[IC] Alps DCS Infinity mods kit

[Badwrench]

Hello friends.  With the failure of my "Delta Blues" set, I have been doing a little thinking as to what type of caps us users of the Alps would be interested.  Doing a whole set is very difficult for a number of reasons (cost/compatibility/color-way), so I think I am going try another route to get us started down the SP and Alps road. 

The goal of this IC is to get some feedback on colors and optional keys that alps Infinity users would like (kit may also fit any potentially upcoming 60% boards?).  I would prefer to keep the colors classic so that the kit matches the majority of the boards that are out there ie: beige/grey so that the options of picking alphas for your infinity/custom are less limiting. 


As of right now, this is my proposed set:


Colors for the kit are NN/BX and are done in double shot abs with a DCS profile so that it matches the majority of existing alps caps.  The only oddity is the space bar which SP currently only has molds in DSA profile for.  I will try to match the most popular existing alps kits so that there are 2-3 options for colors on the space bar.  The other option is to order a black or white one in from Matias.  The profile from Matias is very close to DCS but with a more rounded front edge. 


List of contributors for legends:
Nubbinator:  "Alps" mountain logo for win keys. 
Njbair:  "Alps" mountain logo for winkeyless. 

More

jdcarpe:  "slider" logo

More

http://www.unixstickers.com/image/cache/data/stickers/hackerEmblem/Hacker-logo.sh-600x600.png

[mr.squishy]

How much do these generally run for?
Personally I like the darker green.
I mean I'm in. Probably. As long as it isn't $40 a set.
Also, a key puller would be pretty awesome.

[engicoder]

I think a color set is a good idea....getting a consensus on which color may be difficult, but I'm in regardless. A few suggestions

• Use only 1u - 1.75u caps  for this buy. They are cheaper and it eliminates the stabilizer issue that was a source of contention on the last buy.
• Run it directly (the old fashioned way), and not through PMK. I am willing to help in any way I can with that. My Rad Hard deal went pretty smoothly.

[Badwrench]

I think a color set is a good idea....getting a consensus on which color may be difficult, but I'm in regardless. A few suggestions

• Use only 1u - 1.75u caps  for this buy. They are cheaper and it eliminates the stabilizer issue that was a source of contention on the last buy.
• Run it directly (the old fashioned way), and not through PMK. I am willing to help in any way I can with that. My Rad Hard deal went pretty smoothly.

I am totally down to do it direct and have no problem doing it myself.  As far as adding the stabilized caps - they are there to give people that bought the Infinity board on Massdrop and plan to use Alps/Matias switches a source for those caps. 

If you look at my current buy on PMK, most of the child deals are at $26 starting point and I figure this will probably fall in that range as well (unless we get over 50 sets ordered, and then it drops dramatically). 

[jdcarpe]

Yeah, no more PMK, please.

I prefer the orange and black, myself.

I'd definitely be in for a couple sets.

[geniekid]

Are there many vintage Alps boards with DCS profile caps?  Regardless, I'd get some color packs!  Mixed profile on my Infinity is still better than...no caps )

[jacobolus]

Most Alps keycaps are a profile like this:


Or like this:


Or Apple caps, like this:


DCS is this:


In other words, not quite the same (in particular, a bit shorter), but also not impossibly far off.

(pics taken from my thread here, https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550)

[engicoder]

I am totally down to do it direct and have no problem doing it myself.  As far as adding the stabilized caps - they are there to give people that bought the Infinity board on Massdrop and plan to use Alps/Matias switches a source for those caps. 

Holy Moly!! I didn't appreciate at how many infinity boards they had sold. In that light, seems like stabilized caps targeting those boards makes sense.

[CPTBadAss]

5k177 was the original user that had those caps made AFAIK. I don't think they should be in these new sets. Plus the 5k177 cap that I just received was MX stem. The rest of the caps were Alps.

The OG color scheme is quite nice and I could take pictures of my set if you like. I'd also love to see:

- Pink on Purple
- Orange on Black
- Blue on Pink or vice versa (whichever has the better contrast)
- Anything with teal
- Of course, anything with purple

[Applet]

I'd be in for a set, would love to have the ISO 1.25 shift also, but it is not crucial To bad that the Delta Blues probably wont tip

[Badwrench]

5k177 was the original user that had those caps made AFAIK. I don't think they should be in these new sets. Plus the 5k177 cap that I just received was MX stem. The rest of the caps were Alps.

