Topre Realforce worth it?

[saturnotaku]

I can't shake the desire to want to try the royal kludge.

It might not feel quite as solid as a Realforce, but I'd take the Kludge over it because of MX keycap compatibility out of the box and available backlighting. If it had per-key lighting control and the ability to create custom profiles, a la the Corsair and Razer RGB keyboards, I would still be using it today.

[pr0ximity]

I use one as my daily driver at work and am very happy with it. It's all personal preference. I enjoy the feeling that 55g Topre domes give on the rebound, plate-mounted switches, and the under-stated design (most people I work with think it's an old, cheap keyboard).

Some non-anecdotal, objective facts:

• Quality construction and components (teardown)
• Thick PBT caps in a Cherry-ish profile
• ABS spacebar
• Plate-mounted Topre switches in a few weights
• Non-removable (re-routable to three points on the rear) cable
• Swappable Ctrl & Caps Lock keys and caps
• TKL and ten-key sizes

+ facts about Topre switches (more or less not feasible to type without bottoming out, keycaps are expensive)

If that interests you, then get one. You have to try it and find out if it's worth it to you (or if any of the above features are worth the price premium).

[Polymer]

Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?

Stating the space bar is made of ABS is a fact.  Whether there is an issue with it being like that is an OPINION.  Outside of the Massdrop PBT space bar offer, you don't have an option. 

Keycap compatibility - This means nothing.  Topre is not compatible with MX which is not compatible with ALPS which is not compatible with Buckling Spring..One thing that IS a fact is that there are more MX Keycap options available out there.  That has nothing to do with the value of the keyboard.  Novatouch sliders are a great idea, does that make it better than RF?  Not at all.  That would be your OPINION. 

Can rubber degrade?  Sure..are we seeing it happen?  No...metal can corrode as well...Sliders that rely on friction can wear...You haven't even brought up the non contact portion of a Topre switch board increases reliability and longevity.  Is the life expectancy of a Topre board less than Cherry MX?  So far it doesn't seem like it...How many people are coming on complaining about a key that no longer works on their Topre board?  To be honest, I'm not sure I even recall someone having an issue...

I get it..you don't like Topre..that's ok..you don't have to like everything.  It is ok for other people to like something you don't.  You don't see the same value in it they do and your mind is trying to come up with reasons why those people are illogically not coming to the same conclusion of your obviously superior mind. 

So us stupid people that like Topre will just have to live in our ignorance.  I actually Cherry, Topre and Alps...so I guess I am somewhat redeemable. 

[Air tree]

It's worthy to bring up, that there are quite old topre boards, and there are still people using them today and reporting the same feeling as their newer topre boards.

[cheebs]

Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?

Stating the space bar is made of ABS is a fact.  Whether there is an issue with it being like that is an OPINION.  Outside of the Massdrop PBT space bar offer, you don't have an option. 

Keycap compatibility - This means nothing.  Topre is not compatible with MX which is not compatible with ALPS which is not compatible with Buckling Spring..One thing that IS a fact is that there are more MX Keycap options available out there.  That has nothing to do with the value of the keyboard.  Novatouch sliders are a great idea, does that make it better than RF?  Not at all.  That would be your OPINION. 

Can rubber degrade?  Sure..are we seeing it happen?  No...metal can corrode as well...Sliders that rely on friction can wear...You haven't even brought up the non contact portion of a Topre switch board increases reliability and longevity.  Is the life expectancy of a Topre board less than Cherry MX?  So far it doesn't seem like it...How many people are coming on complaining about a key that no longer works on their Topre board?  To be honest, I'm not sure I even recall someone having an issue...

I get it..you don't like Topre..that's ok..you don't have to like everything.  It is ok for other people to like something you don't.  You don't see the same value in it they do and your mind is trying to come up with reasons why those people are illogically not coming to the same conclusion of your obviously superior mind. 

So us stupid people that like Topre will just have to live in our ignorance.  I actually Cherry, Topre and Alps...so I guess I am somewhat redeemable. 

It really is interesting how many people are turning this into something opinionative / insulting.  I am not insulting anyone's preferences at all.  I really think the point I'm trying to make here is being missed.

Alright, the spacebar.  So that's personal preference?  Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue?  Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior.  The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set.  That's just a fact, no opinions here.

Keycap compatibility.  Does it matter?  To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way.  The fact is it's a measurable attribute.  This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures.  Maybe you prefer less compatibility?  Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card.  This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets.  That's the meat of it.  You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.

Cup rubber.  Sure, every switch takes some wear.  I'm not even claiming they've had failures.  I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better.  I'm just saying, they're not perfect.

