Author Topic: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%  (Read 16266 times)

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Offline Stewiedk97

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[IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 11:36:15 »
Pneuma Mk.1 60%
By Stef Wolters

The Pneuma Mk.1 is my latest keyboard design and my take on the 60% form factor that I have worked on for the past year. The name "Pneuma" or "πνεῦμα" translates and is interpreted from ancient Greek to the word "Breath" or "Spirit". This refers to the huge drive I felt during the design of this board. This drive showed me that designing my own products is what I want to keep doing and also what I need to keep doing to further develop as a product designer. This manifested itself in the form of the Pneuma Mk.1.


The Philosophy
The board was developed around the design philosophy that there are three acts of interaction with a product; noticing it from a distance, coming within its regular usage distance and getting upclose with the product.

    1. The exterior of the Pneuma uses fundamental shapes and soft lines without many distracting features. This creates an appealing shape that can be seen from a far and lures the viewer in.

    2. Once the viewer gets closer he/she can notice the symmetry of the board and design cues like the screwless exterior and the fact that the slope of the board actually differs from the typing angle.

    3. The final act is the close-up view with the product. Here the tiny little details like the tight fitment of the parts, the attention to detail of the internal design and the quality of the surface finishes from the different materials that are used.

All this makes for a refined / minimal aesthetic that that lures the viewer at first glance but becomes more and more interesting the closer you get and the longer you look at it. In short, a board that I'm very proud to present here!



Main features
Screwless and seamless exterior
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266019-0
There are no visible screws on the Pneuma due to the faceplate at the bottom of the case. This faceplate covers the screws that hold the base and top piece together and is secured from the top side by a set of hidden screws.

Slow rebounding gaskets
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266021-1
The Pneuma makes use of slow rebounding gaskets. Not only do these gaskets absorb vibrations between the plate and case but it also acts like a shock dampener for the plate to remove the harsh rebound you experience with other gasket materials.

Covering case angle
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266023-2
The typing angle differs 1 degree from the case angle. This covers a small portion of the upper keycaps to create a more visually even look from the side.



Details

The defined options, pricing and offering will be up for revision. For more info see Edit 4.

Specs:
    •   Produced by Salvun
    •   5.5° typing angle and 6.5° case slope
    •   Screwless and seamless exterior design
    •   Slow rebounding gasket mount
    •   Custom pcb by NecromanX with support for QMK/VIA and the following KLE layout
    •   HHKB and WKL case layout
    •   Available colors are: Black, Red or Silver (Samples in options album below)
    •   Available as an Aluminium edition (approx 1,05kg unbuild) and Stainless edition (approx 2,45kg unbuild). Please check out the options album below for more info about the differences between the two editions

Plates (will become open source after GB)
    •   ANSI: Polycarbonate or Carbon fiber
    •   ISO: Polycarbonate

Vendors
    •   MyKeyboard [EU]
    •   Deskhero [CA]
    •   Dailyclack [AU]
    •   Ilumkb [ASIA]
    •   Space (Space Cables) [US]

Timeline
    •   Unlimited GB running from 25th of July to 25th of August
    •   Estimated shipping window to vendors in the end of Q1 - beginning of Q2 2022

DISCLAIMER: The estimated shipping date to the vendors has been made around the start of the groupbuy. This date might be subject to change due to fluctuations of raw material lead times. This currently an ongoing global issue and it is unsure how long this remains the situation. Therefore the estimated might be subject to change!



Pricing
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266089-3

Yes the prices for the cases are on the higher end of the spectrum. But this is the lowest I can get them while still paying the manufacturers and vendors a fair price. The cost price is already fairly hight due to the machining complexity of the design. Lemme try and explain things a bit:

    •   The faceplate is just a few mm thick and requires a special vacuum fixture (this looks super cool btw) to machine since it cannot be clamped with a more conventional fixture.
    •   The large mid base need to be made out of pretty large chunk with much material loss due to some deep pockets and these pockets need to be machined at a lower speed to avoid them bending upwards and not fitting the top. Speaking of the top,
    •   The top needs to be made out of an even larger chunk of material (since it completely covers the edges) and also requires longer tooling to reach the top gasket pockets and screw holes since the spindle otherwise interferes with the already thing and delicate side walls.
    •   Then double the machining time and triple the tooling cost for the parts that have to be made out of stainless steel due to stainless being much harder than aluminium. So it all seems relatively easy from a theoretical standpoint but the reality is a bit more challenging due to fixture/tooling/settings limitations.

