Author Topic: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.  (Read 16853 times)

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Offline Snowdog993

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Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 12:27:31 »
Okay this came to my mind when I was thinking about the new 104-key design of the Unicomp keyboard.
Now I know WHY they made it that way, and better yet, you can have a 103 just like I have.
The first picture is under the spacebar of my 103.
The next picture is my testing of that key to the left of the right Alt key.
Yep.  That is the right menu button.  It works with the keycap.
Put the standard 101 spacebar back on.
Normal spacebar.
Now that is a steal of a deal!
Hate your 104 and love your 103 folks!

Okay, if you don't have a spare Model M spacebar, just order the 104 and add a large spacebar for $3 more.)
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/SB
(That's better than paying them $10 to TAKE OFF the small spacebar and right windows key and put a long spacebar in place.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 December 2014, 01:10:05 by Snowdog993 »

Offline 0100010

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 14:25:35 »
Yes, that was the whole point of Unicomp making the bottom row change.  So they could support one barrel frame (or chimney plate) and one membrane design, and accommodate 101, 103, 104 and 105 key layouts.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 15:16:52 »
I like 1.5x size keys, but having a dedicated Windows key is a deal maker/breaker for some people.

Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 17:48:52 »
This is somewhat off topic, but back when Unicomp released their new layouts, I remember that in their photos the keycap printing was absolutely terrible.
I'm assuming that you have the post-update 103, so could you give a few words on your keycap printing quality?

(Oh, and where's that tenkeyless they've been promising for months?)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 18:23:05 »

I remember that in their photos the keycap printing was absolutely terrible.

so could you give a few words on your keycap printing quality?


My experience is that it is inconsistent. I had gotten mostly excellent quality from Unicomp until I bought a set a few months ago with green legends that was really bad. And in this case, I would define "bad" as that the legends were in very different places on the key caps, all the way from the upper left corner to a couple that were actually below right of center.

In all fairness, even IBM caps from the 1980s wandered a bit. I bought a Model M that had the legends practically jammed into the upper left corners. And some were heavy and some light, but generally consistent within the sets themselves. Unicomp does print consistent widths and weights, at least in the ones that I have gotten.
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 20:19:54 »
Hmm.
I wasn't aware that the original IBM caps were also off center and inconsistent.
So this means that IBM did a meh job and then Unicomp came along and did a better job until their product line update?
I'm bewildered by this...

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 20:48:43 »
So this means that IBM did a meh job and then Unicomp came along and did a better job until their product line update?
All the IBM legends are much crisper and nicer than Unicomp ones. Especially the earlier ones. There was a bit of variation in legend positioning over the years, but for the most part the IBM legends are pretty nice.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 21:07:09 »
Okay I personally can't tell but see for yourselves.  I'm not an expert on keycaps.
The top two are the IBM WHITE Label 101.
The bottom two are the Unicomp 103. 
They are both nice.
I had to edit because that drop of coffee on the spacebar of the 103 looked pretty bad magnified haha.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 March 2015, 10:38:03 by Snowdog993 »

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 23:20:39 »

(Oh, and where's that tenkeyless they've been promising for months?)

Date:    2014-12-10 16:03:01
Name:    Jeanne Deters
   Printer friendly version

Message:

We are working on a tenkeyless keyboard, however, it is taking longer than anticipated. Look for more news on it in the next several months. Thanks for your interest.

You can follow us on FaceBook: FaceBook.com/pckeyboard

Regards,

Customer Service

Edit: One thing I can say is Unicomp customer service is the very best experience I have ever had.  And Jeanne has helped me on several occasions and I have no complaints whatsoever.  Good people!
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 December 2014, 23:31:14 by Snowdog993 »

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 00:20:20 »

(Oh, and where's that tenkeyless they've been promising for months?)

Date:    2014-12-10 16:03:01
Name:    Jeanne Deters
   Printer friendly version

Message:

We are working on a tenkeyless keyboard, however, it is taking longer than anticipated. Look for more news on it in the next several months. Thanks for your interest.

You can follow us on FaceBook: FaceBook.com/pckeyboard

Regards,

Customer Service

Edit: One thing I can say is Unicomp customer service is the very best experience I have ever had.  And Jeanne has helped me on several occasions and I have no complaints whatsoever.  Good people!