The OG color scheme is quite nice and I could take pictures of my set if you like. I'd also love to see:

- Pink on Purple
- Orange on Black
- Blue on Pink or vice versa (whichever has the better contrast)
- Anything with teal
- Of course, anything with purple

Ahh, didn't realize that was the original user that made that set.  I will pull it now that I know. 

I will do a few more mock-ups with different colors and post them in the op to get more feedback.  As of right now, I am leaning to the black on orange with JD.  It feels to me like the current "geekhack" set. 

[jdcarpe]

5k177 was the original user that had those caps made AFAIK. I don't think they should be in these new sets. Plus the 5k177 cap that I just received was MX stem. The rest of the caps were Alps.

The OG color scheme is quite nice and I could take pictures of my set if you like. I'd also love to see:

- Pink on Purple
- Orange on Black
- Blue on Pink or vice versa (whichever has the better contrast)
- Anything with teal
- Of course, anything with purple

Ahh, didn't realize that was the original user that made that set.  I will pull it now that I know. 

I will do a few more mock-ups with different colors and post them in the op to get more feedback.  As of right now, I am leaning to the black on orange with JD.  It feels to me like the current "geekhack" set. 

Also, I like the Star key in R1 profile, in addition to the R4.

I would go with ALL CAPS for the GEEK HACK key. And maybe Cherry font for the others just for giggles?

[CPTBadAss]

Ahh, didn't realize that was the original user that made that set.  I will pull it now that I know. 

Just for your own information, here's the website with the original GHSS info. I can't figure out if it was just a website or if 5k177 was a user or if it was a user-run website with a different name. Megarat has a FS thread which has some cool info too.

Also, I like the Star key in R1 profile, in addition to the R4.

I would go with ALL CAPS for the GEEK HACK key. And maybe Cherry font for the others just for giggles?

I think it'd be cool to see all lower case just to see something different. Cherry font would be cool. And I like the star key idea.

[jdcarpe]

I think it'd be cool to see all lower case just to see something different.

Meh, not a fan, personally.


Image credit: Techkeys.us

[Badwrench]

I think the Cherry font would be neat as well, but I wanted to get a gauge from this thread if people want the caps to stand out on more than just the color.  A lot of the older boards have a very similar font to the standard SP font. 

As far as upper or lower case on the "geekhack" keys, I think I will go with the upper after seeing that lower case one.  It doesn't look bad, just not a clean as the standard one. 

[jdcarpe]

I think the Cherry font would be neat as well, but I wanted to get a gauge from this thread if people want the caps to stand out on more than just the color.  A lot of the older boards have a very similar font to the standard SP font. 

Yes, you're right about that. I only suggested Cherry font due to the increased contrast. But I'm good with SP standard.

[Badwrench]

Updated the OP with some different colors 

Anyone else want to add their own?

Link to the template I was using:  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/bb762da76b3c78a8b9f11622c6720f92

[mr.squishy]

Of the new colors, I greatly enjoy the orange one.
Just so you have my input 

[RoflCopter4]

If you could do a set out of nice, thick, dye sublimated PBT then I would throw money at you hand over fist. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps are cheap and plentiful as it is.

[jdcarpe]

If you could do a set out of nice, thick, dye sublimated PBT then I would throw money at you hand over fist. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps are cheap and plentiful as it is.

Because some of us can't stand dyesub PBT. I'd much rather have a nice crisp double shot ABS in DCS profile than that PBT crap.

Double shot ABS with the GEEK HACK legend for Alps are not plentiful. There are about three of those available, if you can find them. And only one set of the G and H keys. That's what this buy is about.

[RoflCopter4]

If you could do a set out of nice, thick, dye sublimated PBT then I would throw money at you hand over fist. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps are cheap and plentiful as it is.

Because some of us can't stand dyesub PBT. I'd much rather have a nice crisp double shot ABS in DCS profile than that PBT crap.

Double shot ABS with the GEEK HACK legend for Alps are not plentiful. There are about three of those available, if you can find them. And only one set of the G and H keys. That's what this buy is about.

I, uh, I don't get it. A keyboard is a tool, not a piece of art. The way it feels to type is orders of magnitude more important than the way it looks. PBT feels better to type on than ABS. I don't understand why anyone would disagree with that, but if you do disagree then there is a huge variety of doubleshot ABS keycaps out there, something not true of PBT keycaps. Where you lose me completely is when you start going on about novelty keycaps. I will never wrap my head around novelty keycaps.

