[GB] Alpine Winter (Shipping Replacements)

[flabbergast]

Can also attest that some alps caps (I don't have these yet) are so tight that instead of removing just the keycap, I removed the whole top part of a matias switch. Fortunately I did manage to straighten out the switchplate and put the switch back together...

[tofgerl]

Yeah, it's a problem. The cross shape of the Cherry stem is so much more suited for replacing caps. Supposedly the key is NOT to wiggle the caps, but to simply pull with an even force - you know, like you absolutely don't feel like doing cause you're sure it's going to break it :|

[sean]

So after some trial and error, I believe I've found a good solution for the extremely tight stems on these things.

It appears that all of the holding force on these caps comes from the four corners of the stem. So I tried removing two of the corners from the equation. I took a sharp utility knife (x-acto knife would probably be easier to use) and cut a relief on the two back corners of the cap. Here's a pic to show what I'm talking about:

Show Image

Now the cap is still held in place by the two front corners, and it provides just enough force to keep the cap snug, much like a well-fitting MX keycap.

If you foresee the need to remove these caps more than once or twice, I strongly recommend making this small modification before installing them. A little bit of extra time will save you a lot of grief later.

I pressed some of the keycaps so hard to try to get them into the slider that the very top parts of the stems started to bend outwardly. The amount of force I put on some of them were a bit risky since I almost broke the stem off my tab key (one of supports are just hanging on but the other three are okay), But for those problem keys I filed down some of the corners and they fit easily. Honestly though once I got them on they are not all that hard to remove. Maybe it's just me but the stock KBP caps were much harder to remove compared to these.

[njbair]

Yeah, it's a problem. The cross shape of the Cherry stem is so much more suited for replacing caps. Supposedly the key is NOT to wiggle the caps, but to simply pull with an even force - you know, like you absolutely don't feel like doing cause you're sure it's going to break it :|

Yes but that's only going to do so much. SP Alps caps, and these ones in particular, seem like they're almost too tight for their own good.

[tofgerl]

And here my plan is to first put them on the AEK2 plated keyboard, and then move them to the Dell plated keyboard once I get some proper AEK2 caps...

Oh well, gingerly gingerly...

[njbair]

And here my plan is to first put them on the AEK2 plated keyboard, and then move them to the Dell plated keyboard once I get some proper AEK2 caps...

Oh well, gingerly gingerly...

Just do the stem mod I posted earlier. They'll be fine and it's pretty easy, if a little time consuming.

[jbondeson]

[...] Maybe I'm just crazy but it appears some of the caps on rows 2 and 3 have varying levels of height. Unfortunately I don't have any good way to photograph what I'm seeing.

You're not crazy. I'm putting on the caps right now and my 'R' is higher than the 'E' and 'T' next to it. It seems to be the cross on the bottom of the cap is higher than the others around it. I'll make a note of all the ones that have this issue and see if it was similar across runs.

edit: Here's a picture (notice the R and Y keys)

[sean]

[...] Maybe I'm just crazy but it appears some of the caps on rows 2 and 3 have varying levels of height. Unfortunately I don't have any good way to photograph what I'm seeing.

You're not crazy. I'm putting on the caps right now and my 'R' is higher than the 'E' and 'T' next to it. It seems to be the cross on the bottom of the cap is higher than the others around it. I'll make a note of all the ones that have this issue and see if it was similar across runs.

This time I took pictures:

Here you can see T is lower than R and Y:


Here is a bottom comparison of T and Y. Y is the closest cap:


As you can see the cross on Y is much taller than the cross on T.

Rows 2 and 3 seem to have varying levels of height to them, but Y, I, A, D, seem to be the tallest and Tab, T are the lowest. I also have one Row 1 blank and one row 2 blank that are shorter than the rest.

Edit: I would like to point out I didn't see your edit before I posted my pictures. I wonder if the same caps are affected on every set?

[njbair]

[...] Maybe I'm just crazy but it appears some of the caps on rows 2 and 3 have varying levels of height. Unfortunately I don't have any good way to photograph what I'm seeing.

