Topre Realforce worth it?

[maroder]

Hi,

I am currently using MX-Clears and MX-Blacks and would like a new "experience". So I am planing on getting a Topre Realforce. As this is quite a bit of money, I would like to know if anyone got a Topre and is willing to share their experience.

Is it really worth the money? How loud is the spacebar and enter key on the Realforce? This is the only thing that currently annoys me on my Cherry switches. My Clears have a loud spacebar, the Blacks have a rattly Enter key - I should swap the switches for these keys

Cheers
Maroder

[sth]

get a used one. they're great.

[Air tree]

Get a 55g and never look back..

From my experience (With the HHKB, but have tried the realforce)  the spacebar has a nice thunk sound, whilst still pretty quiet and the enter key is pretty quiet as well.

AND YES, it's totally worth the money...


So far all the switches that I have tried haven't been able to match the love I have for topre. It's smooth, has a soft bottom out, and a glorious sound to boot.


But again 55g or bust.   

[maroder]

Get a 55g and never look back..

Hm, ok I was planing on getting the 45g, as this is the only one available with the Layout in ISO/German.
45g not worth it then?

[Defect]

Have two realforces (55g and variable).  IMO value is between $150-180 USD.  At 200+ you are paying for hype and label.

[Lurch]

Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber.

[Air tree]

Get a 55g and never look back..

Hm, ok I was planing on getting the 45g, as this is the only one available with the Layout in ISO/German.
45g not worth it then?

Oh my bad, I didn't stop to think that you can't use EK.

But anyways 45g is fine, I'm just partial to 55g. 

I'm sure you'll be fine with 45g, but when available, I recommend 55g because I feel the extra tactility adds to the switch.

You might be able to find a used one or 55g on Desk Thority, as they are a more international community vs Geekhacks more NA based community. Their classifieds might be more plentiful with international people, or they might know other vendors for the EU.

[Shaussman]

Have two realforces (55g and variable).  IMO value is between $150-180 USD.  At 200+ you are paying for hype and label.

So something like a Novatouch would be in the right price range then, or specifically the realforces are worth $150-180?

[pesky brat]

I've used both 45g and 55g Topre, and while I enjoy both, my preference certainly goes to the 55g. 

I should also mention, since nobody else has commented on it, that on my Realforce 87UB there is a slight rattle to the spacebar, leading to it being a little louder than the regular keys.

[maroder]

I've used both 45g and 55g Topre, and while I enjoy both, my preference certainly goes to the 55g. 

I should also mention, since nobody else has commented on it, that on my Realforce 87UB there is a slight rattle to the spacebar, leading to it being a little louder than the regular keys.

I do not mind a little rattle. As long as its not completely loose and rattling so bad, that you have the feeling it will fall off any minute

Oh my bad, I didn't stop to think that you can't use EK.

But anyways 45g is fine, I'm just partial to 55g. 

I'm sure you'll be fine with 45g, but when available, I recommend 55g because I feel the extra tactility adds to the switch.

You might be able to find a used one or 55g on Desk Thority, as they are a more international community vs Geekhacks more NA based community. Their classifieds might be more plentiful with international people, or they might know other vendors for the EU.

Sadly the ISO countries are somewhat neglected regarding Topre keyboards. The Keyboard Company in GB is the only shop in Europe I could find which has the  Realforce produced exclusively with German layout. I Unfortunately they are not planing on getting 55g in the near future. But I'll check with Deskthority anyway. Maybe I am lucky

[Bromono]

I love my 55g real force. great board! I threw it in a digilog case and it is now my daily driver.

[Hypersphere]

Yes, my RF87UB boards were worth it, at least to me. I have both the 45g and 55g models, and I like both of them. I have not tried the variable-weight RF, but I anticipate that I would not like it, because I believe that the 30g keys would be too light for me.

Among Topre-switch boards, I've tried the Leopold FC660C, RF87UB 45g and 55g, and HHKB Pro 2. My favorite form factor and layout is that of the HHKB Pro 2, but I find the sound and feel of the RF to be more refined. I like the sound and feel of the FC660C, but I didn't like the keycaps that were available at the time, and I prefer either the TKL form factor/layout of the RF87U or the form factor/layout of the HHKB.