Now you can ignore all of those things, of course.  You might buy the keyboard because you like the way the indicator LEDs look.  That's totally fine, but it doesn't change the attributes of the keyboard.

It's just, when someone asks the question: "Is a Topre Realforce worth it?"  I really wish I could say yes, but I have to say "Is it worth it to you?  Hell, I have no idea, you tell me.  Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately".  I can't really offer anything beyond that.  Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there.  We need more Topre options.  We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade.  I'd love to see some custom Topres, but if I had to guess, their MOQ is probably insane and could only be handled by a large company that sells in brick-and-mortar locations.

[Polymer]

Alright, the spacebar.  So that's personal preference?  Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue?  Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior.  The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set.  That's just a fact, no opinions here.

Absolutely 100% NOT a fact.  You feel PBT is superior, that is not a fact.  *I* think PBT is superior, that still doesn't make it a fact.  Would I love to see the ABS Spacebar PBT?  Of course.  It being superior is still NOT a fact.  The only fact is the space bar is made of ABS.  Some additional arguments about the keycaps all of which are not facts...What is GMK made out of?  ABS.  Comparing stock keycaps from a RF vs. any other keyboard out there..are there any better?  I don't think so..not when you consider the overall quality.  Not just of the material but the printing.  But that is my opinion, not a fact. 

Keycap compatibility.  Does it matter?  To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way.  The fact is it's a measurable attribute.  This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures.  Maybe you prefer less compatibility?  Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card.  This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets.  That's the meat of it.  You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.

It is a different type of switch.  By your assessment, every keyboard switch should be compatible with MX.  If you want to say MX has more sets available, that is a fact..but everyone buying Topre knows it isn't MX.  That isn't for them to change their slider to be like MX.  That is what you want.  That isn't a market factor at all. 

Cup rubber.  Sure, every switch takes some wear.  I'm not even claiming they've had failures.  I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better.  The gold conical spring is a much less probable point of failure, I think.  I'm just saying, they're not perfect.

Plenty of people have not seen them change at all..some people have.  I have a 7 year old Topre, it feels perfectly fine.  Did you know sliders on MX wear because of friction?  So you feel they're not perfect (opinion), but what switch is? (which is your opinion).  People can't even agree on which MX switch is perfect...

Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately".  I can't really offer anything beyond that.  Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.

Again, your opinion.  You're trying to make that out as a fact. You really do believe that is fact..and it isn't.

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there.  We need more Topre options.  We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade. 

The price is what the price is.  Would I like to see more options? Sure...there have been some recently....You want a lower end Topre, Type Heaven is for you...You want MX Compatibility?  Some people love the Novatouch and some don't.  You want a 60% or close to?  HHKB or 660c.  Is the selection as broad as MX?  Of course not..is that the company shafting us?   Not at all.  But to address the "value" question..how much is a high quality set of PBT Dye Subs?  80-100?  So take that off of the cost of a RF (lets just say 230).  130-150 for a quality keyboard with Topre switches that are generally more reliable than MX (I think they're actually far more reliable but lets just say).  Is that really a crazy price?  Look at how much people are paying for keyboards that come with junk stock keycaps that they can barely sell for 10 dollars and then they have to go, buy another set and replace them.  But all that is opinion. 

[steve.v]

Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?

Stating the space bar is made of ABS is a fact.  Whether there is an issue with it being like that is an OPINION.  Outside of the Massdrop PBT space bar offer, you don't have an option. 

Keycap compatibility - This means nothing.  Topre is not compatible with MX which is not compatible with ALPS which is not compatible with Buckling Spring..One thing that IS a fact is that there are more MX Keycap options available out there.  That has nothing to do with the value of the keyboard.  Novatouch sliders are a great idea, does that make it better than RF?  Not at all.  That would be your OPINION. 

Can rubber degrade?  Sure..are we seeing it happen?  No...metal can corrode as well...Sliders that rely on friction can wear...You haven't even brought up the non contact portion of a Topre switch board increases reliability and longevity.  Is the life expectancy of a Topre board less than Cherry MX?  So far it doesn't seem like it...How many people are coming on complaining about a key that no longer works on their Topre board?  To be honest, I'm not sure I even recall someone having an issue...

I get it..you don't like Topre..that's ok..you don't have to like everything.  It is ok for other people to like something you don't.  You don't see the same value in it they do and your mind is trying to come up with reasons why those people are illogically not coming to the same conclusion of your obviously superior mind. 

