Author Topic: Trends you would like to see in 2018  (Read 13504 times)

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Offline WordStar

  • Posts: 1
  • Location: Canada, eh
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 08 February 2018, 22:11:55 »
4. QMK GUI!

It would be great to see more fun low tech thrifty hand wired builds. 
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 February 2018, 08:34:15 by WordStar »

Offline whiskerBox

  • Posts: 1037
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 10 February 2018, 07:29:05 »
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
I will say we have these surface book laptops for work, and they are pretty cool. Although after a week of using it, I have never taken the screen off or used the pen since.

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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 10 February 2018, 21:52:02 »
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
I will say we have these surface book laptops for work, and they are pretty cool. Although after a week of using it, I have never taken the screen off or used the pen since.
They are well made, they look (really) good and they work good (for the most part), I won't deny that.

The connector can be a problem, the keyboard gets NASTY if you have oily skin, USB-C, Win10S (not all), bricked tablets... And don't even get me started on the bait and switch that was Windows RT, which MS gave a a nice middle finger to owners before ending support.  I still remember the days when MS was considered a joke (and in my mind they have returned to this), but today, people bet their entire business on this company and their hardware/software ecosystem, a company who has repeatedly shown they have no care about you or your company.

Here is another thing to consider.
Why is MS competing with their own suppliers? The more you buy MS and ignore the rest, the fewer and fewer options you will have in the future. You are handing MS a monopoly, just like how Apple has a monopoly on their ecosystem. Do you REALLY want MS of all companies having that power. It's bad enough to hand them all of your security and malware (why do you need Defender? if the OS was built right it would be redundant), but now you want to hand them all power over your hardware and data as well? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.



I admit, even if the Surface was THE absolute best, I wouldn't want to recommend it for the reasons above, but there are plenty of options out there by companies who are not hostile towards your interests or trying to take advantage of you or they trap you in their ecosystem like MS can and does. Someone makes a Surface Pro clone, that is almost a 1 to 1 copy, with USB A and C, no keyboard cloth, and it's cheaper. How about the LG Gram (droool!) or the Dell XPS line... I don't even like Dell, never had one only ever considered a couple even worth owning, but even I would have to consider them they are so good. And there is of course, always Lenovo. They may not look as good, may cost an arm and a leg for what you get, and they depreciate like a Mercedes S class, but there is a reason big corporations like them, they are durable and cheap to repair/keep running. It's for this reason they lose value, too many flooding the market as they come off lease, but while no one likes depreciation, this leads to LOTS of of cheap parts allowing you to do cheap repairs and upgrades.
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Offline whiskerBox

  • Posts: 1037
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 10 February 2018, 22:04:12 »
Microsoft Surfaces not being so damn expensive!
I'm the opposite, I would rather see them be more expensive to keep people from buying the damn things.
Can't fix then, can't upgrade them...
I will say we have these surface book laptops for work, and they are pretty cool. Although after a week of using it, I have never taken the screen off or used the pen since.
They are well made, they look (really) good and they work good (for the most part), I won't deny that.

The connector can be a problem, the keyboard gets NASTY if you have oily skin, USB-C, Win10S (not all), bricked tablets... And don't even get me started on the bait and switch that was Windows RT, which MS gave a a nice middle finger to owners before ending support.  I still remember the days when MS was considered a joke (and in my mind they have returned to this), but today, people bet their entire business on this company and their hardware/software ecosystem, a company who has repeatedly shown they have no care about you or your company.

Here is another thing to consider.
Why is MS competing with their own suppliers? The more you buy MS and ignore the rest, the fewer and fewer options you will have in the future. You are handing MS a monopoly, just like how Apple has a monopoly on their ecosystem. Do you REALLY want MS of all companies having that power. It's bad enough to hand them all of your security and malware (why do you need Defender? if the OS was built right it would be redundant), but now you want to hand them all power over your hardware and data as well? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.



