Alps Appreciation Thread

[chyros]

Question for everyone, whats your oldest board? Technically mine is my Multistation from 1984 but complete boards mine is my FK-3001 from 1989.

Alps-based? My Pingmaster from 1984. My oldest board of all is the Fujitsu N860-8282 from 1979 with tactile magnetic reeds.

[E3E]

Question for everyone, whats your oldest board? Technically mine is my Multistation from 1984 but complete boards mine is my FK-3001 from 1989.

Out of complete boards, probably the blue Alps FAME board I have, but it's impossible to date. Maybe the FK-555 Focus board as well. I have no idea what the date is on the NTC boards. Leading Edge and Acer are from 1989.

The Bondwell and some old typewriters I have are probably the oldest. All of these have linears. Bondwell 8T PRO has cream linear, the typewriters have greens and I think they span from 1984-1986. The typewriters have black switch contact plates in them as well, signifying that they were some of the oldest SKCLs.
 
What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?

I totally derped when I originally typed this.

[chyros]

What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?

I have at least two from 1988, maybe even one from 1987, I need to check my spreadsheet at home xD .

[Magna224]

I think my focus is '88 maybe 87 at the earliest. Pretty sure its dated '88 though.

[do_Og@n]

I've tried a LOT of mechanical switches so far. Here are a couple I've come across:

Cherry:
- Pretty much all of them except for modded blues

ALPS:
- Black, complicated & simplified whites, salmon/pink

Kailh blues
Fujistu Peerless
Futaba clicky and linear
Buckling Spring
Beam Spring (long time ago)
Topre 45g & 55g
Hi-Tek clicky (aka Space Invaders)

I'm most likely missing a few but that's all I can think of for now.

Out of all of them I'm at a tie between MX Greens, Simplified White ALPS, and the Space Invaders. I mostly use the greens since I can get it in a smaller format. Just waiting for a clicky matias tkl with PBT keycaps to come out and I'll hop on it.

[mike52787]

I've tried a LOT of mechanical switches so far. Here are a couple I've come across:

Cherry:
- Pretty much all of them except for modded blues

ALPS:
- Black, complicated & simplified whites, salmon/pink

Kailh blues
Fujistu Peerless
Futaba clicky and linear
Buckling Spring
Beam Spring (long time ago)
Topre 45g & 55g
Hi-Tek clicky (aka Space Invaders)

I'm most likely missing a few but that's all I can think of for now.

Out of all of them I'm at a tie between MX Greens, Simplified White ALPS, and the Space Invaders. I mostly use the greens since I can get it in a smaller format. Just waiting for a clicky matias tkl with PBT keycaps to come out and I'll hop on it.

try blue alps and never go back to cherry

[Mattr567]

Question for everyone, whats your oldest board? Technically mine is my Multistation from 1984 but complete boards mine is my FK-3001 from 1989.

Out of complete boards, probably the blue Alps FAME board I have, but it's impossible to date. Maybe the FK-555 Focus board as well. I have no idea what the date is on the NTC boards. Leading Edge and Acer are from 1989.

The Bondwell and some old typewriters I have are probably the oldest. All of these have linears. Bondwell 8T PRO has cream linear, the typewriters have greens and I think they span from 1984-1986. The typewriters have black switch contact plates in them as well, signifying that they were some of the oldest SKCLs.
 
What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?

I totally derped when I originally typed this.

You have one of those Bondwell's? Cool! Never knew that.

[chyros]

Yeah, my oldest two complicated Alps boards are both from 1988, my Zenith ZKB-2R and Acer KB-101A. The Acer is older by just a few months. The youngest one I have with complicated Alps is a Dell AT101W from 2001, five years off of MouseFan's timeline xD .

[emdude]

I find it pretty surprising that AT101Ws continued to use complicated Alps after the introduction of the SKBM/SKBL series years prior and even after Alps ended their partnership with Forward.

[jbondeson]

I got an amazing condition Focus 2001 with white alps. It has a dust cover and it looks like the previous owner used it religiously. Caps are not yellowed and the switches are very smooth.

I'll have to test it side by side with my Acer KB-101A, but first impressions clean whites compare very favorably to the SKCM Blues.

