The controller on mine has a bug or two. Sometimes the CAPS LOCK light stays on even after CAPS LOCK is deactivated; toggling CAPS LOCK again clears the light. Sometimes the controller thinks the Shift key is stuck down when it's not; tapping the Shift key again clears it. I get one of these glitches every few minutes on an Advantage USB built in 2011.
Everything else is already great... please don't change too much ;D
Really interested in the next version of Contoured keyboard - do you have a rough idea when you might introduce it?
Please share any thoughts and ideas of what you would like to see for the next version of Contoured keyboard.I want a keyboard more or less like the Kinesis Advantage except flat with Cherry Red switches and works on PS/2.
Please share any thoughts and ideas of what you would like to see for the next version of Contoured keyboard.I want a keyboard more or less like the Kinesis Advantage except flat with Cherry Red switches and works on PS/2.
You could add some extra keys to the middle too if u wanted.
You could add some extra keys to the thumb area too if u wanted.
It does not hurt to have some spare extra keys on the keyboard that the user can define as desired.
If you would have allowed me to buy a flat Kinesis Advantage with Cherry Red switches that works on PS/2 I would have already bought 3 of them a few months ago.
Instead I am being forced to spend thousands of $$$ on all sorts of different keyboards.
I have no problem with the pricing of your current Kinesis Advantage.
And your return policy is super duper nice.
But I honestly just don't think that crazy keywell shape is for me. I have severe horrifically bad handpain problems but I have never ever craved or wanted a keyboard shaped like that.
I especially do not want to be tempted to lay my wrist on that high point of the keyboard. That is incredibly unhealthy and directly causes RSI, Tendonitis, CTS and other horrible problems. I like my normal flat cherry red keyboards. There is no temptation to lay my wrist on anything.
Also I don't think my soft crashpads would work in the crazy shaped kinesis advantage. I need a flat keyboard for that.
I need a keyboard that lets me SHIFT with my thumbs.
I would not mind SHIFTing with my feet from time to time.
If I bought a Kinesis I am sure I would buy the super deluxe version with everything.
I could have bought a Kinesis Advantage "for the hell of it". "Just to give it a try." And to show my support of your company because it seems like u r at least trying. (which is a lot more than I can say for most keyboard companies) But I really really really do not think it will work out for me.
For the time being I am being forced to buy WASD keyboards or Filcos because they let me buy a flat keyboard compatible with crashpads, compatible with PS/2 with Red switches.
I am researching different substances to glue on top of my keycaps to have a healthier, softer, less violent, less painful keyboard experience. But I don't have much useful to report on that other than 10A rubber is way too hard.
I do not require Red switches. I would rather have a switch more intelligently designed than Red. Its not so hard to do if you have money. But among these simplistic, primitive antiergonomic switch choices presented by Cherry, Alps and Matias, Cherry Red wins. But a better switch could be 100x better.
Whatever new keyboard you come out with, if it is rigged to not work on PS/2 then I won't buy it.
Thanks for the input TotalChaos. I would say you should try a Contoured keyboard before making some of those conclusions. Lots of research has gone into our design and it's stood the test of time (20 years), so although it looks crazy it's very effective.I think about buying one and trying it all the time.
natas206 is, of course, the expert here, but I believe the kinesis contoured refers to the advantage (with keywells). The kinesis does use special keycaps, to more naturally fit the hand, but people have experimented with replacing them with "normal" ones from a kit (like from WASDkeyboards) with some success.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=23446.msg477340#msg477340
Also as the pads age I assume they use their squishiness. Since the pads would now be glued into place I can no longer replace them by themselves, I would have to throw away the whole keycap. Unless you have some clever solution?
Does Kinesis Advantage use special keycaps? If so how much does it cost for me to buy replacements?
Also I just noticed you said "Contoured" in your message. Maybe we are each talking about a different keyboard?
Yes that too, once I pick out 100% which material I Like best and how thick it should be.Also as the pads age I assume they use their squishiness. Since the pads would now be glued into place I can no longer replace them by themselves, I would have to throw away the whole keycap. Unless you have some clever solution?
You plan to glue pads on top of the keycaps?
Why not use o-rings, 40A o-rings from wasdkeyboards are superb,For a healthy person they should keep you healthy for a long time I hope.
but if you want something really squishy and soft you can try black soft-landing pads from elite keyboards. Like o-rings these go UNDER the keycaps (between keycap and switch).Yes but they just kind of lay there. They don't attach onto the keycap like an O-ring does. Thus the need for gluing.
I have not ruled them out. I just ruled them downwards to a lower priority. :) For the reasons I gave.QuoteAlso I just noticed you said "Contoured" in your message. Maybe we are each talking about a different keyboard?
Contoured are all those Kinesis keyboards that have the curvy keywells (which you ought to try before ruling them out by the way).
These keyboards have had various model variations over the years, with names like Essential, Classic, Advantage, etc, but all of them are "contoured".
NKRO.
How many keys do you honestly need to hold down at the same time, and what keys are they? The keyboard can handle 6 keys plus modifiers (ctrl/alt/shift) so I'm trying to understand what is the scenario that needs more than 8-9 keys ??I play various rhythm games which require pressing more than 6 non-modifier keys at once.
While "endless free retro games require more than 6KRO" is an gross exaggerationI just meant that there are more of them than you will ever play in your lifetime. There may only be 300 of them, I don't know the exact number. I haven't played them all and I never will. Out of 40,000 retro games a finite number of them have multiple simultaneous players on the keyboard option.
(let's not forget most keyboards are not even 6KRO but 2KRO)You are saying Commodore 64s had 2kro keyboards? And they just used some sort of trick?
I agree that supporting NKRO with a passive PS/2 adapter like Filco and other keyboards do would be great.Yes. It is the only intelligent solution.
Note that the typical NKRO test that is advertised all over the Internet (hold-down-both-shifts-and-type-the-quick-brown-fox-jumps-over-the-lazy-dog) passes fine with 6KRO... most people, including the average gamer and even some keyboard companies, consider anything over 2KRO to be NKRO.Is someone selling a 3kro keyboard and advertising it as NKRO?
I am skeptical about NKRO over USB because it is associated with one ore more of these issues:This is why USB 1.1 was obsolete since 1990 as far as keyboards and mice are concerned. Maybe USB 1.1 was great for cameras and MP3 players but not for keyboards.
- Problems with OSX or Linux
- Ugly hacks like the keyboard presenting itself like 3 devices to the computer
- Issues with KVMs
- Issues with USB v1 ports
- Special drivers needed
So unless ALL of the above issues are 100% absent, I would prefer 6KRO (with NKRO via PS/2 adapter) rather than NKRO over USBThe only workable way to get NKRO over USB is to throw USB 1.1 in the garbage where it belongs since 1990 and use USB 3.0, or at least USB2.0.
A non-gaming keyboard should not sacrifice universal compatibility for an extreme gaming feature.An NKRO keyboard has no drawbacks.
I think 18-KRO over USB like Leopold and other keyboards do,Doesn't it represent itself as more than 1 keyboard? How does it get 18kro over USB 1.1?
... there is NO WAY you will need to hold down more than 18 keys simultaneously, even with 2 players playing an extreme music game on the same keyboard simultaneously :-)Just so u know.... there are old games that let 3 ppl play on keyboard simultaneously. :)
1. the arrow keys - can we please have a set of "real" arrow keys that can be operated by one hand?1 - with the reprogrammability of the board i moved the bracket keys over to the left, and have all 4 cursors clustered on the right, i was even able to swap caps to support this. I set it up in the vim style < v ^ > but that doesn't feel as natural without the index finger on down, so i may swap it to ^ v < > in the future.
2. optionally, an onboard modifier key to switch the keypad on momentarily so that it can be used as arrow keys
Make it in topre switches and you can ask for more.I don't find Topre switches to be particularly ergonomic. They make my hands ache after I have used them for a long time. If you want rubber dome, consider the ErgoMatic - a rubber dome, licensed Maltron clone.
Hi. I've been on various Kinesis Advantage (a white PS/2, now two Black USBs (one for home, one for office)) keyboards since 1997. I'm a programmer, and I work at a software shop. There are at least a hundred Kinesis Advantage keyboards there. I *strongly* suggest looking at programmers quite seriously. First, we're not nearly as price sensitive as others. You can make a programmer-specific Advantage for $100 more and most of us wouldn't bat an eye. (if you feel you have to sell that, just refer to http://xkcd.com/1205/ ). Second, there are a *lot* of us, and we often run out of computer stuff to buy, but still have a certain joy in buying more random computer stuff.
The first, and most ridiculous weakness of the keyboard is the rubber top row. Please, move the keys PrintScr - Progrm to the center, and give us real Esc and Function keys. The Esc key is _critical_ (ref: vim), and the Function keys are as important as the lesser-used punctuation on the primary keyboard.
Second is the lack of a pointing device. The reason that this is so important is the amount of desk space that the advantage takes up. Programmers don't need anything fancy here, but we have to use the web like everyone else. A trackpoint between (and slightly below) the thumb clusters would be ideal. Consider pluggable modules for a trackpoint or track-pad. Again, for us, money's really not the problem.
Third is the layout. I've already covered the top rubber row. But, the arrow keys and brackets are in an awful place. I think you should move the arrow keys into a proper cluster of four to the right of the status lights (and above the right control key). The brackets should move to the top row, next to F12 (assuming you'd follow my advice on the top row).
For the new Esc/F1-F12, trackpoint, and moved arrow/brackets, I'd hand you $500 in cash without hesitation.
Make it in topre switches and you can ask for more.
... The Esc key is _critical_ (ref: vim), and the Function keys are as important as the lesser-used punctuation on the primary keyboard.
... I've already covered the top rubber row. But, the arrow keys and brackets are in an awful place. I think you should move the arrow keys into a proper cluster of four to the right of the status lights (and above the right control key). The brackets should move to the top row, next to F12 (assuming you'd follow my advice on the top row).
...
I failed to mention that a few added keys to the Kinesis is a 100% WIN! There are a couple threads on GH where up to 6 keys are added (available on the Kinesis matrix). And, as an added bonus a couple of the added keys can be added as the now-famous 'palm keys' aiding in RSI.
There are at least a hundred Kinesis Advantage keyboards there. I *strongly* suggest looking at programmers quite seriously.
The first, and most ridiculous weakness of the keyboard is the rubber top row. Please, move the keys PrintScr - Progrm to the center, and give us real Esc and Function keys. The Esc key is _critical_ (ref: vim), and the Function keys are as important as the lesser-used punctuation on the primary keyboard.
Second is the lack of a pointing device. The reason that this is so important is the amount of desk space that the advantage takes up. Programmers don't need anything fancy here, but we have to use the web like everyone else. A trackpoint between (and slightly below) the thumb clusters would be ideal. Consider pluggable modules for a trackpoint or track-pad. Again, for us, money's really not the problem.
Third is the layout. I've already covered the top rubber row. But, the arrow keys and brackets are in an awful place. I think you should move the arrow keys into a proper cluster of four to the right of the status lights (and above the right control key). The brackets should move to the top row, next to F12 (assuming you'd follow my advice on the top row).
