Originative Grand Opening!

[keymaster]

Oh boy, I guess no one can make profits off of aftermarket parts for cars, computers, etc. because these are all hobbies. 

what is your point? there is next to no commercial hobbyist keyboard industry in america save a couple of hard-working companies that do not ally themselves with geekhack anymore.

like i said there is practically nothing you can say to me that's going to change my mind about this, and being sarcastic in an earnest conversation with people who have seen this change in geekhack is earning you zero credibility.

Perhaps no one here can change your mind, but you certainly aren't the only one who needs to see things simply as they are: an emerging market is being filled by businessmen. It's the way the world works, bud. It seems you have a problem with capitalism, which, need I remind you, is the dominant economic system in the world.

[sth]

Perhaps no one here can change your mind, but you certainly aren't the only one who needs to see things simply as they are: an emerging market is being filled by businessmen. It's the way the world works, bud. It seems you have a problem with capitalism, which, need I remind you, is the dominant economic system in the world.

what you're saying is that might makes right. this a fledgling hobbyist community; WE get to decide what we want and if you're just going to roll over on your back and let profiteers **** you over for your rich boy toys then that's what you deserve.

[keymaster]

Perhaps no one here can change your mind, but you certainly aren't the only one who needs to see things simply as they are: an emerging market is being filled by businessmen. It's the way the world works, bud. It seems you have a problem with capitalism, which, need I remind you, is the dominant economic system in the world.

what you're saying is that might makes right. this a fledgling hobbyist community; WE get to decide what we want and if you're just going to roll over on your back and let profiteers **** you over for your rich boy toys then that's what you deserve.

It looks like I'd be paying $20 more for a set @ Originative versus a group buy. I much rather pay the $20 premium for an instantaneous purchase and subsequent delivery in a few days time. How many of you would rather wait for weeks or even months at a time during the process of planning, producing, and shipping a set of keys just to save $20?

Sorry, but business is the way the world operates -- and they're not charities.

[sth]

okay, now we're not even talking about the same thing. enjoy your keycaps.

[mashby]

OGs and real deals: keep doin ya thang. keycap nubs: go home. profiteers and capitalists: i have no sympathy for you, let the market gut you for all you're worth.

So as a "keycap nub" who just purchased key caps from you, this is what you think of me?   

I've built and worked with online communities since the days of the Commodore 64 BBS and I really don't understand all the vitriol over someone from within the community starting a new business.

Then again, what do I know, I just a keycap newb who apparently should just delete his account here and go away.

[sth]

OGs and real deals: keep doin ya thang. keycap nubs: go home. profiteers and capitalists: i have no sympathy for you, let the market gut you for all you're worth.

So as a "keycap nub" who just purchased key caps from you, this is what you think of me?   

I've built and worked with online communities since the days of the Commodore 64 BBS and I really don't understand all the vitriol over someone from within the community starting a new business.

Then again, what do I know, I just a keycap newb who apparently should just delete his account here and go away.

uh, nope? sorry you feel that way; you're clearly not who i'm talking about. i love to see new members turn into friends and help build the community. there are a lot of folks who show up, buy a bunch of stuff and then move on to another money-sink too.

believe what you will about my attitude but i don't rip people off for keycaps. i've lost far more money on this hobby than i could ever hope to make back and still retain my conscience.

anyways this is not the place for this discussion and it's gone on too long. if you want to talk about it we can start a thread in OT and i can say all the same **** i've been saying over and over every time this topic comes up.

[guilleguillaume]

[...]

but yet, ragnarok got a pass for adding fees to his group buys.

and then, when he messed up on certain things (like sorting) he cried and people gave him more money.

where were all these people complaining about that?

it was me, lit, and sth constantly complaining. nobody else, everybody stayed quite while he used YOUR(well not specifically yours, but the people that were in his GBs) money to get lower prices and make profit.

profiting off GH happened way before this.

at least this time, sherryton used his own money and took the risk of not even breaking even. because, as stated multiple times, his order was put in way before GH knew of GMK or before there was an IC open.

