There should be more 80%s with a numpad instead of the nav cluster and arrow keys. You would get access to all the keys on a full size with the press of NumLock.

Kohaku is a mid board, pretty weight but that's about it to me... I also don't enjoy 65% layouts so I guess that's probably part of the cause as well

Have to agree, never got all the hype around it. The Jaguar is a far more striking board from the same designer yet seems to garner less attention. All due respect, the Kohaku is borderline uninspired to me. From an aesthetics POV, even the simplest seamed two-piece wedge design seems more appealing. The back is cool and all, but that's about it.

... I also don't enjoy 65% layouts so I guess that's probably part of the cause as well

My true 60% Alice has really done wonders for me with left space bar also held down to get to layer 2, my numpad layer.  Y,U,I=7,8,9, - H,J,K=4,5,6, - B,N,M=1,2,3 - right space = 0 - Right Alt = "." etc...

The Alice split creates enough separation where I don't need to be a particular muscle memory wizard to figure it all out.

I also have an HHKB, so using "?" as down arrow, "[" us up arrow, with Fn key, etc... is already second nature for me.

Some of the artisans is really overrated, especially the OG ones.

I feel that a good keyboard should be able to feel good and sound good as is. For the longest time, this consists of the case, plate, PCB. Then you add switches and keycaps. The fact that some companies include foams imo feels like they're saying that their board isn't good enough as is, therefore the need for foams to aid and improve the typing experience. The fact that some kits include force break mod stickers already makes me think that the manufacturer admits to some extent that their product is subpar. Though I understand many companies mass produce at cheaper cost and time constraints.

Similarly, if users have to drastically mod their keyboards (foam, tape, force break, etc) to make them content of sound and feel, then I would not think their boards are good enough.

Kohaku is a mid board, pretty weight but that's about it to me... I also don't enjoy 65% layouts so I guess that's probably part of the cause as well

I've never tried one but i don't really care to try it either. maybe if i see one at a meetup or something but I'm not going out of my way to experience it

I disagree, because "good" is an entirely subjective notion.
[/quote]

Some people actively choose MX Browns or Blues.

I also only use full size boards which are often looked at as an ugly duckling. Also the only metal in my work board is the steel plate as the top and bottom case are plastic and the switches have sound dampening gaskets. Those are a lot of attributes that a lot of users would not want.

Quote from: G on Fri, 29 March 2024, 00:20:10

There should be more 80%s with a numpad instead of the nav cluster and arrow keys. You would get access to all the keys on a full size with the press of NumLock.

This is objectively correct, though I allow 96%. Like, guys, seriously. ANSI mod an AT and you're done. We don't need this TKL bull****.

Not the biggest fan of tkl but can't lie and say that it isn't bull**** or anything like that. Some people don't want to deal with layers and tkl provides immediate support to pretty much all keys with the press of a button.

That being said the AT layout is much better.

I disagree, because "good" is an entirely subjective notion.

Some people actively choose MX Browns or Blues.

I also only use full size boards which are often looked at as an ugly duckling. Also the only metal in my work board is the steel plate as the top and bottom case are plastic and the switches have sound dampening gaskets. Those are a lot of attributes that a lot of users would not want.
[/quote]

What I find extremely strange about the community is that almost all of us have been typing on full size rubber dome keyboards just less than 10 years ago, be it for school, work or whatever reasons. Suddenly when the hobby expanded during/after the pandemic, everyone starts sh*tting on full size 100% keyboards and say how miserable they are typing on them. Like seriously, were people really that miserable in front of their computers in the past?

Right before I joined the hobby I have been typing on a full size office keyboard too. Though I appreciate and rotate with smaller layouts, I find no problem using full size keyboards as well. I got IBM Model Ms, full size Topres and I am also ordering a full size Fossil by Carolina Mech

I'm a full size keyboard guy as well. Used them all my life (since I first started using computers back in 1981), and so my muscle memory expects a nav cluster and a numpad. Without them I feel like a limb is missing. I think the move away from full size keyboards in the mech board community stems from the fact that today's generation is more used to using mobile devices and expects their keyboards to be mobile too. That means small and light.

Personally, I can only stand to use small keyboards with my iPad, as a substitute for typing on glass, which I hate. In that scenario, I don't want anything larger than 60% or 65% because the iPad itself is small and I don't it dwarfed by the keyboard. But for my main driver, which is attached to a Dell tower PC, I want all the keys. I have a few TKLs but I always pair them up with a separate numpad, effectively turning them into full size boards.

I kinda hate that I am a dinosaur to this hobby, and that my full size keyboard choices are so limited because of that.

I think that split space (space on left, backspace on right), should be standard on larger boards. I’m biased by 40s, but why is backspace so far away nowadays? It’s 2u vertically and like 1.5–2u away horizontally with your fingers on the homerow on a standard board, and you’re using your weakest finger for it. Most typists aren’t 100% percent accurate so backspace is going to be used quite frequently. Makes the most sense to have it right next to your space key and using the strongest digit on your hand.

Also no reason for caps lock to be on a 1.75u key. It’s not useful enough to warrant that large of a key.

I think that split space (space on left, backspace on right), should be standard on larger boards. I’m biased by 40s, but why is backspace so far away nowadays? It’s 2u vertically and like 1.5–2u away horizontally with your fingers on the homerow on a standard board, and you’re using your weakest finger for it. Most typists aren’t 100% percent accurate so backspace is going to be used quite frequently. Makes the most sense to have it right next to your space key and using the strongest digit on your hand.

Also no reason for caps lock to be on a 1.75u key. It’s not useful enough to warrant that large of a key.

These are all good and popular choices, according to my brain. Am I biased? Absolutely.

Quote from: _rubik on Wed, 17 April 2024, 10:43:56

It almost feels like those who learned to type / use computers extensively in the height of the Model M era (when the fullsize became standardized and relentlessly copied) will have the most trouble switching between layouts.

You are probably right about that. Though honestly, this idea of frequently switching between layouts is another point of disconnect for me.

99% of my typing happens at my desktop PC. Why would I need to switch layouts? And why would I want anything smaller than full size? My desk is not so small that I need an inch or two taken away from the keyboard to make room for something else. My mouse has plenty of space to the side of my full size keyboard(s) as it is, what possible benefit is there to taking useful keys away?

It must be a matter of lifestyle differences. I can't relate to the folks who need a mech keyboard with them wherever they go (and where they go provides very little space to set up for typing), and they probably can't relate to someone like me who does all of his typing on a desktop PC in one fixed location (at home or at work), where working space is plentiful.

Something to unpack maybe is the difference between forced layout changes and voluntary layout changes. I rarely switch my _external_ keyboard layout, but am involuntarily forced to swap layouts multiple times a day (phone keyboard, laptop keyboard, desktop keyboard). There's some implicit flexibility in that. Thinking about a time where few folks used laptops, phones we're just a dial pad, and almost all computing was done on a standard full-size, you'd only ever swapped voluntarily.

As for your point about traveling with your keyboard. I agree I used to never travel with a keyboard, but then I gave 40%s a try. At that point it was both important that I bring it with me (I so don't have to involuntarily switch as often) and I was _able_ to for the first time ever. That said, I have co-workers who would never consider swapping layouts principally because they want to minimize the involuntary layout swaps.

I kind of think about it like "people who distro-hop" and "people who run different operation systems at work and home". They both get some form of flexibility though only one party actively exercises it.

And why would I want anything smaller than full size? My desk is not so small that I need an inch or two taken away from the keyboard to make room for something else. My mouse has plenty of space to the side of my full size keyboard(s) as it is, what possible benefit is there to taking useful keys away?

My mouse arm gets tired