I admit, even if the Surface was THE absolute best, I wouldn't want to recommend it for the reasons above, but there are plenty of options out there by companies who are not hostile towards your interests or trying to take advantage of you or they trap you in their ecosystem like MS can and does. Someone makes a Surface Pro clone, that is almost a 1 to 1 copy, with USB A and C, no keyboard cloth, and it's cheaper. How about the LG Gram (droool!) or the Dell XPS line... I don't even like Dell, never had one only ever considered a couple even worth owning, but even I would have to consider them they are so good. And there is of course, always Lenovo. They may not look as good, may cost an arm and a leg for what you get, and they depreciate like a Mercedes S class, but there is a reason big corporations like them, they are durable and cheap to repair/keep running. It's for this reason they lose value, too many flooding the market as they come off lease, but while no one likes depreciation, this leads to LOTS of of cheap parts allowing you to do cheap repairs and upgrades.
Who hurt you??? J/k nah I get it lol. If I had 3k to pick a laptop with it would have probably been some kind of maxed out Thinkpad.

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Offline whiskerBox

  • Posts: 1037
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 10 February 2018, 22:06:23 »
IT guy already told me they RMa'd like 10 of them in the past year too lol

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Offline _rubik

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 11 February 2018, 17:58:38 »
3. Nicer Alps keycaps

...
3. Nicer Alps keycaps
...

1. I would LOVE to see more Alps support in the keycap department. It's hard because alps users are in the minority, but given the right set I think it would be very popular.


I'd like to see more

2. Alps Keyset support

Has there been an alps DCS set attempted since Alpine Winter? Interested.. The ongoing nexus slider IC is relevant as well.

Affordable spherical PBT keycaps other than DSA. I know there's XDA, but it's uniform profile. I'm more hopeful for Chinese sculpted clones or the random new Cherry-like sculpted spherical profile spotted somewhere recently.

I'd love to see more POM… that's a lost cause, though, I'm afraid.

Why is POM a lost cause? Cherry profile POM is high up on my list of things to try

There is some clear desire for alps support. Tough part is, mx compatibles will always sell. I don't want to say that's mx sets are playing it safe, but...
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Offline ander

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 12 February 2018, 06:42:40 »
Now I don't know whether I feel more old and stupid or less old and stupid... I always thought that backlighting was something silly to be turned off or ignored.

Are you kidding? They're just getting started. I have it on good authority that 2018 will be the year of keyboard strobe lights, mirror balls and smoke machines.
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Offline tron

  • Posts: 136
  • Location: OH, USA
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 12 February 2018, 14:51:20 »
Would love to see a solenoid in some of the larger retro cases or supported via break out box (pictured is my 5251 with solenoid).

Offline omjak

  • Posts: 52
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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 12 February 2018, 23:15:56 »
1. High quality keycap sets for Topre switches
2. High quality backlit keycap sets
&  Lower prices on everything lol

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 13 February 2018, 01:05:40 »
1. High quality keycap sets for Topre switches
2. High quality backlit keycap sets
&  Lower prices on everything lol

GMK workin on that second thing
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Offline TheInverseKey

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 13 February 2018, 12:43:51 »
PBT everything, I mean like keycaps and cases.  This way none of the plastic yellows.  Also the keycaps don't wear down as fast as ABS.

Offline _rubik

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 13 February 2018, 15:53:55 »
PBT everything, I mean like keycaps and cases.  This way none of the plastic yellows.  Also the keycaps don't wear down as fast as ABS.

I may be taking your comment too seriously, but pbt is a very brittle plastic and is quite hard to work with. It's great for keycaps etc, but is a terrible choice for cases.

See: https://www.kunststoffe.de/en/_storage/asset/589652/storage/master/file/6117989/download/Cause%20and%20Remedies:%20Brittle%20Fracture%20in%20PBT.pdf

As for pbt keycaps... I totally agree. My biggest complain with GMK is the abs wear.
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Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 14 February 2018, 19:52:18 »
Would love to see a solenoid in some of the larger retro cases or supported via break out box (pictured is my 5251 with solenoid).

Is there some small-ish solenoid out there that could bring a nice tactile punch to our cool keyboards?  I need this in my life.  My dream keyboard for 2018: beige, plastic case, 65%, solenoid, musical speaker, USB-C, and comes with SA retro keycaps installed

 :p
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 February 2018, 19:55:18 by reececonrad »

Offline tron

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 10:54:31 »
Would love to see a solenoid in some of the larger retro cases or supported via break out box (pictured is my 5251 with solenoid).