They do have great customer service, twice they have stuffed my order for caps and sent the new ones pretty much no questions asked. I just wish they wouldn't stuff my orders in the first place though, I hate waiting 2 weeks for mah caps. But as you said best customer service, so quick to respond and as painless as possible.

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 09:15:50 »
Okay I personally can't tell but see for yourselves.  I'm not an expert on keycaps.
The top two are the IBM WHITE Label 101.
The bottom two are the Unicomp 103. 
They are both nice.
I had to edit because that drop of coffee on the spacebar of the 103 looked pretty bad magnified haha.

Well. Looks pretty good to me..
I guess they've improved the printing since the product line update...... Or they took the pictures with a bad batch. (No idea why they would do that.)

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 17:25:13 »
Okay I personally can't tell but see for yourselves.  I'm not an expert on keycaps. The top two are the IBM WHITE Label 101. The bottom two are the Unicomp 103. They are both nice.
Yeah, the Unicomp legends are very fuzzy, especially on the keycaps with words on them ("Shift", etc.), and on the symbols in the number row, while the IBM legends are nice and crisp.

Direct comparison crops from your pictures:

« Last Edit: Mon, 29 December 2014, 17:43:22 by jacobolus »

Offline 0100010

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 18:46:11 »
I've seen it both ways - fuzzy legends on old IBM caps as well as crisp.  I have also seen Unicomp caps that looked amazingly crisp, as well as those that are fuzzy.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 21:22:50 »
I think that there's nothing really bad about the "fuzzy" Unicomp caps because in my opinion at least, they fit in better with the rest of the keys, like the letter keys.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 21:50:48 »
Okay I personally can't tell but see for yourselves.  I'm not an expert on keycaps. The top two are the IBM WHITE Label 101. The bottom two are the Unicomp 103. They are both nice.
Yeah, the Unicomp legends are very fuzzy, especially on the keycaps with words on them ("Shift", etc.), and on the symbols in the number row, while the IBM legends are nice and crisp.

I think it's just that they are using a different bolder font.  I guess if you always look at your keycaps with a microscope, there might be a big difference.  To me, they are both fine.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 December 2014, 21:53:54 by Snowdog993 »

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 22:40:17 »
I like 1.5x size keys, but having a dedicated Windows key is a deal maker/breaker for some people.

You still have a dedicated Windows key.  The key between the left Ctrl and Alt is Windows.  The key between the right Alt and Ctrl is Menu.  No deal is broken.  I like the look a lot better than the 104.  But if you insist, you can have the best of both worlds.  A larger spacebar like the traditional 101, or a smaller spacebar with a right Windows key after the shorter spacebar.  It's all good.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 00:12:59 »
I think it's just that they are using a different bolder font.  I guess if you always look at your keycaps with a microscope, there might be a big difference.  To me, they are both fine.
All the letters are bleeding into each-other. It’s plenty possible to have bold fonts that are still crisp with clear boundaries between positive and negative space; these are not only bold but also just fuzzy. Also, the specific glyphs that Unicomp uses for various symbols (especially # @ % and $, but to some extent all of them) are not very good ones to use on a keyboard: I think they just pulled them directly from a computer font file, without consulting an expert. I think Unicomp basically doesn’t have anyone on staff who is super concerned with typography or aesthetics, and doesn’t still have the capability to do dye sublimation as high quality as what IBM was able to do.

Anyway, if the Unicomp ones seem fine, that’s totally fine, don’t worry about it! I personally don’t care too strongly about legends, and am perfectly happy using blank keycaps.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 00:25:28 »
I think it's just that they are using a different bolder font.  I guess if you always look at your keycaps with a microscope, there might be a big difference.  To me, they are both fine.
All the letters are bleeding into each-other. It’s plenty possible to have bold fonts that are still crisp with clear boundaries between positive and negative space; these are not only bold but also just fuzzy. Also, the specific glyphs that Unicomp uses for various symbols (especially # @ % and $, but to some extent all of them) are not very good ones to use on a keyboard: I think they just pulled them directly from a computer font file, without consulting an expert. I think Unicomp basically doesn’t have anyone on staff who is super concerned with typography or aesthetics, and doesn’t still have the capability to do dye sublimation as high quality as what IBM was able to do.