And that's the reason why I just talked a lot of **** about him but it seems GH demands censorship and when someones tries to screw up people and make profit of them they just say blablabla "threadcrap".

I did complain about him and some other did it too and of course I've never participated in any of his GB. I said sometime ago that if he was thinking about making profit he could have bought all the sets by himself and sell them later (Like Sherryton is doing) but he didn't want to take the risk and decided to manipulate people by organising some GB and saying it was fair and necessary to pay him for his services ( ). After saying that I decided to remain outisde his threads because I knew it would get me banned If I was going to insist in that matter and say my word.

I may not be the kind of guy that posts too much here on GH(At least not lately because of the whole change) and I try not to repeat myself. As english is not my main language I try to evade being inside some fights because I can get lost inside them quite easy so I  usually decide to say my word and stay out of the ****storm.

I'm mostly the kind of guy that saw some stupid things (painted keycaps, Click Clack resellers, items overpriced...) and believed that people would be smart enough for not being trapped by those tricky users. But as seen over the past year, I can't longer trust that the average user here on GH is smart enough for noticing that kind of things. I guess it has to do with the new wave of users (Not everyone) 

By the way I don't say that Sherryton is a bad user and he isn't part of this community. I'm just not happy with the way this big thing has been managed. I read that post whereLysol talked about Sherryton and couldn't imagine something like that was being planned. Something was going on in secret and only some people knew about it and decided not to share. I bought from him and I know he deserves a good treatment but I just don't like eh way this have been handled.

I just don't understand why some people would hide GMK if they weren't part of the business. That is what doesn't make sense. I know there are a lot of things that won't be revealed but can't understand why there is need to hide knowledge from the users, specially when Group Buys are being organised.

Also some of us don't like to buy from Originative just because the way the GB is being organised is better for EU members. We just could get our items shipped inside Europe instead of purchasing them outside and having to pay Shipping+ Custom Fees + Taxes + Item Price. We are paying way more than what is needed and we are paying taxes x 2. It's obviously that USA members are super happy about it because you don't have the same problems as we have.

I read that someone is managing the orders in Korea so I'm wondering why Sherryton didn't think the same for Europe. Not that he have to do that but that would have been great and helpful for every EU member and would have meant more orders and more sales for him.

I don't like Originative to be the new EK what means being a troublemaker for customers outside USA. I appreciat his work and of course is great to have a new vendor with this kind of items for sale. It's just that we're affected in a negative way by this because we see our chances of purchasing ISO vanished.

Also I don't know anything about the prices and how much would have increased the price for him including 1.25 Lshift(ISO) and 1.75 RShift(G80-1800, Korean custom keyboards..). I don't like the RGB kits offered because they can't suit my needs.

I hope I did explain my points well enough.

About keymaster, I won't lose my time replying to him.

[demik]

And that's the reason why I just talked a lot of **** about him but it seems GH demands censorship and when someones tries to screw up people and make profit of them they just say blablabla "threadcrap".

well what do you expect when one of the admins was the one pushing to give him more to "help out"

[mashby]

OGs and real deals: keep doin ya thang. keycap nubs: go home. profiteers and capitalists: i have no sympathy for you, let the market gut you for all you're worth.

So as a "keycap nub" who just purchased key caps from you, this is what you think of me?   

I've built and worked with online communities since the days of the Commodore 64 BBS and I really don't understand all the vitriol over someone from within the community starting a new business.

Then again, what do I know, I just a keycap newb who apparently should just delete his account here and go away.

uh, nope? sorry you feel that way; you're clearly not who i'm talking about. i love to see new members turn into friends and help build the community. there are a lot of folks who show up, buy a bunch of stuff and then move on to another money-sink too.

I didn't think that you truly felt that way, but that's the danger of conversations like this isn't it? Who decides a "true" member of the community?

If the idea of new members who are only here to spend some money and move on, it would seem that having more businesses around would keep that from happening?

I'm admittedly new and I don't know what GH was like back in the day, much less six months ago, but I'd much prefer to engage in conversations with you that engage the community beyond simply purchasing more bits of plastic and metal. Does the presence of a few companies preclude us from that?

