geekhack Community > Ergonomics
Need New Ergo Keyboard (for Programmer)
CaptainKirk:
--- Quote from: keyb_gr;138032 ---Ah, now I've got an idea of why the OP doesn't like the feel of his board... Even original black Alps aren't among my favs by any stretch - bottoming out is nearly unavoidable. The KBPC E / Maxim would be about the exact opposite, and browns and blues would be rather different too.
--- End quote ---
Could you explain this in layman's terms? I suppose my Datadesk does sound something like this but what does "bottoming out" mean?
And what is the opposite of black Alps?
Thanks!
ch_123:
Bottoming out is when you press the key all the way down to the bottom. Unlike regular keyboards, on a mechanical keyboard, switches activate anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 way down. The Black Alps switches are particularly unforgiving on your fingers to type on. I usually don't have any RSI/CTS problems, but when typing on a Black Alps board for a while, my hand and shoulder tends to get quite sore. This is largely due to the rather bad design of the switches - they are stiff, and all the pressure is concentrated at the top, this means that you have to press quite hard on the key and then you hit the bottom quite hard. It also makes it slower to type on.
As far as I know, the Kinesis uses brown Cherry switches, these are effectively an opposite of the Black Alps. They are nowhere near as stiff, you'll definitely find that typing on these switches is quicker and less tiring.
Incidentally, do you have any specific RSI issues that require you to use an ergo keyboard? I say this because a lot of people come here looking for ergo keyboards because they find regular keyboards painful, and end up using regular layout keyboards with mechanical switches. I'd even argue that in some ways, the compact keyboards like the HHKB or Filco Tenkeyless are even more ergonomic because they allow you to have your hands closer together when using the mouse.
MsKeyboard:
Considering what you use now, and the limited options available in your region, you may find that the Kinesis Freestyle Solo will give you the most flexibility (in terms of options). I won't get into switch design, but as far as having one board that can be positioned in an almost unlimited manner you will find the Solo very accommodating.
YMMV, but you should not be disappointed.
Later..........
CaptainKirk:
--- Quote from: ch_123;138053 ---Bottoming out is when you press the key all the way down to the bottom. Unlike regular keyboards, on a mechanical keyboard, switches activate anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 way down. The Black Alps switches are particularly unforgiving on your fingers to type on. I usually don't have any RSI/CTS problems, but when typing on a Black Alps board for a while, my hand and shoulder tends to get quite sore. This is largely due to the rather bad design of the switches - they are stiff, and all the pressure is concentrated at the top, this means that you have to press quite hard on the key and then you hit the bottom quite hard. It also makes it slower to type on.
--- End quote ---
I see exactly what you mean!! In fact I DO get pains a bit in the tips of my fingers after a day of a lot typing. Never really thought about it so much, that it was due to difficult to press keys.
--- Quote from: ch_123;138053 ---
As far as I know, the Kinesis uses brown Cherry switches, these are effectively an opposite of the Black Alps. They are nowhere near as stiff, you'll definitely find that typing on these switches is quicker and less tiring.
--- End quote ---
Groovy. I'm ordering now! :)
--- Quote from: ch_123;138053 ---
Incidentally, do you have any specific RSI issues that require you to use an ergo keyboard? I say this because a lot of people come here looking for ergo keyboards because they find regular keyboards painful, and end up using regular layout keyboards with mechanical switches. I'd even argue that in some ways, the compact keyboards like the HHKB or Filco Tenkeyless are even more ergonomic because they allow you to have your hands closer together when using the mouse.
--- End quote ---
No I don't have RSI. But I do know that when I switched to the MS Natural Ego many years ago, I felt it was easier to use. I think that the pronation issue clearly makes ergo keyboards easier to use. There is of course a learning curve.
You are also correct that the lack of a numeric keypad assists in having the right hand closer to the mouse (for righties like me), but I see no reason to suggest that having the left hand close to the right is of any benefit whatsoever. I have not researched any studies on RSI but certainly there is ample anectodal evidence that ergonomic keyboards are easier on the hands.
--- Quote from: MsKeyboard;138057 ---Considering what you use now, and the limited options available in your region, you may find that the Kinesis Freestyle Solo will give you the most flexibility (in terms of options). I won't get into switch design, but as far as having one board that can be positioned in an almost unlimited manner you will find the Solo very accommodating.
YMMV, but you should not be disappointed.
.
--- End quote ---
Great. That is exactly what I presumed. The VIP attachment looks nice but I will wait and see if I like the keyboard first. :)
Thank you both for your posts.
alexlzl:
--- Quote from: CaptainKirk;137955 ---Thank you. The more I look into it, it seems the Kinesis Freestyle Solo Keyboard is even nicer than the Maxim. Seems definitely more flexible. I also just realized that it has an integrated keypad on the right side. I guess one of the far left buttons toggles that feature. Looks good to me actually.
Unless there's a better idea, I think I will try that keyboard.
Thanks.
--- End quote ---
I tried Kinesis Freestyle one year ago and it has the most terrible rubber dome switches. The key feels really smooshy. At the moment I never have even typed on a mechanical switch yet and decided to return it right away.
I am typing on Kineiss Contoured right now, the layout and Cherry Brown is quite nice. I wouldn't worry about the F* keys, turns out I don't even use them that much, and it doesn't bother me to be small (I use Intellij IDE).
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