(Pics to come)

[fohat.digs]

I have never really paid attention to dates on keyboards that don't show them obviously and explicitly.

Several AEKs have been stripped for parts and the "best" one in my permanent collection is about serial number 200K, whatever that equates to IRL.

I have a couple of Northgate Omnikey 101s (I have sold all my other Northgates because I really can't stand layouts other than straight-ANSI (sorry Chyros)) into which I have done transplant operations.

I will admit to the murder of at least 2 - LE2014s for their ancillary parts, and I am not particularly remorseful (they were ugly and yellowed, if that mitigates my crime).

[mrbishop]

I am forcing myself to love alps on a new level. Cleaning and restoring vintage alps clones.

sent from my chess board

[mike52787]

Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.

[Wingpad]

Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.

They are pretty comparable as far as I am concerned, I actually might like them better. Since they are unlubed it's a different kind of smoothness but they feel crisper IMO and rather nice.

I am forcing myself to love alps on a new level. Cleaning and restoring vintage alps clones.

Lol, you're forcing yourself to a level I wasn't willing to go with those switches. Are you planning on putting that board back together? If so, be wary of the controller, I have no idea if it works or not since I didn't have the cable to test it...

Addendum:
Just to update you guys, I did end up getting a DC-2014 with Blue Alps switches for $15. I have something like 400 of them now and no idea what to do with them. I am on the hunt for a board to transfer them into and I am looking for some creative suggestions. I want something with a layout that's close to ANSI, no BAE or the like. I am leaning towards a Northgate Omnikey currently but I am curious what other boards might be out there that I am not aware of. If I wanted to be really different, I would import an x68k keyboard and put them in there but then I would be left with Yellow/Green Alps that I wouldn't what to do with (and that's that I have quite a few of them sitting around as it stands). On that note, I guess an ideal board would be one with switches that I consider "disposable" or wouldn't feel guilty about having sit around An AT101W would be perfect if I could stomach the footprint of the Bigfoot.

[mrbishop]

Not sure what I'm going to do with them yet. But I'm not rebuilding the board.

sent from my chess board

[Wingpad]

Not sure what I'm going to do with them yet. But I'm not rebuilding the board.

I know them feels, I used a bunch of my clone white alps to build a Planck board for a friend on the cheap. We built it all from parts at school except for the caps and the switches so it was done on the uber cheap. As for not rebuilding the board, that's probably a good idea )

Just in case anyone was wondering, this is an excerpt of what "having a problem" looks like:

[mike52787]

A problem I wish I had. my 2nd blue alps board is stuck in china post. damn.

[chyros]

I find it pretty surprising that AT101Ws continued to use complicated Alps after the introduction of the SKBM/SKBL series years prior and even after Alps ended their partnership with Forward.

Considering the scope on which these keyboards were made I'm pretty sure Alps made an ENORMOUS batch of these for Silitek, I suspect millions or even tens of millions.

[fohat.digs]

I am on the hunt for a board to transfer them into and I am looking for some creative suggestions.
I want something with a layout that's close to ANSI, no BAE or the like.
I am leaning towards a Northgate Omnikey currently but I am curious what other boards might be out there that I am not aware of.

An AT101W would be perfect if I could stomach the footprint of the Bigfoot.

Northgate Omnikeys are far and away the best full-size Alps boards. Nothing else is even close.

Dell AT101W is a very solid and well-made board that feels great to type on.
Get a black case and it looks a lot smaller sitting there on the desk.

[mike52787]

I will echo fohat, my experience with omnikeys is very good. Even the avant prime I have is very solid even though it came with simplified alps. Im rebuilding mine with blue alps and a leeku pcb, ala e3e's ncr build. Hopefully someone will sell me a leeku sometime soon. Ive had an ad in classifeds for a few weeks.

[Blaise170]

Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.

I have each in my two Sharp X68K boards and I prefer Greens since they are lighter but Yellows are pretty nice too.

[E3E]

Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.

Here's a chart I made when testing the weights of switches out of curiosity. I used nickles and pennies to approximate the weight, so take it as you will, haha.