So us stupid people that like Topre will just have to live in our ignorance.  I actually Cherry, Topre and Alps...so I guess I am somewhat redeemable. 

It really is interesting how many people are turning this into something opinionative / insulting.  I am not insulting anyone's preferences at all.  I really think the point I'm trying to make here is being missed.

Alright, the spacebar.  So that's personal preference?  Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue?  Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior.  The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set.  That's just a fact, no opinions here.

Keycap compatibility.  Does it matter?  To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way.  The fact is it's a measurable attribute.  This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures.  Maybe you prefer less compatibility?  Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card.  This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets.  That's the meat of it.  You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.

Cup rubber.  Sure, every switch takes some wear.  I'm not even claiming they've had failures.  I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better.  I'm just saying, they're not perfect.

Now you can ignore all of those things, of course.  You might buy the keyboard because you like the way the indicator LEDs look.  That's totally fine, but it doesn't change the attributes of the keyboard.

It's just, when someone asks the question: "Is a Topre Realforce worth it?"  I really wish I could say yes, but I have to say "Is it worth it to you?  Hell, I have no idea, you tell me.  Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately".  I can't really offer anything beyond that.  Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there.  We need more Topre options.  We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade.  I'd love to see some custom Topres, but if I had to guess, their MOQ is probably insane and could only be handled by a large company that sells in brick-and-mortar locations.

Lol tldr

I'll assume its a rant. Why are you trying to manage other people's money and preferences lol?

[cheebs]

Alright, the spacebar.  So that's personal preference?  Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue?  Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior.  The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set.  That's just a fact, no opinions here.

Absolutely 100% NOT a fact.  You feel PBT is superior, that is not a fact.  *I* think PBT is superior, that still doesn't make it a fact.  Would I love to see the ABS Spacebar PBT?  Of course.  It being superior is still NOT a fact.  The only fact is the space bar is made of ABS.  Some additional arguments about the keycaps all of which are not facts...What is GMK made out of?  ABS.  Comparing stock keycaps from a RF vs. any other keyboard out there..are there any better?  I don't think so..not when you consider the overall quality.  Not just of the material but the printing.  But that is my opinion, not a fact. 

Keycap compatibility.  Does it matter?  To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way.  The fact is it's a measurable attribute.  This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures.  Maybe you prefer less compatibility?  Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card.  This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets.  That's the meat of it.  You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.

It is a different type of switch.  By your assessment, every keyboard switch should be compatible with MX.  If you want to say MX has more sets available, that is a fact..but everyone buying Topre knows it isn't MX.  That isn't for them to change their slider to be like MX.  That is what you want.  That isn't a market factor at all. 

Cup rubber.  Sure, every switch takes some wear.  I'm not even claiming they've had failures.  I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better.  The gold conical spring is a much less probable point of failure, I think.  I'm just saying, they're not perfect.

Plenty of people have not seen them change at all..some people have.  I have a 7 year old Topre, it feels perfectly fine.  Did you know sliders on MX wear because of friction?  So you feel they're not perfect (opinion), but what switch is? (which is your opinion).  People can't even agree on which MX switch is perfect...

Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately".  I can't really offer anything beyond that.  Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.

Again, your opinion.  You're trying to make that out as a fact. You really do believe that is fact..and it isn't.

I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there.  We need more Topre options.  We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade. 

The price is what the price is.  Would I like to see more options? Sure...there have been some recently....You want a lower end Topre, Type Heaven is for you...You want MX Compatibility?  Some people love the Novatouch and some don't.  You want a 60% or close to?  HHKB or 660c.  Is the selection as broad as MX?  Of course not..is that the company shafting us?   Not at all.  But to address the "value" question..how much is a high quality set of PBT Dye Subs?  80-100?  So take that off of the cost of a RF (lets just say 230).  130-150 for a quality keyboard with Topre switches that are generally more reliable than MX (I think they're actually far more reliable but lets just say).  Is that really a crazy price?  Look at how much people are paying for keyboards that come with junk stock keycaps that they can barely sell for 10 dollars and then they have to go, buy another set and replace them.  But all that is opinion. 

For the spacebar, this is not a great design choice.  The ABS RF spacebar is thin and doesn't have a UV coating, it's very soft and prone to wear, especially near the edge.

As far as the price goes, you're considering costs of acquiring all of those items separately, not producing them as part of a keyboard.  So that's not accurate.

Ah well..  I've said all I can say, I guess.  Maybe this will also serve as an interest check for custom Topre boards.  Keep all those ideas in your heads, guys!  Everyone here is happy with their Realforces and doesn't want anything new, it seems, lol.