Anyway, if the Unicomp ones seem fine, that’s totally fine, don’t worry about it! I personally don’t care too strongly about legends, and am perfectly happy using blank keycaps.

Uh, okay.  It seems you are the one that isn't very happy about it. You go out of your way to nitpick everything, then you go on to say you use blanks?  Thank you for your opinion.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 01:13:59 »
Uh, okay.  It seems you are the one that isn't very happy about it. You go out of your way to nitpick everything, then you go on to say you use blanks?  Thank you for your opinion.
Huh? Are you trying to pick a fight or something?

Paranoid Android asked: “I wasn't aware that the original IBM caps were also off center and inconsistent. So this means that IBM did a meh job and then Unicomp came along and did a better job until their product line update?”

I answered him, pointing out that IBM has substantially crisper legends, with glyphs that are more carefully designed to look good on keycaps, and generally better quality control, etc. The Unicomp ones are fine for many/most people. However someone who is picky and cares about aesthetics / typography might find them unacceptable.

I’m not “going out of my way to nitpick everything”, I’m just honestly answering someone’s question. If you don’t care for the answer, that’s really not my problem.

Speaking only for myself, I have more than enough IBM keycaps for all the projects I plan to do, so I don’t need to get any keycaps from Unicomp, so it really doesn’t affect me personally, but I would be slightly disappointed to be forced to use Unicomp legends: they’re passable, but mediocre in my opinion. However I think blanks look better than printed legends anyway, in many cases (partly because keyboard legends have in general really ****ty typography; blanks are much harder to screw up).

I honestly don’t give a damn what keycaps you use on your keyboard. Use whatever makes you happy, it doesn’t affect me in any way whatsoever.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 01:57:53 »
Uh, okay.  It seems you are the one that isn't very happy about it. You go out of your way to nitpick everything, then you go on to say you use blanks?  Thank you for your opinion.
Huh? Are you trying to pick a fight or something?

Paranoid Android asked: “I wasn't aware that the original IBM caps were also off center and inconsistent. So this means that IBM did a meh job and then Unicomp came along and did a better job until their product line update?”

I answered him, pointing out that IBM has substantially crisper legends, with glyphs that are more carefully designed to look good on keycaps, and generally better quality control, etc. The Unicomp ones are fine for many/most people. However someone who is picky and cares about aesthetics / typography might find them unacceptable.

I’m not “going out of my way to nitpick everything”, I’m just honestly answering someone’s question. If you don’t care for the answer, that’s really not my problem.

Speaking only for myself, I have more than enough IBM keycaps for all the projects I plan to do, so I don’t need to get any keycaps from Unicomp, so it really doesn’t affect me personally, but I would be slightly disappointed to be forced to use Unicomp legends: they’re passable, but mediocre in my opinion. However I think blanks look better than printed legends anyway, in many cases (partly because keyboard legends have in general really ****ty typography; blanks are much harder to screw up).

I honestly don’t give a damn what keycaps you use on your keyboard. Use whatever makes you happy, it doesn’t affect me in any way whatsoever.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything at all.  I understand how you feel about it.  I'm not picking a fight either.  I am just saying that it seems very strange after all the trouble you went to, you had to say "I use blanks"

I find that kind of strange for you to say that.

I would never pick a fight with you at all.  I understand your point of view very clearly.  You really got bent out of shape over this.
It is absolutely NOT worthwhile to fight over something so insignificant especially when you are magnifying an image 10x larger to "see" something imperfect.

Okay.  You're right and I am wrong.  I misunderstood what you meant.  I honestly took what you said the wrong way.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 December 2014, 02:16:58 by Snowdog993 »

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 02:58:07 »

Anyway, if the Unicomp ones seem fine, that’s totally fine, don’t worry about it! I personally don’t care too strongly about legends, and am perfectly happy using blank keycaps.


That's the comment that made me wonder why you went out of your way in the first place.  You made it sound like "you don't care" and then you even go so far as to say you are perfectly happy using "blank keycaps".

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 03:08:36 »
You really got bent out of shape over this.
I think I’m badly communicating / you’re misinterpreting my tone here. (This is something which easily happens in a pure text medium.)

