was a business arrangement.  And a test of character in these transactions.  As I'd not been burned before, I forgot this fact.  We need to deal with this dispassionately and based on the facts of the situation. 

And I can't say this enough... I wouldn't try to manually correct things just because you can locate who has your package.

• Some packages don't seem to be a complete order, at least from evidence so far
• It reduces your chances of having a successful dispute
• There are people not on this forum, or this was there first exposure to the forum.[/i]
  
  • Some people will go down in relative package value.  Some people have the potential to go way up.[/i]
    
  I've PM'd who I think my package belongs to.  But he has not responded, and indeed has not been active on the forum.  The assumptions in the users correcting this is that everyone can just get their packages.  This is not the case because of this reason, and the double selling.

[Fire Brand]

How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment  made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.

One would hope he has a conscience.

He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?


On a different matter as with what gutz says I wouldn't trust anyone now saying they got the wrong order or less as I feel like a load of people will just straight defraud him for more money now, unfortunate situation for both party's to be in

[[Lewynlight]]

As a married person, and a person of responsibility, I'd never throw my wife under the bus like this.  We're dealing with him, not his wife.  And it's his responsibility, not his wife's.  There should have been constraints placed to account for this.  But that's hindsight at this point.  I personally think we should take his wife out of the equation, especially as we're not talking with her, so don't know both sides.

In the end, this was a business arrangement.  And a test of character in these transactions.  As I'd not been burned before, I forgot this fact.  We need to deal with this dispassionately and based on the facts of the situation. 
[/quote]

i agreed. basically when you're using your family member (that can't know the difference between granite set and a unicomp buckling spring keycaps) to pack and ship your things, you're already making one mistakes. didn't supervising it, and that's two mistakes. and it seems that his wife can't be patient too, bcause all the post gutz's making is just.. his wife being angry, angry and angry. add that to the equation, and i can only see nightmare.

And I can't say this enough... I wouldn't try to manually correct things just because you can locate who has your package.

• Some packages don't seem to be a complete order, at least from evidence so far
• It reduces your chances of having a successful dispute
• There are people not on this forum, or this was there first exposure to the forum.[/i]
  
  • Some people will go down in relative package value.  Some people have the potential to go way up.[/i]
    
  I've PM'd who I think my package belongs to.  But he has not responded, and indeed has not been active on the forum.  The assumptions in the users correcting this is that everyone can just get their packages.  This is not the case because of this reason, and the double selling.

add people's honesty into it. and boom.
my package weren't worth that much, but i've used my entire 1 month allowance to buy it. and the one who have contacted me only get a bit of my package. the rest are all unknown. we're on the same boat, basically.[/list]

[HoffmanMyster]

How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment  made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.

One would hope he has a conscience.

He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?

That was in response to the comment about it being easier for him to "just close up shop and disappear".  And if he does make things right, that's great, but the response so far doesn't exactly instill the most confidence.

[Skysophrenic]

How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment  made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.

One would hope he has a conscience.

He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?


On a different matter as with what gutz says I wouldn't trust anyone now saying they got the wrong order or less as I feel like a load of people will just straight defraud him for more money now, unfortunate situation for both party's to be in

I can't speak for others, but I've been reaching out to many users to compile items that were ordered (and confirmed), and comparing them to what was received. It's true, people might not be totally honest. It's true that what chuckdee has said, that if users act before making claims it will hurt their ability to make a claim.

I am personally burned by $400, and damn it the number of items double sold or just not showing up will undoubtedly result in someone getting burned. But my goal isn't to get 100% satisfaction for buyers anymore, that's impossible given the circumstances. But I want to at least help as many people as possible get closure once the appropriate actions are taken up with paypal/whoever else. Not everyone will be satisfied, not everyone will be honest. But if I can help equalise or flatten some of the loss/gains and distribute what items are out there to people who bought them, then that's definitely a better end to where we are now.

[E3E]

You're a saint, Beserkerfan. I'm such a terrible person. I apologize greatly for the issues I have caused. Really, everyone should understand your side of the story. Please, you don't make mistakes.

[biocalves]

I have (been) compiling(ed) a semi-thorough list of pm's of you confirming orders, payment details and comparing it to what was received by users. I have done it from a very bottoms up approach, with limited resources of knowing who even bought stuff from you.

You who stood at the top, the control center, the financial hub of your sales and logistics operation, should have been able to manage everything better. What you have essentially done is walk into the room, and announce "hey guys, I'm an important guy who works way too hard so you guys should all feel sorry for me, and not be angry that I screwed you all over."