[madhias]

[...]and the under-stated design (most people I work with think it's an old, cheap keyboard).
[...]Thick PBT caps in a Cherry-ish profile
[...]ABS spacebar

That's absolutely true, the understatement is a nice feature I really like. It is like a wolf in sheep's clothing. When I use it at work noone recognizes it as a special keyboard. My wife said it is the ugliest keyboard I have.

The caps are not thick PBT by the way, or at least mine are not thick PBT. But for stock caps they are great. No need to change, only if you like to have another color.

Regarding the space bar there is or was a group buy from matt3o with PBT spacebars for Topre, and I do think they are available more often in future from Massdrop. As I saw the colors are matching nicely!

[rsadek]

I'd love one if I could program it. Has anyone worked on a new controller for it?

[rowdy]

Hi,

I am currently using MX-Clears and MX-Blacks and would like a new "experience". So I am planing on getting a Topre Realforce. As this is quite a bit of money, I would like to know if anyone got a Topre and is willing to share their experience.

Is it really worth the money? How loud is the spacebar and enter key on the Realforce? This is the only thing that currently annoys me on my Cherry switches. My Clears have a loud spacebar, the Blacks have a rattly Enter key - I should swap the switches for these keys

Cheers
Maroder

Topre vs. MX is one of the long time disputative topics around here )

You say you want a new experience - then go for it.  Topre is definitely different to all MX switches.

Then try a buckling spring keyboard (Model M or Model F (that's another topic for debate)) afterwards

[Polymer]

For the spacebar, this is not a great design choice.  The ABS RF spacebar is thin and doesn't have a UV coating, it's very soft and prone to wear, especially near the edge.

As far as the price goes, you're considering costs of acquiring all of those items separately, not producing them as part of a keyboard.  So that's not accurate.

Ah well..  I've said all I can say, I guess.  Maybe this will also serve as an interest check for custom Topre boards.  Keep all those ideas in your heads, guys!  Everyone here is happy with their Realforces and doesn't want anything new, it seems, lol.

For whatever reason, they don't make a PBT spacebar.  Do I dislike that?  Sure I do..I wish it was PBT...Is that going to be a consideration when buying Topre?  No...what other options are available?  All of them come with ABS.  Does it make me think Topre keyboards are poor choices because it comes with an ABS spacebar?  Hell no...

I'm sure producing them separately costs more..but again, what other options do you have and why do you think they feel they need to change anything? 

Producing a custom Topre is not easy...Would I want one?  Sure I would..but is it going to happen?  Doubt it...I think people have talked about it for awhile..it just isn't easy to be able to get the parts to do it...

The closest we're going to get for awhile is replacing the case.

But even if you could...so you're going to produce your own set of keycaps including PBT spacebar?  Assuming there wasn't the MD PBT Spacebar...the Min order was massive...
And it still doesn't change the things you dislike about it..the rubber domes you said would degrade?  And the keycap compatibility?  So you want a slider with MX...like the Novatouch...so why not get a Novatouch?  Or work on a case for a Novatouch?

[Bucake]

i think RF boards are way overpriced,
but whether they are worth the price is simply a matter of how much enjoyment you get out of it.
as for me, yes. my fingers are in love with typing on topre. i don't regret buying.

but yeah.. i think that it's kind of a joke that the boards are not perfect. they should be, for the price.
no pbt spacebar? inconsistent legends? unacceptable.
the lack of possibilities for modding is also something to consider. (can't just go and get a bunch of new domes in the weighting you like most.)
not all boards come as type-s, and you can't just get the sliders somewhere. type-s boards are also way overpriced. (whether they are worth it is, again, personal.)

TLDR; overpriced, but can be worth the money, depending on personal enjoyment.
i don't regret buying my overpriced topre board, and i plan on getting 2 or 3 more. (yep.)

[daerid]

Thanks for saving me the typing, Polymer

[TopreFan333]

For my money, I'm pretty psyched with my Type Heaven and don't consider it a massive step down from my HHKB. I probably wouldn't pony up for a Realforce because as far as I can tell the only real difference is the keycaps (I can live with ABS, thanks) and I guess a DIP switch that I'm also living quite well without.

[GL1TCH3D]

i think RF boards are way overpriced,
but whether they are worth the price is simply a matter of how much enjoyment you get out of it.
as for me, yes. my fingers are in love with typing on topre. i don't regret buying.

but yeah.. i think that it's kind of a joke that the boards are not perfect. they should be, for the price.
no pbt spacebar? inconsistent legends? unacceptable.
the lack of possibilities for modding is also something to consider. (can't just go and get a bunch of new domes in the weighting you like most.)
not all boards come as type-s, and you can't just get the sliders somewhere. type-s boards are also way overpriced. (whether they are worth it is, again, personal.)