Given that the keyboard is set to a specific width anyway (as it should, to account for the shoulders), the extra space in the middle is begging for something useful: a trackpad or trackball or the like.
Myself, I'd just put a middle click button there for rapid access to linux paste.
Please share any thoughts and ideas of what you would like to see for the next version of Contoured keyboard.
I would like to see an option for Bluetooth connectivity (with Windows, Mac/iOS, and Android compatibility) - could be similar to how KBTalking does their bluetoothInterestingly enough, kinesis did used to use doubleshot keycaps. I, however, would like to see some PBT for better durability.
I would like to see function key row with real keys and key switches.
Highest quality keycap material would be nice; doubleshots if that will make it any nicer.
Above all, I would like an option to buy a Kinesis Advantage with numpad designed in between the two halves.
13. Reduced price
- I'm pretty sure that the difference between the current Pro and the regular models in an additional $1 memory chip, a $0.50 toggle switch, and a different colour top case (and perhaps also a slightly different firmware). I'm not sure if the Pro significantly subsidizes the price of the regular model at this time, but I know that both models are prohibitively expensive for myself and others. I lucked out and got a like-new Kinesis Essential (a roughly 10 year old board, I think) for about 1/3 retail of a new board, otherwise I probably couldn't have bought it. I understand how retail works and that you guys need to make a profit in order to keep making these things, which we all want, but bringing the price for a basic model down from about $300 to $200 would make it immensely more accessible.
15. Dual bluetooth/USB functionalityNot a bad idea. Many Kinesis users use the keyboard in the lap.
I also keep my eye on Nexus/ErgoGP. Whichever is better gets my money.
When is the new Advantage model coming out?
I've been using Kinesis keyboards for over a decade. I'm using 3 right now, and have many more older models too. It's great to hear you're working on an updated model! It's probably far too late for my suggestions to be relevant, but here they are anyway:
- I miss the old doubleshot keycaps. The smooth feel of the 8 home keys on the old doubleshots is especially missed.
- Use a full sized escape key and function keys.
- Add an Fn key to the left thumbpad. On Macs this would provide access to media keys and the other stuff they put on their Function keys, and it'd also provide access to the embedded keypad.
- Dvorak only keycaps, Colemak keycaps, blank keycaps, more color options, etc.
- Colemak support built in, as you already have for Dvorak. I use Dvorak myself, but Colemak is likely to be more popular than Dvorak in the future.
- Minimize the total height of keyboard to improve arm ergonomics (horizontal forearm). This probably means you can't increase tenting.
- Move thumb keys closer to the key wells if possible, so furthest row of thumb keys are easier to reach.
- Lower key travel to make it feel more like a laptop keyboard, just because that's what the current generation are used to.
- Bluetooth wireless if you can get decent battery life.
- Kinesis keyboards are loud. O-rings help, but perhaps the inside should be filled with foam or something.
- Minimize changes to key layout, so existing users can adapt to the new keyboard quickly.
I've been using Kinesis keyboards for over a decade. I'm using 3 right now, and have many more older models too. It's great to hear you're working on an updated model! It's probably far too late for my suggestions to be relevant, but here they are anyway:
- I miss the old doubleshot keycaps. The smooth feel of the 8 home keys on the old doubleshots is especially missed.
- Use a full sized escape key and function keys.
- Add an Fn key to the left thumbpad. On Macs this would provide access to media keys and the other stuff they put on their Function keys, and it'd also provide access to the embedded keypad.
- Dvorak only keycaps, Colemak keycaps, blank keycaps, more color options, etc.
- Colemak support built in, as you already have for Dvorak. I use Dvorak myself, but Colemak is likely to be more popular than Dvorak in the future.
- Minimize the total height of keyboard to improve arm ergonomics (horizontal forearm). This probably means you can't increase tenting.
- Move thumb keys closer to the key wells if possible, so furthest row of thumb keys are easier to reach.
- Lower key travel to make it feel more like a laptop keyboard, just because that's what the current generation are used to.
- Bluetooth wireless if you can get decent battery life.
- Kinesis keyboards are loud. O-rings help, but perhaps the inside should be filled with foam or something.
- Minimize changes to key layout, so existing users can adapt to the new keyboard quickly.
Shhhh ... don't say things like shorter travel. Management pick up on those things and they may toy with the idea of cutting costs further by switching to ML switches or something. There is a linear red (not my thing) option for those so inclined.
I would love to see one of the older Kinesis to see how the build quality has changed. The keycaps that came with mine truly and truly suck and the whole package generally feels 'cheap'. Which having spent a fortune out of pocket I must say I expected something better. Little things, like those odious shiny steel pozidrives which could easily be replaced by pleasant anodised black hex sockets.
We won't be going away from Cherry keyswitches.
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The only thing that hasn't improved over the years are the keycaps. We used to use double-shot caps made by Signature plastic. Back when the keyboard was $700 or so in the early-mid 90's. In order to get the keyboard more affordable one of the changes were the keycaps. Double shot keycaps are nice but typically a lot more expensive. If we can find an affordable manufacturer of double shot keycaps, we'll use them. If not, the current keycaps are not bad as they are pretty standard ABS keycaps. Some people can wear them faster over time than others but we always send replacement keycaps directly to customers if they contact us.
We won't be going away from Cherry keyswitches.
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The only thing that hasn't improved over the years are the keycaps. We used to use double-shot caps made by Signature plastic. Back when the keyboard was $700 or so in the early-mid 90's. In order to get the keyboard more affordable one of the changes were the keycaps. Double shot keycaps are nice but typically a lot more expensive. If we can find an affordable manufacturer of double shot keycaps, we'll use them. If not, the current keycaps are not bad as they are pretty standard ABS keycaps. Some people can wear them faster over time than others but we always send replacement keycaps directly to customers if they contact us.
I cannot get my head around how a commercially produced product cannot source/stock/mold inhouse a better set of keycaps, even if at an upgrade ...
... but anyways ... any chance of getting a sneak preview of the next iteration?
Quote... but anyways ... any chance of getting a sneak preview of the next iteration?
Soon!
our keyboards have 10 different size keycaps, which some factories simply cannot do or the tooling cost too much
Keycaps relegandable and transparent (even the boddy-part) and RGB-backlight would of course have the most use - if you print the legend in 3 colors on black plasicfoil, you can get enlightend every layer-legend one by a time, depending of the choosen layer (have to get the information of modifier status of course)
Modifier keys should be in the thumb clusters. Moreover the thumb clusters should not have the big (1x2) keys. There should be two standard 1x1 keys instead of each big key (like Maltron). This allows to add Win modifiers and proper layer shifting keys to thumbs.
I bet new Kinesis won't be too different from previous model. Internal changes (new controller, programmability) - yes, major external changes - no.
There's too much history and time-proofing behind existing construction.
Correct - it's unlikely we'll have any major external changes, at least initially.Well, if you at least fix the firmware to support layers properly and add at least two easily accessible* pairs of modifiers (Win keys and LayerShift) then, in my opinion, it is worth considering an upgrade from the current Kinesis Advantage. Bonus points for an option to replace firmware with something open.
I experimented a bit with one size keycaps for the alpha/numeric keys and the bottom row keycaps probably need to have different shapes (arrow keys, etc.).Right. The missing tilt of the bottom row was the reason I did not get ergodox at the end. I probably would not mind missing tilt of all the other keys in a key well. But I think I would mind if the bottom row was not tilted. I tried to put DSA keycaps on the bottom row of my kinesis and it was OK ... except the pinkie key. I did mind the missing bit of tilt there. But the key wells are already curved. Just tilt the bottom row a bit more and it would do even with DSA. Though that may be more expensive than just using the most common DCS shapes.
I used a Advantage Kinesis for a few months, and then sold it. I am no longer drinking the Kinesis Kool-Aid.
I have 2 huge beefs with the keyboard.
1. The function row is rubber
The main issue here is Esc is used a lot and those rubber buttons suck.
2. The key layout is compromised
It changed too much such as moving the = button to where ` is suppose to be. I saw the advantage of getting used to the matrix layout and found it easier to type, but moving buttons is highly annoying.
You ran into the problem where the matrix layout made the keyboard asymmetric with way more keys on the right side. This is why you moved the =, [, ], \ keys. This move was too much.
Also I am a programmer and found it way harder to hit key combinations such as Shift+Alt+M. Hitting alt was more awkward than before.
Given these issues, I think a better layout would be:Show Image(http://i42.tinypic.com/14y4808.png)
I know that is a pretty big change, but it would make me try Kinesis again.
What about print screen, scroll lock, and page break? I couldn't care less. I never use them. EVER.
-Switching of left- and right-hand side via foot switch. I often work using my left hand for the keyboard and the right hand for the mouse. If a right-hand key is needed, it is a bit annoying moving the mouse hand to the keyboard. This could be prevented by triggering that key via the left hand after electronically switching sides.Do you mean like a Matias Half keyboard (http://matias.ca/halfkeyboard/)?
Do you mean like a Matias Half keyboard (http://matias.ca/halfkeyboard/)?
I'm really curious to see what they've done. If they're rid of the hideous rubber keys I'll sell mine and buy a new one.
Yea, but who'll buy it? Everyone will be getting the new board!That kind of assumes that the new keyboard will be better than the old one.
Yea, but who'll buy it? Everyone will be getting the new board!That kind of assumes that the new keyboard will be better than the old one.
The old model should still have a price of used keycaps and switches.
I can imagine ergodox users going for the keycaps.
So it's only a matter of price :)
While you're thinking about broadening your market, I recommend modernizing your website. [/li][/list]
Will be fun to see how the new models improve from the already awesome product that Kinesis already has successfully managed all these years.
Heard rumors of backlighting, I'm wondering if the RGB Cherry switch may be incorporated. The Cherry site says exclusive to Corsair, but that may be because Corsair is a mass-market item.
While you're thinking about broadening your market, I recommend modernizing your website. [/li][/list]
Better late then never! http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/
Will be fun to see how the new models improve from the already awesome product that Kinesis already has successfully managed all these years.
Heard rumors of backlighting, I'm wondering if the RGB Cherry switch may be incorporated. The Cherry site says exclusive to Corsair, but that may be because Corsair is a mass-market item.
From my understanding there is a 1-year lead time on the RGB Cherry key switches :(
Will be fun to see how the new models improve from the already awesome product that Kinesis already has successfully managed all these years.
Heard rumors of backlighting, I'm wondering if the RGB Cherry switch may be incorporated. The Cherry site says exclusive to Corsair, but that may be because Corsair is a mass-market item.
From my understanding there is a 1-year lead time on the RGB Cherry key switches :(
While you're thinking about broadening your market, I recommend modernizing your website. [/li][/list]
Better late then never! http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/
My suggestion is a model that is as quiet as possible.How about bolting the key wells to the upper case with rubber O-rings? I believe a lot of the noise from a keyboard with Cherry MX switches is transmitted through the plate/keywell to the case.
Would be neat to have a clear plastic caseNo no no.. Apple's early '00s keyboards that were transparent get quite disgusting after a while because you can see all the crud and dust that has fallen into the keyboard. Also, any scratches on the surface are much more visible on transparent plastic than opaque.