SKCM Brown - 75g (tactile leaf causes the stiffness)

SKCL (linear) Brown - 75g

SKCL (linear) Cream - 70g

SKCL Yellow - 65g

Salmon - 65g

White - 65g

Blue - 60g

Orange - 55g

SKCL Green - ~52g

As you can see, yellows are indeed a bit heavier than SKCL Greens, but they aren't all that much heavier. I'd say they'd make a good mid-ground linear switch for those who want something that isn't air light like the SKCL Greens or heavy like SKCL Browns. I always felt that creams were about as heavy as browns, but I tested the weight multiple times, and it was always 5g away.

I think SKCL Yellows are great though. I wouldn't mind using them if I had reason for building a bunch more boards. Right now, I just use what I have for spare parts for other linear switches.
 

I will echo fohat, my experience with omnikeys is very good. Even the avant prime I have is very solid even though it came with simplified alps. Im rebuilding mine with blue alps and a leeku pcb, ala e3e's ncr build. Hopefully someone will sell me a leeku sometime soon. Ive had an ad in classifeds for a few weeks.

That sounds great. I'd be happy to see more Alps builds come out of those Leeku PCBs. I'm sure you'll get one in time.

[Mattr567]

What switch is this? Came off a sharp typewriter on ebay, has nice Alps mount DS caps. Was hoping for SKCL Greens coming from other Sharp's.

[E3E]

What switch is this? Came off a sharp typewriter on ebay, has nice Alps mount DS caps. Was hoping for SKCL Greens coming from other Sharp's.

Show Image

Show Image

Sleuthed for a little bit to find it, but it seems to be this:

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_semi-integrated_dome

[Mattr567]

What switch is this? Came off a sharp typewriter on ebay, has nice Alps mount DS caps. Was hoping for SKCL Greens coming from other Sharp's.

Show Image

Show Image

Sleuthed for a little bit to find it, but it seems to be this:

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_semi-integrated_dome

Huh, looking at that wiki page these aren't very common, that Sharp is a PA-3250. Maybe I can get the seller to just send me the caps.

[Wingpad]

Northgate Omnikeys are far and away the best full-size Alps boards. Nothing else is even close.

Dell AT101W is a very solid and well-made board that feels great to type on.
Get a black case and it looks a lot smaller sitting there on the desk.

I will echo fohat, my experience with omnikeys is very good. Even the avant prime I have is very solid even though it came with simplified alps. Im rebuilding mine with blue alps and a leeku pcb, ala e3e's ncr build. Hopefully someone will sell me a leeku sometime soon. Ive had an ad in classifeds for a few weeks.

Duly noted as far as the AT101W/Omnikey stuff goes. Speaking of the AT101W/Bigfoot and Leeku PCBs, I was thinking about posting an IC to make an Alps equivalent for the Bigfoot boards. I threw together a draft and I've been debating about posting it for a while:

More

After hearing about the Leeku PCBs and how they are compatible with widely available Cherry cases, I began thinking about how a similar concept could be implemented for Alps boards. The ubiquitous Bigfoot reference design came to mind, known by most as the sturdy Dell AT101W keyboard. If such a PCB could be made available, it would offer members of the keyboard community curious about Alps switches a chance to get up and running with a custom keyboard on the cheap. As such, the primary goal of this GB would be to design and produce a PCB that could be dropped into Bigfoot-series Alps keyboards. The secondary goal would be produce Bigfoot-compatible plates that would offer a wider variety of layout options. A tertiary goal could be to add support for SMK Alps-mount switches since the keyboards that utilize those switches are typically "flimsy" (at least relative to a Bigfoot). Adding support for MX-compatible switches would not be outside of realm of possibilities as well.


FAQ:

Q: Which firmware would these boards support?
A: The goal would be to use hasu's TMK firmware.

Q: What would have to be done to get one of these boards up and running?
A: Disassemble the Bigfoot keyboard to get the plate, Attach all of the (new/old) switches to the plate, Solder in the diodes then the switches, Program the MCU, , Profit

Q: Why are you qualified to work on this project?
A: I am educated as a Computer Engineer which means I have experience working with PCB design tools and micro-controllers. I am by no means a professional but I am not an amateur, either.

Q: Do you have any schematics, designs, price estimates or the like?
A: Nope, this IC is simply to check if there would be any interest in this sort of thing in the first place. If it is able to garner enough interest, those things will begin to flow in.

Q: What is "enough" interest?
A: I am going to play it by ear.