TLDR; overpriced, but can be worth the money, depending on personal enjoyment.
i don't regret buying my overpriced topre board, and i plan on getting 2 or 3 more. (yep.)

I mean, the cherry springs that people use for mods are all custom made. Who's to say that someone dedicated enough wouldn't be able to reproduce topre parts in group buys?

My hipro topre uses a PBT spacebar and damn if it isn't the best keyboard I've ever typed on.

I'd only consider other things for a change of pace.

Also consider that perfect for a price doesn't exist.

Topre is in the middle of the pack for pricing between korean customs and just stock MX boards. I don't think they have a responsibility to be perfect for the price. They're not "super deluxe high end".

In headphones nobody expects the $500 Alpha dogs to be absolutely perfect. Sure, it sucks that there are certain flaws but honestly I don't see it that they should have made it "perfect" in the context of GH.

[rabidwombat]

Any Topre keyboard (Realforce or HHKB) is probably worth it if you clearly prefer Topre switches, as it brings you into endgame territory, and you will probably not spend much after that initial outlay..

Until you get restless once again, and go back to the realm of Cherry MX, this time entering a bottomless pit with all the individual parts, key sets, customs, and you will keep wondering what if you had just stopped at Topre, how much money and space you could have saved if the journey had simply ended there. This pretty much summarizes my keyboard journey.

[GL1TCH3D]

Any Topre keyboard (Realforce or HHKB) is probably worth it if you clearly prefer Topre switches, as it brings you into endgame territory, and you will probably not spend much after that initial outlay..

Until you get restless once again, and go back to the realm of Cherry MX, this time entering a bottomless pit with all the individual parts, key sets, customs, and you will keep wondering what if you had just stopped at Topre, how much money and space you could have saved if the journey had simply ended there. This pretty much summarizes my keyboard journey.

"How much money you would have saved"

*checks total cost for my HiPro tkl*

Nope, not seeing it xD

[daerid]

Any Topre keyboard (Realforce or HHKB) is probably worth it if you clearly prefer Topre switches, as it brings you into endgame territory, and you will probably not spend much after that initial outlay..

Until you get restless once again, and go back to the realm of Cherry MX, this time entering a bottomless pit with all the individual parts, key sets, customs, and you will keep wondering what if you had just stopped at Topre, how much money and space you could have saved if the journey had simply ended there. This pretty much summarizes my keyboard journey.

Brilliant. On a per keyboard basis, my Cherry MX endeavors have been more expensive than any single RF board I've purchased.

[GenKaan]

I really loved my 88ub 45g. One of the nicer keyboards Ive had, traded it for a HHKB but would have kept it if I didnt prefer my Shine 3 with Mx Reds to it as TKL keyboard. Mostly due to LED's and Mx switch making it easier to get set of caps. High quality caps on Realforce keyboards tho!

[demik]

55g RF is by far the best out of the box keyboards.

The switch is perfect. The size is great. The keycaps are nice. There is nothing you need to do to it (like in cherry's case) to have a great typing experience.

[Hypersphere]

55g RF is by far the best out of the box keyboards.

The switch is perfect. The size is great. The keycaps are nice. There is nothing you need to do to it (like in cherry's case) to have a great typing experience.

I tend to agree. After going through a great number of other keyboards, my all-time favorites include the RF87UB 55g. However, being a keyboard enthusiast (and one who likes legible legends on the alphanumeric keys), I couldn't resist changing the keycaps. Topre dye-sub PBT keycaps are (IMO) the finest to be found anywhere. Although the total package was expensive, it was well worth it to me.

[Merlijn]

What a coincidence, I have the exact same question as I am also looking at the Realforce 87U . Though, I had one question regarding keycaps:

I understand finding other keycaps for the RF isn't as easy as for MX keycaps, but which ones should I be on the lookout for when I do decide to change the ones on the RF? This is in fact the only reason that is currently withholding me to buy the RF since I won't be able to use all these good-looking keysets you guys are posting  .

PS: sorry for hijacking the thread, I hope nobody minds...