Is there some small-ish solenoid out there that could bring a nice tactile punch to our cool keyboards?  I need this in my life.  My dream keyboard for 2018: beige, plastic case, 65%, solenoid, musical speaker, USB-C, and comes with SA retro keycaps installed

 :p

Solenoids are dirt cheap and could probably be integrated into some of the larger retro cases coming out. It makes sense to use them given the retro design trend, however, someone would have to write code to support it and design a new case/pcb with break out pins (Rama and Wilba collab :thumb:).



« Last Edit: Thu, 15 February 2018, 10:58:51 by tron »

Offline TheInverseKey

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 12:51:13 »
PBT everything, I mean like keycaps and cases.  This way none of the plastic yellows.  Also the keycaps don't wear down as fast as ABS.

I may be taking your comment too seriously, but pbt is a very brittle plastic and is quite hard to work with. It's great for keycaps etc, but is a terrible choice for cases.

See: https://www.kunststoffe.de/en/_storage/asset/589652/storage/master/file/6117989/download/Cause%20and%20Remedies:%20Brittle%20Fracture%20in%20PBT.pdf

As for pbt keycaps... I totally agree. My biggest complain with GMK is the abs wear.

Yes the case being made out og pbt was a joke but you are right in the fact that I was there was more pbt keysets for mx mount switches.  So now I have reverted to space invader keyboards because they all come with pbt caps standard.

Ps. PCV cases like the model m also don't yellow might be a better option.

Offline AMongoose

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 12:54:30 »
Ps. PCV cases like the model m also don't yellow might be a better option.

We shouldn't really make anything out of pvc tho.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #66 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 13:01:30 »
Ps. PCV cases like the model m also don't yellow might be a better option.

We shouldn't really make anything out of pvc tho.

Why no PVC?
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 14:06:25 »
PVC is a nasty chemical. Bad for the environment both in its production process and as waste. Burning it releases poison.

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 15:17:03 »
Keyboard designs with a left side numpad, right side navigation cluster.
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Offline gilmoregrills

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 06:51:29 »
More topre keycaps! I'd be delighted if someone would just sell nice thick PBT blanks in various sizes so you could cobble together a decent looking set. Or a different profile? Something high profile that was a bit nicer and didn't require you to find a board from the 80s or something would be chill as hell.


Offline Wetherbee

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 07:21:28 »
1. PBT Keysets with GMK levels of quality. Seriously - the Koreans are doing double-shot PBT with the richness of ABS colors. Look at the new Leopold keysets. This doesn't bode well for the future for ABS. People say that ABS vs PBT is subjective, but honestly PBT is denser, doesn't shine nearly as easily, and doesn't discolor. Now that PBT can be manufactured in a doubleshot process with the same richness of colors as ABS there is no argument to continue using ABS. The industry just needs to adapt tooling to the latest doubleshot PBT process.

2. Better solutions for using MX keysets on Topre switches. We are 99% of the way there, just need some refinements in stabilizer support which the Realforce RGB TKL has solved (releasing in 2018). The Noxary XRF could be the best of both worlds with support for both Topre and MX keysets. The market doesn't exist for Topre keysets - we barely meet MOQ on MX keysets. Better to standardize around the MX stem (frankly an industry standard) and just adapt the Topre PCB to use MX sliders using a plethora of available options (many of which can be improved upon but which exist today with no wobble or other issues except for stab support).

« Last Edit: Tue, 20 February 2018, 07:25:32 by Wetherbee »

Offline _rubik

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 15:30:52 »
PVC is a nasty chemical. Bad for the environment both in its production process and as waste. Burning it releases poison.

I would love to see the environmental impact of this hobby. I recently did that math for amount of carbon released per bitcoin.... it's well over 3000 gallons of gas. PER BITCOIN.
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Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 16:10:31 »
I'd like to see SP start shipping their sets in trays like GMK, Maxkey, and JTK do. It's silly that one of the biggest and longest operating producers of keycaps still ships them in bags that they can get scuffed up in.

This, actually I wish everybody would ship in similar cases to JTK.
189223-0
Easily the best packaging I've seen with key caps, especially if you're comparing it too SP's here's your bag full of caps you paid like $200 for approach.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 18:35:57 »
1. PBT Keysets with GMK levels of quality. Seriously - the Koreans are doing double-shot PBT with the richness of ABS colors. Look at the new Leopold keysets. This doesn't bode well for the future for ABS. People say that ABS vs PBT is subjective, but honestly PBT is denser, doesn't shine nearly as easily, and doesn't discolor. Now that PBT can be manufactured in a doubleshot process with the same richness of colors as ABS there is no argument to continue using ABS. The industry just needs to adapt tooling to the latest doubleshot PBT process.