[emdude]

The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.

If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.

Haha, thanks for the laugh.  I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be??

Really bad.

The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty

OK, yup, you are right, dear lord.

Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay.  However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode.  The lock lights flash every few seconds as well.  Does anyone know what may be going on here?

[emdude]

Northgate Omnikeys are far and away the best full-size Alps boards. Nothing else is even close.

Dell AT101W is a very solid and well-made board that feels great to type on.
Get a black case and it looks a lot smaller sitting there on the desk.

I will echo fohat, my experience with omnikeys is very good. Even the avant prime I have is very solid even though it came with simplified alps. Im rebuilding mine with blue alps and a leeku pcb, ala e3e's ncr build. Hopefully someone will sell me a leeku sometime soon. Ive had an ad in classifeds for a few weeks.

Duly noted as far as the AT101W/Omnikey stuff goes. Speaking of the AT101W/Bigfoot and Leeku PCBs, I was thinking about posting an IC to make an Alps equivalent for the Bigfoot boards. I threw together a draft and I've been debating about posting it for a while:

More

After hearing about the Leeku PCBs and how they are compatible with widely available Cherry cases, I began thinking about how a similar concept could be implemented for Alps boards. The ubiquitous Bigfoot reference design came to mind, known by most as the sturdy Dell AT101W keyboard. If such a PCB could be made available, it would offer members of the keyboard community curious about Alps switches a chance to get up and running with a custom keyboard on the cheap. As such, the primary goal of this GB would be to design and produce a PCB that could be dropped into Bigfoot-series Alps keyboards. The secondary goal would be produce Bigfoot-compatible plates that would offer a wider variety of layout options. A tertiary goal could be to add support for SMK Alps-mount switches since the keyboards that utilize those switches are typically "flimsy" (at least relative to a Bigfoot). Adding support for MX-compatible switches would not be outside of realm of possibilities as well.


FAQ:

Q: Which firmware would these boards support?
A: The goal would be to use hasu's TMK firmware.

Q: What would have to be done to get one of these boards up and running?
A: Disassemble the Bigfoot keyboard to get the plate, Attach all of the (new/old) switches to the plate, Solder in the diodes then the switches, Program the MCU, , Profit

Q: Why are you qualified to work on this project?
A: I am educated as a Computer Engineer which means I have experience working with PCB design tools and micro-controllers. I am by no means a professional but I am not an amateur, either.

Q: Do you have any schematics, designs, price estimates or the like?
A: Nope, this IC is simply to check if there would be any interest in this sort of thing in the first place. If it is able to garner enough interest, those things will begin to flow in.

Q: What is "enough" interest?
A: I am going to play it by ear.

This sounds pretty neat, if you do open an official IC, I'd definitely watch it!

[Hak Foo]

I love the premise, but I worry people will have a hard time dissecting Bigfoot PCBs with folded-over switches.

OTOH, if you intend to discard the stock switches, you could just split it off with a bandsaw.

[fohat.digs]

but I worry people will have a hard time dissecting Bigfoot PCBs with folded-over switches.

I have de-soldered them with as few as half a dozen bent over, and/or, most recently,  EVERY  SINGLE  ONE !

It's like what Forrest Gump said

[Wingpad]

but I worry people will have a hard time dissecting Bigfoot PCBs with folded-over switches.

I have de-soldered them with as few as half a dozen bent over, and/or, most recently,  EVERY  SINGLE  ONE!

I totally forgot how much of a pain in the rear those folded-over leads were. When I swapped Matias QC's into a Dell AT101W (a board that I later tried to sell but gave up and just gave it to my dad instead) almost everyone of the leads were folded-over.

OTOH, if you intend to discard the stock switches, you could just split it off with a bandsaw.

That being said, this is brilliant.

[Mattr567]

but I worry people will have a hard time dissecting Bigfoot PCBs with folded-over switches.

I have de-soldered them with as few as half a dozen bent over, and/or, most recently,  EVERY  SINGLE  ONE!

I totally forgot how much of a pain in the rear those folded-over leads were. When I swapped Matias QC's into a Dell AT101W (a board that I later tried to sell but gave up and just gave it to my dad instead) almost everyone of the leads were folded-over.