So in short, a lot of machining time and material/tooling cost. What I can assure though is that the quality that Salvun will deliver for the money will be absolutely outstanding and spot on. I'll make sure to make some more pictures once the private groupbuy units come in to validate that claim!
[/s]



Visuals

Available options and prices: https://imgur.com/a/8CCrnnk

Render album: https://imgur.com/a/Use4sz5

Prototype photographs: http://imgur.com/a/f1F9mzh

Typing test by Koen Romers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycMTcMampFA

Typing test by myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzqqDP-Ex8s



266025-4



Thank you for checking out the thread! If you have any questions feel free to comment below, or join my discord channel to join the discussion :)

https://discord.gg/U4xXuGuFrc



- Stef



Edit 1:
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Added image from pricing album to main thread


Edit 2:
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In accordance with the Vendors and Content creators we decided to push back the GB by a month to 25th of May till 25h of June,this also moves the shipping window to vendors from end of Q4 2021 to the beginning of Q1 2022. This is in order to make sure content creators will have enough time to create video material of the board and that there will be enough information available for those considering to join the GB :)


Edit 3:
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I've received word from Salvuns assistant that the boards meant from streamers and private gb joiner have seen some difficulties with fixing the old anodizers mistakes (they completely messed up the coating after keeping the boards hostage for almost 6 whole months). This means that I won't have these units at hand before the groupbuy was planned to start...

I definitely want these units to be finished before the groupbuy in order to conclude the private groupbuy first (as it should) and to give streamers the time they need to create proper soundtests and imagery. Because of this I decided to delay the public groupbuy of the Pneuma to the 25th of July.

My apologies for these delays, I know a lot of you are eager to join this groupbuy... There was still a slim change that the boards would be here last week (hence the late update) but it wasn't meant to be. Salvun and I have taken as much measures as we can to prevent these kinds of delays happening during the public groupbuy by using new machines and a different anodizer and I hope that this delay is more that sufficient to assure that we can start with all the knowledge and boards in the hands they belong!

Thanks everyone for your patience, and please let me know if there is anything I can do to keep your interest peaked!


Edit 4:
More
I have some unfortunate news to share. The last couple of months have been pretty stressful for me with things regarding the Pneuma GB... Lots of things have been going less then "optimal" with regards to things like the material supply, anodizing horrors and DHL damaging nearly every board that was supposed to be sent towards streamers last week...

Ofcourse, a certain amount of stress is necessary to properly run a business, but it has come to the point that it is starting to affect my physical and mental health lately... And while I take running groupbuys very seriously it is still a hobby for me, so once it starts to affect me or the people around me on a personal level it is time to take a step back.

All these things have made me realize that I don't/can't have enough control over the situation atm and that it would be irresponsible to run a groupbuy of potentially hundreds of boards when there are still quite some uncertainties (stressing my manufacturers, customers and myself in the process). That is not a way I wish to present myself toward my customers during a project.... So because of this, even though I hate to do it,  I have decided to not run the Pneuma public groupbuy at this point in time until further notice.

Does that mean the Pneuma will never run? Absolutely not, but it probably won't run in the regular groupbuy format. I am looking towards in-stock options which will greatly relieve pressure from me and my suppliers since there is no hard deadline to follow. But that is all in an infantile phase so I'm still working on that. For now I'll be taking a step back to try and build up this project from the group up.

I expect this comes as a huge surprise this close before the start of the groupbuy and I want to appologize to everyone who was excited about joining in a few days. But I hope that everyone understands the reasoning behind my decision. I want to thank everyone for their help and support up and until now and im looking forward to propose a new plan once the time is right!