I have the new Cherry profile double shot PBT set from KPrepublic, and it is very nice. The legends aren’t 100% consistent in thickness, but that is just me being nitpicky. Anyhow, I just don’t like the feel of PBT caps at all, and much prefer thick ABS like SA or GMK.
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Offline Vigrith

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 21 February 2018, 19:27:03 »
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.

Offline OfTheWild

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 21 February 2018, 20:05:32 »
- I too am ready for a usb standard... C seems like the right choice going forward.
- I would like to see LED's go away in exchange for all clear switches and RGB underglow controls.
- Modern laptops with built-in mechanical switches.
- Kailh hot swap compatibility on more pcbs.
- Alternative finishes on keyboards besides Chinese anodizing.
-Dana

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 21 February 2018, 22:36:27 »
- I too am ready for a usb standard... C seems like the right choice going forward.
- I would like to see LED's go away in exchange for all clear switches and RGB underglow controls.
- Modern laptops with built-in mechanical switches.
- Kailh hot swap compatibility on more pcbs.
- Alternative finishes on keyboards besides Chinese anodizing.
I have a drawer full of mini and micro cables. I have become resistant to new standards, no matter how convenient they are xD
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 21 February 2018, 22:43:05 »
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.

I can get behind all your suggestions, especially ones about Topre to MX compatability & real new ALPS switches. I'm honestly really surprised nobody has tried to make a high quality ALPS clone other than Matias TBH. As revered as proper ALPS are by the community you'd think someone would've picked up the ALPS flag by now & been really pushing it in a high end direction. :confused:

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 21 February 2018, 22:47:55 »
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.

I can get behind all your suggestions, especially ones about Topre to MX compatability & real new ALPS switches. I'm honestly really surprised nobody has tried to make a high quality ALPS clone other than Matias TBH. As revered as proper ALPS are by the community you'd think someone would've picked up the ALPS flag by now & been really pushing it in a high end direction. :confused:

We need to sell it to the gamer crowd somehow.... 

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 21 February 2018, 23:11:58 »
1. Cerakoted and powder coated customs (at reasonable prices) seeing as the colours attainable are thousandfold that way; I personally feel anodising is a little dated but I know that's not likely a popular opinion.

2. Hot swappable factory assembled boards (like the Tokyo60 and Rama's M6, M10 and M60) so that more people have easier entry into the community.

3. Actual good topre to MX sliders and/or (ideally) another way of having MX caps on topre boards that doesn't require case disassembly etc. More/new topre boards wouldn't hurt, either.

4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias) and new alps keyboards in general becoming easier to procure than they are right now so that they can become less of a unicorn for regular hobbyists.

5. USB-C standard.

That's about all I'd want.

I can get behind all your suggestions, especially ones about Topre to MX compatability & real new ALPS switches. I'm honestly really surprised nobody has tried to make a high quality ALPS clone other than Matias TBH. As revered as proper ALPS are by the community you'd think someone would've picked up the ALPS flag by now & been really pushing it in a high end direction. :confused:

We need to sell it to the gamer crowd somehow....

This is very true for ALPS & even Topre for that matter to become as mainstream as MX, not sure what angle could be taken there.

Offline emenelopee

  • Posts: 398
  • *klomp klomp klomp* I step on your house 🦖
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 11:59:32 »
Showing my bias a little =/

- Fewer 60% boards rehashing the same but different;
- On the flip side, more full size please;
- Embrace of the left-hand arrow and number clusters;
- Kailh Box switches add PCB-mount pins;
- Higher quality and more varied shine-through;
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

Offline Kevadu

  • Posts: 382
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:22:45 »
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

There are physical reasons for some of these differences you know.  While I'm not sure about the pin locations (though I doubt they're arbitrary), if you're building a low-profile switch you probably also want to support low-profile keycaps.  And making the slider have an MX-style mount that protrudes into the keycap inherently requires the keycap to have a certain amount of height.  That's why the low-profile switches have holes in the slider and plastic pins on the keycap that insert into the slider holes.  The entire package can then be made significantly shorter.