Also please keep the option open of ordering one without memory. I have to order them without memory for my office.For security reasons?
Also please keep the option open of ordering one without memory. I have to order them without memory for my office.For security reasons?
It's probably too late, but anyway... I've been using the KB500USB-BLK for a few days and here are some of my complaints:
(...)
I like the ergodox a lot, lots of potential there. But talking about ergonomics, I prefer the kinesis a lot more.Same here. Both kinesis and ergodox are lacking. But kinesis is somewhat better. So I'm still using my old Advantage keyboard. I too consider thumb cluster to be far away on ergodox. And I mind a lot that the bottom row is not tilted. I probably could do with other rows not being tilted.
I started a bastard child of the two. That would be the ideal keyboard for me. Maybe I'll have it done by the end of the year. Or not. It depends on how much free time I will have.
Here is my idea how a proper keywell and thumb cluster should look like:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43362.msg1198610#msg1198610
The contoured keywell (and the whole case) should be printable by a dirt cheap reprap 3dPrinter of your friend next door :)
I like the ergodox a lot, lots of potential there. But talking about ergonomics, I prefer the kinesis a lot more.Same here. Both kinesis and ergodox are lacking. But kinesis is somewhat better. So I'm still using my old Advantage keyboard. I too consider thumb cluster to be far away on ergodox. And I mind a lot that the bottom row is not tilted. I probably could do with other rows not being tilted.
I started a bastard child of the two. That would be the ideal keyboard for me. Maybe I'll have it done by the end of the year. Or not. It depends on how much free time I will have.
Here is my idea how a proper keywell and thumb cluster should look like:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43362.msg1198610#msg1198610
The contoured keywell (and the whole case) should be printable by a dirt cheap reprap 3dPrinter of your friend next door :)
Sorry for the lack of update guys, we are still going forward...currently working on some kinks in the firmware. I'll keep you updated when I can.
Probably much too late for input at this point, but I just want to add a voice for support of Colemak.
You know you can remap all your keys on the Kinesis, right? and also create an additional layerBut if one needs to retain a more traditional layout option, e.g., QWERTY, for workplace compliance, one would be up a creek. The current firmware supports easy switching between QWERTY and Dvorak, but not between QWERTY and a custom remap.
But if one needs to retain a more traditional layout option, e.g., QWERTY, for workplace compliance, one would be up a creek. The current firmware supports easy switching between QWERTY and Dvorak, but not between QWERTY and a custom remap.
I like the ergodox a lot, lots of potential there. But talking about ergonomics, I prefer the kinesis a lot more.Same here. Both kinesis and ergodox are lacking. But kinesis is somewhat better. So I'm still using my old Advantage keyboard. I too consider thumb cluster to be far away on ergodox. And I mind a lot that the bottom row is not tilted. I probably could do with other rows not being tilted.
I started a bastard child of the two. That would be the ideal keyboard for me. Maybe I'll have it done by the end of the year. Or not. It depends on how much free time I will have.
Here is my idea how a proper keywell and thumb cluster should look like:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43362.msg1198610#msg1198610
The contoured keywell (and the whole case) should be printable by a dirt cheap reprap 3dPrinter of your friend next door :)
Here is my idea how a proper keywell and thumb cluster should look like:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43362.msg1198610#msg1198610
The contoured keywell (and the whole case) should be printable by a dirt cheap reprap 3dPrinter of your friend next door :)
Any update? Thanks!
Here is my idea how a proper keywell and thumb cluster should look like:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43362.msg1198610#msg1198610
The contoured keywell (and the whole case) should be printable by a dirt cheap reprap 3dPrinter of your friend next door :)
Any update? Thanks!
The case moved a bit on, but I'll need to redo a part of it since I was talked into connecting left and right hand side with a cable which can be disconnected (8 pin RJ45 (Ethernet) jack, but only 6 pins will be used). Originally, I planned 13 wire connection which could not be disconnected. ETA is still sometimes at the end of this year (if I will not lose interest).
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43362.msg1299124#msg1299124
Warning: It will be a bit harder to build (will require more skills) than ErgoDox.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57559.msg1310989#msg1310989
But if should not be much more expensive if you have a friend with well calibrated RepRap FDM printer.
PS: I was curious where Kinesis vendor forum disappeared. Looks like this thread is here but it is not dedicated to any particular vendor any more.
While I'm biding my time waiting for a split Advantage, I'm considering the Ergodox buy that's going on right now. I'm not sure I'm up to soldering all of those parts, though; my soldering skills are pretty terrible.
Why not have it assembled for you?
Why not have it assembled for you?
They seem to have removed the pre-assembled options for this buy (assuming it normally exists on the order page), so it looks like self-service or find-your-own-assembler are the ways to go. Not the end of the world; maybe it will give me an opportunity to improve my skills.
That cheeky bastard put Z in the second layer. Smart.wat.
That keycap set looks pretty much like Czech QWERTZ.
That keycap set looks pretty much like Czech QWERTZ.
Yes, the keycaps are from a scrapped Czecho-Slovak QWERTZ keyboard.
Do not care about keycap markings. A modified chrisandreae's firmware will be loaded there. The layout can be defined whatever you like at the firmware load time and later remapped on the fly.
Status: Electronics is designed and checked on a breadboard. Cases are almost designed (some mounting points for PCBs/LCD/cabling are still missing inside the cases). ETA is still sometimes by the end of this year (if I will not lose interest).
Sorry for the lack of update guys, we are still going forward...currently working on some kinks in the firmware. I'll keep you updated when I can.
It will certainly be interesting to see what updates Kinesis will have come up with, what they didn't do, and if anything takes a step backwards…..
They will have backlighting, but I don't' know how extensive it will be..
For me best thing I ever did was the palm keys. Did you try that yet?
EDIT: on second thought maybe convincing Kinesis to make the LF was the best thing I did. Tough call. Palm keys was the most fun for sure.
For me best thing I ever did was the palm keys. Did you try that yet?
EDIT: on second thought maybe convincing Kinesis to make the LF was the best thing I did. Tough call. Palm keys was the most fun for sure.
Palm keys? Mind explaining me what that is?
Here's a sample:Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26579.0;attach=3392;image)Show Image(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26579.0;attach=3388;image)
Can anyone tell me what happened to the "Post your Kinesis Keyboards" thread?It disappeared with the Kinesis, Unicomp and other subforums, because of inactivity.
I really dislike the way the mods on this forum disappear stuff. It’s fine to ax subforums, but the threads should all be moved somewhere else (maybe somewhere for “archived threads from deleted subforums”)
You could have posted to them while they existed to keep them alive :D
But it's too late now.
Folks please mention your concerns here, in a thread about the vanishing vendor forums:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57664.0
When are they updating the advantage? I am curious.
When are they updating the advantage? I am curious.
Still a work in process. Wish I had news for everyone but there were some delays and also other products we've been working on launching first. Beta testing should start within 1-3 months (some of you are on the list :thumb:). Which likely pushes the release date to early 2015.
By the way, if anyone is interested, Kinesis is currently having a sale on refurbished Advantage keyboards for $215. They come with the same 2 year warranty & 60-day money back guarantee. http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac-refurbished/
When are they updating the advantage? I am curious.
Still a work in process. Wish I had news for everyone but there were some delays and also other products we've been working on launching first. Beta testing should start within 1-3 months (some of you are on the list :thumb:). Which likely pushes the release date to early 2015.
By the way, if anyone is interested, Kinesis is currently having a sale on refurbished Advantage keyboards for $215. They come with the same 2 year warranty & 60-day money back guarantee. http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac-refurbished/
May I join the beta testing? My advantage I've been using for a year with my magic trackpad (clicky!) mount modification to prove my worthiness. :)
I used dashgrip and cut a piece of plastic to hold the trackpad so I can still use the clicky feet of the trackpad. Purposefully place near to the left side so my left hand can reach it without stretching out too much. Changed thumb cluster top keys to flat keys to make more room for the trackpad.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JV3FBsz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jimji1o.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RZzYMoE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WhZxtT1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/S7M2BCl.jpg)
album: http://imgur.com/a/IL8ve
I think Kinesis has been bombarded with every possible request for free beta testing boards, I guess it comes with the territory.
Although I don't specifically know how Kinesis is administering the program, often beta testing involves different groups of people testing different aspects. It can be very specialized, as it should be. That's the idea behind test beds.
I think Kinesis has been bombarded with every possible request for free beta testing boards, I guess it comes with the territory.
Although I don't specifically know how Kinesis is administering the program, often beta testing involves different groups of people testing different aspects. It can be very specialized, as it should be. That's the idea behind test beds.
I didn't mean it to be free, I would gladly pay double the price for beta testing their new advantage :thumb:
kaltar, the single tall thumb key are SA, the other keys DSA, the flat keys are also from signature plastic.
Is Maltron getting extra sales thanks to the pink or gold edition?
When are they updating the advantage? I am curious.
Still a work in process. Wish I had news for everyone but there were some delays and also other products we've been working on launching first. Beta testing should start within 1-3 months (some of you are on the list :thumb:). Which likely pushes the release date to early 2015.
By the way, if anyone is interested, Kinesis is currently having a sale on refurbished Advantage keyboards for $215. They come with the same 2 year warranty & 60-day money back guarantee. http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac-refurbished/
May I join the beta testing? My advantage I've been using for a year with my magic trackpad (clicky!) mount modification to prove my worthiness. :)
I used dashgrip and cut a piece of plastic to hold the trackpad so I can still use the clicky feet of the trackpad. Purposefully place near to the left side so my left hand can reach it without stretching out too much. Changed thumb cluster top keys to flat keys to make more room for the trackpad.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JV3FBsz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jimji1o.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RZzYMoE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WhZxtT1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/S7M2BCl.jpg)
album: http://imgur.com/a/IL8ve
I've often wondered, more now than ever, if Kinesis is missing the boat by not having a different theory of an "upgraded model". Something much different than the Advantage Pro, which really is no different than an Advantage but looks great with an iMac due to the silver/black motif. What if they made an additional model, a limited run, super-upgraded version of the Contoured Advantage?
PBT or equal keycaps
Increased programmability (this is coming soon)
Backlighting (this is coming soon)
Addressing the rubber keys (tough solution)
Color styling options
Better foam wrist pads
REALLY DELUX THIS KEYBOARD!
Granted I did some of these mods and others have done the others, but I'm guessing if they made a highly upgraded model with a very modest price bump, it would be a sales tool to get even more attention and sales interest.
I've often wondered, more now than ever, if Kinesis is missing the boat by not having a different theory of an "upgraded model". Something much different than the Advantage Pro, which really is no different than an Advantage but looks great with an iMac due to the silver/black motif. What if they made an additional model, a limited run, super-upgraded version of the Contoured Advantage?
PBT or equal keycaps
Increased programmability (this is coming soon)
Backlighting (this is coming soon)
Addressing the rubber keys (tough solution)
Color styling options
Better foam wrist pads
REALLY DELUX THIS KEYBOARD!
Granted I did some of these mods and others have done the others, but I'm guessing if they made a highly upgraded model with a very modest price bump, it would be a sales tool to get even more attention and sales interest.
This is something we'd like to do. Revamp the Advantage Pro so that it's not just an upgraded Advantage, but many of the things you stated.
