Author Topic: [IC] Key 65  (Read 106575 times)

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Offline kzlow

  • Posts: 10
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #450 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 00:57:32 »
Is it me or are those plate's keys placements in the photos are a little odd?

Offline infamousvincci

  • Posts: 44
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #451 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 01:45:00 »
Is there gonna be a GB for this?

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Offline //gainsborough

  • Posts: 362
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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #452 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 02:32:51 »
Is there gonna be a GB for this?


GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.

Offline happycamper87

  • Posts: 92
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #453 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 03:06:26 »
Between the 2 logos (kanji/chinese character and the key), are they both created the same way? the key logo looks like it uses a separately milled piece which is discrete from the top case while the kanji logo looks like its engraved directly on the top part of the case.

Offline SoraNoTenshi

  • Posts: 112
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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #454 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 03:48:17 »
Finally! :D

I didn't expect it to run that early... well guess i will hunger for quite some time then... D:



Offline Riskymilk

  • Posts: 36
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #455 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 09:50:07 »
Do you know what time the group buy will open?

Offline SoraNoTenshi

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Offline ghstgrl

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #457 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 10:08:43 »
I'm hoping we can get front, full case shots along with more details about how the badges are - are both the key and kanji logo made the same way or is the kanji engraved? Would also like to see a build with caps if possible. I do like the board and would join the GB but only if we can get all the clear details about layout, materials, colors, etc.
Space65 | Thera75 | NIZ TKL | Think6.5 v2 | Lily58
GMK Olivia | Comfy PBT | GMK Yuru
Upcoming:
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Offline BIG_BUCKNUT

  • Posts: 16
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #458 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 13:15:32 »
Yeah I would also be interested in knowing what the top right logo will look like on the PC version especially.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Finalized the logo options
« Reply #459 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 13:50:50 »
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:

1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)

2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized

1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs

2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.

What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?

And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?

The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #460 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 13:58:01 »
Does the pcb have build in under side led? Is there gonna be ona proxy site or like a google form order type of thing


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No native bottom LEDs supported due to how easy they can be damaged during the shipping. They are serial connected. One LED brokes then all the rest don't work. I had a bad time doing the after-sale service for one of the previous PCB with native bottom LEDs.
LED strips can be easily soldered to the bottom of the PCB with the extension pinouts.

Yeah, we'll use google form this time.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #461 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 14:01:33 »
So what materials have actually been decided?

Aluminum, POM, and PC for case material.
Alu, PC, and Titanium for plates.
Alu and brass for weights.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #462 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 14:04:34 »
Between the 2 logos (kanji/chinese character and the key), are they both created the same way? the key logo looks like it uses a separately milled piece which is discrete from the top case while the kanji logo looks like its engraved directly on the top part of the case.

In different ways. Your understanding is correct.

Offline ACF101015

  • Posts: 16
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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #463 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 21:12:36 »
Are there any updates to pricing beyond the $295 estimate?

Offline prototype26

  • Posts: 67
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Finalized the logo options
« Reply #464 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 21:28:26 »
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:

1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)

2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized

1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs

2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.

What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?

And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?

The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.

Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?

This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.

But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.

As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.

If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.

You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2019, 21:40:54 by prototype26 »

Offline vicot

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #465 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 22:20:50 »
I prefer the 7u layout for the hotswap pcb :^)

Offline Sigil

  • Posts: 22
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Finalized the logo options
« Reply #466 on: Mon, 23 September 2019, 23:16:26 »
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:

1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)

2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized

1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs

2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.

What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?

And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?

The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.

Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?

This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.

But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.

As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.

If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.

You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.

Two things:

1: 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards does not imply any sort of advantage on its own. Being more common is not, by itself, a positive thing (if anything, it could be a negative in a community like this). The associated advantage is supposed to be broader keycap compatibility, but 7u bottom row is an extremely common setup to support in enthusiast keysets. GMK is the manufacturer of choice for keycaps in the community right now, and every GMK set that I've seen in recent years supports 7u bottom row in the base kit, so I really don't think that keyset compatibility is a major issue here for most buyers. What keysets are people trying to use that don't support 7u bottom row? The factors that differentiate the two bottom row options, then, are left to aesthetics and functionality, and it's harder to make an argument that 6.25u is somehow objectively superior in those regards. That's a can of worms I don't want to open.