You're not crazy. I'm putting on the caps right now and my 'R' is higher than the 'E' and 'T' next to it. It seems to be the cross on the bottom of the cap is higher than the others around it. I'll make a note of all the ones that have this issue and see if it was similar across runs.

This time I took pictures:

Here you can see T is lower than R and Y:

Show Image

Here is a bottom comparison of T and Y. Y is the closest cap:

Show Image

As you can see the cross on Y is much taller than the cross on T.

Rows 2 and 3 seem to have varying levels of height to them, but Y, I, A, D, seem to be the tallest and Tab, T are the lowest. I also have one Row 1 blank and one row 2 blank that are shorter than the rest.

Wow, there's definitely a difference there. I'll have to check my board when I get home. Meanwhile, it would be good if others can share their findings as well.

[harlw]

Just wanted to check on the status of my order when you get time Njbair.

[jbondeson]

Incoming Potato!

[jbondeson]

Double-post GO!

Wow, there's definitely a difference there. I'll have to check my board when I get home. Meanwhile, it would be good if others can share their findings as well.

You may want to reach out to SP as there are a *lot* of keys that are different. In the first set I pulled out the two 1.25 Alps Mountain keys have a different height on them. Looking at the front of the board it basically looks like a roller coaster.

Amazing colors and design, but I think SP totally botched the stems.

[sean]

Double-post GO!

Wow, there's definitely a difference there. I'll have to check my board when I get home. Meanwhile, it would be good if others can share their findings as well.

You may want to reach out to SP as there are a *lot* of keys that are different. In the first set I pulled out the two 1.25 Alps Mountain keys have a different height on them. Looking at the front of the board it basically looks like a roller coaster.

Amazing colors and design, but I think SP totally botched the stems.

Now that you mention it, my left Control cap and right Alt cap are both taller than the rest of the bottom row.

[sean]

Double-post GO!

Wow, there's definitely a difference there. I'll have to check my board when I get home. Meanwhile, it would be good if others can share their findings as well.

You may want to reach out to SP as there are a *lot* of keys that are different. In the first set I pulled out the two 1.25 Alps Mountain keys have a different height on them. Looking at the front of the board it basically looks like a roller coaster.

Amazing colors and design, but I think SP totally botched the stems.

Now that you mention it, my left Control cap and right Alt cap are both taller than the rest of the bottom row.

Oops, I meant to edit but I made a new post

Edit: Here's probably the last picture from me. Low profile shot focused on row 2 which is the worst offender

[Texchappy]

I was hoping that these would be a bit better.  I've got TaiHao dolch on my V60 right now and it's like the big picture book of English smiles!  Didn't notice it with the original keys that came in it.

[...] Maybe I'm just crazy but it appears some of the caps on rows 2 and 3 have varying levels of height. Unfortunately I don't have any good way to photograph what I'm seeing.

You're not crazy. I'm putting on the caps right now and my 'R' is higher than the 'E' and 'T' next to it. It seems to be the cross on the bottom of the cap is higher than the others around it. I'll make a note of all the ones that have this issue and see if it was similar across runs.

edit: Here's a picture (notice the R and Y keys)

Show Image

[geniekid]

This is actually pretty terrible.  Row 1 is good but past that it gets really inconsistent with key profiles.

Compare R to T and G to H.


See V.


Compare Q to W.


Those are some examples.  There are more offenders.

[nathanrosspowell]

[...] Maybe I'm just crazy but it appears some of the caps on rows 2 and 3 have varying levels of height. Unfortunately I don't have any good way to photograph what I'm seeing.

You're not crazy. I'm putting on the caps right now and my 'R' is higher than the 'E' and 'T' next to it. It seems to be the cross on the bottom of the cap is higher than the others around it. I'll make a note of all the ones that have this issue and see if it was similar across runs.

This time I took pictures:

Here you can see T is lower than R and Y:

Show Image

Here is a bottom comparison of T and Y. Y is the closest cap:

Show Image

As you can see the cross on Y is much taller than the cross on T.

Rows 2 and 3 seem to have varying levels of height to them, but Y, I, A, D, seem to be the tallest and Tab, T are the lowest. I also have one Row 1 blank and one row 2 blank that are shorter than the rest.