There is a very big difference between a mistake, and negligence. This is the latter. Get off your high horse and admit that you've basically done whatever the hell you wanted with stuff because you had no respect for anybody else's transactions. You set a mutual agreement between buyer (you) and seller (us) and simply not carry through. It is a lack of responsibility in carrying out the sale, and a lack of accountability in following through.

The problem here isn't the sale. The problem here is your attitude and approach to taking responsibility.

This is exactly how I feel. I wanted to make concise points but every time I start writing a post it devolves into a 2 page rant, so I'll just say OP isn't the only one with a busy life and if you couldn't handle a sale of this magnitude you shouldn't have done it. People congregate to GH because of their passion for mechanicals, so we are bound to empathize with your situation and sure there are probably quite a few people who jumped in to buy things from you because you had great prices, but I honestly bought little knicknacks that I could live without to help clear some stuff out. What you've essentially done is preyed on the community who most likely understood your situation and took advantage. Given what this hobby costs, for me personally $130 isnt' a big loss, but rather an annoyance. What infuriates me is that you've put a dent in what has been and still is my current favorite board to be on with your attitude, and that, I will not forget.

[chuckdee]

You're a saint, Beserkerfan. I'm such a terrible person. I apologize greatly for the issues I have caused. Really, everyone should understand your side of the story. Please, you don't make mistakes.

Can we try to keep conversation above this level?

One would hope he has a conscience.

He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?


On a different matter as with what gutz says I wouldn't trust anyone now saying they got the wrong order or less as I feel like a load of people will just straight defraud him for more money now, unfortunate situation for both party's to be in

That is mitigation- especially towards collections by payment agencies, i.e. to show that he's operating in good faith.  In my accounting, however, he received 100% of the funds.  100% of the funds should go towards correcting if one is actually trying to rectify, perhaps minus additional shipping costs, but if he took that on himself rather than notifying the ones concerned and trying to work things out, that's even questionable.  The first thing in this towards both parties getting on a better feeling would be a true accounting of amounts collected.  The only money that is truly gone is that paid towards shipping.

[trenzafeeds]

wew lordy I am continuously impressed by the number of memes generated by a simple close-out sale. keep 'em coming folks

[E3E]

You're a saint, Beserkerfan. I'm such a terrible person. I apologize greatly for the issues I have caused. Really, everyone should understand your side of the story. Please, you don't make mistakes.

Can we try to keep conversation above this level?

Ya know, it's hard not to feel personally annoyed with someone who scapegoats you for no good reason and then tries to whitewash all the mix-ups they've had with orders they've sent out, right? Sounds a little bit like some double standards there, right?

Anyway, I'll step away from this thread. These orders and whatever has to be sorted in that vein do not concern me. Good luck to all who had their orders screwed up by Beserkerfan. I wish the best for you--the recipients.

Hopefully things get sorted.

[chuckdee]

wew lordy I am continuously impressed by the number of memes generated by a simple close-out sale. keep 'em coming folks

Thanks for the injected levity.  It got a laugh out of me.  And it wasn't totally sarcastic.

What memes have you collected so far?

You're a saint, Beserkerfan. I'm such a terrible person. I apologize greatly for the issues I have caused. Really, everyone should understand your side of the story. Please, you don't make mistakes.

Can we try to keep conversation above this level?

Ya know, it's hard not to feel personally annoyed with someone who scapegoats you for no good reason and then tries to whitewash all the mix-ups they've had with orders they've sent out, right? Sounds a little bit like some double standards there, right?

Anyway, I'll step away from this thread. These orders and whatever has to be sorted in that vein does not concern me. Good luck to all who had their orders screwed up by Beserkerfan. I wish the best for you--the recipients.

Hopefully things get sorted.

I'm trying to be constructive.  If this degenerates into name-calling and negative emotions, it's less likely to get corrected in any good way.  Feelings are high.  When someone responds in a paypal dispute with thinly-veiled threats- yes, that makes me mad.  But that anger in and of itself is not constructive.  So I'm trying to keep it constructive, and be aboveboard with all concerned.  I'm also conscious that this is a lot of people's first contact with the board, and even if PSA's are there, and it's not everyone's fault, it reflects badly on a community that I've come, in a short time, to really be invested in.  So it was just a reminder, and perhaps food for thought, and I apologize if it came off otherwise.  I'm trying to remind myself as much as everyone else involved, to try to take the high road in this, and work on solutions, not blame.  If we concentrate on that, and coming together as a community, something that's bad can possibly at least have some positive outcome, right?

[Photekq]

This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.

[WhitePlate]

Berserk, I ordered the 87 blank zinc caps and didn't receive the full set.  Instead I got the 37 set.  Please pm me when possible.

[HannahPeach]

I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.

I'm 100% sure that this will work out perfectly for you, run away and the problems will basically just fade.