I've also tried the CM Novatouch, which has hybrid Topre switches with stems compatible with Cherry mx keycaps. I liked it the least of the Topre-switch boards I've tried, but I think with the addition of silencing rings it would be a contender. Plus it has the added benefit of access to a universe of keycap colors, styles, and materials.

Currently, my daily driver is a black HHKB Pro 2 modded with 55g domes from an RF, silencing rings, and new Topre keycaps (blue alphas, blank black mods, red Esc, and red Fn). If I didn't like the 60% form factor and HHKB layout so much, I would be using an RF87U on a more regular basis.

[GL1TCH3D]

I love my hipro 45g keyboard and my HHKB

[sth]

i've still never used a 55g. i knew i liked 45g as soon as i tried it (first rf then hhkb).

if you are a deskthority member, you can sign up for the real force test tour and try before you buy there are also quite a few german members on DT. if you find yourself in holland let me know and you can try my hhkb as well!

[maroder]

i've still never used a 55g. i knew i liked 45g as soon as i tried it (first rf then hhkb).

if you are a deskthority member, you can sign up for the real force test tour and try before you buy there are also quite a few german members on DT. if you find yourself in holland let me know and you can try my hhkb as well!

Thank you for the offer mate. I will certainly join Deskthority and give the Realforce a try then before buying it

OT: Allright! I just fixed the rattling spacebar on my Pok3r by turning it around 180°. Now the spacebar is much more comfortable to use and this little bugger is near perfect. Maybe this information helps someone with a rattling spacebar.

[Air tree]

i've still never used a 55g. i knew i liked 45g as soon as i tried it (first rf then hhkb).

if you are a deskthority member, you can sign up for the real force test tour and try before you buy there are also quite a few german members on DT. if you find yourself in holland let me know and you can try my hhkb as well!

Thank you for the offer mate. I will certainly join Deskthority and give the Realforce a try then before buying it

OT: Allright! I just fixed the rattling spacebar on my Pok3r by turning it around 180°. Now the spacebar is much more comfortable to use and this little bugger is near perfect. Maybe this information helps someone with a rattling spacebar.

Flipping the spacebar is always the best bet, no matter what the non-flippers on this forum say. 

[madhias]

My Topre Realforce keyboard was the last one I bought (used), and I have to say it is my most favorite one, next to the IBM Model M. I have a 55g TKL Realforce, which produces a gorgeous THOCK or THUNK sound when bottoming out, and it is just satisfying to use it! It is personal preference if you like it of course, but chances are high you'll love it. Try the one at Deskthority of the Realforce Tour from member 002, it is a variable switch model though, but in general it is the same feeling. I also liked MX Clears, but love Topre much more.

[romevi]

Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...

[GL1TCH3D]

Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...

I've seen people that like it. It only favors those who have proper touch typing skills and further only those that have a preference for it

[Air tree]

I haven't heard of many who like it, maybe just for typing, but for anything else, not really..

[saturnotaku]

Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...

I had the silenced variable weight 87U for a spell. There wasn't anything wrong with it, but I happen to prefer the uniformity and feel of the HHKB Type-S.

[GL1TCH3D]

Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...

I had the silenced variable weight 87U for a spell. There wasn't anything wrong with it, but I happen to prefer the uniformity and feel of the HHKB Type-S.

Uniformity is definitely important to me too. I have to have the exact same weighting and switch type across the entire board.

[romevi]

Thanks. I was interested in getting the 104U on EK for the sole purpose of using the caps on the 87U and numpad, but since they have the variable version only I wasn't sure whether to keep it in the end, at least to say I tried it.

Since I do about 95% typing and 5% gaming on the computer which I'll be using it, it sounds pretty inviting.

[GL1TCH3D]

Thanks. I was interested in getting the 104U on EK for the sole purpose of using the caps on the 87U and numpad, but since they have the variable version only I wasn't sure whether to keep it in the end, at least to say I tried it.

Since I do about 95% typing and 5% gaming on the computer which I'll be using it, it sounds pretty inviting.

If you have perfect touch typing abilities then sure, why not?

