Nice overview.
But btw I didn't use the term or discover this. I first saw it in the Cherry Wiki when Mtl added it. (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=319414&postcount=92)
Uh oh, we've got multiple versions of this Ergo Clear floating around now. The first one I saw was Harrison's (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:16351), which uses Clear stems and Black springs. Now we've got Really Ergo Clears, with the Red/Blue/Brown spring in them.
So, how do ergo clears compare to blues? Aside from the sound and hysteresis of the blues, how do they compare in feel ?
They are very close, but they miss that perceivable two stroke action.
Is that a good or bad thing?
As The Solutor, I believe you are capable of this !
Shouldn't "solutor" be a meaningless word in English ? :party:.
Yes, but the avatar fills in the blanks!
Anyway the interpolated graph (not based on instrumental measurements) is ready, take it with a grain of salt but should be close enough to the behavior of the real switch.Show Image(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4899/beigemx2.png)
To clarify, this is for the CLEAR stem with a BROWN/BLUE/RED spring = "ERGO CLEAR".
Several of the Cherry Corp old force curves aren't quite accurate. Unfortunately I haven't seen an updated Cherry Clear force curve.
I thought the graph's tile was "clear" enough :happy:
I thanked you first you ungrateful slut.
I thanked you first you ungrateful slut.
How about a graph for a "Tacto Clear"? Or is that not a desirable switch? I'm re-reading a couple wikis about them now.
American humor sometimes doesn't translate well.
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First I think tacto clear is a pointless name.
I purposed tacto black (and people agreed) because tacto = clear stem, black = black spring.
A tacto clear is just a clear, given this metric...
Second I haven't tested one of it but just the springs, and the looks different but act almost the same, if not identical
Third even if the difference is real should be too little to be worth.. IMO getto black (red) and ergo clears are the only worth mods (i tried also glued blues, they are too close to browns).
Maybe the BS lovers may like blue stems + clear or black springs....
"tacto clear" name came from the wiki...
"ghetto reds" are a good mod, but if you get real "reds" you don't need the mod...
So...it sounds like tacto and ergo clears are nearly identical in feel?
Tacto clear as named in wiki....(this is where I saw it)
I assume the ripster's memory failed again, I'll wait a word from ripster about this, to see if there is a valid reason I missed, if not I'll correct this.
WHAT??? I have to unlearn "tacto clear" and re-learn it as "tacto black"??????
WHAT??? I have to unlearn "tacto clear" and re-learn it as "tacto black"??????
Someone also suggested "panda clears" as an alternative name, IIRC.
IIRC mtl said that the panda clears felt a lot better than the default clear switches.
Sounds like they are a bit softer. My curiosity has been piqued.
Fun graphic.
I like everything about the blue mx except that I'm bottoming too often. Do you think ergo clears have the potential to change that? Probably not...Why don't you give Panda Blues a try. Take a Black spring and put it under a Blue stem. Feels pretty good to me.
Standard clears are said to be good for not bottoming, but I have them on work and I don't like the non-crispy frictiony action around the pressure point at all. The softer spring probably makes it crispier, but then again also more prone to bottoming.
Why don't you give Panda Blues a try. Take a Black spring and put it under a Blue stem. Feels pretty good to me.
Speaking of which, Panda Clears are probably what you want if you're trying to avoid bottoming out, but the default Clear feel bothers you.
Well, since the stiffness of the spring doesn't influence the click mechanism of the blues, I thought they would maybe partly lose their clicky feel due to the black spring. Ok, that looks like a contradiction, but what I mean is: higher force + same click = less clicky feel + same click sound
But yes, it could be interesting for non bottoming. I think I'll try them.
Why do you think Panda Clears would be better than standard clears against bottoming? I would say: less force + same click mechanism = more bottoming.
Regarding the Panda Clears, I was implying that they would resist bottoming out like a standard Clear, but also feel nicer due to the Black spring.
Well, since the stiffness of the spring doesn't influence the click mechanism of the blues, I thought they would maybe partly lose their clicky feel due to the black spring. Ok, that looks like a contradiction, but what I mean is: higher force + same click = less clicky feel + same click sound
black and blue ?Cherry Bruise?
Panda clears is an awesome name.
I'll give it more time before I form my opinion
Why do you think Panda Clears would be better than standard clears against bottoming?
What isn't a Panda Clear?
Tacto black is very descriptive but doesn't make much sense since its a clear stem. Panda clear is simply another title I came up with for the same switch (clear stem + black spring).
It's also endangered and has difficulty with reproduction.
Here's the plot of a standard black switch compared to a black stem with clear spring. This is based on the published curve data though, so I'll revise this once I've tested the clear spring. Hope this comes out OK as I haven't tried to upload files/pics before.
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The stems are from a G80 POS board that was in quite good condition, I didn't notice any inconsistent switches during the 1.5 months I used the board. It's not that the switches stick down at all, they just feel like they want to rest in the tactile valley instead of bouncing right back up like my browns. They feel chunky even when pressing keys quickly. :/it felt this way to me as well since i've been typing on browns for maybe a year? you'll get used to it lol, i actually have one half of my board ergo clears and browns (1 cuz i wanted to see the difference, 2 i stopped midway cuz i wanted to finish another mod), and you can really tell the difference.
it felt this way to me as well since i've been typing on browns for maybe a year? you'll get used to it lol, i actually have one half of my board ergo clears and browns (1 cuz i wanted to see the difference, 2 i stopped midway cuz i wanted to finish another mod), and you can really tell the difference.
could you describe the difference you feel between the black and clear springs? I thought they were supposed to be very similar. I actually have some blacks but I think they're sold, and I have too many other projects going at the moment.
could you describe the difference you feel between the black and clear springs? I thought they were supposed to be very similar.
They are similar but the difference is perceptible, black spring is stiffer in the first piece of the keystroke, clears are stiffer at the end of the keystroke.
Hmmm... I didn't feel that but The Solutor and I always disagree. It's remarkable how similar a Tactoclear and a Cherry Clear are.
Tacto black is very descriptive but doesn't make much sense since its a clear stem. Panda clear is simply another title I came up with for the same switch (clear stem + black spring).
For some reason I always think of browns when I see the term tactile..
It's because you haven't tried a real linear until you've tried the Cherry Red switch.
Are you a Wizard?
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I stuck these in the Cherry MX wiki as "Ergo Clears".
I left the Black Spring/Clear Stem mod as "Tacto Clears AND Panda Clears".
.
I just found ergos a bit sticky. But I also like a heavier switch.