[excelsior]

I think topre does have a far superior design.
 Someone just said few post back that if ducky keyboard had topre switch it will be game set and match but that's the opposite to me.
The nova touch tkl is a topre board but i will never buy that it s just super ugly and generic. When i watch a topre board it remind me of dieter rams design. So it's not just a question of switch there it s a question of design to and where other keyboard pretty much all look like the same topre have a unique case

[eternalmetal]

So basically the main reasons for not buying this keyboard all come down to it's aesthetics.  I recently got a RF87UB 55g, and before I purchased it I did plenty of research on the other topre boards.  I was extremely close to buying an HHKB because of how nice it looks.  I dont think ive seen it with a single keycap set (even stock) that didnt make my jaw drop.  But im not buying a keyboard for looks;  Im buying a keyboard because of the typing experience.  And as far as the typing experience, I find that this board has completely lived up to my expectations.  Im glad that I didnt go with a 45g topre model since the 55g is just perfect to me.  Was the premium price of this board worth it?  Absolutely.  Sometimes you have to pay a little extra to get premium products, and imo this keyboard is definitely one of those things.  Maybe, ironically enough, keyboard collectors with many different keyboards will have a harder time justifying the price tag, since they could probably buy two different keyboards for the price of this one. 

The lack of compatibility with most custom keycap sets doesnt bother me, since the stock keys on the RF have top quality feels.  Neither does the ABS spacebar.  It feels fine, and personally I could care less if it develops a little shine.  Is it actually a con?  Maybe.

I guess aesthetics are far more important to some people than others, and imo if you significantly care about looks, you probably wont find the RF to be worth its high price tag.

[Merlijn]

I am close to buying a 87U from keyboardco but the RF models they have, are described as "Black on Beige".

Is this really beige or is it actually white like the pictures on EK?

[demik]

It's a slight off white. I'd wanna say more towards the grey side than beige.

[macguy80]

My personal experience:

I first bought the 45g version, because I had been scared by EK's note about the 55g being very heavy and not recommended for those with arthritis (although it is not a condition that I suffer from).

My accuracy suffered terribly. Lots of typos, though I loved the Topre sound.

I later bought the 55g, and the accuracy problems disappeared. Incidentally, I don't find 55g to be terribly heavy. This is not to say the 45g Topre board is bad. It is probably just that I personally do better with heavier switches.

I do find that I don't care for the upstroke sound on my 55g board. I didn't think to compare my 45g board while I still had it. But that is just a matter of personal preference. If I could have bought a silenced Topre 55g board, that's what I would have done. To my knowledge, a factory board with those specs does not exist, however, and I am not physically equipped to do the mod.

Even so, it is a wonderful board to type on.

[opensecret]

Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...

I had the silenced variable weight 87U for a spell. There wasn't anything wrong with it, but I happen to prefer the uniformity and feel of the HHKB Type-S.

I have two Realforce boards, both variable force, and I love typing on them.  I'm typing on a 87USW right now, and, for me, it's always a pleasure to use -- fast, comfortable and quiet. 

I bought both of the Realforce boards used -- price was good, and both have worked like a charm. 

[Polymer]

I bought both of the Realforce boards used -- price was good, and both have worked like a charm.

It is one of the under appreciated aspects of Topre...they're very reliable.  More so than Cherry.  Will the rubber eventually run down?  I think so....but not anytime soon.  Outside of that, there is very little that can go wrong on the board.

[Magna224]

I had a 55g uniform full size and I would say its definitely worth it. I paid ~$160 used and sold it for $170. I'll buy a 55g 87 key next time I see one in good shape for $150-165.

[romevi]

Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.

After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.

I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.

[Polymer]

Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.

After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.

I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.

Unless you're using numbers a lot (heavy spreadsheet work), you'll get used to not having a numberpad and appreciate the better mouse position..

You are going to bottom out on Topre...There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottoming out but really, if 55g is too light for you, I'd imagine you'd be slamming bottom on any keyboard out there.

If you're resting your fingers on 55g Topre and accidentally pressing keys, you are REALLY resting hard...When I first got a variable Topre, the light (30g) keys were too light and I'd get the same type of thing..but the 30g keys really ARE light and have almost no tactility to them but to do that on 55g, I dunno...that's just weird to be honest. 

I'd probably have to agree with you about getting used to Topre..in your case.  You probably need very very heavy switches and you're not going to find that with Topre..

[Air tree]

With topre, it's quite hard not to bottom out, honestly I think everyones bottoms out on topre.


And 55g being too light? to the point where you can't rest your fingers on the keys? You must slam down on your board, I would say, too hard.


I can get like cherry mx reds, but topre 55g feels Much different weighting than 45 reds for example.

I would compare the switch weighting more akin to 65g-70g cherry switches or alps switches.

[romevi]

With topre, it's quite hard not to bottom out, honestly I think everyones bottoms out on topre.