[mr.squishy]

If you could do a set out of nice, thick, dye sublimated PBT then I would throw money at you hand over fist. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. Doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps are cheap and plentiful as it is.

Because some of us can't stand dyesub PBT. I'd much rather have a nice crisp double shot ABS in DCS profile than that PBT crap.

Double shot ABS with the GEEK HACK legend for Alps are not plentiful. There are about three of those available, if you can find them. And only one set of the G and H keys. That's what this buy is about.

I, uh, I don't get it. A keyboard is a tool, not a piece of art. The way it feels to type is orders of magnitude more important than the way it looks. PBT feels better to type on than ABS. I don't understand why anyone would disagree with that, but if you do disagree then there is a huge variety of doubleshot ABS keycaps out there, something not true of PBT keycaps. Where you lose me completely is when you start going on about novelty keycaps. I will never wrap my head around novelty keycaps.

The same reason why Trucks exist. Because some people like things that are different and not exactly useful, but still aesthetically pleasing.

[Badwrench]

I too am not a fan of pbt.  I actually quite like sp double shots in abs, they have a nice crispness to them, especially with a clicky switch.  In addition, I think it would be odd to just have a couple keys on my board (and the vast majority of available alps boards out there) pbt dyesub while the rest are d.s. abs. 

[CPTBadAss]

PBT feels better to type on than ABS. I don't understand why anyone would disagree with that

And that's your opinion. Mine is like JD's. If i could, I'd have all ABS on everything including my IBM boards. In fact, there's a specific set on my SSK because I like how it feels. The caps were used in airport terminals and so they saw heavy usage. They're worn smooth and I love how that smoothness feels. I hate the feeling of PBT and I've sold off all my MX PBT. I'd sell off more in Alps and IBM flavors if I could. But I can't at the moment.

I don't understand why you're so determined to think that your opinion reflects everyone else's. That will never be the case and getting mad about it doesn't convince me otherwise. I don't get many of the things you like but I'm never hounding people to think that what I like is the only thing they should like.

[engicoder]

Where you lose me completely is when you start going on about novelty keycaps. I will never wrap my head around novelty keycaps.

Its like any other product that is more than just what's needed to get the job done most efficiently. Sure we could poo-poo novelty caps, and while we're at it lets all drive smart cars, dress in jump suits, and eat soylent green, because why would we need anything else.?

[RoflCopter4]

Alright, alright, fine, I'll concede that I'm being an ******* and backpedal a bit here. It's fine to prefer ABS over PBT. It's fine to like whatever colour scheme you like, and it's fine to like novelty caps (though I still don't understand them). The only reasonable point I feel I can still make here is to stress the fact that it is, as of now, very easy and very inexpensive to find very high quality, very pretty doubleshot ABS keycaps. The same is just not true for PBT keycaps. There just aren't very many out there. The Apple Extended Keyboard is about the only widely available option, and its keys are a bizarre profile. I wish there could be a push to develop new PBT Alps stem keys, but if nobody actually wants them then so be it I suppose.

[jacobolus]

Sure we could poo-poo novelty caps, and while we're at it lets all drive smart cars, dress in jump suits, and eat soylent green, because why would we need anything else.?

Jumpsuits are often too hot or too cold and not very comfortable, and soylent green is made from ground-up grandma, so I’m not sure about those, but abandoning novelty caps and all driving Smarts sounds like a fine idea to me. Would make life a lot nicer for cyclists and pedestrians, and generally make urban areas a lot more pleasant. Parking lots, super wide streets, freeways, and cars driving >20mph in residential areas are all things I would love to get rid of. Our subway/trolley/train infrastructure is going to need some work though.

[geniekid]

soylent green is made from ground-up grandma

Wait...soylent green is PEOPLE?!

On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.

[CPTBadAss]

On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.

Agreed. Pink or purple go well with that .

[Badwrench]

On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.

Agreed. Pink or purple go well with that .

You mean like this?

[CPTBadAss]

Perfect, I'll fund the GB personally

[sethk_]

I don't have an ALPS board, but if the caps are reasonably priced, I will probably pick up a set for future  ALPS board possibilities. 

[mashby]

Some food for thought...

::: Colorway :::
I know I must sound like a broken record, but Klaxon was a hugely popular group buy. It was the third group buy in that colorway, with Red Alert and Red Alert 2.0 preceding it.  I think if you chose that colorway you'd be making a safe bet.