I’m not bent out of shape. The quality of typography and printing generally is something I am sensitive to, but the appearance of other people’s keycaps is not at all important. Use what you like, and if you’re happy with something you use, then great!

On the other hand, I do place value on clearing up misconceptions, teaching people about how various things work, and correcting incorrect statements.

When I point out that Unicomp’s legends in many ways fall short of IBMs, I’m not trying to make some kind of absolute statement about what anyone’s standards should be in keycaps. I’m not angry about this, or even mildly agitated. (I do tend to write too much though.) My goal, again, is to keep the thread accurate. I’m not trying to tear Unicomp down: I think they do the best work they know how, and I’m grateful that they still exist. However, their keycap printing is, objectively, as a simple statement of fact, inferior to IBMs.

[[[
Side note:

Speaking only for myself, I find all the IBM keycap legends (as well as Lexmark and Unicomp ones) after about 1982 to be relatively ugly and unpleasant. I don’t really like the color schemes too well. I think the keyboards look very corporate, and waste huge amounts of desk space. But they have a kind of clunky-80s-office charm to them, and I sort of enjoy them for how much they clash aesthetically with more recent other computer hardware. I had great fun using a Model M along with an OLPC XO laptop (the tiny green ones) for a while in 2006. Using these keyboards makes an aggressive statement in any office, and sometimes it’s a fun kind of statement to make: I’m here, I’m big, I’m beige, I’m loud, deal with it.

However, IBM’s legends, for all that, are still better than at least 90% of the keycap legends produced in the last 30 years. Most computer makers are really shockingly bad at anything requiring the slightest bit of taste or aesthetic sensitivity. I suspect they might outsource their graphic design work to a bored middle school student somewhere (maybe the nephew of an executive?).

The tall sculpted spherical double-shot keycaps of the 1960s and 70s, with the letters drawn by an engraver, were in my opinion the high water mark for pretty keycaps, even though the glyphs themselves were often inconsistent and idiosyncratic. Or in other words, nearly every typewriter from before 1970 looks better than nearly every computer keyboard from after 1980. Only a small handful of keycap designs over the last 30 years have managed to look really good while avoiding obvious typographic errors.

Personally I wish folks making dyesubs were a bit more adventurous in their typographic choices. Helvetica is really boring and was played out already 30 years ago.
]]]
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 December 2014, 03:22:48 by jacobolus »

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 03:20:27 »
Here's where I can agree with you.  I wish Unicomp, (or anyone) would make Model M keycaos with the Selectric Engraved Fonts.
I believe those were perfect to me.  (I think it's a font called RAND?)  It would be nice to see an M with that font and the small print on the legends done in an Art-Deco kind of way.

« Last Edit: Thu, 12 March 2015, 10:38:24 by Snowdog993 »

Offline fanpeople

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 03:30:26 »
Here's where I can agree with you.  I wish Unicomp, (or anyone) would make Model M keycaos with the Selectric Engraved Fonts.
I believe those were perfect to me.  (I think it's a font called RAND?)  It would be nice to see an M with that font and the small print on the legends done in an Art-Deco kind of way.

Forget the fonts.... Give me those caps. There is something so historically futuristic about the shape it makes me want to slip on a prairie dress and ask Mr Hyde what he would like to drink with his lunch, before getting stuck into converting my shorthand from yesterdays meeting into a dossier for Larry the stoner archivist.

 

Offline 0100010

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 09:28:02 »
I like 1.5x size keys, but having a dedicated Windows key is a deal maker/breaker for some people.

You still have a dedicated Windows key.  The key between the left Ctrl and Alt is Windows.  The key between the right Alt and Ctrl is Menu.  No deal is broken.  I like the look a lot better than the 104.  But if you insist, you can have the best of both worlds.  A larger spacebar like the traditional 101, or a smaller spacebar with a right Windows key after the shorter spacebar.  It's all good.

Maybe not everyone has seen the layout image from Unicomp?

  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 10:07:26 »
I like 1.5x size keys, but having a dedicated Windows key is a deal maker/breaker for some people.

You still have a dedicated Windows key.  The key between the left Ctrl and Alt is Windows.  The key between the right Alt and Ctrl is Menu.  No deal is broken.  I like the look a lot better than the 104.  But if you insist, you can have the best of both worlds.  A larger spacebar like the traditional 101, or a smaller spacebar with a right Windows key after the shorter spacebar.  It's all good.