Similarly I don't think making an Alps-style switch that's completely MX compatible is as simple as you make it sound.  OK you could probably make an Alps-style switch that accommodated MX keycaps (in fact people are working on mods for that...).  But you're not going to fit an Alps-style switch in an MX housing.  There's no room to place the tactile/clicky leaf spring.  I guess you could do linear Alps but is that really worth it?  I don't feel like there's that much difference between a linear Alps and a linear MX switch.

An actual production Alps switch with MX keycap compatibility would be nice though...

Offline rich1051414

  • Posts: 353
  • Location: Decaturville, TN
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 15:49:03 »
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

There are physical reasons for some of these differences you know.  While I'm not sure about the pin locations (though I doubt they're arbitrary), if you're building a low-profile switch you probably also want to support low-profile keycaps.  And making the slider have an MX-style mount that protrudes into the keycap inherently requires the keycap to have a certain amount of height.  That's why the low-profile switches have holes in the slider and plastic pins on the keycap that insert into the slider holes.  The entire package can then be made significantly shorter.

Similarly I don't think making an Alps-style switch that's completely MX compatible is as simple as you make it sound.  OK you could probably make an Alps-style switch that accommodated MX keycaps (in fact people are working on mods for that...).  But you're not going to fit an Alps-style switch in an MX housing.  There's no room to place the tactile/clicky leaf spring.  I guess you could do linear Alps but is that really worth it?  I don't feel like there's that much difference between a linear Alps and a linear MX switch.

An actual production Alps switch with MX keycap compatibility would be nice though...
Didn't SMK already do this? The problem is they decided on doing a different pin arrangement.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline sncbraxsc2

  • Posts: 367
  • Location: Florida
  • ⭐Domesticated Dweeb⭐
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 16:02:32 »
4. Real ALPS switches (not Matias)

That's about all I'd want.

Hear! Hear!

1. High quality keycap sets for Topre switches
2. High quality backlit keycap sets
&  Lower prices on everything lol

GMK workin on that second thing

I didn't know this, that's exciting. I'll be looking forward to pushing these on my gamer friends

Offline emenelopee

  • Posts: 398
  • *klomp klomp klomp* I step on your house 🦖
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #84 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 17:26:21 »
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

There are physical reasons for some of these differences you know.  While I'm not sure about the pin locations (though I doubt they're arbitrary), if you're building a low-profile switch you probably also want to support low-profile keycaps.  And making the slider have an MX-style mount that protrudes into the keycap inherently requires the keycap to have a certain amount of height.  That's why the low-profile switches have holes in the slider and plastic pins on the keycap that insert into the slider holes.  The entire package can then be made significantly shorter.

Similarly I don't think making an Alps-style switch that's completely MX compatible is as simple as you make it sound.  OK you could probably make an Alps-style switch that accommodated MX keycaps (in fact people are working on mods for that...).  But you're not going to fit an Alps-style switch in an MX housing.  There's no room to place the tactile/clicky leaf spring.  I guess you could do linear Alps but is that really worth it?  I don't feel like there's that much difference between a linear Alps and a linear MX switch.

An actual production Alps switch with MX keycap compatibility would be nice though...

Oh indeed, I don't dispute the constraints, and I'm sure they're significant, and certainly low pro keys need different caps, but if immediate uptake is desired a little backward compatibility would help. I made it sound simple as I was using the medium of bullet points. Maybe their intent is to start a whole new segment from scratch, I don't know, I just know I was a little disappointed I couldn't put the low pro switches on an existing PCB.

As to ALPS, that's a different beast - what happens in teh black box between the keycap and PCB is whatever they want it to be, but it would be nice if the end conditions were something that could easily interface with the bulk of the market. Again, bullet points, and just my tuppence.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 19:57:25 »
- Standardised switch pin locations and stems - I'm looking at you new low-profile switches, you're brand new yet incompatible with existing PCBs and need new cap designs. Any new Alps should be easy to slot into the heavily MX-biased scene if they're to gain any traction.