2: If neither bottom row option is objectively superior (or even if one is, really), 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards as a whole doesn't mean that the majority of potential buyers of this keyboard would prefer 6.25u over 7u. You don't have any data to support that, so I don't really get your argument. It seems to boil down to "I like X, and lots of other people in the world like X, so X should be the thing of choice for everything, everywhere." Not every keyboard has to be for every person, or even the majority of people in the wider community. If you want to try and prove that the group of people interested in this keyboard would on average prefer 6.25u over 7u (and I don't just mean counting the people and taking the larger number), that's fine, and you would then have a decent argument for changing the default (in the absence of strong feelings from the designer). But without that proof, your argument doesn't seem convincing. You can make your argument about ISO because of the numbers involved, but that's not the case here. A board can be successful with a default 7u bottom row. See the U80-A and the Koyu, for recent examples. Why would a designer with an interest in broad appeal like RAMA have 7u as the default bottom row? Because they like it more, and the market will support it.

Offline happycamper87

  • Posts: 92
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #467 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 00:46:21 »
Personally not getting a hotswap pcb due to the lack of split backspace but I like the fact that it supports 7u space. I doubt anyone who plans on spending upwards of $300 shipped on this board intends to slap some cheap keyset on it without any 7u compatibility. Hell, I cant even think of any sets out there that support standard 65% ONLY. 99% of 65% compatible sets will have compatibility for 7u.  So even your point which states 6.25u makes more sense because its more common isnt really true in the case for this board.

Offline prototype26

  • Posts: 67
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Finalized the logo options
« Reply #468 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 00:53:32 »
The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:

1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)

2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized

1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs

2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.

What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?

And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?

The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.

Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?

This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.

But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.

As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.

If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.

You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.

Two things:

1: 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards does not imply any sort of advantage on its own. Being more common is not, by itself, a positive thing (if anything, it could be a negative in a community like this). The associated advantage is supposed to be broader keycap compatibility, but 7u bottom row is an extremely common setup to support in enthusiast keysets. GMK is the manufacturer of choice for keycaps in the community right now, and every GMK set that I've seen in recent years supports 7u bottom row in the base kit, so I really don't think that keyset compatibility is a major issue here for most buyers. What keysets are people trying to use that don't support 7u bottom row? The factors that differentiate the two bottom row options, then, are left to aesthetics and functionality, and it's harder to make an argument that 6.25u is somehow objectively superior in those regards. That's a can of worms I don't want to open.

2: If neither bottom row option is objectively superior (or even if one is, really), 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards as a whole doesn't mean that the majority of potential buyers of this keyboard would prefer 6.25u over 7u. You don't have any data to support that, so I don't really get your argument. It seems to boil down to "I like X, and lots of other people in the world like X, so X should be the thing of choice for everything, everywhere." Not every keyboard has to be for every person, or even the majority of people in the wider community. If you want to try and prove that the group of people interested in this keyboard would on average prefer 6.25u over 7u (and I don't just mean counting the people and taking the larger number), that's fine, and you would then have a decent argument for changing the default (in the absence of strong feelings from the designer). But without that proof, your argument doesn't seem convincing. You can make your argument about ISO because of the numbers involved, but that's not the case here. A board can be successful with a default 7u bottom row. See the U80-A and the Koyu, for recent examples. Why would a designer with an interest in broad appeal like RAMA have 7u as the default bottom row? Because they like it more, and the market will support it.

The logo kinda grows on me to be honest, I like it better now. Some questions tho:

1. Will there be extra hotswap pcb with standard layout? (2u bspace, 6.25u spacebar etc)

2. Any anodized option, specifically Teal / Turquoise / Tiffany Blue color? I know you will have e-teal but wonder if it's available anodized

1. The hotswap PCB supports 7u space and 2u bs

2. Two anodized colors will be available. They are blue and grey.

What kind of blue is it? Is it teal or dark blue?