Maybe not everyone has seen the layout image from Unicomp?

Show Image


Hmm.
I prefer the old 104 layout out of all of them because it just seems more natural and uniform...
Some people say that they changed their product line because of cost saving, but I don't see how designing and molding a whole new size of key is cost effective...

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 10:07:34 »
I like 1.5x size keys, but having a dedicated Windows key is a deal maker/breaker for some people.

You still have a dedicated Windows key.  The key between the left Ctrl and Alt is Windows.  The key between the right Alt and Ctrl is Menu.  No deal is broken.  I like the look a lot better than the 104.  But if you insist, you can have the best of both worlds.  A larger spacebar like the traditional 101, or a smaller spacebar with a right Windows key after the shorter spacebar.  It's all good.

Maybe not everyone has seen the layout image from Unicomp?

Show Image


Hmm.
I prefer the old 104 layout out of all of them because it just seems more natural and uniform...
Some people say that they changed their product line because of cost saving, but I don't see how designing and molding a whole new size of key is cost effective...

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 10:08:56 »
Oops double post, something about being sent to the wrong database....
Can't figure out how to delete it....... Help please?

Offline 0100010

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 11:49:49 »
You didn't read my signature....

What new size of key?  They have 1.25x, 1.5x and 1x for the mods, and either a 7x or 6.25x spacebar.  Only thing that changed is the barrel positions on the right side.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 12:21:34 »
You didn't read my signature....

What new size of key?  They have 1.25x, 1.5x and 1x for the mods, and either a 7x or 6.25x spacebar.  Only thing that changed is the barrel positions on the right side.

But the error is one that I need to ignore so......
(Oh noes, I quoted you again)

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 12:24:53 »
You didn't read my signature....

What new size of key?  They have 1.25x, 1.5x and 1x for the mods, and either a 7x or 6.25x spacebar.  Only thing that changed is the barrel positions on the right side.

I don't know if I'm blind, but the Windows key on the new layouts seem to be a different size than all the others.... Or is it just an illusion because the other keys around it are big.... Hmm.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 12:31:02 »
It is a different layout entirely.  The discontinued layout is the old-style MS Windows layout with the ALT key by the spacebar and the 1.5x keys all across the bottom row.  The spacing is different between the keys.  They changed this to make it easier to make the Classic 101 and the newer 104's on the same barrels.  (Technically, allowing them to manufacture many different layouts on the same chassis)
  It's a cool idea too.  You can have the existing 101 layout with the new 103 layout.  Since the change, I like it.  Any person used to using a Classic 101 layout won't be distracted by the different layout on the bottom row.  It was something that should have been done a long time ago.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 December 2014, 12:37:01 by Snowdog993 »

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 12:33:32 »
It is a different layout entirely.  The discontinued layout is the old-style MS Windows layout with the ALT key by the spacebar and the 1.5x keys all across the bottom row.  The spacing is different between the keys.  They did this to make it easier to make the Classic 101 and the newer 104's on the same barrels.  (Technically, allowing them to manufacture many different layouts on the same chassis)
  It's a cool idea too.  You can have the existing 101 layout with the new 103 layout.  Since the change, I like it.  Any person used to using a Classic 101 layout won't be distracted by the different layout on the bottom row.  It was something that should have been done a long time ago.

So the 101 is basically a 103/104 chassis with a different case?
And that is why it allows them to save money on their keyboards?
Hmm...

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 12:38:26 »
Yes!  I had to edit my post a little.  (They changed this).  But yes, that is the point.  It's a fantastic idea.

Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 12:52:52 »
Yes!  I had to edit my post a little.  (They changed this).  But yes, that is the point.  It's a fantastic idea.

I guess it is a fantastic idea..
It just looks a tiny bit weird for me.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 30 December 2014, 13:25:21 »
Let me explain.  If you wanted, (I suppose) you could now buy a Unicomp 104 key keyboard, and a long spacebar.  Once you get it, you can remove the keys between the Ctrl and Alt on both sides, the short spacebar and the right windows key.  You put the long spacebar in, and drop the top off an old 101 if you so desire.  (You would probably want the top off the newer blue label 42H1292 boards because the LED's are located at the top and not at the bottom)

The pictures are for illustration only.