[cheebs]

The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one.  The feel is not consistent over time.  At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages.  I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use.  The switches are inherently unmaintainable.  The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar.  Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one.  Yes you can swap sliders.  **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.  They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development.  They really have no impetus to improve, either.  Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan.  EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny.  They're simply not all that interested.  If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on.  There are plenty more logical choices at this time.

[TopreFan333]

The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one.  The feel is not consistent over time.  At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages.  I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable.

I've never seen this complaint from anyone else here. I've logged a fair amount of time on my two Topre boards and they feel the same as ever.

The keycaps are obviously an issue

How so? The HHKB and Realforce come with great keycaps stock. The spacebar is hardly the terrible problem that you make it out to be either.

**** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.

How many hundreds upon hundreds of dollars do some people spend on every f*ing new set of keycaps they "need" or every custom switch combo they have to try. Paying $200 for a quality mechanical keyboard is hardly "insane". Please.

[cheebs]

The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one.  The feel is not consistent over time.  At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages.  I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable.

I've never seen this complaint from anyone else here. I've logged a fair amount of time on my two Topre boards and they feel the same as ever.

I've seen the issue mentioned before, and it's present on the HHKB as well.  It's good you haven't come across it, but I'm not sure what your usage is like.

The keycaps are obviously an issue

How so? The HHKB and Realforce come with great keycaps stock. The spacebar is hardly the terrible problem that you make it out to be either.

The material is great, but the legends are hardly visible on the black version (yes, I know it's due to the sublimation process' limitations), and the only keycap sets with a Topre stem are made by Topre themselves.  Even the replacements are difficult to find, which somewhat defeats the purpose of buying a keyboard with replaceable keycaps in the first place.  Of course the spacebar is an issue.  Does it melt when you press it?  No, but given the cost and considering the fact that all other competitors' offerings do not have a terribly mismatched spacebar of subpar material, I'd consider it a defect.

**** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.

How many hundreds upon hundreds of dollars do some people spend on every f*ing new set of keycaps they "need" or every custom switch combo they have to try. Paying $200 for a quality mechanical keyboard is hardly "insane". Please.

Who cares?  That's beside the point.  Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it.  If the Realforce was priced more competitively, it'd be worth holding on to a few of them.  They're not the most modular / maintainable boards out there, but at least they'd be cheap!

[daerid]

Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it.

This is pure opinion, like any other preference.

[Air tree]

I would take a guess that most people on this forum can touch type, so what exactly would be the problem with the legends? My black HHKB; even in low light levels is still visible enough to see it.

In my mind, both the realforce and HHKB are fine at their price points, the realforce is very good quality board with a good set of stock caps.

And guess what? If you don't fancy the black on black legends, there is always a white version for you...

[cheebs]

Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it.

This is pure opinion, like any other preference.

Well, simplify it a bit.  What if the Realforce had MX switches?  I think it would be difficult to argue it's worth the minimum 25% markup.  I think Topre switches induce so much fanaticism it really tilts the scales for a lot of people.  Anything can be worth any price for the right person, but certain aspects of that thing can be compared objectively.  A modern assault rifle is superior to a musket, for example.

[daerid]

Well, simplify it a bit.  What if the Realforce had MX switches?  I think it would be difficult to argue it's worth the minimum 25% markup.  I think Topre switches induce so much fanaticism it really tilts the scales for a lot of people.  Anything can be worth any price for the right person, but certain aspects of that thing can be compared objectively.  A modern assault rifle is superior to a musket, for example.

If the RF had MX switches, it wouldn't be a RealForce. It wouldn't be a Topre, it would just be another MX mech board. The very fact that it doesn't have MX switches, and Topre instead, is enough to justify the price markup for some people. For others (like yourself I'm assuming), it's not.

[behappy]

It's worth it.

The worst that could happen is you sell a lightly-used Realforce (which is easy to do) and lose a small amount of money, at the cost of knowing you don't like Topre. Again that is worst case scenario, most people including myself seem to love Topre.

Not much to lose, much to gain is how I look at it.

Good luck! 

[KeypressGraphics]

Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it.

This is pure opinion, like any other preference.