And 55g being too light? to the point where you can't rest your fingers on the keys? You must slam down on your board, I would say, too hard.


I can get like cherry mx reds, but topre 55g feels like a different weighting than 45 reds for example.

I would compare the switch weighting more akin to 65g-70g cherry switches or alps switches.

Rethinking, I wonder if that accidental press was a glitch. Like, if I received a defect or something. I tried it right after I did that accidental press, and I could've sworn I didn't press it because I would've felt it.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if I did get a defect, seeing as the case was slightly warped.

Gonna give it a week and reevaluate my conclusions.

That said, I still do think it's a bit light, but that's probably something I may be able to get used to.

[strict]

Definitely use it for a while, I was underwhelmed by mine at first too. It's hard to get a good idea of what to expect from a Topre switch until you've actually tried it. I think this causes a lot of people, myself included, to end up with skewed expectations. 

[Polymer]

Rethinking, I wonder if that accidental press was a glitch. Like, if I received a defect or something. I tried it right after I did that accidental press, and I could've sworn I didn't press it because I would've felt it.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if I did get a defect, seeing as the case was slightly warped.

Nope...that wouldn't do it..

The case has some give which is why you thought it was "warped".  The way the case can turn might lead you to believe there is something wrong with it but there isn't..if you ever open it up and look and understand how Topre works, you'll see that isn't it..

What you did with the D key, I've done on 30g keys (a lot of people have).  But either way, the way you're describing it sounds like you really slam hard and rest your fingers on it hard. 

55g Topre is not like MX...it is all in the startup vs. lower weight to startup and gravity just doing it's thing..

[rabidwombat]

The day you first try topre, the feeling will be like.. so is this it? Just continue rotating between your Cherry and Topre boards, and you will slowly learn to appreciate it. For me, it took a couple of weeks, but now, I'm always looking forward to go to work as that's where my HHKB sits. I rotate between my Cherry linears at home and Topre in the office just to mix things up a bit.

[cheebs]

Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.

After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.

I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.

Unless you're using numbers a lot (heavy spreadsheet work), you'll get used to not having a numberpad and appreciate the better mouse position..

You are going to bottom out on Topre...There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottoming out but really, if 55g is too light for you, I'd imagine you'd be slamming bottom on any keyboard out there.

If you're resting your fingers on 55g Topre and accidentally pressing keys, you are REALLY resting hard...When I first got a variable Topre, the light (30g) keys were too light and I'd get the same type of thing..but the 30g keys really ARE light and have almost no tactility to them but to do that on 55g, I dunno...that's just weird to be honest. 

I'd probably have to agree with you about getting used to Topre..in your case.  You probably need very very heavy switches and you're not going to find that with Topre..

Uhh..  How about if you don't use the mouse a ton, and instead prefer some extra programmable keys?  TKL is not that much smaller, honestly, and unless you're gaming a lot it's not much more ergonomic.  Maybe if you have some sort of shoulder injury or other disability, it would be a more significant improvement but posture can do a hell of a lot more for your comfort than scooting your mouse over a couple of inches..

[Elrick]

The day you first try topre, the feeling will be like.. so is this it? Just continue rotating between your Cherry and Topre boards, and you will slowly learn to appreciate it. For me, it took a couple of weeks, but now, I'm always looking forward to go to work as that's where my HHKB sits. I rotate between my Cherry linears at home and Topre in the office just to mix things up a bit.

Same here, enjoy using Cherry's and Thorpies but they are exclusively for home use ONLY.

At work there is the common Dell or IBM membrane keyboards covered in grease and oil 24/7, hence bringing an expensive keyboard to my work would be insane plus it's not worth the hassle.

[Polymer]

Uhh..  How about if you don't use the mouse a ton, and instead prefer some extra programmable keys?  TKL is not that much smaller, honestly, and unless you're gaming a lot it's not much more ergonomic.  Maybe if you have some sort of shoulder injury or other disability, it would be a more significant improvement but posture can do a hell of a lot more for your comfort than scooting your mouse over a couple of inches..

If you have real needs for a full keyboard then go for it..There is nothing stopping you.  But for most users, they don't need it, they're just used to it....Once you're used to not using a numberpad for basic stuff (which isn't any faster) you'll realize you didn't need it.  Now if you do have specific reasons why you need it, then you need it. 

And yes, it is a lot more ergonomic...If you have your keyboard centered (which you should) then that extra space, for a lot of people, is a big difference....It is only a few inches but it makes a significant difference..for regular use or for gaming.  If it doesn't for you then that's fine...but I think for many users, the first thing they notice is how much better it feels to have their mouse closer...