BTW, Rubber function rows will be a thing of the past!
... and more keys?+1
Nice to hear you are addressing #4 of my suggestions (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36195.msg774124.msg#774124)
Any comment on the rest, such as increased tenting angle and more keys?
I've often wondered, more now than ever, if Kinesis is missing the boat by not having a different theory of an "upgraded model". Something much different than the Advantage Pro, which really is no different than an Advantage but looks great with an iMac due to the silver/black motif. What if they made an additional model, a limited run, super-upgraded version of the Contoured Advantage?
PBT or equal keycaps
Increased programmability (this is coming soon)
Backlighting (this is coming soon)
Addressing the rubber keys (tough solution)
Color styling options
Better foam wrist pads
REALLY DELUX THIS KEYBOARD!
Granted I did some of these mods and others have done the others, but I'm guessing if they made a highly upgraded model with a very modest price bump, it would be a sales tool to get even more attention and sales interest.
This is something we'd like to do. Revamp the Advantage Pro so that it's not just an upgraded Advantage, but many of the things you stated.
BTW, Rubber function rows will be a thing of the past!
No more rubberzz?
Yea, I don't need no protection, that's how I roll :)
I hope they heed MY #1 suggestion and paint dat ting BRIGHT RED!ROFL, I like that!
I hope they heed MY #1 suggestion and paint dat ting BRIGHT RED!ROFL, I like that!
I hope they heed MY #1 suggestion and paint dat ting BRIGHT RED!ROFL, I like that!
I kne, right? I'm my sig, the Split Kinesis article (that's still borked, but I have links to pics thanks to CptBadAss) has a pic of a red board and a black board with red home keys (that's mine).
Yay, a real FN row! Other than that?
1. A trackball. Please, please, a trackball.
2. Other switch options. MX Clears?
3. PBT keycaps - at least as an option - maybe this could be one of the distinguishing factors between the new Advantage and the new Advantage Pro.
Better than Cherry clears or anything Cherry makes:
Matias switches!
Better than Cherry clears or anything Cherry makes:
Matias switches!
Heh, and almost no way to get replacement keycaps?
I think we're more likely to see Perl 7 before we get a new Advantage.
It's a beauty! is it a prototype of the up comming new version??? (would buy it with in a heart beat)
When are they updating the advantage? I am curious.
Still a work in process. Wish I had news for everyone but there were some delays and also other products we've been working on launching first. Beta testing should start within 1-3 months (some of you are on the list :thumb:). Which likely pushes the release date to early 2015.
By the way, if anyone is interested, Kinesis is currently having a sale on refurbished Advantage keyboards for $215. They come with the same 2 year warranty & 60-day money back guarantee. http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac-refurbished/
May I join the beta testing? My advantage I've been using for a year with my magic trackpad (clicky!) mount modification to prove my worthiness. :)
I used dashgrip and cut a piece of plastic to hold the trackpad so I can still use the clicky feet of the trackpad. Purposefully place near to the left side so my left hand can reach it without stretching out too much. Changed thumb cluster top keys to flat keys to make more room for the trackpad.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JV3FBsz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jimji1o.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RZzYMoE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WhZxtT1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/S7M2BCl.jpg)
album: http://imgur.com/a/IL8ve
My advantage I've been using for a year with my magic trackpad (clicky!) mount modification to prove my worthiness. :)(http://i.imgur.com/JV3FBsz.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/RZzYMoE.jpg)
I used dashgrip and cut a piece of plastic to hold the trackpad so I can still use the clicky feet of the trackpad. Purposefully place near to the left side so my left hand can reach it without stretching out too much. Changed thumb cluster top keys to flat keys to make more room for the trackpad.
Any update on the likely release date for this? Id like to get a column-aligned keyboard, and I think the kinesis would be most suitable for me. Still, I don't want to invest in one and have a new improved model released the next day (or even month!).
Re improvements: maybe a lower profile, and some sound damping or stiffening to make it quieter.
I prefer a single-piece keyboard for convenience and a tidy desk, and that would keep costs down too I guess.
Hi! Sorry for the lack of updates. We had a few hurdles with the new firmware that we finally solved, so we've made tremendous amount of progress just in the past few weeks alone. We are getting closer! Still no ETA though, but beta testing should start soon.
May I join the beta testing? My advantage I've been using for a year with my magic trackpad (clicky!) mount modification to prove my worthiness. :)
I used dashgrip and cut a piece of plastic to hold the trackpad so I can still use the clicky feet of the trackpad. Purposefully place near to the left side so my left hand can reach it without stretching out too much. Changed thumb cluster top keys to flat keys to make more room for the trackpad.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JV3FBsz.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/jimji1o.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/RZzYMoE.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WhZxtT1.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/S7M2BCl.jpg)
album: http://imgur.com/a/IL8ve
I'm another waiting on feedback on the new release. I recently have my Advantage die on me and something I'd really like is more substantial function keys... And well, after seeing this thread, I'm not go order one until further news on a refresh of this keyboard.
As for the updates... sorry guys still tight lipped for now. As pnutster pointed out, we're hoping to start beta testing soon (within 1-3 months).When you do, see what happens when you hold down seven keys at once. ;)
Oh, good to hear it's getting close to release.
Does anyone know if this new keyboard has bluetooth, or if it's easy to mod the old one to have bluetooth?
As for the updates... sorry guys still tight lipped for now. As pnutster pointed out, we're hoping to start beta testing soon (within 1-3 months).When you do, see what happens when you hold down seven keys at once. ;)
I'm working on a replacement controller for the old Kinesis that does bluetooth. It is probably still a few months away, but it is coming.
That sounds great. I take it that it's not straightforward to add bluetooth to the Advantage then?
The pcb will allow for adding extra switches and I plan to add a trackball and/or trackpoint, among other things.
I expect [...] Rubber F-keys replaced with Cherry ML switchesWhy do you expect that? Why would they use ML instead of MX? They’re not really pressed for space.
R.I.P.
(Attachment Link)
Spock was the bestest
Do you see the new Kinesis coming out in 3-4 months from now? I know you can't give any ETA, but hopefully you are able to say if it is going to happen within 3-4 months or not...
As I think I expressed previously, bring me a mechanical, grid, contoured keyboard with true split and sufficient modifier keys and you can name your price.Kayty keyboard. (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-key80-contoured-split-t8524.html#p222016)
an adjustable thumb cluster is crucial to ergonomicsYou are probably right. Thumb cluster was the main reason I started Katy. Otherwise I would just stick with Kinesis Advantage.
an adjustable thumb cluster is crucial to ergonomicsYou are probably right. Thumb cluster was the main reason I started Katy. Otherwise I would just stick with Kinesis Advantage.
As far as I know, it is ideal for me as it is now :)
Tempted to get the 25% off on Massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kinesis-advantage?mode=guest_open (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kinesis-advantage?mode=guest_open) if it weren't for the fact that the new Kinesis Advantage is looming around the corner.
Do you see the new Kinesis coming out in 3-4 months from now? I know you can't give any ETA, but hopefully you are able to say if it is going to happen within 3-4 months or not...
I can say confidently the new version will not be available within 3-4 months. I am sorry it's taken so long. We had a number of setbacks that delayed progress and I really thought at the time we would have had a new version by now, but things happen.
Maybe get rid of the non mechanical keys and add a trackpoint?+1 for both of the above.
Tempted to get the 25% off on Massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kinesis-advantage?mode=guest_open (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kinesis-advantage?mode=guest_open) if it weren't for the fact that the new Kinesis Advantage is looming around the corner.It seems that that drop is over and right now 145 users are requesting a new one for a target of 200. Perhaps the new drop can target the new item? Is there any projected MRP cost for the new model and how much it will cost on a drop?
Maybe get rid of the non mechanical keys and add a trackpoint?+1 for both of the above.
I guess lots of people dislike the non-mechanical F keys on the Advantage. It's like a blot on an otherwise well-thought out device, and basically the one big thing that's preventing me from going for an item right now. Especially when doing sequences like Ctrl+Alt+Fx it's going to be weird hitting a non-mechanical key just for that last keystroke.
Also, the big space in the middle of the two wells seems an ideal place for a touchpad (I never got the hang of trackpoints). You can move the LEDs (with a bit more separate please) to the top above the touchpad, and place the Kinesis/Advantage logos to the left and right of the thumb areas.
Edit: On second (or actually third!) thoughts, looking at other posts, it seems a trackball is possibly more useful than a touchpad (especially when navigating to distant areas of the screen)...
Tempted to get the 25% off on Massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kinesis-advantage?mode=guest_open (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kinesis-advantage?mode=guest_open) if it weren't for the fact that the new Kinesis Advantage is looming around the corner.hmmm
Also, the big space in the middle of the two wells seems an ideal place for a touchpad (I never got the hang of trackpoints).
I can say confidently the new version will not be available within 3-4 months. I am sorry it's taken so long. We had a number of setbacks that delayed progress and I really thought at the time we would have had a new version by now, but things happen.
Is this new version looking more like 2016? Debating if I want to wait at all.No, you do not want to wait. Almost nothing is on time. I would say the only difference is when a company announces something which is already made and stocked. But in such a case the expected release is always at most a month or two in the future. So if something is announced in a longer time frame then consider it vaporware.
the overall design of the keyboard is going to be pretty much the same.
Noooo. Split it in half. Make two halves.I disagree. Let them release what they have done or almost have done. Otherwise we risk feature creep and a keyboard which is never going to be released since features are being added late in the cycle. Better a good keyboard but available now than a perfect keyboard which does not exist.
Noooo. Split it in half. Make two halves.I disagree. Let them release what they have done or almost have done. Otherwise we risk feature creep and a keyboard which is never going to be released since features are being added late in the cycle. Better a good keyboard but available now than a perfect keyboard which does not exist.
Kinesis can make new versions which add more features (like e.g. a split keyboard) later when they release what is almost ready.
If you need split kinesis like keyboard so much then search this site. There are posts about how people did split their Kinesis Contoured keyboards (e.g. bluecar5556, and I think InputNirvana (or sordna?) did it too).
There are also new projects about how to build a split contoured keyboard:
- Katy (K80CS) (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-key80-contoured-split-t8524.html)
- rsheldiii's keyboard (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71263.0)
- dactyl cave (https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-cave/)
Thanks for your patience everyone, we are really close!
Just so you know what to expect, the overall design of the keyboard is going to be pretty much the same. What will be changed is all of the electronics. As some of you know, our current Advantage keyboard have experienced some compatibility issues (mainly the Windows 7 USB 3.0 problem). Our main focus has been redesigning the electronics from the ground up to resolve all of these issues and eliminate some of the old bugs (stuck modifier for example, as well as add some really cool new features. There were a few delays on the way but we are very close now.
Thanks for your response. Most work done on the electronics and software side. On the hardware side I already learnt that you'd replace the rubber dome F-keys with Cherry ML. Is that still the case?
Thanks for your response. Most work done on the electronics and software side. On the hardware side I already learnt that you'd replace the rubber dome F-keys with Cherry ML. Is that still the case?