And please won’t you make the hotswap PCB has standard layout (6.25u space) as it’s more common for keycaps?

The anode blue is about the same with blue in the render with GMK Nautilus in OP.
No, another group of people will argue the 7u space layout is better if we change.

Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?

This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.

But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.

As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.

If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.

You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.

Two things:

1: 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards does not imply any sort of advantage on its own. Being more common is not, by itself, a positive thing (if anything, it could be a negative in a community like this). The associated advantage is supposed to be broader keycap compatibility, but 7u bottom row is an extremely common setup to support in enthusiast keysets. GMK is the manufacturer of choice for keycaps in the community right now, and every GMK set that I've seen in recent years supports 7u bottom row in the base kit, so I really don't think that keyset compatibility is a major issue here for most buyers. What keysets are people trying to use that don't support 7u bottom row? The factors that differentiate the two bottom row options, then, are left to aesthetics and functionality, and it's harder to make an argument that 6.25u is somehow objectively superior in those regards. That's a can of worms I don't want to open.

2: If neither bottom row option is objectively superior (or even if one is, really), 6.25u bottom row being more common on keyboards as a whole doesn't mean that the majority of potential buyers of this keyboard would prefer 6.25u over 7u. You don't have any data to support that, so I don't really get your argument. It seems to boil down to "I like X, and lots of other people in the world like X, so X should be the thing of choice for everything, everywhere." Not every keyboard has to be for every person, or even the majority of people in the wider community. If you want to try and prove that the group of people interested in this keyboard would on average prefer 6.25u over 7u (and I don't just mean counting the people and taking the larger number), that's fine, and you would then have a decent argument for changing the default (in the absence of strong feelings from the designer). But without that proof, your argument doesn't seem convincing. You can make your argument about ISO because of the numbers involved, but that's not the case here. A board can be successful with a default 7u bottom row. See the U80-A and the Koyu, for recent examples. Why would a designer with an interest in broad appeal like RAMA have 7u as the default bottom row? Because they like it more, and the market will support it.

When I mentioned "common", I meant in terms of keycap compability. Sure, the numbers of hotswap 7u boards may be even or more than 6.25u, but the number of existing boards don't really matter because in the end it falls down to keycap size compability. There can be 100 7u boards out there but if the sum of existing 6.25u base kit caps are 1000 that explains 6.25u is the more generic size doesn't it?

Before the current GMK boom like now, it was either 6.25u spacebar in the base kit and 7u in separate kit, OR both were in the base kit. Now both are commonly available in the same kit. Meaning if the hotswap pcb has 6.25u, it can support both old and new keycap sets. More compability, who doesn't like that?

I may not have the exact statistics to back this up, but are what I said that far off from the reality?

Offline happycamper87

  • Posts: 92
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #469 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 01:03:33 »
I get what you're saying, especially the bit about only recent sets being more friendly towards 7u. I guess the point I was trying to make is that not many sets that support 65% will not have any support for 7u. I could be wrong though so feel free to correct me on this if ever.

I'm still getting the regular soldered pcb though :p

Offline prototype26

  • Posts: 67
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #470 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 01:05:02 »
Personally not getting a hotswap pcb due to the lack of split backspace but I like the fact that it supports 7u space. I doubt anyone who plans on spending upwards of $300 shipped on this board intends to slap some cheap keyset on it without any 7u compatibility. Hell, I cant even think of any sets out there that support standard 65% ONLY. 99% of 65% compatible sets will have compatibility for 7u.  So even your point which states 6.25u makes more sense because its more common isnt really true in the case for this board.

Older SA sets that are still relevant (and not "some cheap keyset") don't have 7u in their base kits. I know GMK is more loved but can we share some for SA too?

I get what you're saying, especially the bit about only recent sets being more friendly towards 7u. I guess the point I was trying to make is that not many sets that support 65% will not have any support for 7u. I could be wrong though so feel free to correct me on this if ever.