- Stef
« Last Edit: Mon, 12 July 2021, 11:49:35 by Stewiedk97 »

Offline zoo

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Re: IC Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 12:02:32 »
nice, i like the well thought-out details! good luck with GB :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 April 2021, 12:04:04 by zoo »

Offline shawnlin

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 12:11:10 »
 :thumb: GLWGB!! Tbh, did not expect to see this on GH haha

Offline shima

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 12:29:11 »
this some clean stuff right here  :cool:
GLWGB :thumb:
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Offline Rafa_n

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 13:37:24 »
you should mention the price in the main post and not hide it behind the imgur album

Offline Chippy

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 16:26:13 »
Looks clean. I agree you should put the pricing in the thread and not behind an imgur gallery. Salvun is super busy, what is the estimated ship quarter?
This and the swiss cheese keyboard is the next generation of keyboards

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 16:27:15 »
Pneuma Pneuma aye
Pneuma Pneuma Pneuma aye

Offline yoniwolf1202

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 16:27:49 »
I like it.

Offline MisterWaffle

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 16:30:02 »
all lookin real nice. wkl best

Offline xiaoball

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 17:43:46 »
Keeping an eye on this one.
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 April 2021, 21:47:14 by xiaoball »

Offline azzipa

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 17:46:01 »
you should mention the price in the main post and not hide it behind the imgur album


Offline heyimpanda

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 21:25:00 »

Offline kk73715

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 21:34:11 »
Put price in main post please

Assuming 1 Euro = 1.19 USD
---------------------------------
Full alu: 430 Euro (512 USD)
Alu top, steel mid and bottom: 540 Euro (643 USD)
Extra PCB: 40 Euro (48 USD)
Extra CF ANSI: 45 Euro (48 USD)
Extra PC ANSI: 45 Euro (48 USD)
Extra PC ISO: 45 Euro (48 USD)
Extra gaskets: 10 Euro (12 USD)

All prices EXCLUDE VAT

Offline Narf

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 23:13:35 »
I don't suppose there would be a possibility of also having a standard 60 layout with no blockers?

Also, the case angle vs typing angle feature is a neat idea!

Offline QuaintSafe

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 06 April 2021, 23:47:11 »
Think it is saying something when you put all the info about the board and GB in the main post except the price. What makes this cost $200 more than the Salvation when they are both all Aluminum, made by Salvun, and Unlimited GBs?

Offline NoxNoxNox

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 00:01:00 »
Looking good.

Can't wait for the GB.

Offline SDKCAMPING

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 01:07:11 »
Think it is saying something when you put all the info about the board and GB in the main post except the price. What makes this cost $200 more than the Salvation when they are both all Aluminum, made by Salvun, and Unlimited GBs?

i am not justifying the price since I do think it is expensive for what it is, but this deisgn probably takes more than 2 to 2 and a half times the amount of raw material to make than the salvation.. since it is seamless, the two pieces have to be hollowed out plus the bottom piece.. also not sure what graed of aluminum the salvation uses

anyway, there have been similar boards for much cheaper, and this one seemsto be a lot more expensive still especially for unlimited and also does not look really complicated to machine.  but people can price boards whatever they want to , just don't be surprised if it is too expensive for some :/

personalyl I wanted this board but was hoping to buy for the 400 range, so i'll have to sit this out.. good luck with IC op

Offline $W4GK!NG

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 01:13:30 »
Put price in main post please

Assuming 1 Euro = 1.19 USD
---------------------------------
Full alu: 430 Euro (512 USD)
Alu top, steel mid and bottom: 540 Euro (643 USD)
Extra PCB: 40 Euro (48 USD)
Extra CF ANSI: 45 Euro (48 USD)
Extra PC ANSI: 45 Euro (48 USD)
Extra PC ISO: 45 Euro (48 USD)
Extra gaskets: 10 Euro (12 USD)

All prices EXCLUDE VAT


the board might look kinda nice, but its definitely not 500USD nice

Offline Steelbloo

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 01:18:06 »
Think it is saying something when you put all the info about the board and GB in the main post except the price. What makes this cost $200 more than the Salvation when they are both all Aluminum, made by Salvun, and Unlimited GBs?