What does posture have to do with it?  I'm not comparing it to posture...

[romevi]

Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.

After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.

I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.

Unless you're using numbers a lot (heavy spreadsheet work), you'll get used to not having a numberpad and appreciate the better mouse position..

You are going to bottom out on Topre...There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottoming out but really, if 55g is too light for you, I'd imagine you'd be slamming bottom on any keyboard out there.

If you're resting your fingers on 55g Topre and accidentally pressing keys, you are REALLY resting hard...When I first got a variable Topre, the light (30g) keys were too light and I'd get the same type of thing..but the 30g keys really ARE light and have almost no tactility to them but to do that on 55g, I dunno...that's just weird to be honest. 

I'd probably have to agree with you about getting used to Topre..in your case.  You probably need very very heavy switches and you're not going to find that with Topre..

Uhh..  How about if you don't use the mouse a ton, and instead prefer some extra programmable keys?  TKL is not that much smaller, honestly, and unless you're gaming a lot it's not much more ergonomic.  Maybe if you have some sort of shoulder injury or other disability, it would be a more significant improvement but posture can do a hell of a lot more for your comfort than scooting your mouse over a couple of inches..

Sorry, but I don't understand your statement. I can't tell if you were replying to me.

[Sed8op8]

Ill just say this and it is just my opinion. 55g Topre is amazing ! I liked it so much I have bought 3 of them the last one being an almost $400 10th AE edition. Wether its worth the price is going to depend solely on the person. 62g-67g Ergo Clears lubed properly are my favorite MX switch and its not really fair to compare the 2 because I love korean custom boards and that really tilts the decision of the ergos but 55g Topre is by far my favorite stock switch !!!!

The decision at the end of the day is going to be yours but as you can see by MOST people here's responses albeit expensive the Realforce boards are great quality and worth the premium IMHO !

[Belfong]

I am adding my voice to the Topre camp. I love the 55g Realforce at home and the HHKB at work. They are one of a kind. The HHKB, while is a lighter switch, is also one of a kind because of its mesmerizing thock. I believe everyone should try Topre at one point or the other. You will not regret it. Also, I sometimes rotate to an IBM SSK or a Matias Alps. Those are able to stand their ground too. And when I do get to the MX Blues or MX Clears, I feel that they are just too light - good for fun typing but definitely seeing myself going back to Topre most of the time.

[Bomble]

Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.

I thought I'd just give my thoughts on what may have happened. Maybe if your hands were away from your keyboard, and as you put your fingers back on the home row you accidentally pressed the key just beyond the actuation point, and didn't fully release. I tried this and if you weren't paying attention, it wouldn't be hard to go without noticing - particularly if you were used to heavier switches that actuate differently.

[cheebs]

What does posture have to do with it?  I'm not comparing it to posture...

Posture is ergonomics.  This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:

Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs?  I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."

[cheebs]

Sorry, but I don't understand your statement. I can't tell if you were replying to me.

Ah, sorry, I was replying to the other guy

[Polymer]

What does posture have to do with it?  I'm not comparing it to posture...

Posture is ergonomics.  This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:

Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs?  I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."

And yet, your comment is still irrelevant.  If you have good/bad posture that doesn't change the relevance of the mouse position. 
I agree with you 100% that posture is important. It just isn't important to the discussion about mouse position with TKL vs. Full Size. 

[cheebs]

What does posture have to do with it?  I'm not comparing it to posture...

Posture is ergonomics.  This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:

Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs?  I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."

And yet, your comment is still irrelevant.  If you have good/bad posture that doesn't change the relevance of the mouse position. 
I agree with you 100% that posture is important. It just isn't important to the discussion about mouse position with TKL vs. Full Size.

They're both ergonomic factors, one of which is more significant than the other.  Are you lost, or confused?

[Polymer]

What does posture have to do with it?  I'm not comparing it to posture...

Posture is ergonomics.  This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:

Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs?  I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."

And yet, your comment is still irrelevant.  If you have good/bad posture that doesn't change the relevance of the mouse position. 
I agree with you 100% that posture is important. It just isn't important to the discussion about mouse position with TKL vs. Full Size.

They're both ergonomic factors, one of which is more significant than the other.  Are you lost, or confused?

And that has to do with the superiority of the mouse position with TKL how?  That's right..it doesn't. 

The fact that posture is more important ergonomically does not change the fact that your mouse is in a better position.  The mouse being in a better position is still true even with poor posture or with good posture.  It not being as significant as posture for ergonomics doesn't change that.