Wow, there's definitely a difference there. I'll have to check my board when I get home. Meanwhile, it would be good if others can share their findings as well.

Just from the pictures, I can notice it on a few of the keys on your board    at least A, V and N seem to be the incorrect height.

Time for glamour shots!

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Thanks SP  :'(

[njbair]

Well, guys, I don't really know what to say. It's starting to look like this is a consistent issue across sets, which suggests a problem with SP's molds. And it's not like we have any other SP Alps sets to compare them to.

I'm open to suggestions regarding how to handle this. In the meantime, if you have issues please share your photos in the thread. This will help us determine the true nature & extent of the problem. I'll hold off on contacting SP until we have more data.

I guess it can't hurt to keep shipping out sets. If SP ends up replacing caps we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it.

[BlueNalgene]

(Attachment Link)

That left alt is up too far in that picture.  Mine was like that.  Was.  I fiddled with it to try to get it to push down properly onto the switch, breaking it in the process.  Super glue holds it a little higher now.

[nathanrosspowell]

Well, guys, I don't really know what to say. It's starting to look like this is a consistent issue across sets, which suggests a problem with SP's molds. And it's not like we have any other SP Alps sets to compare them to.

I'm open to suggestions regarding how to handle this. In the meantime, if you have issues please share your photos in the thread. This will help us determine the true nature & extent of the problem. I'll hold off on contacting SP until we have more data.

I guess it can't hurt to keep shipping out sets. If SP ends up replacing caps we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it.

I think it's wise to hold off on the contact. Historically they have always corrected mistakes that they made - it will be best to verify the issue and get a few sets of evidence pictures from members. Ideally we identify a subset of the keys which could need replacing.

I also agree to ship them out, never heard of SP recalling their 'defects' and hopefully they don't need to re-run the whole set of keys.

Finally, don't you dare feel back about this njbair, you have been a stand up GB leader and you have battled through a lot to get these sets into peoples hands.    If anything, we are sorry for you that you this mis-molds happened 

[skaloola]

Received this yesterday.

Thanks for doing this group buy.  I really don't know what I was thinking at the time, but I ended up with like 10 spacebars (just 1 base kit).

Something that confused me though is why the spacebars have crucifix (cherry style) stab holes.  I'm still waiting on my matias stabilizers, but I guess thats not a mistake?

Thanks

[njbair]

Received this yesterday.

Thanks for doing this group buy.  I really don't know what I was thinking at the time, but I ended up with like 10 spacebars (just 1 base kit).

Something that confused me though is why the spacebars have crucifix (cherry style) stab holes.  I'm still waiting on my matias stabilizers, but I guess thats not a mistake?

Thanks

The Matias stabs include Cherry clips, so they will work with these caps. However, the stab wires won't match up perfectly so you'll need to do some surgery on those.

I don't have the time, but it would be great if someone could post a guide on making wires that work with Matias stab kits and Alps Party plates.

[sean]

I just hate that njbair is the sole person that has to deal with this hassle. QA must be really low at SP for something like this to slip by...

Something that confused me though is why the spacebars have crucifix (cherry style) stab holes.  I'm still waiting on my matias stabilizers, but I guess thats not a mistake?

That's the way SP does it. While it doesn't make total sense to have cherry stabs they work just fine.

[njbair]

I just hate that njbair is the sole person that has to deal with this hassle. QA must be really low at SP for something like this to slip by...

Regarding QA, don't forget this is the first set of Alps alphas SP has produced for the community. Who knows how long that tooling has been idle? There's just a lot that's unknown right now, but one thing I'm confident about is that SP will make this right. They always do.

[jbondeson]

On my first set I have at least one key in every row that's different height, but the 1.25u's are definitely affected as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if several of the other modifier sizes were similarly impacted.

I definitely don't want this to be the last alps keycap gb, so we definitely want to work with them to get the issue fixed! 

[E3E]

I just hate that njbair is the sole person that has to deal with this hassle. QA must be really low at SP for something like this to slip by...

Regarding QA, don't forget this is the first set of Alps alphas SP has produced for the community. Who knows how long that tooling has been idle? There's just a lot that's unknown right now, but one thing I'm confident about is that SP will make this right. They always do.