Yea it is "saying something" as the answers to all your questions can be found directly under the price chart... OP probably didn't want to convolute the main post with their justifications. I agree that the main price should've been included though

Offline $W4GK!NG

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 01:21:38 »
Think it is saying something when you put all the info about the board and GB in the main post except the price. What makes this cost $200 more than the Salvation when they are both all Aluminum, made by Salvun, and Unlimited GBs?

Yea it is "saying something" as the answers to all your questions can be found directly under the price chart... OP probably didn't want to convolute the main post with their justifications. I agree that the main price should've been included though

I mean, op still feels the need to put it behind an imgur link where other people just embed the image and put the price straight onto the post but sure

Offline Stewiedk97

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 02:17:38 »
Hi there,

I was asleep here in the Netherlands so I wasn't able to reply immediatelly. I've added the pricing information and a short explanation for it to the thread. Main reason why I kept it in the Imgur link is to keep consistency between the places where I post my information as easy as possible (and having separate copies of information instead of a main reference that automatically updates all spots if anything changes makes things a lot easier from my experience).

I know it is a very expensive board (definitely on the higher end of the spectrum). The amount of machining time, material loss and tooling cost already put the costprice of just the case above the sales price of something like the Salvation and that is without cost for other parts and profit margins, hence the difference in price while having a similiar set of specs. I've put a more thorough explanation of the machining complexity that was originally also in the Imgur link in the pricing section as well!

Other than that. I will not be offering WK layout during this run to keep the amount of SKU's lower and not further increase the cost price. But I might offer that in the future!

I hope this explains the situation a bit better. And again, if there are any more questions don't hesitate to ask. I'd be happy to answer them all :)

Offline lewisflude

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 03:48:39 »
Did the private GB deliver yet?

Offline Stewiedk97

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 05:24:48 »
Did the private GB deliver yet?

No not yet. We've had quite a few setbacks with the old anodizer Salvun was working with but we are cooperating with a new anodizer for the public run. We are also producing a 2nd batch of private buy units that will go through the new anodizer and offer those to the private GB joiners if those finish production before the delivery of the 1st original batch in order to ship everyone their board as fast as possible :)

This batch is planned to be delivered during the GB timeframe but Ideally before it starts!
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 April 2021, 06:29:35 by Stewiedk97 »

Offline QuaintSafe

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 11:22:46 »
Think it is saying something when you put all the info about the board and GB in the main post except the price. What makes this cost $200 more than the Salvation when they are both all Aluminum, made by Salvun, and Unlimited GBs?

Yea it is "saying something" as the answers to all your questions can be found directly under the price chart... OP probably didn't want to convolute the main post with their justifications. I agree that the main price should've been included though

All that info was added after my original comment. I am glad OP added that stuff in to explain the higher price but I still think it is a bit high for what it is. Either way, it is a great looking board and will probably sell a lot of units.

Offline spacecables

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 07 April 2021, 14:49:00 »
Think it is saying something when you put all the info about the board and GB in the main post except the price. What makes this cost $200 more than the Salvation when they are both all Aluminum, made by Salvun, and Unlimited GBs?


The Salvation is a great board, it is a traycase that requires much less machine time as it is only one piece and there is less material lost as well, and since it is a collaborative design project in which Salvun partook in, he does not need to pay a full manufacturing cost since he is the one doing that himself and not outsourcing the manu such as how OP is.

This board is not being manufactured in China, which means it is more expensive and there won't be 20%+ b-stock boards received by the vendors as well, as they are all hand QC'ed by Salvun, a consumer within the community who actually knows the difference between an A-stock and a B-stock product.
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 April 2021, 14:56:46 by spacecables »

Offline azzipa

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 11 April 2021, 10:45:03 »
i'm really liking this board (but likely cost prohibitive for me). lots to like about design and manufacture and (anticipated) quality. looking forward to protos and initial builds.

quick question: i see "custom pcb" and wonder if wilba pcb or similar also might fit?

Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 11 April 2021, 11:36:11 »
quick question: i see "custom pcb" and wonder if wilba pcb or similar also might fit?

They will not as through holes are required to access the screws that fix everything together.
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 April 2021, 11:42:24 by _PixelNinja »

Offline azzipa

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 11 April 2021, 11:54:24 »
quick question: i see "custom pcb" and wonder if wilba pcb or similar also might fit?