OTOH, if you intend to discard the stock switches, you could just split it off with a bandsaw.

That being said, this is brilliant.

I hate when manufacturers bend the leads. My method is removing as much solder as possible, and then using the iron tip to bend the lead up enough to be straightened safely by a flat head screwdriver or somthing. If you just try to bend it up after desoldering you would very likely lift the pad with it.

[alienman82]

removed.

[emdude]

When I viewed your desoldering video a while back I figured that's what you were using the razor blade for; it's a pretty good idea, going to steal it if you don't mind when I get around to doing some desoldering.

[alienman82]

removed.

[chyros]

The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.

If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.

Haha, thanks for the laugh.  I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be??

Really bad.

The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty

OK, yup, you are right, dear lord.

Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay.  However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode.  The lock lights flash every few seconds as well.  Does anyone know what may be going on here?

Are you using it straight or with a converter?

[Blaise170]

Even though bent leads at annoying, manufacturers never expected people to strip out the switches and they never expected to replace more than a few if there was ever an RMA.

[jacobolus]

Definitely don’t use your soldering iron to unbend leads.

Steps I use and find highly effective:

1. Remove what solder you can from a number of switches (could be the whole board’s worth, or just a batch at a time) using a desoldering iron or a soldapullt

2. Touch the bent-over lead with the soldering iron (to get some heat to it) for a second or two while gently prying upward with a dental pick or other sturdy but pointy metal object. The lead should fairly easily “pop” free of whatever lingering solder is holding it to the pad/hole under the combination of light pressure plus heat. Unstick every lead in your batch.

3. Use some fine snipe nose pliers to unbend each lead, so it is approximately straight.

4. Once you have desoldered and unbent all the leads on the whole board, unscrew any screws and remove the PCB from all the switches, which will now be clipped into a bare plate.

5. (For Alps switches at least) Carefully push in the plastic tabs holding each switch into the plate to remove the switch without snapping the tabs off. If you do this carefully you’ll break almost none of the tabs.

Once you get the hang of this, it only takes about twice as long as a regular desoldering job.

* * *

If you don’t like desoldering bent-over leads, make sure to never desolder the Alps plate spring switches from an IBM P70. 4 bent-over leads per switch, all stuck down hard to the pads.

[need]

Does anyone know whether stock tactile matias switches are supposed to be lubed?
I recently got some and they are surprisingly smooth, and when I opened them I saw lube inside.

[Wingpad]

Definitely don’t use your soldering iron to unbend leads.

Steps I use and find highly effective:

1. Remove what solder you can from a number of switches (could be the whole board’s worth, or just a batch at a time) using a desoldering iron or a soldapullt

2. Touch the bent-over lead with the soldering iron (to get some heat to it) for a second or two while gently prying upward with a dental pick or other sturdy but pointy metal object. The lead should fairly easily “pop” free of whatever lingering solder is holding it to the pad/hole under the combination of light pressure plus heat. Unstick every lead in your batch.

3. Use some fine snipe nose pliers to unbend each lead, so it is approximately straight.

4. Once you have desoldered and unbent all the leads on the whole board, unscrew any screws and remove the PCB from all the switches, which will now be clipped into a bare plate.

5. (For Alps switches at least) Carefully push in the plastic tabs holding each switch into the plate to remove the switch without snapping the tabs off. If you do this carefully you’ll break almost none of the tabs.

Once you get the hang of this, it only takes about twice as long as a regular desoldering job.

* * *

If you don’t like desoldering bent-over leads, make sure to never desolder the Alps plate spring switches from an IBM P70. 4 bent-over leads per switch, all stuck down hard to the pads.

Thanks! I will definitely have to try this next time I am working on bent-over leads!

Does anyone know whether stock tactile matias switches are supposed to be lubed?
I recently got some and they are surprisingly smooth, and when I opened them I saw lube inside.

All of the stock switches I have received are lubed, I think they're supposed to be that way.

[emdude]

The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.

If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.

Haha, thanks for the laugh.  I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be??

Really bad.

The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty

OK, yup, you are right, dear lord.

Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay.  However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode.  The lock lights flash every few seconds as well.  Does anyone know what may be going on here?

Are you using it straight or with a converter?