Well, simplify it a bit.  What if the Realforce had MX switches?  I think it would be difficult to argue it's worth the minimum 25% markup.  I think Topre switches induce so much fanaticism it really tilts the scales for a lot of people.  Anything can be worth any price for the right person, but certain aspects of that thing can be compared objectively.  A modern assault rifle is superior to a musket, for example.

I tend to agree with you that the hype surrounding Topre switches doesn't necessarily justify the reality, and that boards like my HHKB are hideously expensive, also that Topre doesn't seem to be terribly keen on innovating & growing its' market share which strikes me as a terrible shame.

After saying that I'm yet to try a switch more pleasant to type on. All the Cherry MX switches feel vastly inferior (to my fingers at least), buckling springs require too much actuation force for my taste, but I'm yet to try an Alps boards.
So I don't regret coughing up a significant amount for my HHKB as it gives me a pleasurable typing experience every day and has a brilliant key layout. Perhaps the board itself doesn't quite match the praise of some Topre fanatics but that sort of thing is common to a lot of luxury products, which is how I choose to categorize Topre keyboards.

[rf87]

If you type a fair amount during a day, then the answer to your question--concerning the board being worth the price--is a resounding yes.

As others have pointed out, flipping the spacebar helps reduce the noise from it. When typing slowly--which I cannot do throughout the day--I can get-by without making almost any noise from the spacebar. I have not found the spacebar to have any particular rattle. But then again my board is quite new, so that may be the reason.

The enter key is not especially loud and I find it to be one of the most pleasant keys to press on the entire board, both in terms of tactility and sound. If you are too concerned about the noise, then you may want to consider purchasing a silenced Realforce.

By the way, do you want to buy it for gaming or typing?

[rf87]

Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...

I do like my variable and the non-uniformity of keys is not really an issue for me. If anything, I find it to be more natural. So if you are going to use it 95% of the time for typing, then I highly recommend it.

[rowdy]

I like my HHKB - it's one of the few keyboards that I rotate in on a very regular basis.

I nearly didn't buy it, but I'm glad I did

[mikes41720]

I'm in the same camp as you, buddy. Never tried a Topre board before, but I took a leap of faith and ordered a RF87U 55g from Massdrop.

[strict]

Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber.

I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.

The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one.  The feel is not consistent over time.  At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages.  I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use.  The switches are inherently unmaintainable.  The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar.  Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one.  Yes you can swap sliders.  **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.  They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development.  They really have no impetus to improve, either.  Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan.  EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny.  They're simply not all that interested.  If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on.  There are plenty more logical choices at this time.

I disagree with so much of this

- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?

[daerid]

Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber.

I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.

The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one.  The feel is not consistent over time.  At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages.  I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use.  The switches are inherently unmaintainable.  The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar.  Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one.  Yes you can swap sliders.  **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.  They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development.  They really have no impetus to improve, either.  Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan.  EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny.  They're simply not all that interested.  If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on.  There are plenty more logical choices at this time.

I disagree with so much of this

- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?

This is why I hate Topre/MX discussions on this board, they (almost) always turn into people throwing their personal preferences in each other's teeth and getting progressively more and more argumentative. Don't try to refute personal preference/opinion with even more of the same, it never works.

[SpAmRaY]

Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...

I've been using full size variable topre for months now. I really like it.

Can't say it's better or worse than all 45g or 55g but I'm still using it over those.

Thanks. I was interested in getting the 104U on EK for the sole purpose of using the caps on the 87U and numpad, but since they have the variable version only I wasn't sure whether to keep it in the end, at least to say I tried it.

Since I do about 95% typing and 5% gaming on the computer which I'll be using it, it sounds pretty inviting.

And just an FYI not sure what you mean about using the 104U caps on a number pad the 23U number pad has a different layout.

Unless you meant in place of the caps on the 87U that show the secondary number pad functions.


To the OP, so many things keyboard related you just have to experience. I've tried Topre a few times in the past and didn't care for it but tried it again after some time and am still using it daily. So my own preferences have changed over time.

[cheebs]

Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber.

I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.

The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one.  The feel is not consistent over time.  At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages.  I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use.  The switches are inherently unmaintainable.  The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar.  Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one.  Yes you can swap sliders.  **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.  They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development.  They really have no impetus to improve, either.  Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan.  EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny.  They're simply not all that interested.  If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on.  There are plenty more logical choices at this time.