Personally, I think red would be a popular color for the asian communities since it's a popular color used in many of the custom boards. That could go a long way in bolstering the numbers because there are many proxies in the GH community that would provide large orders.

::: Old School Group Buy :::
It's more work, but I think if you did this as an old school group buy it could be easier to reach the numbers you're looking for. PMKs system is handy, but given the fact that you have to commit the money up front slows down the process.  If you go back and review the original thread for the Klaxon GB, you'll see what I'm talking about. Pricing was clear, up front and interest was able to build as more-and-more orders came in. There was a lot of peer pressure to put in your order so that we'd tip to the next tier.

Granted, it's more work. You're accepting orders from a Google Form and living in spreadsheets. When you're ready to place the order, you then have to issue PayPal invoices and track down people for payment. After the key caps come in, you're then having to ship out everyone's orders. PITA for sure, but I think it would give time for this to build interest and hopefully yield a successful group buy.

[nubbinator]

Klaxon really wouldn't go well with the main Alps caps out there, which are beige and cream, black, and Dolchish.  I know I would run away from Klaxon so quick it's not even funny.

Most of the other suggestions are more subdued and would go great with any of those.  Hell, even toxic would go great with them.

That's just me being outspoken again though since I absolutely hate the Klaxon colorway.

[mashby]

Klaxon really wouldn't go well with the main Alps caps out there, which are beige and cream, black, and Dolchish.  I know I would run away from Klaxon so quick it's not even funny.

Most of the other suggestions are more subdued and would go great with any of those.  Hell, even toxic would go great with them.

That's just me being outspoken again though since I absolutely hate the Klaxon colorway.

Good points, no doubt.

But just to make sure that i'm not missing something in the time that I've been away, but this set isn't supplementing an existing set is it? I was under the impression that this was a complete set, so that fact that it's doesn't go well with the the sets currently out there seems moot.

[Badwrench]

Klaxon really wouldn't go well with the main Alps caps out there, which are beige and cream, black, and Dolchish.  I know I would run away from Klaxon so quick it's not even funny.

Most of the other suggestions are more subdued and would go great with any of those.  Hell, even toxic would go great with them.

That's just me being outspoken again though since I absolutely hate the Klaxon colorway.

Good points, no doubt.

But just to make sure that i'm not missing something in the time that I've been away, but this set isn't supplementing an existing set is it? I was under the impression that this was a complete set, so that fact that it's doesn't go well with the the sets currently out there seems moot.

These are just a mini-pack.  They are meant to add compatability to the Infinity board or to add a pop of color to an existing board similar to how the pack that 5k177 did for the mini-touch.  I don't mind the Klaxon colorway personally, but would prefer to do a color that will brighten up a board. 

[HoffmanMyster]

On topic, we should keep in mind whatever color scheme we choose should go somewhat well with black on beige/grey since this is likely the base color scheme these caps will be used with.

Agreed. Pink or purple go well with that .

You mean like this?
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I would buy multiples of these, unless I ran into some unforeseen financial troubles.   

engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system?  Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested.  I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount.  Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate.  Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win.  With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. 

[mashby]

These are just a mini-pack.  They are meant to add compatability to the Infinity board or to add a pop of color to an existing board similar to how the pack that 5k177 did for the mini-touch.  I don't mind the Klaxon colorway personally, but would prefer to do a color that will brighten up a board.

*facepalm*  Then scratch everything I just said.  )

Think I'll go back and READ the dang OP. 
 

[zombimuncha]

Hi, I'm new here, but you may have noticed me trying to drum up support for the Delta Blues set on r/MK. Pleased to meet you!

Back OT, I guess I would only use the Enter from this set, but I would still buy it just "because". I like either of the blue colours, with a slight preference for the darker one.

A crazy idea occurred to me that it might be possible to talk SP  into doing a buy for a full keyset with a cool colourway with an OPTION of your set being done in Alps mount instead of MX.

[HoffmanMyster]

Hi, I'm new here, but you may have noticed me trying to drum up support for the Delta Blues set of on r/MK. Pleased to meet you!

Back OT, I guess I would only use the Enter from this set, but I would still buy it just "because". I like either of the blue colours, with a slight preference for the darker one.

I'm not OP, but thanks for helping to build support. 

I'm guessing that you're not super interested because it's a geekhack themed set?  Not calling that out as being a problem, just want to understand the reason (legends, colors, caps, etc).  Obviously the intent here is to make a GH set, so that's not likely to change in your favor if it is the deterrent.   