AFAIK natas206 has not announced (at least on this thread) that they are going to replace the F keys as requested. He only said they have upgraded the electronics, and key caps are not electronics. It would make for more cost too...
The advantage has always been good for modifications, I hope the new version will keep it in mind - how about selling kits for palm keys and the like?
Thanks for your response. Most work done on the electronics and software side. On the hardware side I already learnt that you'd replace the rubber dome F-keys with Cherry ML. Is that still the case?
AFAIK natas206 has not announced (at least on this thread) that they are going to replace the F keys as requested. He only said they have upgraded the electronics, and key caps are not electronics. It would make for more cost too...
a few post back he said "BTW, Rubber function rows will be a thing of the past!", so at least there was an intention to change them at some point
A split version could come at a later date
You're right I haven't announced anything but it's definitely the plan to replace the rubber f-keys.That's good!
Also, it's not just bug fixes here we completely re-designed the electronics from the ground up, so it's not like changing the firmware or tweaking a couple things; it's been a complete redesign. With this new design comes new features that weren't possible on the older models (really cool features).
Can you give details on at least some of those "really cool features"?Some were already announced:
I would be a big fan of being able to remap the firmware by means of software rather than built in reprogrammability.I expect remapping using a PC application will be there in addition to the original on-the-fly remap/macro. On-the-fly remap is cool when you want to make a new layer with just a few keys changed to test an idea.
You're right I haven't announced anything but it's definitely the plan to replace the rubber f-keys.That's good!QuoteAlso, it's not just bug fixes here we completely re-designed the electronics from the ground up, so it's not like changing the firmware or tweaking a couple things; it's been a complete redesign. With this new design comes new features that weren't possible on the older models (really cool features).
Can you give details on at least some of those "really cool features"?
And what is the projected retail price?
@natas206: Great to know about the Cherry F keys!
Did I miss anything or haven't you yet posted the ETA? And I noticed you diplomatically haven't yet outed the price... ;-)
Cherry ML confirmed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h13oU0r4hOk), it seems.Is this the new advantage?
Seems to be chances to upgrade old Advantage with new ML-switches are high.
QuoteSeems to be chances to upgrade old Advantage with new ML-switches are high.
In a year or two? But only if you're lucky. Veeeeery lucky^^
Cherry ML confirmed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h13oU0r4hOk), it seems.
Removing "=s", "=p", "=m", "=c" special chords is a god-sent present for any programmer.
Imagine how bad it is when you do not release = key quickly enough while typing expressions and the result is a switch of your keyboard to a different mode!
I've been waiting since late 2014 for the new keyboard. At that time, a Kinesis representative said the new Advantage was scheduled for 2015 Q1. Now it's Q4. That's fine and I understand these things happen. However, had I known, I would have bought an old Advantage end of 2014. So now my question, can you give *any* rough estimate? Say "first half of 2016" or "second half of 2016" or something?
@chamcham: You know you can always remap your existing keys to produce these characters using your OS's keyboard layout configuration right?
I used to always swap "Ctrl" and "Caps Lock" with "normal" keyboards, but I ceased the practice once I switched to the Kinesis. Since the modifier keys are activated by the thumbs, it was less necessary.You can swap CapsLock with Escape now :)
The new changes, from what I've read so far, seem good. I'll still wait to see if there are any quality issues with the initial run before upgrading.
One potential problem I see is accidentally switching modes with the f-keys. However, since I'll remap some of those elsewhere (1qaz, embedded layer), it may not be a problem. Does anyone know of anything that might actually be a step backward with the new design?
Whatever Kinesis does, I hope the Advantage always keeps the ability to have a custom layout on locked-down corporate computers, without having to install software on them.
You can swap CapsLock with Escape now :)
Blank keycaps (preferably PBT) is all I require. Otherwise, it is pretty much perfect for my needs. ;)PBT! PBT! PBT! PBT!
Dude give it a break.Blank keycaps (preferably PBT) is all I require. Otherwise, it is pretty much perfect for my needs. ;)PBT! PBT! PBT! PBT!
I've been waiting since late 2014 for the new keyboard. At that time, a Kinesis representative said the new Advantage was scheduled for 2015 Q1. Now it's Q4. That's fine and I understand these things happen. However, had I known, I would have bought an old Advantage end of 2014. So now my question, can you give *any* rough estimate? Say "first half of 2016" or "second half of 2016" or something?
I've been waiting since late 2014 for the new keyboard. At that time, a Kinesis representative said the new Advantage was scheduled for 2015 Q1. Now it's Q4. That's fine and I understand these things happen. However, had I known, I would have bought an old Advantage end of 2014. So now my question, can you give *any* rough estimate? Say "first half of 2016" or "second half of 2016" or something?
I can say confidently the new keyboard will be released before Half Life 3. Hopefully. :/
I've been waiting since late 2014 for the new keyboard. At that time, a Kinesis representative said the new Advantage was scheduled for 2015 Q1. Now it's Q4. That's fine and I understand these things happen. However, had I known, I would have bought an old Advantage end of 2014. So now my question, can you give *any* rough estimate? Say "first half of 2016" or "second half of 2016" or something?
I can say confidently the new keyboard will be released before Half Life 3. Hopefully. :/
Will it be fully split or not?
I can say confidently the new keyboard will be released before Half Life 3. Hopefully. :/
I guess I will wait 1-2 years for the split :) In the meantime - what about the Freestyle then? I've heard about a new Freestyle that will be with Reds, is it going to be released soon and what about Browns/Blues(many of us prefer tactility over linearity)?
QuoteI can say confidently the new keyboard will be released before Half Life 3. Hopefully. :/
I've ordered a keyboardio... Didn't want to wait another <x> years for a new Kinesis :-X
You heard correctly! A new Freestyle is coming out very soon. I will have more details to post in a couple of weeks.Will the new Freestyle have contoured keywells?
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/kinesis-planning-split-ergo-gaming-board-t10662.htmlYou heard correctly! A new Freestyle is coming out very soon. I will have more details to post in a couple of weeks.Will the new Freestyle have contoured keywells?
No pressure, I can wait few weeks for the answer :)
Reds are a no-go. Will wait for a split Advantage. Even if keyboards become obsolete by then and we all become cyborgs :Dhttp://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/kinesis-planning-split-ergo-gaming-board-t10662.htmlYou heard correctly! A new Freestyle is coming out very soon. I will have more details to post in a couple of weeks.Will the new Freestyle have contoured keywells?
No pressure, I can wait few weeks for the answer :)
Reds are a no-go. Will wait for a split Advantage. Even if keyboards become obsolete by then and we all become cyborgs :Dhttp://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/kinesis-planning-split-ergo-gaming-board-t10662.htmlYou heard correctly! A new Freestyle is coming out very soon. I will have more details to post in a couple of weeks.Will the new Freestyle have contoured keywells?
No pressure, I can wait few weeks for the answer :)
Should we make a monthly bump for this vaporware?
Anyone taking bets if it tops Duke Nukem? :))
Should we make a monthly bump for this vaporware?
Anyone taking bets if it tops Duke Nukem? :))
Should we make a monthly bump for this vaporware?
Anyone taking bets if it tops Duke Nukem? :))
Haha we're actually releasing a special Duke Nukem Advantage as well as a Half Life 3 Advantage Pro!
Seriously though the Advantage2 will come out this year! I'm typing on one right now!
...
Seriously though the Advantage2 will come out this year! I'm typing on one right now!
...
Seriously though the Advantage2 will come out this year! I'm typing on one right now!
This year? Like in prior-to-December-31-2016-23:59-o'clock-but-not-much?
I somehow hoped for first q. of this year.
OK, I once even hoped for end of 2013 when this thread started in 2012. Wouldn't believe devellopment of a keyboard may take four years, my fault, sorry.
No offense, natas, I believe it when I see it. Last three years were a bit frustrating concerning this.
You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.
I made my own keyboard (https://deskthority.net/post282413.html#p282413) in my free time over about 20 months instead of waiting for the new Kinesis Advantage. But there is a big difference between one prototype and a ready to sell product. I'm not surprised it takes about 4 years to get it out. That is the reason I started my project in December 2013. I was reasonably confident I'll have it done long before I could buy the new Kinesis Advantage :)Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool.
You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.
Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool.Thanks. As for as the colors, well, I used whatever was in the printer at the time I printed the part. So it is a consequence of me being lazy to change the filament :)
I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"I think this is the biggest problem. It looks too differently, some keys are at different positions (number keys shifted to the right, arrows keys completely different). The new layout is better but people do not know it. And people are afraid they would forget how to type on a standard keyboard when Kinesis Advantage is used most of the time. Every Kinesis user knows it is not an issue. Which is not helping much since these are the people who already converted to the right keyboard. And frankly, most people type very little and the keyboard just does not bother them.
Haha, that's a good excuse, I don't really mind the colors I just don't have anything that would match!Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool.Thanks. As for as the colors, well, I used whatever was in the printer at the time I printed the part. So it is a consequence of me being lazy to change the filament :)I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"I think this is the biggest problem. It looks too differently, some keys are at different positions (number keys shifted to the right, arrows keys completely different). The new layout is better but people do not know it. And people are afraid they would forget how to type on a standard keyboard when Kinesis Advantage is used most of the time. Every Kinesis user knows it is not an issue. Which is not helping much since these are the people who already converted to the right keyboard. And frankly, most people type very little and the keyboard just does not bother them.
And to be honest, Kinesis Advantage pinkie keys are not that good. Mine keyboard has them much better ;D
Look at a simple thing like keyboard layout. We have many layouts better than QWERTY and there is no cost to change to them. And almost nobody does it anyway.
Therefore I think there is no need to be afraid somebody would try to enter contoured keyboard market in a big way. Instead they put one half of keys a bit more far away from the other half. Screw up arrow cluster even a more than it already is on a standard keyboard and call it Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard. But the ergonomics is only in the name and not in the shape or layout.
Vivalarevolución is right. There is no competition. At least now. And I doubt it ever changes. Which is a pity.
I do think there could be some benefits by getting the gaming crowd on board though. Difficult to say if they'd like straight column keys though.
Oh I mean casual gamers not crazy sponsorships. Those people would probably start nitpicking n-key rollover and stuff like that but for long time players, I bet ergonomics could be used as a "winners ADVANTAGE." (Couldn't help it sorry lol.I do think there could be some benefits by getting the gaming crowd on board though. Difficult to say if they'd like straight column keys though.
My guess is the major issue with the gaming industry is sponsorship. The top-level/high-visibility players are sponsored, and using equipment from a competitor is likely a no-go. At least that's what I've seen with other sports. With so many big-name companies putting up big money, it'd be hard for an independent vendor to compete.
For the handful of FPS games I pay, I don't mind using the Advantage at all. I just map my movement to SDFC instead of WASD or ESDF... more comfortable for me that way.
I don’t think a Kinesis Advantage makes sense for game players. It’s too big and bulky.Very good points! I agree. Thanks for posting that I don't game much
Half a freestyle with MX (or similar) switches might be okay, but I doubt there’s much advantage compared to a standard 60% or TKL keyboard, since one hand is going to stay on the mouse, and therefore it’s easy to reorient the keyboard whatever way is most comfortable even if it’s one piece. In some cases might be a regression, as some game players probably reach their left hand across to use 7 Y H N and maybe U J.