I disagree with so much of this

- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?

This is why I hate Topre/MX discussions on this board, they (almost) always turn into people throwing their personal preferences in each other's teeth and getting progressively more and more argumentative. Don't try to refute personal preference/opinion with even more of the same, it never works.

I'm not refuting personal preference, just stating some facts about the realforce which apparently is heinous around here, lol. You're using your opinion as a tool for debate and belittling any sort of discussion about the features of the keyboard.

[cheebs]

Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber.

I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.

The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one.  The feel is not consistent over time.  At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages.  I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use.  The switches are inherently unmaintainable.  The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar.  Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one.  Yes you can swap sliders.  **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.  They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development.  They really have no impetus to improve, either.  Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan.  EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny.  They're simply not all that interested.  If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on.  There are plenty more logical choices at this time.

I disagree with so much of this

- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?

I don't think you fully read the post.  The mention of Japan sales was relevant to the fact that they're not competing on a global scale, and therefore have no impetus to improve their offerings to contend with other manufacturers.  It does appear they are showing some promise though, if anything from CES 2015 ends up becoming.

Your other points are just excuses being made for a company because you like its product so much.  Maybe the mismatched space bar and non-MX compatible sliders are not an issue to you?  Doesn't really matter, they're still aspects of the keyboard that are inferior to other keyboards.  You "disagree so much" with this because your opinion is "this keyboard is the best and I will ignore or make trivial any of its technical shortcomings".  All I'm saying, is that the board has its flaws, where it definitely shouldn't (given the price point).

[romevi]

Crap. I didn't realize the numpad uses a different layout than the 104U. Will probably get the TKL version, then. Variable!

[maroder]

Haha, didn't know this topic was so charged with emotions.Thank you for the lively discussion.

I like my MX-Keyboards very much, but I think the Topre could complete the typing experience for me. But I suppose it's all personal preference and depends very much on the typing style and intended usage purpose. Can't wait to try one to see what the fuss is all about

By the way, do you want to buy it for gaming or typing?

I guess my usage would be
20 % Gaming
20 % Typing, Coding
60 % Browsing, mailing, chatting and other casual stuff

[cheebs]

Hey guys, just want to summarize my whole point here.  Everyone that loves Topre switches *deserves* a better keyboard than the Realforce, for that price.  Look at what Ducky/Vortex are offering.  If the Ducky Shine series had Topre switches, it'd be game, set, match.  These "premium" switches are being thrown into an afterthought of a keyboard.  Even so, it's hard to say the switches justify their premium, solely in terms of longevity and portability (not feel).

[daerid]

I disagree with so much of this

- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?

I'm not refuting personal preference, just stating some facts opinions about the realforce which apparently is heinous around here, lol. You're using your opinion as a tool for debate and belittling any sort of discussion about the features of the keyboard.

Took the liberty of highlighting some opinions there.

[cheebs]

I disagree with so much of this

- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?

I'm not refuting personal preference, just stating some facts opinions about the realforce which apparently is heinous around here, lol. You're using your opinion as a tool for debate and belittling any sort of discussion about the features of the keyboard.

Took the liberty of highlighting some opinions there.

Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?

[daerid]

Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?

Those things are fact, yes. That's not what I was indicating. I was highlighting things you said that are opinions (some of them about space bar and keycap material).

For the record I absolutely adore RealForce keyboards, and personally find them much more superior to MX-based boards, but I still don't think we should be having arguments based on opinion. If somebody doesn't like Topre/RF/HHKB/Whatever, no need to try to convince them otherwise.

[dante]

My flowchart:

MassDrop release a limited 104 55g Realforce w/ PBT space bar for a reasonable price? --> Yes
|
|
v
No
Buy a Royal Kludge 930-87/104 55g instead.

[SpAmRaY]

My flowchart:

MassDrop release a limited 104 55g Realforce w/ PBT space bar for a reasonable price? --> Yes
|
|
v
No
Buy a Royal Kludge 930-87/104 55g instead.

I can't shake the desire to want to try the royal kludge.