No converter, I suppose that's the issue here then?  Guess I need to pick up a Soarer's or something..

[chyros]

The PCjr keyboard is one of the worst keyboards of all time. I had one growing up. The ****ing wireless feature didn't even work. Jesus H Christ I still have nightmares about that thing. It's probably the reason I care so much about keyboard feel today.

If you ever have doubts about this hobby, try typing a few sentences on a PCjr keyboard. You'll probably immediately buy a Realforce with an artisan for each key just to cleanse your soul afterward.

Haha, thanks for the laugh.  I am genuinely curious about how the PCjr keyboard feels though, I mean, it's just a rubber dome, how bad could it be??

Really bad.

The 2nd gen at least had normal keycaps, but if I remember right, the mechanism still felt just as ****ty

OK, yup, you are right, dear lord.

Anyhow, I also got my FK-5001, the calculator works when plugged in so yay.  However, the keyboard itself doesn't, despite being set on AT-mode.  The lock lights flash every few seconds as well.  Does anyone know what may be going on here?

Are you using it straight or with a converter?

No converter, I suppose that's the issue here then?  Guess I need to pick up a Soarer's or something..

Your port is probably not supplying enough power to the keyboard, so yeah, some kind of converter would probably help. Regardless, a good converter is worth the investment, they're easily among my best tools.

[emdude]

Okay, thanks Chyros!  I'll take a look into that once I finish cleaning up the Focus.

[jbondeson]

Here's some pictures of the Focus I got.





This is all before even cleaning the caps.   

What's also nice is that these seem to be the same manufacturer of caps that made the caps on my Acer KB-101A (which are yellowed pretty bad) so I can mix in some of the mods from the Acer with these pristine alphas and get a classic ANSI set.

Also after some side-by-side comparisons the whites are a touch heavier and more tactile than the blues, but you really need them side by side to tell the increased smoothness from the blues. I may just use them as is and not even bother trying to re-lube them.

[CPTBadAss]

Any of you guys have any experience with SKCL yellow? ive been looking at zenith boards lately and I really want one, but I want to know what risk im taking if if I get yellow alps and not green.

I had such a weird experience with SKCL Yellows. I once bought a cheap Zenith thinking it would have SKCL Greens and I wanted some extras. Didn't even realize that SKCL Yellows were a thing so I didn't bother checking anything from the seller. Got the board in hand and discovered Yellows existed. Every account I've read so far has put the SKCL Yellows as heavier than SKCL Greens. But from my very subjective testing, I found they were lighter. In my head, SKCL Greens were to MX Blacks as SKCL Yellows were to MX Reds. In fact they were so light I immediately sold the board. I'm not a fan of really light switches. Now I wonder if I should've tried cleaning the board up and testing it again before selling it off.

What's everyone's oldest board with complicated Alps?

I'm terrible. I don't actually have any non-modded vintage Alps boards. I guess the oldest board I have is the Siig Minitouch I have. It had SKCM Whites in it originally but I swapped them to Orange SKCM. Not 100% sure on the date though.

[Mattr567]

Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.

[mike52787]

Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.

**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.

[Mattr567]

Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.

**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.

Some other guy won for 64, I put in 63.

[mike52787]

Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.

**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.

Some other guy won for 64, I put in 63.

us geekhackers need to communicate more about what were buying I guess. its a shame when youre bidding against someone else on here. if we do that, we can keep the prices low for everyone on the common stuff

[Mattr567]

Dammit, didnt win that Zenith 163-73 on ebay. That was going to be my SKCM Blue swap candidate since the guy with the Wang 725 bailed on me He hasn't responded and deleted his cl ad.

**** man, I was bidding against you on that. sorry! I bid up to 55$, not sure what it went for.

Some other guy won for 64, I put in 63.

us geekhackers need to communicate more about what were buying I guess. its a shame when youre bidding against someone else on here. if we do that, we can keep the prices low for everyone on the common stuff

Yea, wonder who won it.

So now I need a board and idk what to pick.

Right now its
ZKB-2/163-73
AEKII
Omnikey 101 ANSI
Wang 725

They all have have nice caps and an ansi layout and are built well. The AEKII is cheapest by far but isnt as special. Plus I had one previously. 

Any other suggestions/thoughts ?