Half a more ergonomic column-staggered keyboard, but maybe not as bulky or sculptured as the Advantage is, could be effective for them, but I don’t see Kinesis making such a thing.
I made my own keyboard (https://deskthority.net/post282413.html#p282413) in my free time over about 20 months instead of waiting for the new Kinesis Advantage. But there is a big difference between one prototype and a ready to sell product. I'm not surprised it takes about 4 years to get it out. That is the reason I started my project in December 2013. I was reasonably confident I'll have it done long before I could buy the new Kinesis Advantage :)Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool.
You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.
I have to disagree with no rush when competition isn't around. The fact there is no competition is scary because that means opportunity. Imagine if Microsoft took a leap into the true ergo market with a contoured board? They could easily do it and they'd have their split 'ergo' board fans already interested.
I think small companies need to sweat to stay on top and be REALLY proactive. Imagine if Kinesis had a bigger presence online and such? Pander to gamers a bit or at least get up every corporate nose possible to sell contoured boards?
Maybe they do, and I actually think they do, but I just hope things are going well. Instagram is a good avenue they could pursue. Their products and customer service are top notch, I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"
Someday!
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop :-[
I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.
As a follow up:
I'm looking forward to the Advantage 2, and based on what I've heard I'm guessing I'll be getting one or more.
I'm also going to split it...but this time I'll do it differently. I may enlist the help of Kinesis, Input Club, other GH members and whomever else needed to make the split clean, professional, not an endless project, and possibly upgrade from even what improvements Kinesis is making. The split will be caseless, which is the final mod I was going to do on mine. I'm not investing any more time/effort into my mod since the new model is being released.
The big items will be splitting into 2 halves, integrated pointing device (I hope to find better than the TrackPoint I now use, PBT keycaps (I hope someone has been working on this), and caseless.
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop :-[
I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.
Is the win7 USB 3.0 driver issue? If so, you know we can send you a work-around for that right? Just email tech@kinesis.com and we'll send you out a kit (assuming the BIOS options aren't available on your work computer).
No date on the new Adv2.
As a follow up:
I'm looking forward to the Advantage 2, and based on what I've heard I'm guessing I'll be getting one or more.
I'm also going to split it...but this time I'll do it differently. I may enlist the help of Kinesis, Input Club, other GH members and whomever else needed to make the split clean, professional, not an endless project, and possibly upgrade from even what improvements Kinesis is making. The split will be caseless, which is the final mod I was going to do on mine. I'm not investing any more time/effort into my mod since the new model is being released.
The big items will be splitting into 2 halves, integrated pointing device (I hope to find better than the TrackPoint I now use, PBT keycaps (I hope someone has been working on this), and caseless.
Cool, can't wait to see the end result. After we get out the new model/electronics, we can focus more on potential options of the Advantage, perhaps even a split version.
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop :-[
I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.
Is the win7 USB 3.0 driver issue? If so, you know we can send you a work-around for that right? Just email tech@kinesis.com and we'll send you out a kit (assuming the BIOS options aren't available on your work computer).
No date on the new Adv2.
Thanks for the prompt response! And yes, it is the Win 7 USB 3.0 issue. The work laptop I use doesn't have a PS/2 port if that's the solution :( Also a side note - we use a docking station with multiple USB 3.0 connections. I spoke with IT and they were not in favor of messing with the BIOS.
As a follow up:
I'm looking forward to the Advantage 2, and based on what I've heard I'm guessing I'll be getting one or more.
I'm also going to split it...but this time I'll do it differently. I may enlist the help of Kinesis, Input Club, other GH members and whomever else needed to make the split clean, professional, not an endless project, and possibly upgrade from even what improvements Kinesis is making. The split will be caseless, which is the final mod I was going to do on mine. I'm not investing any more time/effort into my mod since the new model is being released.
The big items will be splitting into 2 halves, integrated pointing device (I hope to find better than the TrackPoint I now use, PBT keycaps (I hope someone has been working on this), and caseless.
Cool, can't wait to see the end result. After we get out the new model/electronics, we can focus more on potential options of the Advantage, perhaps even a split version.
My motivation to go 'over the top' and invest more into splitting the Advantage 2 and involve others is fueled by what I consider the tremendous success I have had with the original split Advantage, the integrated TrackPoint, and the real keys in place of the 'rubber-nubby F keys. Also, since I did split the Advantage in 2009-10, there has been a progressive and impressive degree of enthusiast technical development and innovation. In 2009 I didn't have many options for various mods, now in 2016 the question is "Who do I choose to involve and for which mods?".
Exciting times in the keyboard enthusiast world!
Any update/news on a release date? I actually just purchased a Kinesis Advantage only to find out that it's not compatible with my work laptop :-[
I love the design and I'm eager to put this to use, but I'm going to return it and wait for the Advantage 2 so I can use it at work. Having some pretty critical wrist issues and if this thing doesn't drop (relatively) soon I'll have to consider other options.
Is the win7 USB 3.0 driver issue? If so, you know we can send you a work-around for that right? Just email tech@kinesis.com and we'll send you out a kit (assuming the BIOS options aren't available on your work computer).
No date on the new Adv2.
Thanks for the prompt response! And yes, it is the Win 7 USB 3.0 issue. The work laptop I use doesn't have a PS/2 port if that's the solution :( Also a side note - we use a docking station with multiple USB 3.0 connections. I spoke with IT and they were not in favor of messing with the BIOS.
That's fine, you won't need a PS/2 port. The "cable conversion kit" includes a main PS/2 cable and a PS/2 to USB adaptor, so the end result you'll still be connecting to a USB port on your laptop. By installing the PS/2 cable directly to the main circuit board (which is native PS/2 anyway), you will be bypassing our USB daughterboard/USB hub, which is really out-dated and is what the USB 3.0 driver on win7 has a compatibility issue with. By taking this component out of the equation, your keyboard will work perfectly fine with the USB adaptor we provide (the 2-port USB hub in the back of the keyboard will be disabled though) and you can connect either to your docking station or directly to the laptop. Just PM me your name/address and I'll put in today's mail for you, or send an email to tech@kinesis.com
Also the position of the arrow keys is really throwing me off. Any suggestions?
Hey all, I just got my Advantage up and running at work and it's great. However, being an accountant, I use excel pretty heavily almost every day. I'm wondering how some of you have adapted to using the control keys in excel (or whatever you're working in). I'm having a very hard time adapting to the position of the control key and my productivity in excel is plummeting. Also the position of the arrow keys is really throwing me off. Any suggestions? Maybe I need to remap the keys to something else? I'm also considering trying out the Freestyle 2 to see if that's a bit more accommodating.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.
I am interested but use Linux and OSX. And an Avocent USB KVM. Can I participate?
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.
I'd love to help, but I'm not in the US (sad face).
Hope the beta testing goes well.
Without a doubt: option of between 20g to 30g activation force keys. The datahand used 18g and it is the most ergo keyboard ever. Making fingers strain more with extra force required is crazy.
Without a doubt: option of between 20g to 30g activation force keys. The datahand used 18g and it is the most ergo keyboard ever. Making fingers strain more with extra force required is crazy.
Quick poll if you guys want different color home row options. I thought it would be a cool idea to have kits available for the Adv2 (or any version of the Contoured keyboard) where if you didn't like the base home row color (currently dark blue) you could get whatever color you preferred (red, green, dark gray, etc). yay or nay?
Also leave any feedback on twitter:
https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/723552554282455040
Quick poll if you guys want different color home row options. I thought it would be a cool idea to have kits available for the Adv2 (or any version of the Contoured keyboard) where if you didn't like the base home row color (currently dark blue) you could get whatever color you preferred (red, green, dark gray, etc). yay or nay?
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.
I'm not so keen on lighter switches as I enjoy zealios 65g..
What I think I'd appreciate the most is a switch with a higher activation point like the zealios or matias quiet clicks.
we're always happy to provide the bare parts necessary to convert a current Advantage keyboard to whatever key switch you prefer and it's fairly inexpensive. You would of course need to source your own key switches & diodes (assuming they aren't pre-installed in the switch).
Latest round of beta testing has been great. So far only really minor bugs discovered which are easily fixed so this will likely be the final round of beta testing and we can wrap this all up ::::crosses fingers:::::I'm not so keen on lighter switches as I enjoy zealios 65g..
What I think I'd appreciate the most is a switch with a higher activation point like the zealios or matias quiet clicks.
While we only offer Cherry Browns & Cherry Reds, we're always happy to provide the bare parts necessary to convert a current Advantage keyboard to whatever key switch you prefer and it's fairly inexpensive. You would of course need to source your own key switches & diodes (assuming they aren't pre-installed in the switch).
Oh awesome on the mechanical freestyle, I think cost and staggered layout will help that sell like crazy! I wish you guys the best, and sorry for late reply I've been busy.I made my own keyboard (https://deskthority.net/post282413.html#p282413) in my free time over about 20 months instead of waiting for the new Kinesis Advantage. But there is a big difference between one prototype and a ready to sell product. I'm not surprised it takes about 4 years to get it out. That is the reason I started my project in December 2013. I was reasonably confident I'll have it done long before I could buy the new Kinesis Advantage :)Awesome work, little toyish with the colors but that's all preference, the design is cool.
You need to realize that contoured keyboards are not sold in huge quantities and therefore its development budget is limited. And competition is limited too. So there is no big need to hurry.
I have to disagree with no rush when competition isn't around. The fact there is no competition is scary because that means opportunity. Imagine if Microsoft took a leap into the true ergo market with a contoured board? They could easily do it and they'd have their split 'ergo' board fans already interested.
I think small companies need to sweat to stay on top and be REALLY proactive. Imagine if Kinesis had a bigger presence online and such? Pander to gamers a bit or at least get up every corporate nose possible to sell contoured boards?
Maybe they do, and I actually think they do, but I just hope things are going well. Instagram is a good avenue they could pursue. Their products and customer service are top notch, I just wish "WHAT IS THAT KEYBOARD" would go away to make room for "I WANT A KINESIS!"
Someday!
We've also had a number of other projects being worked on at the same time, and we are a very small company (~12 employees) so resources/time is a factor (Bluetooth Freestyle2, mechanical Freestyle/gaming keyboard, our foot switches went through a major overhaul (which are a big seller for us), etc.). With that said, I agree with your points. We are going to launch a couple new products this year and we'll see how people respond to the mechanical Freestyle (hopefully really well since we sell much more Freestyle keyboards than our Contoured keyboards).
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.
Any current Advantage users who have Windows 8 or Windows 10 interested in testing out the Beta Adv2 keyboard for the next few weeks or so (in the US)? If so please email me over at tech@kinesis.com and I'll let you know the specifics. Participants are expected to receive a free Adv2 keyboard when it's available this year.