Oh my. This is going to be very interesting. I didn't think a mistake would happen again! Yeah, no fault on SP though; they're pretty stand up folks!

[E3E]

I just hate that njbair is the sole person that has to deal with this hassle. QA must be really low at SP for something like this to slip by...

Something that confused me though is why the spacebars have crucifix (cherry style) stab holes.  I'm still waiting on my matias stabilizers, but I guess thats not a mistake?

That's the way SP does it. While it doesn't make total sense to have cherry stabs they work just fine.

Some old Alps boards use the inverse cruciform mount as well (and costar), so it's not just SP. Tai Hao has done this, notably for their space bars.

In fact, this is the very reason why building an Alps Duck Eagle with LeandreN's universal plate was even feasible for me, because I was able to use the SP modifier pack on the Cherry stabs!

Granted, I did have to stem swap for the space bar, but yeah.

[geniekid]

I just hate that njbair is the sole person that has to deal with this hassle. QA must be really low at SP for something like this to slip by...

Yea that sucks.

(Attachment Link)

That left alt is up too far in that picture.  Mine was like that.  Was.  I fiddled with it to try to get it to push down properly onto the switch, breaking it in the process.  Super glue holds it a little higher now.

Lol )

[digi]

If the majority of the sets have issues, SP shouldn't make you ship anything back. This is 100% on them to make right. Thanks for all your work NJ!

[braidn]

Lots of errors in my set, but glad we are on it. If there is anything that I can do to help the process along, just ask. Thanks NJ!

[JimByr]

Kit received and I'll check them later today. Many thanks for the design and the hard work.

[sean]

Lots of errors in my set, but glad we are on it. If there is anything that I can do to help the process along, just ask. Thanks NJ!

A big thing you can do for njbair is to take pictures so he has evidence to show SP. Any picture that shows a height between two or more keys will be helpful. Also if you can note what specific keys/rows are problematic, that would be helpful.

[E3E]

Lots of errors in my set, but glad we are on it. If there is anything that I can do to help the process along, just ask. Thanks NJ!

A big thing you can do for njbair is to take pictures so he has evidence to show SP. Any picture that shows a height between two or more keys will be helpful. Also if you can note what specific keys/rows are problematic, that would be helpful.

This.

Please, anyone who has errors, do report this to SP! take photographic proof so that NJ can show it to SP and have them realize that this isn't just a small 1-2 batch issue.

As someone who's ordered a lot of blanks and kept adding more to my orders, I'm likely going to be one of the last batches shipped, so I won't get mine for some time. I'll be sure to take pictures of any errors!

[nickheller]

Got my stuff in today, thanks njbair! I am getting ready to get them put on my infinity! Also won one of the Dolly sets!

[nickheller]

Sadly my spacebar is a bit rough, so my wire will need some tweaking or some lubing, or something.

bubble wrap cause i have not put in a case yet


Also, these things fit tight! lol. I had to pull a few and felt like i was ripping the switches out

[digi]

I have a feeling most, if not all sets will be consistently malformed caps..

[njbair]

I have a feeling most, if not all sets will be consistently malformed caps..

It only makes sense that they would be the same. Injection molding is pretty repeatable. I imagine the issue is that SP didn't realize the height of the cross braces was a critical dimension.

[skullydazed]

It only makes sense that they would be the same. Injection molding is pretty repeatable. I imagine the issue is that SP didn't realize the height of the cross braces was a critical dimension.

If we're placing bets my guess is that they have 2 different alps mounts and one machine had the wrong mold used. I know in my grab bags I sometimes run across MX stems that are strange heights.

[taropaste]

Something that confused me though is why the spacebars have crucifix (cherry style) stab holes.  I'm still waiting on my matias stabilizers, but I guess thats not a mistake?

The Matias stabs include Cherry clips, so they will work with these caps. However, the stab wires won't match up perfectly so you'll need to do some surgery on those.

Sorry for my noob question about this. I have a v60 and all of keys with stabilizers seem to have Matias clips? Only the spacebar has the Cherry clips. So I need to buy Cherry clips somewhere?


I'm also including some photos of the different heights on my keys. To be honest, I think I can live with this. Matias switches are pretty wobbly anyway. Once I got most of the caps on I couldn't notice the height difference as much.