The pin location can be changed, however, it could significantly up the manufacturing cost of the switch.
However, there is more to compatibility besides the pins, the height of the plate to the PCB is also different. You're basically going to have to re-design the entire switch to make it MX interchangeable.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
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62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
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Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
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w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
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Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
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| Das Pro
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Costar model with browns
| GH60
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| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline emenelopee

  • Posts: 398
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Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 21:24:42 »
- Pins: it might cost more to fabricate, I'm just pondering what that would mean to better sales if PCBs don't need to be redesigned to accommodate. I'm sure my point is moot however - switches aren't designed for the enthusiast buying a hundred at a time, they're more likely for large scale makers in all industries who buy millions;
- PCB/plate gap: I don't see that as a problem - if the switch fits into a standard plate and a standard PCB it would have made no difference in my build. I am of course using the useless sample size of me and myself;
- My point is only on, as much as possible, standardising the end conditions. Granted the MX cap is harder to figure out in low pro, but common pins and maybe even the plate interface would please me immensely. It's like having a standard cable, or electrical outlets.

Also this is a wishlist, and it's a long way to XMas.

Offline Kevadu

  • Posts: 382
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 22:46:53 »
Didn't SMK already do this? The problem is they decided on doing a different pin arrangement.

Technically SMK switches aren't Alps clones.  I mean, they're similar to Alps switches but also just different enough to warrant a different classification, at least in my opinion.  They're kind of their own thing.

But yeah, MX compatible SMKs are pretty nice!  I'm glad I have a board with them ;)

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4519
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 23 February 2018, 05:02:45 »
- Pins: it might cost more to fabricate, I'm just pondering what that would mean to better sales if PCBs don't need to be redesigned to accommodate. I'm sure my point is moot however - switches aren't designed for the enthusiast buying a hundred at a time, they're more likely for large scale makers in all industries who buy millions;
- PCB/plate gap: I don't see that as a problem - if the switch fits into a standard plate and a standard PCB it would have made no difference in my build. I am of course using the useless sample size of me and myself;
- My point is only on, as much as possible, standardising the end conditions. Granted the MX cap is harder to figure out in low pro, but common pins and maybe even the plate interface would please me immensely. It's like having a standard cable, or electrical outlets.

Also this is a wishlist, and it's a long way to XMas.
It would be simply easier to replicate the feel with am MX switch, it's just a matter of ramp shape and spring rate.
There are some pcb's that are compatible with both.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline Zustiur

  • Posts: 235
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 01 March 2018, 04:06:46 »
1. Continual increase in genuinely ergo keyboards becoming normal office supply
2. Move away from rubber some cheap keyboards back to mechanical
3. Politicians being held to account for their lies
4. Big companies to realise that the continual cycle of redundancies and new hires is detrimental to the company over all.
5. Me sticking to topic better

Offline captsis

  • Formerly matt2dlg
  • Posts: 343
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #90 on: Fri, 02 March 2018, 00:32:56 »
  • More USB C adoption
  • Less RGB
  • More innovation (or less of the same [underglow, brass weights] in the high end custom market
  • Lower GMK prices
  • Clack to come back
  • This is going to be a controversial one, but the mass adoption of cheap mech boards ironically has brought prices of certain boards up. Model M's for example.  I dont know how to solve that problem but I feel like the community is goinbg through what can best be described as growing pains. Hope that doesnt sound too gatekeeper ish
  • More BBCode plugins plz Gekhck

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5036
  • Location: Koriko
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 02 March 2018, 10:49:55 »
Keyboards that have many settings should make it possible to change them (and save them!) with key commands on the keyboard itself instead of requiring you to install custom software on the host for changing them.
Few keyboard manufacturers have control panels that work on Linux or MacOS or even on 32-bit Windows (being 64-bit Windows only). Wooting One released a 64-bit x86 Linux version first after half a year, and it was not possible to change from the default rainbow theme in that time.

Offline Kevadu

  • Posts: 382
Re: Trends you would like to see in 2018
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 05 March 2018, 01:25:30 »
More non-metallic plates.

I built my first fully acrylic sandwich board, including the plate, and I really like the feel and sound of it.  It's less harsh than a metal plate, but it still provides a nice balance of stability (and switch positioning...) compared to going fully plateless.

I'm also quite interested in trying a carbon fiber plate sometime but while there are a few of them out there the options still seem pretty limited.  The vast majority of custom kits come with metal plates.  Frankly I'm getting a little sick of all the metal.