OH HOW did I MISS THIS!? lol. I'd emailed back and forth about the beta program but I guess I wasn't needed. If you guys need any further Win7 testing OR product photos (seriously I'm a photographer) let me know. Not sure I can upgrade to Windows 10 for fear my programs wouldn't work right, but I'd be darn tempted to get a new keyboard, haha. :thumb:
I can't say I have been ignored though, I won a Freestyle2 Blue through your "show us your desktops" thing a while back. :)
Latest round of beta testing has been great. So far only really minor bugs discovered which are easily fixed so this will likely be the final round of beta testing and we can wrap this all up ::::crosses fingers:::::
While we only offer Cherry Browns & Cherry Reds, we're always happy to provide the bare parts necessary to convert a current Advantage keyboard to whatever key switch you prefer and it's fairly inexpensive. You would of course need to source your own key switches & diodes (assuming they aren't pre-installed in the switch).
Latest round of beta testing has been great. So far only really minor bugs discovered which are easily fixed so this will likely be the final round of beta testing and we can wrap this all up ::::crosses fingers:::::
Oh, I'm happy to hear this. I'm really looking forward to the release of the Advantage 2.While we only offer Cherry Browns & Cherry Reds, we're always happy to provide the bare parts necessary to convert a current Advantage keyboard to whatever key switch you prefer and it's fairly inexpensive. You would of course need to source your own key switches & diodes (assuming they aren't pre-installed in the switch).
This would make me very happy. I tend to bottom out on my switches, so I'd really want to put some of the heaviest switches I can find on my next Kinesis. If I could get a kit and put my own switches and diodes in it, I'd be in hog heaven.
I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but I'd love to have a board with a flashable firmware chip in it that would take TMK or QMK firmware so I could program in my own layouts and make changes where I see fit. In the mean time, I'll just be happy with knowing that I can swap some keys around like I've been doing for the last 16 years.
I want a Advantage V2 Pro model (with the customary silver finish) but I would like to get home-row keys that are grey as well to really bring a monotone vibe to the color scheme :)
I want a Advantage V2 Pro model (with the customary silver finish) but I would like to get home-row keys that are grey as well to really bring a monotone vibe to the color scheme :)
I got you fam:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-silver/
(in the box also comes with the optional blue home row keys)
Here is the regular Avantage2 (black, blue home row (no gray keys)):
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/
We only have about 20-30 of these since the hydroskin was very expensive (much more than we wanted)! But we may make more if there is interest:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/
We only have about 20-30 of these since the hydroskin was very expensive (much more than we wanted)! But we may make more if there is interest:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/
We only have about 20-30 of these since the hydroskin was very expensive (much more than we wanted)! But we may make more if there is interest:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/
How much heavier is it than the regular finish Advantage2? It's only the top half I presume (the bottom is silver or black)?
Yay!
I'm curious, what's the difference between the basic and QD models?
I got you fam:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-silver/
(in the box also comes with the optional blue home row keys)
Here is the regular Avantage2 (black, blue home row (no gray keys)):
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/
We only have about 20-30 of these since the hydroskin was very expensive (much more than we wanted)! But we may make more if there is interest:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/
Yay!
I'm curious, what's the difference between the basic and QD models?
It's just like before with the original Advantage and the Advantage/QD - only the key caps are different (QD model has dual legend qwerty/dvorak key caps). Other than they are identical.
I think for people who may want to have multiple switchable layouts in their keyboards the blank keycap set makes sense.
I got you fam:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-silver/
(in the box also comes with the optional blue home row keys)
Here is the regular Avantage2 (black, blue home row (no gray keys)):
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/
We only have about 20-30 of these since the hydroskin was very expensive (much more than we wanted)! But we may make more if there is interest:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/
Finally :D :D :D :D :D
I can't wait to lay my hands on it.
According to the pdf-brochure, there are UK, GER and SE versions intended in the future. Will there be a blank key cap version? I'd rather omit spending additional 40 bucks for a blank set.
If this results in too many options, maybe it might be an option to package stripped keyboards with a desired set of key caps; people intending to apply the o-ring mod have to strip the keyboard anyway.
I got you fam:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-silver/ (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-silver/)
(in the box also comes with the optional blue home row keys)
Here is the regular Avantage2 (black, blue home row (no gray keys)):
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/)
We only have about 20-30 of these since the hydroskin was very expensive (much more than we wanted)! But we may make more if there is interest:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/ (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/)
Finally :D :D :D :D :D
I can't wait to lay my hands on it.
According to the pdf-brochure, there are UK, GER and SE versions intended in the future. Will there be a blank key cap version? I'd rather omit spending additional 40 bucks for a blank set.
If this results in too many options, maybe it might be an option to package stripped keyboards with a desired set of key caps; people intending to apply the o-ring mod have to strip the keyboard anyway.
I think that's a good idea. I know we we probably don't want to have too many versions (it gets confusing for our resellers) but it probably wouldn't hurt to add one more for Blank keys. Or at the very least perhaps we can work directly with people for a "special order KB600-blank" or something like that not listed on our website. Kind of a geekhack exclusive. I'm going to push for this.
I thought blanks were available?
I got you fam:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-silver/ (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-silver/)
(in the box also comes with the optional blue home row keys)
Here is the regular Avantage2 (black, blue home row (no gray keys)):
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/)
We only have about 20-30 of these since the hydroskin was very expensive (much more than we wanted)! But we may make more if there is interest:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/ (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2-graphite/)
Finally :D :D :D :D :D
I can't wait to lay my hands on it.
According to the pdf-brochure, there are UK, GER and SE versions intended in the future. Will there be a blank key cap version? I'd rather omit spending additional 40 bucks for a blank set.
If this results in too many options, maybe it might be an option to package stripped keyboards with a desired set of key caps; people intending to apply the o-ring mod have to strip the keyboard anyway.
I think that's a good idea. I know we we probably don't want to have too many versions (it gets confusing for our resellers) but it probably wouldn't hurt to add one more for Blank keys. Or at the very least perhaps we can work directly with people for a "special order KB600-blank" or something like that not listed on our website. Kind of a geekhack exclusive. I'm going to push for this.
1) BLANK KEYCAP OPTION X 1,000,000,000
2) And somewhere, someplace, someone PLEASE assemble the KINESIS ADVANTAGE keycaps in PBT or POM.
Cherry ML switch implementation? Say what? intrigued :)
Cherry ML switch implementation? Say what? intrigued :)
Kinesis is now using ML switches on the upper function row instead of the mushy, rubber, press buttons. Major upgrade!
Thank you so much for listening to my and many other's request of using mechanical switches for function keys. Now it is perfect.
Would you offer an "upgrade kit" for Advantage 1 owners?
Thank you so much for listening to my and many other's request of using mechanical switches for function keys. Now it is perfect.
Would you offer an "upgrade kit" for Advantage 1 owners?
An "upgrade" option would be great :)
They are/were available, but may be limited. They are black.
Was there any decision on selling home key color sets separately?
@Natas Do you know when the new advantage keyboard will be available at resellers in europe? i'm really looking forward to it. But purchasing directly from kinesis would come close to 500 euros with shipping, taxes, etc. Although I wonder if resellers can offer a better price...
@Natas Do you know when the new advantage keyboard will be available at resellers in europe? i'm really looking forward to it. But purchasing directly from kinesis would come close to 500 euros with shipping, taxes, etc. Although I wonder if resellers can offer a better price...
Little bit of a delay with our international resellers. I would say at least 3-4 weeks before our European resellers are selling them.
@Natas Do you know when the new advantage keyboard will be available at resellers in europe? i'm really looking forward to it. But purchasing directly from kinesis would come close to 500 euros with shipping, taxes, etc. Although I wonder if resellers can offer a better price...
Little bit of a delay with our international resellers. I would say at least 3-4 weeks before our European resellers are selling them.
Does that include the international layouts? and on that note, I heard that you were thinking of moving the Å-key (on the SE-layout), did you? and if so, where did it end up?
Thank you for an awesome kbd!
Received my Advantage 2 LF yesterday. It's amazing! Thanks Kinesis!
The firmware is awesome, and finally momentary keypad action can be mapped to any key. Great to be able to save my layout in a text file too!
Received my Advantage 2 LF yesterday. It's amazing! Thanks Kinesis!
The firmware is awesome, and finally momentary keypad action can be mapped to any key. Great to be able to save my layout in a text file too!
Glad to hear it! Much easier to program the keypad now versus the old "hack" way of doing it.
Should be some new firmware up on our website later today to fix some bugs in the original build. It will be on our Adv2 resources page:
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage2-resources/
There is currently 1.0.18 on the resource page which is really only needed for international users. The next firmware that you'll want to update to is 1.0.35, which again should be up later today or possibly tomorrow.
Yeah, we got a bunch of different home row keycaps available although I'm really only a fan of the gray and the blues:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/alternate-home-row-colors/
We may get different colors later if people are interested, like green (why don't we have a green?!), black, etc.
Oh yeah, the blank keycaps are available (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/blank-keycap-set/), it's just that they are sold separately and not pre-installed.
While we only offer Cherry Browns & Cherry Reds, we're always happy to provide the bare parts necessary to convert a current Advantage keyboard to whatever key switch you prefer and it's fairly inexpensive.Would be super nice to be able to buy bare PCB's for Cherry ML function keys to be able to retrofit older keyboards - we've all suffered from those rubber buttons for years, lots of folks inserted extra buttons to remap to them at least some of the function keys - would be really good to finally upgrade those rubber buttons not at the cost of a new keyboard.
While we only offer Cherry Browns & Cherry Reds, we're always happy to provide the bare parts necessary to convert a current Advantage keyboard to whatever key switch you prefer and it's fairly inexpensive.Would be super nice to be able to buy bare PCB's for Cherry ML function keys to be able to retrofit older keyboards - we've all suffered from those rubber buttons for years, lots of folks inserted extra buttons to remap to them at least some of the function keys - would be really good to finally upgrade those rubber buttons not at the cost of a new keyboard.
You might want to limit this to, say, two pcb sets per geekhack nickname or something like that...
Unfortunately no, they aren’t compatible.
Originally we intended each would be compatible (Advantage1 user could swap out main circuit board and attach existing rubber function keys to new main board or existing Adv1 user could simply swap out rubber function keys to mechanical) but it didn’t work out that way. Many of the function keys wont’ work (a few will).
If it comes to that, I don't see what could keep me from wiring the new function keys PCBs to the main PCB using some wires and a soldering iron.Key scanning matrix may be different on Advantage2 compared to Advantage1. So it is possible that the only option is to replace all 5 PCBs. If that is the case then it may be cheaper to buy a new Advantage2.
If it comes to that, I don't see what could keep me from wiring the new function keys PCBs to the main PCB using some wires and a soldering iron.Key scanning matrix may be different on Advantage2 compared to Advantage1. So it is possible that the only option is to replace all 5 PCBs. If that is the case then it may be cheaper to buy a new Advantage2.
All I say is, it would be super nice to have a choice.
There will always be those who like to tinker and those who'd rather buy new.
All I say is, it would be super nice to have a choice.
I agree, I had asked Kinesis the same question as you.QuoteThere will always be those who like to tinker and those who'd rather buy new.
And some that like to get the new stuff AND tinker with it :-) I gave my brand new Advantage 2 LF the same treatment I gave my original LFs, and highly recommend both the new keyboard and this modification !
Megavolt:
It's a requirement you post some detailed photos of your mod.
I can't wait to see this....