[mkawa]

I can't paste tables like I used to be able to with the old vB forum software.  This may help people understand the difference.  Let me know if I missed something or if you have suggestions


(Attachment Link)

fantastic post, lit. forums propagate information, and this summarizes the state of the market nicely. sorry about the lack of paste-in-table support

[dirge]

sherry your sites picked up by our filers at work, potentially damaging content.

[sherryton]

sherry your sites picked up by our filers at work, potentially damaging content.

taking a look at this.

Thanks for the notice, sir!

[sherryton]

Hi everyone,
I have been following the thread closely and reading all your concerns and feel like there are a few things that I should clear up. But first, I would like to thank all the people who contributed (by criticism or by support). It really got me thinking about this community and how it has really evolved and changed. For myself, I was an ordinary user just like everyone else; I participated in conversations, drooled at any sight of ClickClack’s new keys, and F5-ed the crap out of EK when it came time for their new releases. Fortunately, I was able to pursue my passions and love for keyboards and keycaps and was able to come by the means which allowed me to have a small startup which grew which allowed for it to be what it is today. I did these things for my passion and love of keyboards/keycaps first, and for lesser reasons second; and I really hope you guys could see that from how I try to deal with you all despite the backlash I’ve gotten thus far. I hope you guys are as proud of what I’ve been able to provide to you as I am. It was because of you guys that I really knew that I could depend on a community of people who shared the same interests as me. However, as some users have stated, I do operate a business. And the way I go about my business can be none of your business, which does not benefit you in any way. Or, I could be Keycap Claus all year long, showing you guys what’s in store for you right off the presses and arriving at your doorstep faster than you can say Christmahanakwanzika!
With that being said, the reason why I didn’t divulge the information regarding GMK was that I didn’t really want to spoil the surprised that I had in store for you, but it was all rained on and I didn’t know exactly what to do at that point. I might have stepped on some toes and could have handled the situation better, but it is what it is.
ISO/EU keys are not something I can do at this moment in time, BUT there may be a possibility of this coming to fruition somewhere down the line.  If anything, I will work with some GH users so that it will be able to be sorted/shipped in EU better (for that lower shipping cost of course).  Thanks for reading this long-winded post. I really hope that I could continue to provide a product that everyone could enjoy. I really hope you guys could be patient with us as we are still in the stages of getting everything set up and in order.

[dirge]

It's the ISO/EU keys that are the disappointment for me, we'd have had a chance of getting them or had a lookin if the right person was handling it.

It's quite difficult on our side, we have smaller numbers but the impact and contribution from European users has been significant for this community.  I realize your market is ANSI and your intentions are not in any way bad.

But every set you order organize pretty much strikes it off our list as ever having a chance of owning it.  So classic / olivetti and maybe dolch, no idea as I don't think you've confirmed it?

[danielucf]

If GMK would make small numbers of ISO key sets for large orders then it would be more likely that ISO users could be supported. At the moment in most group buys at geekhack only 10-15% need ISO. Is it fair to make every full set include two more keys if that drives the price up by several dollars? Not my call. This however is one reason why SP is awesome to deal with, they will give some cheaper ISO keys on large orders even if the ISO sets do not reach a higher tier for reduced pricing.

[dirge]

Not sure about fair, maybe neglecting the needs of the minority is the fair thing to do? I mean it's not like European members contribute to the community so why help them in return by having a few extra keys in your set for a few bucks?

[hashbaz]

We've been around this circle many times before.  Without concrete numbers it's impossible to make a judgment between including extra keys for a minority of people vs. adding extra cost for the majority.  I think it has to be decided on a case-by-case basis.

[mkawa]

it's not even clear whether GMK has the molds for the keys in question afaik. regardless, i think further requests for ISO keys from originative belongs in originative's forum.

otoh, if you're willing to be active about fixing something that you see as a shortcoming in his offerings by making cool stuff yourself, there are other places to talk about this. (hint: SP's DCS profile is not that far from original cherry, and we know they have the molds and production windows...)