They will not as through holes are required to access the screws that fix everything together.

makes perfect sense, thanks  :thumb:

Offline GMK83

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 06:08:13 »
All of the questions on why this board costs X  :)) Simple answer is it has sufficient margin built into the price to make the designer, manufacturer and vendors happy.  Hobby isn’t a charity after all.

Offline UGunaLOSE

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 23 April 2021, 07:17:02 »
Love the look and feel this is a great looking board. But I would have to agree with the sentiment of a lot of others, is it worth almost $500 when there are other boards (currently the Midway60 in IC guesstimated price of  $360-380... also aluminum and gasket mount) are roughly the same and cheaper?

Either way GLWIC!

Offline Stewiedk97

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 25 April 2021, 10:31:50 »
Love the look and feel this is a great looking board. But I would have to agree with the sentiment of a lot of others, is it worth almost $500 when there are other boards (currently the Midway60 in IC guesstimated price of  $360-380... also aluminum and gasket mount) are roughly the same and cheaper?

Either way GLWIC!


While they're both aluminium gasket mount boards, you need to take into account that the Pneuma consists out of more pieces that need to be machined out of blocks that are almost double the size in order to achieve the seamless look ;)

I generally try to not compare it to others. The Pneuma is it's own thing with its own set of features that I wanted to introduce into a single design and not skimp on some of them in order for it to compete with a lower price bracket. The pricetag is hefty for sure, but it's also not a watered down version of my vision and I hope that others will enjoy it as much as I do :)

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 25 April 2021, 10:50:19 »
Think it is saying something when you put all the info about the board and GB in the main post except the price. What makes this cost $200 more than the Salvation when they are both all Aluminum, made by Salvun, and Unlimited GBs?


The Salvation is a great board, it is a traycase that requires much less machine time as it is only one piece and there is less material lost as well, and since it is a collaborative design project in which Salvun partook in, he does not need to pay a full manufacturing cost since he is the one doing that himself and not outsourcing the manu such as how OP is.

This board is not being manufactured in China, which means it is more expensive and there won't be 20%+ b-stock boards received by the vendors as well, as they are all hand QC'ed by Salvun, a consumer within the community who actually knows the difference between an A-stock and a B-stock product.

Agree, i do not know why everyone complain about the price . you want high Salvun quality? Does not come for cheap
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Offline R4YN3

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 25 April 2021, 13:28:46 »
I love it. I want it. I will get it. Great looking board, excellent design. Price may be higher than some may like, but that will not stop me from picking this up.

Offline Sup

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 14:28:32 »
Made in the EU is already worth it and understandable for the price imo.
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Offline DeMechanica

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 26 April 2021, 23:34:00 »
It’s not just the number of pieces and the machining quality, it’s the end result, which to me is a beautiful popping sound very much like the Vega but without needing any of the dampening foam, leading to a really beautiful, untarnished sound. Well done!

Offline azzipa

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 28 April 2021, 20:36:18 »
It’s not just the number of pieces and the machining quality, it’s the end result, which to me is a beautiful popping sound very much like the Vega but without needing any of the dampening foam, leading to a really beautiful, untarnished sound. Well done!

all of this!

Offline Reebes

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 11 May 2021, 21:40:09 »
Board looks beautiful! Being in Canada, I’m used to multiplying prices to get to my cost, but this was another level for me. Hopefully one day I’ll be able to afford such a nice piece. Until then, GLWIC!

Offline jas_kidd32

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 24 May 2021, 19:41:19 »
I would love a standard 60% (non-WKL) version of this keyboard. The name is a plus, as a Tool fan.

Offline Bonsa

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Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 25 May 2021, 07:28:13 »
I know the pieces fit.

Offline DeMechanica

  • Posts: 63
Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 26 May 2021, 01:34:32 »
Could FR4 and half-plate options be added?

Offline mrvco

  • Posts: 92
Re: [IC] Pneuma Mk.1 60%
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 01 June 2021, 10:46:52 »
As a HHKB layout fan, I like what I've read about this board.  I would love to see photos of the prototype on a lighter background so the details pop a bit more.  Looking forward to to the streamer builds / impressions in advance of the GB.