Author Topic: Gateron Switches  (Read 3166 times)

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Offline TeacherGeek

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Gateron Switches
« on: Fri, 03 May 2019, 21:28:55 »
Why are these so cheap from Novelkeys

Is there something about these that I don't know?

https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/gateron-switches?variant=19441344938077

Online Rob27shred

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 03 May 2019, 21:39:43 »
Nope, that's about the going rate give or take a couple cents depending on where you buy them from for Gateron switches. They're base lineup of blue, green, clear, red, yellow, black, & brown switches have been going for around $0.25 to $0.30 per switch as long as I've been in the MKB game.

Offline Dr.Hades

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 03 May 2019, 21:57:13 »
Why are these so cheap from Novelkeys

Is there something about these that I don't know?

https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/gateron-switches?variant=19441344938077

There really isn't much to them besides being a cheaper and in most peoples opinions better cherry switches. Except for the blues though because those things sound like hell 15 times over a chalkboard

Offline TeacherGeek

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 03 May 2019, 23:38:56 »
Why are they so much cheaper than everything out there?

I mean, it's not a little cheaper, it's heaps cheaper.

Online Rob27shred

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 00:13:30 »
Oh I got you now, my bad. I thought you were asking why Gateron switches were a little cheaper at NK vs other places, LOL! Basically cause Gateron is based in China & has very low production costs. They also sell metric **** tons of switches to chinese mkb OEMs, so between the lower production costs & sheer volume they can offer decent switches that cheap. I wouldn't say they are heaps cheaper than everything else. Kailh's, Outemu's, & Greetech's lineup of basic MX switch types sell for similar pricing. Cherry's switches are a bit more expensive since they are based in Germany, but even their basic lineup comes in at around $0.45 to $.0.50 per switch. The switches you see that are in the $0.70 to $1.00 per switch range are considered to be boutique switches which are produced with higher quality materials & more exacting tolerances to fully explain the pricing discrepancies.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 09:39:17 »


The switches you see that are in the $0.70 to $1.00 per switch range are considered to be boutique switches which are produced with higher quality materials & more exacting tolerances to fully explain the pricing discrepancies.

Mostly hype drives up the prices on those boutique switches.

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Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:10:33 »
Kailh box switches are near that price range as well, and IMO they are better than any other cherry or cherry clone switch. Past nub sizing issues notwithstanding.

Don't equate price with quality/enjoyment, unless you like paying extra for hype and marketing.

Offline HotRoderX

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 13:51:14 »
Partially its boutique pricing of some non cherry switches. Then there is name brand recognition with cherry switches and the fact there made in Germany. Mostly thought the cheaper cherry clones are made in china and in most cases superior to cherry's offerings as far as feel goes. The patent for cherries design expired some time ago. These Chinese manufactures only had to pay for startup cost and not the RD. Thats one reason they have such a price gap. There is also the fact they produce enough switches to make tooling cost negligible. Example is Zeal he has his boutique switches. He might sell 1-2 million a year. Gateron will most likely sell 20 - 30 million switches in a year.

Online Rob27shred

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:29:06 »


The switches you see that are in the $0.70 to $1.00 per switch range are considered to be boutique switches which are produced with higher quality materials & more exacting tolerances to fully explain the pricing discrepancies.

Mostly hype drives up the prices on those boutique switches.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Oh yeah, I'm sure they could be offered cheaper & hype definitely plays a big role in the higher pricing. Just was trying to give a basic explanation of the pricing gap.
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 May 2019, 15:31:06 by Rob27shred »

Offline TeacherGeek

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 04 May 2019, 17:20:47 »
Thanks for all the info. You guys are awesome.

Online Rob27shred

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 05 May 2019, 05:32:09 »
Thanks for all the info. You guys are awesome.
:thumb:

Offline yet1hunter

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 06 May 2019, 00:45:23 »
We could broaden that price disparity by making one switch in Vietnam and the other in Switzerland.
And while labour may be the stock answer, I’m willing to wager environmental regulations (OMG, China VS Germany on that one) and the Universal Postal Union having more to play in a situation where the product is made by robots.

Offline TheNamesTy45

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 11 May 2019, 07:27:18 »
Gateron linears are awesome. I think it was only like a year and a half or two years ago they were all the rage before a billion and a half new switches exploded onto the scene. Been using them for years and have always had great experiences with them.

Only just now actually bothered with Cherry Blacks because you can reliably source the smoother retooled linears. They still aren't as smooth as Gateron, but they wobble less.

Gateron stock switches still remain one of the best deals in mech keyboard switches, imo.

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 11 May 2019, 08:12:14 »
These are so cheap since they are produced in mass numbers and it's even cheaper to make them in the factories as well.