Via iPhone 6 Plus/iPad Mini + Tapatalk VIP + while driving 70mph
If I have to cut some (or all) PCB traces and connect the buttons as my Kinesis Classic needs it I will. I don't need to use the flexible cable at all. Why are you guys (you, vvp and sordna) saying I can't do it?If you are willing to re-route function key PCBs then of course you can do it. You need to draw schematic for the old function key PCBs and for the new ones. Then scratch and reconnect the traces on the new function key PCBs so that they represent the same schematic as on the old ones. So it is possible to do it. I just did not expected that you are willing to reroute the PCBs. But even if you are willing to do it then I think it may be easier to design your own PCBs which correspond to the old schematic and use CherryML switches. It depends how much the key scanning matrices differ between the old and the new versions of the function key PCBs.
Adding the trackpoint was really easy thanks to geekhack.org topics:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55960.msg1291412#msg1291412
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=11420.0
As for the buttons, Sordna did all the work in his topic (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26579.0) and even answered my stupid questions.
Picture attached as you requested - apologies for fugly wrist pads - would love to get new ones but have no idea where to buy them.
version 1.0.46 firmware available now:
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage2-resources/
Check the tech notes for what it fixed and what features it added. For Dvorak users, I recommend updating since it will make your life easier in regards to programming your layout(s).
version 1.0.46 firmware available now:
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage2-resources/
Check the tech notes for what it fixed and what features it added. For Dvorak users, I recommend updating since it will make your life easier in regards to programming your layout(s).
natas206, is there a plan in the works for interested customers adding themselves to an announcement email list for firmware updates to the Advantage 2? That would be helpful to keep track of new updates without refreshing the Advantage 2 resource page regularly.
All I say is, it would be super nice to have a choice.
I agree, I had asked Kinesis the same question as you.QuoteThere will always be those who like to tinker and those who'd rather buy new.
And some that like to get the new stuff AND tinker with it :-) I gave my brand new Advantage 2 LF the same treatment I gave my original LFs, and highly recommend both the new keyboard and this modification !
Is this the new model?
Contacting Technical Support
For repairs please contact technical support (techsupport@kinesis.com) for an RMA number. If you need help urgently, please call 425-402-8100 (option 2). Phone lines are staffed M-F between 8:30 AM – 11:30 AM and 12:30 PM – 4:30 PM Pacific time. If you call and a technician is not available, we will return your call as soon as possible. However, we are unable to return phone calls to locations outside of North America. When you contact Kinesis or leave a message to request technical support, please provide the following information:
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FAQs, Troubleshooting & User Manuals
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Determine if the key is producing the wrong character or if it is electrically dead. If it’s the wrong character, try remapping the key to itself:
1). Press and Hold the Program key and tap F12 (lights on keyboard will begin to flash rapidly).
2). Press and release the non-working key (flashing lights SHOULD slow down in speed. If they do not, this indicates that the key is not being registered and is likely damaged. If this is the case, repeat step 1 to exit remap mode & contact tech support. If the lights do slow down, continue to step 3).
3). Press and release the non-working key a second time (flashing lights will speed up).
4). Repeat step 1 to exit.
If the key seems electronically dead, you can try removing the individual keycap (if you have a USB keyboard it should have came with a “keycap removal tool.” Use this to remove the keycap. If your keyboard did not come with the tool, use two paper clips- bend them in the shape of a hook or “J” and pull the keycap straight up) and spray canned air inside the key switch to remove any dirt/debris. If there appears to be any sticky residues on the keycap or on the key switch, try to clean the area as best as you can (usually a damp paper towel is good enough).
If the problem continues, it is likely that the individual key switch is damaged and may require a repair.
Customer support at Kinesis is pretty much top notch.
I have a small test for anybody who would have the Kinesis Advantage 2:
* Direct your web browser to https://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/AntiGhostingExplained.mspx
* Click to use the application at the top of the page.
* Hold down six alphanumeric keys simultaneously.
* While holding down the six keys, press a seventh alphanumeric key ... and report what happens!
The old Kinesis Advantage (v1) had a bug, in which it forgot ALL key presses when this happened.
Other keyboards behave in one of three ways:
- It has N-key rollover, so it will report all of them anyway
- It will refuse to acknowledge the seventh key press
- The oldest pressed key will disappear.
I think it would be interesting to see if the old bug is still there ...
That's good! :) Thanks!
To be clear, I took an original Adv1, held down 6 keys which shows up on the screen, press a 7th key and the previous six keys disappear (or forgets like you said). With the Adv2 however, I press and hold 6 keys, tap a 7th key and the 6 keys remain held down on the screen.Same thing with my Advantage and Advantage2. Out of curiosity, is this 'bug' on Adv1 actually a problem for people? I only ask since I don't think I've ever needed to press that many keys at once in normal everyday use.
We'll probably have a firmware update at some point to add full n-key rollover support as well. This is a feature the "gaming" Freesytle keyboard will have and since it's using the same technology seems possible to implement it here as well, probably won't be anytime soon though.Didn't realize you guys were still working on the gaming Freestyle. Is the plan still to use mechanical switches and is there an ETA for it?
To be clear, I took an original Adv1, held down 6 keys which shows up on the screen, press a 7th key and the previous six keys disappear (or forgets like you said). With the Adv2 however, I press and hold 6 keys, tap a 7th key and the 6 keys remain held down on the screen.Same thing with my Advantage and Advantage2. Out of curiosity, is this 'bug' on Adv1 actually a problem for people? I only ask since I don't think I've ever needed to press that many keys at once in normal everyday use.
Didn't realize you guys were still working on the gaming Freestyle. Is the plan still to use mechanical switches and is there an ETA for it?
Q1 2017 isn't actually that bad in terms of waiting. Looking forward to this one.
Any chance the gaming version will have some extra keys on the left side?
Q1 2017 isn't actually that bad in terms of waiting. Looking forward to this one.
Any chance the gaming version will have some extra keys on the left side?
Unless the plan has changed, it should have 8 macros keys on the left. I'm interested but I've been having difficulties with using keyboards without thumb clusters.
Q1 2017 isn't actually that bad in terms of waiting. Looking forward to this one.
Any chance the gaming version will have some extra keys on the left side?
Unless the plan has changed, it should have 8 macros keys on the left. I'm interested but I've been having difficulties with using keyboards without thumb clusters.
That's right- dedicated macro keys on the left side, although the entire keyboard is fully programmable as well so you wont be limited to just those keys. It will have similar technology as the Advantage2 so you can expect multiple layouts, etc.
I'm the same way - I need thumb keys to function but for gaming I've never been able to use an Advantage keyboard and still need a more traditional flat keyboard. I've heard similar from many of our customers though I'm sure some people are able to do it but it's always been a challenge personally.
That's right- dedicated macro keys on the left side, although the entire keyboard is fully programmable as well so you wont be limited to just those keys. It will have similar technology as the Advantage2 so you can expect multiple layouts, etc.Colemak doesn't help with gaming either.
I'm the same way - I need thumb keys to function but for gaming I've never been able to use an Advantage keyboard and still need a more traditional flat keyboard. I've heard similar from many of our customers though I'm sure some people are able to do it but it's always been a challenge personally.
That's right- dedicated macro keys on the left side, although the entire keyboard is fully programmable as well so you wont be limited to just those keys. It will have similar technology as the Advantage2 so you can expect multiple layouts, etc.Colemak doesn't help with gaming either.
I'm the same way - I need thumb keys to function but for gaming I've never been able to use an Advantage keyboard and still need a more traditional flat keyboard. I've heard similar from many of our customers though I'm sure some people are able to do it but it's always been a challenge personally.
I just noticed today that Pause/Break key on my Adv1 doesn't repeat when pressed down. Is this by design or is the rubber dome key going bad?
Auto repeat is a feature of the operating system or PC bios. It is not a keyboard feature. Keyboards send only key-press, key-release events. One pair of events for one key press.
I just bought one of these and really like it. :thumb:Regarding outside text editor, I've found it to work much better after I've made any changes with outside editor to eject/dismount the keyboard (as a storage media), go to another layout, then switch back to your layout of choice. I've also disabled the option to mount the keyboard as storage device on startup as leaving keyboard mounted was leading to some issues.
I do wish there were a graphical interface to remap keys though, perhaps something similar to the keyboard layout analyzer http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/config (http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/config), since making macros for some of the keys that split shifted and unshifted characters in a layout -- like / and ? on a standard keyboard -- is a bit of a pain. I like having both / and ? unshifted. You also have to make these macros for both left and right shift versions, since it treats both differently. The keyboard really doesn't like having the files for text remapping edited with an outside text editor, either, which makes the simplest method of creating a layout editor less intuitive. But on the plus side, once you get a form you like, it is really performs well.
So all in all I still like it a lot, and I think I will like it even better as the firmware and support programs are improved. :)
I really hope sometimes you'll reconsider and there will be upgrade pack for Advantage 1. I'm quite happy with its mechanics (even rubber F-keys), but that old bug with sudden CAPSLOCKING is getting me tired.I really should count myself lucky that I almost never encounter the good ol' stuck modifier bug on my Adv1. I also use mine with hasu's USB-USB Converter so that may have something to do with it.
Anyway, thanks for great work!
I hope also upgrade kit to adv2, but I think adv1 and 2 is so different.
So so, I upgraded the func keys mit cherry ml in diy stil.
It's not so difficult, but mechanical switch is super.
I hope also upgrade kit to adv2, but I think adv1 and 2 is so different.
So so, I upgraded the func keys mit cherry ml in diy stil.
It's not so difficult, but mechanical switch is super.
Do you have any internal pics of the function row key modification? Do the function row PCBs support ML keys or did you hand-wire them?
Got the advantage2 :D
I have some questions on programming and editing the layout files of the advantage2.
Is there a forum or any location where such discussions are placed best?
I hope also upgrade kit to adv2, but I think adv1 and 2 is so different.
So so, I upgraded the func keys mit cherry ml in diy stil.
It's not so difficult, but mechanical switch is super.
I hope also upgrade kit to adv2, but I think adv1 and 2 is so different.
So so, I upgraded the func keys mit cherry ml in diy stil.
It's not so difficult, but mechanical switch is super.
Ah man, I totally missed this thread, awesome job on installing the ML switches. Where did you get the blank ML key caps? I'd like a source or two I can direct customers in the future.
Very nice. How did you get your keycaps? I've tried doing this myself, but I couldn't find any cherry ml keycaps in the right size, and I've tried 3d printing keycaps to fit but have trouble making stems to fit the cherry ml switches.
from LEGO :)
So I finally got around to replacing the switches on my Advantage2 and Advantage.
Here are some photos of the process if anyone's interested.
http://imgur.com/a/V8x6H
So I finally got around to replacing the switches on my Advantage2 and Advantage.
Here are some photos of the process if anyone's interested.
http://imgur.com/a/V8x6H
I hope also upgrade kit to adv2, but I think adv1 and 2 is so different.
So so, I upgraded the func keys mit cherry ml in diy stil.
It's not so difficult, but mechanical switch is super.
Do you have any internal pics of the function row key modification? Do the function row PCBs support ML keys or did you hand-wire them?
MLs on PCB via hand-wiring
Just solder with wire. Nothing will be damaged.