A crazy idea occurred to me that it might be possible to talk SP  into doing a buy for a full keyset with a cool colourway with an OPTION of your set being done in Alps mount instead of MX.

Interesting idea.  It would help with material loading (they would use the same colors for the entire run), but they would still have the problem of changing the tooling out for the two stem types.  I'm not familiar enough with their process to understand which changeover type is a bigger time/money waster for them, but it may be worth bringing up.

[geniekid]

A crazy idea occurred to me that it might be possible to talk SP  into doing a buy for a full keyset with a cool colourway with an OPTION of your set being done in Alps mount instead of MX.

That is a very interesting idea!  They would probably still have some kind of MOQ but it could potentially be quite low.

[zombimuncha]

I'm guessing that you're not super interested because it's a geekhack themed set?  Not calling that out as being a problem, just want to understand the reason (legends, colors, caps, etc).  Obviously the intent here is to make a GH set, so that's not likely to change in your favor if it is the deterrent.   

I currently only use 'proper' keyboards at work, so (1) having the word "geek" all over it is ...ahh... how should I say... drawing attention to stereotypes?, and (2) I want it to be functional - really the only key I aim for when moving my hand from mouse to keyboard is Enter. After that everything else just falls into place naturally. The symmetry of the GH I find kinda cute but is not gonna help me in any way and I think it would look kinda fugly sitting out on it's own like that - can't stand vanity ESC keys etc.
I guess I'd probly use the star for winKey too. Maybe. In any case, count me in, just for the sake of encouraging Alps keyset availability.

I noticed Klaxon / red alert colour scheme mentioned in this thread. While I dig the sh*t of that in general, it's probably not my first choice to go with my black on shiny black Matias Quiet Pro.

[Matias]

Anything I can do to help with this, let me know.

I like the colours on deck BTW.

[mr.squishy]

These are just a mini-pack.  They are meant to add compatability to the Infinity board or to add a pop of color to an existing board similar to how the pack that 5k177 did for the mini-touch.  I don't mind the Klaxon colorway personally, but would prefer to do a color that will brighten up a board.

This. I can't even use 2 of the keys in this set (because apple keyboards are weird) but I still want it for some variety.

[engicoder]

engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system?  Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested.  I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount.  Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate.  Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win.  With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. 

Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.

As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color  in the mix.  (or what ever SP color is closest)

[Badwrench]

engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system?  Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested.  I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount.  Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate.  Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win.  With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. 

Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.

As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color  in the mix.  (or what ever SP color is closest)

That is an interesting way to do the GB.  I have a call in to SP to ask a few questions about doing this pack and will hopefully get some pricing soon as well. 

Closest to Adler colors in my eyes is VAF (done with NN legends to match most boards):


Also did another one for CPT 


And one for Nubbinator (Toxic!):



Also, just throwing this out there.  What are peoples thoughts on just doing an entire Infinity Mod set (with both bottom row options - to make a master kit)?

[nubbinator]

I would buy any of those three.  If it had an Infinity mod set (which I would be on board with), Adler or Toxic would be awesome.

[engicoder]

engicoder, did you have good success with your Massdrop-esque "commit to buy at..." system?  Maybe that could work well here and get some people interested.  I always observed that that was a big hurdle with the old-fashioned buys here (and even on PMK), with people wanting to buy in but only at a lower amount.  Backing out at an expensive tier is a big no-no, so people would sit the GB out and not participate.  Any way to get more people to buy in would be a big win.  With a smaller, simpler set like this I think it wouldn't be too much extra work for you, but maybe that's incorrect. 

Yes, I think it worked very well. A large number of people committed early at high buy in levels that were eventually met. When the deal ended, I gave everyone who had committed at a level that had not been reached a chance to convert to the final price and most did buy in. I don't think my Rad Hard buy would have succeeded without the "commit at" mechanism.

As far as colorway, can I throw the Triump Adler color  in the mix.  (or what ever SP color is closest)

That is an interesting way to do the GB.  I have a call in to SP to ask a few questions about doing this pack and will hopefully get some pricing soon as well. 

Here is a link to the form I used for the Rad Hard buy if your interested in what my "Commit At" system looked like.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HLRgoY0rbM1_A0VDzFAXNhFgkDN9eHRe90X1_cHOcAo/viewform#start=openform

[sethk_]

I like that lilac color a lot.

[HoffmanMyster]

I would buy an Infinity mod set.

And then I would have to buy an Infinity...