Offline TeacherGeek

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 12 May 2019, 07:26:40 »
Gateron linears are awesome. I think it was only like a year and a half or two years ago they were all the rage before a billion and a half new switches exploded onto the scene. Been using them for years and have always had great experiences with them.

Only just now actually bothered with Cherry Blacks because you can reliably source the smoother retooled linears. They still aren't as smooth as Gateron, but they wobble less.

Gateron stock switches still remain one of the best deals in mech keyboard switches, imo.

How are the browns?

Offline TheNamesTy45

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 12 May 2019, 08:10:07 »
Gateron linears are awesome. I think it was only like a year and a half or two years ago they were all the rage before a billion and a half new switches exploded onto the scene. Been using them for years and have always had great experiences with them.

Only just now actually bothered with Cherry Blacks because you can reliably source the smoother retooled linears. They still aren't as smooth as Gateron, but they wobble less.

Gateron stock switches still remain one of the best deals in mech keyboard switches, imo.

How are the browns?

Haven't used the browns myself because I tend towards higher tactility when using tactile switches.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 12 May 2019, 10:31:38 »
I've tried Gateron Browns on a number of keyboards at meetups, and on my own testing keyboard.

Gateron Browns are relatively smooth. They are smoother than pre-retooled Cherry MX Browns. The MX Browns for several years leading up to 2016 were very scratchy. Gateron Browns became popular in that time frame, for being cheaper and allegedly better than MX Browns.

After Cherry retooled its browns slightly, some observers have been saying that Cherry retooled its Browns to more resemble Gateron's.

I've heard different things about the 'tactile bump' on Gateron Browns. People say that the Gateron's 'bump' is more distinct. But that hasn't been my experience. The ones I tried on my own keyboard almost felt like linears.

Anyway, Gateron Browns do feel good on a TADA68 (especially with metal case), so try that if you get a chance.

Others have pointed out why Gateron switches are so cheap. Basically, Gateron is part of a new global centre of mass-manufacturing MX switches. They benefit from the lower labour costs and economies of scale in China. I'm sure the Gateron plant is deeply integrated with, or at least proximate to, other areas of keyboard manufacturing in China.

Gateron has been really innovating in the last few years. Chinese manufacturers like Kailh and Gateron are trying to assume leadership of MX switch production, or at least raise their own profile, by filling in all sorts of 'gaps' in the Cherry MX lineup.

For example, Cherry produces the MX Clear heavy tactile, but no light version of that same tactile. That where (Gateron) Zealios come in. They make something similar to the 'Ergo Clear' mod that end-users made, but Cherry never deigned to produce.

Kailh has gone crazy, making all sorts of slight variants. There's Kailh Brown [almost an MX Brown clone], BOX Brown [the Brown concept but on a BOX mechanism] Halo Trues [a heavy semi-tactile], Pro Purples [a lighter Halo True], BOX Burnt Orange, which is just a heavy brown, various 'speed' switches, and so on.

But I like what Gateron is doing. Look at their 'Gateron Yellow' switch, for example. Cherry has a super-light linear (MX Red) and a relatively-heavy linear (MX Black). But nothing in-between. MX Red is too light for many people, and some say it should never have existed. And MX Black is too heavy for comfortable use for many. So why no middle ground after decades of switch production?

In comes the Gateron Yellow. It's affordably priced, along with many of Gateron's 'me-too' switches. It offers something Cherry doesn't (mid-weight linears). And it's incredibly smooth for a stock, unlubed switch.

I'm not a big fan of linears, having only tried MX Blacks and Reds, but I have some Gateron Yellow on the way for testing. And it cost hardly anything to order 50 for a 'testing quantity.'

As they say, innovation occurs at the point of production. Since parts of China are major lower-wage integrated manufacturing hubs, it's easy for them to experiment with concepts. Since they're already set up for mass production, and they have lots of engineers and workers, they can play with ideas and put them into production relatively fast. The penalty for failure and a bad idea is probably lower for Gateron than for Cherry.
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 May 2019, 10:37:35 by HungerMechanic »

Offline Surefoot

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 08:14:38 »
Cherry has a super-light linear (MX Red) and a relatively-heavy linear (MX Black). But nothing in-between. MX Red is too light for many people, and some say it should never have existed. And MX Black is too heavy for comfortable use for many. So why no middle ground after decades of switch production?
The MX Nature White switches i am typing on right now disagree with that statement...
(source: https://www.cherry.de/PDF/EN_CHERRY_MX_RGB_NATURE_WHITE.pdf  - i am using a Ducky Shine 6 here)
They are quite fine, with the usual caveats for Cherry switches with transparent housing.