I'm still getting the regular soldered pcb though :p

Yeah, but the thing is if it's 7u, 6.25u isn't compatible. But if it's 6.25u, both parties can enjoy their hotswap pcb! The more compatibility the merrier.
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2019, 01:10:53 by prototype26 »

Offline badboy731

  • Posts: 66
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #471 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 02:28:15 »
Just wanted to chime in that going with the 7u over the 6.25 for the hotswap is weird to me. Generally comments about this tend to lean towards the 6.25, but of course that does not account for everyone else. Perhaps 7u is more favored than I originally thought. Personally I would prefer the 6.25 but can accommodate the 7. Either way I will support whatever you guys choose to do.
E7-V1 | TGR Jane v2 CE | HBCP | GSKT-00 | Raine | AOS

Offline infamousvincci

  • Posts: 44
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #472 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 03:28:01 »
Is there gonna be a GB for this?


GB will start on Sept. 25th and last two weeks.
Im ready to order :)

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Offline evorus5

  • Posts: 57
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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #473 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 10:17:08 »
Will you open source the plate files?    ;)


Offline Feenoh

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #474 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 13:03:04 »
  my dumbass thought today was the 25th😭 any updates on pricing?

Offline dannyny

  • Posts: 44
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #475 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 18:38:44 »
Is there a set amount of keyboards or will go unlimited for two weeks?

Offline JacobTN

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #476 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 22:27:05 »
Ready to buy :p

Offline nu_types

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #477 on: Tue, 24 September 2019, 22:30:21 »
Is there a set amount of keyboards or will go unlimited for two weeks?

They've stated before that there isn't a limit.

Offline infamousvincci

  • Posts: 44
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #478 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 03:59:30 »
Where do we order one?

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Offline littleairbison

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #479 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 04:39:03 »
I'm so ready for this GB! Where do we purchase?

Offline JacobTN

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #480 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:15:59 »
soooo where can i spend my money?

Offline fakedSkill

  • Posts: 49
Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #481 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:21:23 »
ETA?

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Finalized the logo options
« Reply #482 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:46:59 »

Honestly, I don't get your argument. Why choose something uncommon over common?

This is different than the case of your logo. You can use that argument on that since it's purely subjective and there's no standardization of how a logo usually looks.

But this is not the same as that. It's an objective and undeniable fact that 6.25u is a standard layout that's more common. Meanwhile, 7u is not.

As a comparison, this is just as bizarre as a base keycap kit with ISO caps instead of ANSI caps. They can argue all they want ISO is better but the fact remains that ANSI is more general.

If they want more variety than the standard layout, shouldn't they get solder PCB instead? Isn't that supposed to be the key difference between solder and hotswap? You can't change layout in hotswap, that's why the layout should be standard.

You can see that a lot of people under my previous post asking for 6.25u hotswap pcb. Please, make it possible.

1. We are providing 6 versions of top cases, and 3 of them are WKL layout. 6.25u layout works only on WK tops. 7u layout works on both WK and WKL tops.
2. The hotswap PCB for Leaf 60 was WKL layout. Half of the buyers chose that version.
3. It's not that we don't provide 6.25u layout support. The soldered PCB always support the 6.25u layout. On the level of this whole group buy, we're not making it less compatible.
4. I prefer the WKL layout. This is settled. Sorry.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #483 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:51:03 »
Will you open source the plate files?    ;)

Yes. I'm working on the Fox Lab website. I'll open source the plate files for all the Fox Lab kits. The firmware, screw sizes, and other information will be included on the website. It's not a website that I wish many people to visit. It will serve as a database if people need information about our kits. 

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65 (old name NR65) | Prototyping finished
« Reply #484 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:52:51 »
ETA?

I'm so ready for this GB! Where do we purchase?

soooo where can i spend my money?

Where do we order one?

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk



I've submitted the GB post and am waiting for the approval.
This IC post will be locked after GB post is on.

Offline senter

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Re: [IC] Key 65
« Reply #485 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 09:53:03 »
1

Offline Signature

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  • snoozing
Re: [IC] Key 65
« Reply #486 on: Wed, 25 September 2019, 10:40:43 »
Very busy with studies atm.