[Venatorious]

This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.

Ivanovich ones count as scams right?

Nvm that's actually really obvious

[Skysophrenic]

In your words:

Let’s be realistic about this.

All you've done is whine about your troubles instead of taking the steps to fix it. That same attitude translates and represents you and your mindset to how you approach the sales. The majority of people played to your rules - followed your requests when it came to payment terms, to requesting items or being clear in communication.

After getting a bunch of unconstructive demands from irate buyers... I’ll tell you all the unvarnished truth.

You instead deflect towards your wife, deflect towards work, deflect towards other people, but the fact of the matter is, the main character of the world isn't you and your hard and stressful life. What you did was neglect buyer/seller trust, neglect all the people who vouched for you, and neglect the importance of responsibility. Own your problems and fix them - truth is, the community shouldn't have to do your job.

the more I read the worse it gets.

[ceflame]

This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.

off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol

[Saiph]

This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.

off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol

I thought it was just some random girl  )

[TerryMathews]

I didn't buy from you so I don't have any skin in the game, but as someone who's been buying and selling online longer than some of you have been online I have to say your behavior is disgusting.

These people bought from you. They fulfilled their end of the bargain. You need to fulfill your end. Taking the money and signing off is terrible, and in some jurisdictions is a crime. Put your big person pants on and handle your ****.

[Photekq]

off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol

0/10 lewd, 10/10 qt my man

[Crossfire]

alh84001 wrote:
Which one in the pics is Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid TKL?

berserkfan wrote:
My God, please, browse my albums. Surely you cannot fail to recognize a CM QFR? I believe I even pictured it with a box and it had its stock keycaps

My answer
Sectors C, J, B, M and P are a complete anarchy...It's the attitude you've got that discourages many of us from buying anything from you in the first place.
GLWS, I had my money ready but you won't see a single penny from me.
Crossfire▼
Post29 Mar 2016, 09:22

I've posted this on 29 march on DT where the same user has shown his attitude towards a potential buyers. A big red flag for me and I'm really hoping you guys solve/refund your money and stuff with this guy.

[Venatorious]

This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.

off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol

Seconded

[audax989]

I am saddened by the events that have been transpiring from this sale. I wanted to do you a favor by sending the money as a gift in order to mitigate the paypal fees since, you made it seem that you were already losing money on this. I understand your situation and willingly agreed to your terms. I know I only ordered $41 worth of keycaps but, what concerns me the most is not the money but, my sense of trust with people like you. During our conversation you seemed a trustworthy person who knows his stuff hence, the reason I trusted you. Now all that is shattered.

[Baddy126]

^

[Sneaky Potato]

I had a terrible selling experience in April. I wish to just walk away from it all.

Wife is angry at me. I deserve the punishment.

I'm guessing you're going to have a lot more than an angry wife to deal with.

I think the biggest disappointment is the fact that these kinds of things break major trust with the community. You don't just get to "walk away from it all" when you owe people money or gave goods that were different from what was promised.

I hope everyone who payed this buffoon is able to gain some kind of restitution. PayPal is usually in favor of the buyer, so if you guys used them for payment you should be able to get something back. Don't let him tell you that "not everyone will get a refund, sorry". Charge back your order. Dispute the transaction. There need to be consequences for this kind of thing, and by charging back the payment, you're shifting the responsibility back to his shoulders (or wallet). Let him figure out how he's going to pay back PayPal, not you guys. I believe it's actually his responsibility to make shipping arrangements to get his stuff back if he sent you the wrong items, so technically you can get your money back and let him figure out how to get his stuff back.

That sounds harsh, but I've dealt with these kinds of people a lot outside of the keyboard world. There's always a story, but actions speak the loudest.

[TerryMathews]

I believe it's actually his responsibility to make shipping arrangements to get his stuff back if he sent you the wrong items, so technically you can get your money back and let him figure out how to get his stuff back.

You are 100% correct, and to expound on this: he is responsible to make return shipping arrangements in advance either in the form of paying for the return shipping charges or providing a prepaid label. If you ship the stuff back assuming he will credit you for the return shipping, you might get stiffed and PayPal won't cover it because it wasn't a part of the original transaction.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Reasons like this are why i don't involve myself in mass sales...or group buys...or similar.  Goodluck to everyone involved hope it works out in the end...thankfully at least those who paid via Paypal have some solid protection. 

[LeCornet]

I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.

I'm 100% sure that this will work out perfectly for you, run away and the problems will basically just fade.

Well it did work for some folks...

[Venatorious]

*cough* Ivanovich

[SixtyLife]

does anyone know if paypal buyer protection refunds you money even if seller is completely broke?