Offline TeacherGeek

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 13 May 2019, 14:35:35 »
I've tried Gateron Browns on a number of keyboards at meetups, and on my own testing keyboard.

Gateron Browns are relatively smooth. They are smoother than pre-retooled Cherry MX Browns. The MX Browns for several years leading up to 2016 were very scratchy. Gateron Browns became popular in that time frame, for being cheaper and allegedly better than MX Browns.

After Cherry retooled its browns slightly, some observers have been saying that Cherry retooled its Browns to more resemble Gateron's.

I've heard different things about the 'tactile bump' on Gateron Browns. People say that the Gateron's 'bump' is more distinct. But that hasn't been my experience. The ones I tried on my own keyboard almost felt like linears.

Anyway, Gateron Browns do feel good on a TADA68 (especially with metal case), so try that if you get a chance.

Others have pointed out why Gateron switches are so cheap. Basically, Gateron is part of a new global centre of mass-manufacturing MX switches. They benefit from the lower labour costs and economies of scale in China. I'm sure the Gateron plant is deeply integrated with, or at least proximate to, other areas of keyboard manufacturing in China.

Gateron has been really innovating in the last few years. Chinese manufacturers like Kailh and Gateron are trying to assume leadership of MX switch production, or at least raise their own profile, by filling in all sorts of 'gaps' in the Cherry MX lineup.

For example, Cherry produces the MX Clear heavy tactile, but no light version of that same tactile. That where (Gateron) Zealios come in. They make something similar to the 'Ergo Clear' mod that end-users made, but Cherry never deigned to produce.

Kailh has gone crazy, making all sorts of slight variants. There's Kailh Brown [almost an MX Brown clone], BOX Brown [the Brown concept but on a BOX mechanism] Halo Trues [a heavy semi-tactile], Pro Purples [a lighter Halo True], BOX Burnt Orange, which is just a heavy brown, various 'speed' switches, and so on.

But I like what Gateron is doing. Look at their 'Gateron Yellow' switch, for example. Cherry has a super-light linear (MX Red) and a relatively-heavy linear (MX Black). But nothing in-between. MX Red is too light for many people, and some say it should never have existed. And MX Black is too heavy for comfortable use for many. So why no middle ground after decades of switch production?

In comes the Gateron Yellow. It's affordably priced, along with many of Gateron's 'me-too' switches. It offers something Cherry doesn't (mid-weight linears). And it's incredibly smooth for a stock, unlubed switch.

I'm not a big fan of linears, having only tried MX Blacks and Reds, but I have some Gateron Yellow on the way for testing. And it cost hardly anything to order 50 for a 'testing quantity.'

As they say, innovation occurs at the point of production. Since parts of China are major lower-wage integrated manufacturing hubs, it's easy for them to experiment with concepts. Since they're already set up for mass production, and they have lots of engineers and workers, they can play with ideas and put them into production relatively fast. The penalty for failure and a bad idea is probably lower for Gateron than for Cherry.

You win a prize for this post.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 14 May 2019, 20:30:57 »
Cherry has a super-light linear (MX Red) and a relatively-heavy linear (MX Black). But nothing in-between. MX Red is too light for many people, and some say it should never have existed. And MX Black is too heavy for comfortable use for many. So why no middle ground after decades of switch production?
The MX Nature White switches i am typing on right now disagree with that statement...
(source: https://www.cherry.de/PDF/EN_CHERRY_MX_RGB_NATURE_WHITE.pdf  - i am using a Ducky Shine 6 here)
They are quite fine, with the usual caveats for Cherry switches with transparent housing.

Fair enough. MX Nature Whites are a middle-ground between Red and Black.

I forgot about them, though, because I have never seen one in a production board.

And I have read that they are relatively scratchy compared to Gateron Yellows (and Blacks), which are also cheaper, so Gateron is filling in a specific niche. But those nature whites would be good for people who prefer Cherry switches and need an intermediate linear.

Offline Surefoot

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Re: Gateron Switches
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 15 May 2019, 02:43:16 »
I forgot about them, though, because I have never seen one in a production board.
I believe Ducky had the exclusive rights on these switches for about 2 years, this should be gone by now ? Anyways they are found on Ducky boards if you want to try them.

And I have read that they are relatively scratchy compared to Gateron Yellows (and Blacks), which are also cheaper, so Gateron is filling in a specific niche. But those nature whites would be good for people who prefer Cherry switches and need an intermediate linear.
Gaterons are smoother indeed but that's true for all switch colors, they also have better springs on their recent models. These Nature Whites are about on par with other recent Cherry switches in terms of scratchyness and spring noise. They do make sense for a built OEM board, such as the Ducky Shine i am typing on right now..

My point was, yes Cherry provide a middle ground between Red and Black, it's probably not advertised enough...