[guilleguillaume]

GMK has the tooling needed as they produce WEY keyboards and caps which have ISO layout 

It's clear enough.

[mkawa]

has -> had

they produced the wey boards quite a while ago, and very few people have a very good inventory of what tooling they are in possession of now. again:

regardless, i think further requests for ISO keys from originative belongs in originative's forum.

[shiverrr]

has -> had

they produced the wey boards quite a while ago, and very few people have a very good inventory of what tooling they are in possession of now. again:

regardless, i think further requests for ISO keys from originative belongs in originative's forum.

I think you're forgetting that GMK is a German company. Does a German company that produce keycaps and keyboards for Europe(most countries in Europe use ISO) and the rest of the world have the tools to create keycaps for ISO layouts? Of course they do.

[pasph]

has -> had

they produced the wey boards quite a while ago, and very few people have a very good inventory of what tooling they are in possession of now. again:

regardless, i think further requests for ISO keys from originative belongs in originative's forum.

I think you're forgetting that GMK is a German company. Does a German company that produce keycaps and keyboards for Europe(most countries in Europe use ISO) and the rest of the world have the tools to create keycaps for ISO layouts? Of course they do.

Also Skidata is ISO.
Really i can't even immagine a German keycaps company that CAN'T produce an ISO layout.
ANSI isn't THE world.

[DanGWanG]

GMK has the molds.  Lysol wouldn't be asking if he didnt alreasy ask GMK

[dirge]

We need a GMK fact and fiction page on the wiki.  Just so everyone's on the same page.

[gilgam]

If GMK would make small numbers of ISO key sets for large orders then it would be more likely that ISO users could be supported. At the moment in most group buys at geekhack only 10-15% need ISO. Is it fair to make every full set include two more keys if that drives the price up by several dollars? Not my call.

Well for some few bucks per set 
But excluding iso users means less sets, more expensive. I'm not the equation is so easy :-)

[jdcarpe]

If GMK would make small numbers of ISO key sets for large orders then it would be more likely that ISO users could be supported. At the moment in most group buys at geekhack only 10-15% need ISO. Is it fair to make every full set include two more keys if that drives the price up by several dollars? Not my call.

Well for some few bucks per set 
But excluding iso users means less sets, more expensive. I'm not the equation is so easy :-)

Your point is valid, but only in a group buy scenario. When someone orders inventory to sell, they are going to order what they can sell many units of, for the best price. No one will order 400 ISO kits, knowing that only 20 will sell. Or the cost per unit to the consumer will be unreasonable and the merchant will sell none.

[dirge]

Well you could bring in others that may not need to shift stock as fast.  Keyboardco stock expensive filco cases, why not replacement filco keycap sets for the regions they also sell boards too?  They don't need a REALLY fast turnaround.  Having product that's limited in supply but the best quality would sell over time.

I mean look at what we've done over cherry caps, supply dries up, $250 for a cap.

[alaricljs]

But inventory costs money above and beyond the initial cost to purchase.  It's very easy to slip into a worse than total loss scenario.

[gh_pp]

sorry to necro this thread.

seems like the mod finally got around to remove originative's forum since sherry is no longer tending to its customer.

to continue my tale, my $160 order last nov is still MIA and my CC denied my dispute because it's outside of the 60 days window

today i had to call cc again to talk to the supervisor to have him personally review the case.

he didn't promise anything but he did reopen it.

next thing i got an email from sherry that my order is shipped.

i'll cancel my dispute once i received my order.

long story short, i know a lot of people still take their chances since originative still carries a lot of unique merchandise and some people did receive their order, but be warned that if you're unlucky prepare to file dispute before your window closes.

originative is really bad with customer service and unorganized with outstanding orders.

[SpAmRaY]

For future reference this thread is still open...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57652.0

[Michael]

Originative Grand Closing.

[dustinhxc]

Originative Grand Closing.

Hue hue hue

[intelli78]

Originative Grand Closing.

soft sorrowful lulz