E, R, Y keys are higher. So is the F.

O is lower.

The set does look really nice. I'm happy to have custom caps for my Alps boards! Thanks so much for all your hard work njbair! 

[Muffinbottoms]

WOOOHH!! They're in! 

I was also one of the lucky winners of the Dolly sets haha. Pretty funny because I've literally have never won a raffle in my 22 years. I'll take more pics tomorrow when I have better lighting and I don't have to study for a midterm :/

Also is there anyway to check the form we filled out? I think I got an ISO set by accident, but I just wanna make sure it was my error and I'm not holding back an international person (Actually that probably means I didn't win the Dolly set HAHAHA)

Thanks again for the great set njbair! Even in the bags they look beautiful 

[njbair]

WOOOHH!! They're in! 

I was also one of the lucky winners of the Dolly sets haha. Pretty funny because I've literally have never won a raffle in my 22 years. I'll take more pics tomorrow when I have better lighting and I don't have to study for a midterm :/

Also is there anyway to check the form we filled out? I think I got an ISO set by accident, but I just wanna make sure it was my error and I'm not holding back an international person (Actually that probably means I didn't win the Dolly set HAHAHA)

Thanks again for the great set njbair! Even in the bags they look beautiful 
(Attachment Link)

Everyone gets ISO keys. The only add-ons were spacebar kits and novelties. But if you are unsure what you ordered PM me and I'll double check it for you.

[braidn]

Sadly my spacebar is a bit rough, so my wire will need some tweaking or some lubing, or something.

Interesting to see how you change the spacebar stab wire Nick!

[Hypersphere]

Just returned from business travel and found that my Alpine Winter set had arrived. They look great. This weekend I will install them on an Alps-switch board and try then out. Thanks!

[HoffmanMyster]

It only makes sense that they would be the same. Injection molding is pretty repeatable. I imagine the issue is that SP didn't realize the height of the cross braces was a critical dimension.

If we're placing bets my guess is that they have 2 different alps mounts and one machine had the wrong mold used. I know in my grab bags I sometimes run across MX stems that are strange heights.

That's my thought.  And if they haven't been used in ~20 years, it would be really easy to mix that up.  I know we've been hating on SP lately, but I feel bad for this mistake.  :-/  They revive old tooling to give us something we really want, only to have this happen and now they will likely pay for it.

[Hak Foo]

I got mine today, and I'll join the circle-hate.

One problem with DCS caps, regardless of mount, is that they don't have a very tall skirt.  You can see the gaps underneath the cap far more prominently than with, say, Tai Hao's ALPS caps or indeed most OEM caps.  This gives you the floating-keycap effect, even if you don't want it.

[digi]

Got mine today, thanks NJBair Unfortunately mine have the same issues as everyone else.

What did you guys use for stab wire? The wire that came in the Matias set is just about unusable for every cap position except for the space bar (Dell AT101 layout).

[E3E]

I got mine today, and I'll join the circle-hate.

One problem with DCS caps, regardless of mount, is that they don't have a very tall skirt.  You can see the gaps underneath the cap far more prominently than with, say, Tai Hao's ALPS caps or indeed most OEM caps.  This gives you the floating-keycap effect, even if you don't want it.

Show Image

Yeah, the floating key effect indeed. Kind of neat, kind of not.

OG Alps profile caps are definitely my favorite, but hey, Tai Hao has crazy MQO. We don't have many options!

Despite this though, I think Alpine Winter looks fantastic, and I can't wait to get my set, aaand see how things will be remedied by SP regarding the height issues with the stems.

[digi]

The colorway looks great btw NJ, the light gray with the blue is 2legit2quit

[spanyam]

This is a beautiful set. Is this same GB planned any time in the future?

[E3E]

This is a beautiful set. Is this same GB planned any time in the future?

If there ever is a round 2, I wouldn't mind running it to take the load off of nj the next time! 

I think the problem, like any Alps cap buy, is ensuring that there is enough interest to reach the MQO we want. Not to be impulsive here, haha. I would love to help though as I think Round 2 cap buys are sorely needed in some cases.