Edit: Another thought that came to mind is you can still have the 103.  You just take a Dremel and remove the keyblockers between both Ctrl and Alt keys on the bezel.  Put the left windows key in, and the right menu key in. Then you have the 103 layout.  Either way.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 December 2014, 15:30:30 by Snowdog993 »

Offline dwasifar

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 15:13:29 »
The first picture is under the spacebar of my 103.
Okay, if you don't have a spare Model M spacebar, just order the 104 and add a large spacebar for $3 more.)
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/SB
(That's better than paying them $10 to TAKE OFF the small spacebar and right windows key and put a long spacebar in place.
Just to be clear, you found the chimney AND the spring for the Windows key under the long spacebar of your 103?

I have a 104 and a long spacebar on the way to me from Unicomp right now, and I want to be sure I do the conversion right.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 16:33:58 »
Correct.

Offline dwasifar

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 10:00:48 »
Done.  Used a plastic knife from the cafeteria to pry the keys up.  Took literally 30 seconds.  Works great.  Thanks for the tip.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 10:05:23 »
Glad I helped someone!  I was thinking I did this for nothing!  (No pun intended.)

Offline dwasifar

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 10:11:48 »
Hey, you saved me seven bucks.  What's not to like?  :)

Next up is my Classic.  I bought a set of blank keycaps along with it, planning to switch them out once I got in my groove with it.  That time is coming.  So there's a lot more key pulling in my future.

Offline ander

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 07:13:52 »
I received a Unicomp Ultra Classic yesterday. It feels quite solid, and I love typing on it—and the clackiness, of course. But I must agree, the printing quality is quite poor. Many of my caps look even less distinct than those here.

The alphanumerics in the main area are fine, as are the F-keys. But the word keys are in font that's obviously narrower and bolder than the original IBM font, and the characters aren't sharp at all.

Apparently, Unicomps used to look much better. Wonder what happened?

Original Model M caps are available (e.g. here at clickykeyboards.com), but by my estimate it'd cost more than half as much as the KB to go that route.

Maybe it shouldn't bug me so much, but I may end up returning this KB because of how it looks. It's too bad, as I'd really like to support them in the tradition they're trying to continue.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 February 2015, 07:16:26 by ander »
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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 12:02:06 »
I received a Unicomp Ultra Classic yesterday. It feels quite solid, and I love typing on it—and the clackiness, of course. But I must agree, the printing quality is quite poor. Many of my caps look even less distinct than those here.

The alphanumerics in the main area are fine, as are the F-keys. But the word keys are in font that's obviously narrower and bolder than the original IBM font, and the characters aren't sharp at all.

Apparently, Unicomps used to look much better. Wonder what happened?

Original Model M caps are available (e.g. here at clickykeyboards.com), but by my estimate it'd cost more than half as much as the KB to go that route.

Maybe it shouldn't bug me so much, but I may end up returning this KB because of how it looks. It's too bad, as I'd really like to support them in the tradition they're trying to continue.

Maybe that would be a message to Unicomp to improve their quality control?  If nobody does anything, nothing gets done.

Offline ander

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 18:31:20 »
Well, I think I was just being dramatic. I'd just gotten the KB—and having seen so many original Model M's, and how sharp they looked, I was just disappointed that Unicomp's Model M's weren't made with the same attention to their appearance.

But again, it's just their appearance. Mechanically, Unicomps are as cool to type on as any IBM—just as solid, fast 'n' clicky.

I don't know why Unicomp moved to a different key font. As they bought IBM/Lexmark's original assembly equipment, you'd think their design would be the same down to that detail. But IBM has always been very picky about how their products look, and the original Model M's look is very distinctive. Maybe they gave Unicomp a hard time about making KBs that looked just like IBMs. Or maybe Unicomp worried IBM would do that. Or maybe they just wanted to make KBs that looked different, because they were a different company.

No matter why they did it, it doesn't look like they had the talent onhand to do it more capably. Product typography is very specialized. Judging from Unicomp's emphasis on physical quality rather than esthetics (their website is another example), I imagine most of their people are engineers and technicians, not artists.

So they must've just looked at some fonts and found one similar to IBMs, but different enough that it couldn't be mistaken for it. Then when they tried dyeing with it, its line weight turned out to be too light—so rather than finding another font whose roman (normal) weight worked better, they just used the first font's bold version. Unfortunately, bolding doesn't create a new font, just a heavier one—it's designed for occasional emphasis, not for labeling a whole product (see "Bold or italic: One or the other, as little as possible").

Most KB makers pad-print their keytops; it's fast and cheap, but the legends aren't durable. Ironically, if Unicomp had used pad-printing, their legends would look sharper (before they started wearing off!). But they continued the original, more costly, more demanding dye-sublimation process, because—like the buckling springs in their keys—it means their legends won't wear out, ever. You have to admire them for that. It's just too bad that they didn't have someone in the loop who knew more about typography.

Judging from photos of earlier Unicomps, even their new design used to look better. I don't know what's required for dye sublimation on a commercial scale, but you can assume it involves some costly tooling-up. Maybe the registration starts to drift after a while, and Unicomp hasn't had the resources to redo it (or they didn't consider it that important). Or maybe they no longer have the staff around who could get more consistent results with their current setup.

Anyway, I'm not sending back my Ultra Classic. It's too good a KB, and it's too fun having a real BS KB that was made only a month ago. (And hey, you're not supposed to look at your hands when you type anyway.)

Bottom line: If you order a Unicomp and expect it be as elegant as an original Model M, you'll be disappointed. But if you want a great-feeling KB that'll last longer than anything else you own—and you don't mind that it looks like it was made in East Europe in the 1950s—this is the KB for you.  :?)
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 February 2015, 18:45:00 by ander »
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 12 February 2015, 18:57:07 »
I am, and have always been, a great champion for Unicomp, but the last set I bought with green legends on pearl/pebble was disappointing.

Fuzzy or weak legends would have been tolerable, but the random placement on the caps was painful. Especially the keys with words written on them, being too low or too close to the right side .....

Made me very sad. Still, even at that, a great-looking set!
 
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Offline ander

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 15:52:41 »
Speaking only for myself, I find all the IBM keycap legends (as well as Lexmark and Unicomp ones) after about 1982 to be relatively ugly and unpleasant... However, IBM’s legends, for all that, are still better than at least 90% of the keycap legends produced in the last 30 years. Most computer makers are really shockingly bad at anything requiring the slightest bit of taste or aesthetic sensitivity... The tall sculpted spherical double-shot keycaps of the 1960s and 70s, with the letters drawn by an engraver, were in my opinion the high water mark for pretty keycaps, even though the glyphs themselves were often inconsistent and idiosyncratic. Or in other words, nearly every typewriter from before 1970 looks better than nearly every computer keyboard from after 1980...

Really? Even keyboards like this? It actually looks rather Model M-like to me—and you don't find that elegant? I could also post a photo of my Toshiba laptop's keyboard, whose font choices I particularly like, and which I'd compare favourably with any other keys I've seen.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 February 2015, 08:09:39 by ander »
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 17:33:36 »
Your keyboard is good-looking - except that those secondary legends are completely insensitive and hideous!
Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
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Offline ander

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 15 February 2015, 08:15:32 »

Ah—sorta like these?:



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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 15 February 2015, 08:30:48 »

Of course nowadays, with so many sources for custom caps, any Model M can be made tasteful and elegant:





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Offline wyatt8740

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Re: Unicomp 104 to Unicomp 103 conversion for $0.
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 15 February 2015, 13:32:27 »
Why do people get custom keycaps like that for games? When it comes to games, my thoughts are "If you have to look at the keys, you're doing it wrong". Imagine playing quake or something and having to look down to find where the WASD keys are.

I wish Unicomp would still do black keys with white pad-printed lettering like they used to. Asked them yesterday and they only do dye-sublimated, meaning the closest I can get is gray.
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IBM Model M 1386303, 1987 / IBM Model M 1391401, 1993 / IBM Model M 59G7980, 1993 / Unicomp "Mini M" UT40E7A (modded), 2021 / Dell AT101W, 1994 (Black Alps) / Apple Extended Keyboard (Orange Alps), 1987 / Sun Type 5, unknown year (Rubber Dome)