I just bought some cheap dupont teflon stuff because there were no lube kits for sale. However depending on the price I may be interested in this stuff.
Yeah that's the stuff I got. I would have bought the lube kit things but the guy was sold out and I figure it's better than nothing for the time being.I just bought some cheap dupont teflon stuff because there were no lube kits for sale. However depending on the price I may be interested in this stuff.
If you're talking about this stuff (http://www.lowes.com/pd_363779-39963-DS1004101_0__), the Krytox is so much better and definitely worth it.
i may not be able to provide super cute stickers, but i'll do my best to achieve parity with jocelyne and jdcarpe's previous GBs. there will be some margin added, but all of it will go into the geekhack fund, as per the vtos.BOST!!!!! THIS IS YOUR CHANCE!! (context: bost has been trying to practice dirty dozens against me AND ONLY ME)
awesome! sounds like this is viable! go krytox!
and seriously, nubbinator is right. there is nothing as slippery and inert as krytox. it is the lube of gods.
Interested.out of curiosity, why 105? after looking at the datasheets, i'm thinking 101 or 102 with 203 or 204 max. i don't see a need for anything higher with our applications. the idea is to get a grease that has a nice viscosity in our active temperature ranges (20-60C) that can be "watered down" to taste with a thin oil. even in our machining applications, 205 is basically overkill, unless you bring it down to 203 grade with 101 or 102.
Are you going to do a variety of weights? I'm interested in both GPL 105 and GPL 205.
ok, so for the record, limmy's last buy was 101 oil with 203 grease. nubbinator and wfd both like 205 grease, and i'm starting to lean toward a slightly heavier grease. if you look at the application notes and composition documentation on dupont's site, the point of the PFPE greases is to stay stable whilst other things, the PTFE powder and a suspended oil do the actual lubrication. so, the oil actually does things like reduce coefficient of friction and the ptfe prevents wear and keeps separation between the parts.
target temperatures and viscosities are in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/DuPont_Krytox_Typical_Properties_H-58510-7.pdf
the chemical structure of krytox products is in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/Krytox_Overview_LowRes_H-58505-5.pdf
hence, i'm thinking 205 for the grease, and then anything between 101 and 103 for the oil. between 101 and 103 there are actually really only very subtle differences in viscosity; the differences are a tad larger 30-ish C, where switch crosspoints are going to sit, but the biggest difference between then is where they really thin out. it they were under quite a bit more pressure, say in high speed applications, it would be quite important to differentiate between the grades, but i can't see a huge reason to prefer one of those three oil grades over another for our applications.
anyway, unless there's additional input (i know limmy's occupied right now, but wfd and others who have used krytox extensively, please chime in here!), i'm thinking 205 and 103 or 102. this gives a nice spectrum of viscosities with different mix ratios. i am also going to spec out a good reliable source of good but not medically precise needle and brush applicators, bottles, etc while we we decide on the oil and grease grades.
i suspect this will be the first product available from through geekhackers, which is the firm that i've set up to provide for the community. yes, i totally just ninja'd that announcement in. surprise!
anyway, chime in, people!
that, unfortunately, i can't change, unless you want to shell out for EMS :PWill this ship from the US? I'd be game to use EMS or DHL if I could consolidate shipping with some orders from techkeys and and maybe a clear set from SP. ;D
Hey Mwaka. Do you need FDA approved syringes?no i'm going to get the cheapest crap that us plastics has. the less approvals the better. unless you can get syringes for spectacularly cheap, (cheaper than, say, getting them directly from china, which i may also do), probably not feasible.
And how much lubrication are you planning on putting in each kit? I might be able to get pre-packaged smaller quantities of lubricant for just a bit more.
Hey Mwaka. Do you need FDA approved syringes?no i'm going to get the cheapest crap that us plastics has. the less approvals the better. unless you can get syringes for spectacularly cheap, (cheaper than, say, getting them directly from china, which i may also do), probably not feasible.
And how much lubrication are you planning on putting in each kit? I might be able to get pre-packaged smaller quantities of lubricant for just a bit more.
also, PM me with the prepack prices you can get and i'll compare it to the bulk pricing i'm seeing.
OH DUDE. what about those automated pipette things? those are boss
Moreok, so for the record, limmy's last buy was 101 oil with 203 grease. nubbinator and wfd both like 205 grease, and i'm starting to lean toward a slightly heavier grease. if you look at the application notes and composition documentation on dupont's site, the point of the PFPE greases is to stay stable whilst other things, the PTFE powder and a suspended oil do the actual lubrication. so, the oil actually does things like reduce coefficient of friction and the ptfe prevents wear and keeps separation between the parts.
target temperatures and viscosities are in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/DuPont_Krytox_Typical_Properties_H-58510-7.pdf (http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/DuPont_Krytox_Typical_Properties_H-58510-7.pdf)
the chemical structure of krytox products is in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/Krytox_Overview_LowRes_H-58505-5.pdf (http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/Krytox_Overview_LowRes_H-58505-5.pdf)
hence, i'm thinking 205 for the grease, and then anything between 101 and 103 for the oil. between 101 and 103 there are actually really only very subtle differences in viscosity; the differences are a tad larger 30-ish C, where switch crosspoints are going to sit, but the biggest difference between then is where they really thin out. it they were under quite a bit more pressure, say in high speed applications, it would be quite important to differentiate between the grades, but i can't see a huge reason to prefer one of those three oil grades over another for our applications.
anyway, unless there's additional input (i know limmy's occupied right now, but wfd and others who have used krytox extensively, please chime in here!), i'm thinking 205 and 103 or 102. this gives a nice spectrum of viscosities with different mix ratios.
Syringes are cheap as ****, they are suppose to be disposable after all. Overall, syringes should be cheaper than squeeze bottles. Syringes should be about a penny each if you buy 100.
In theory, having them shipped in syringes is great. However, have you actually tried it? I have free access to every syringe volume and needle gauge. It's not practical at all. Getting grease into the tubes is not easy, and it's messy. When you try to put it in, it'll just stick to the side and won't settle at the bottom. You can try to push it down, but a bunch will stick to whatever you're using to push it down, and there will be tons of air in there you can't get out by flicking the tube.
Then syringes will have to be shipped in boxes. Sending them in bubble mailers will risk it being pressed by other packages or rough handling during transit, and some will squirt out.
From experience of transferring lube, grease should be divided into tiny vials with caps, and oil should be shipped in squeeze bottles with needles. If packaging into syringes, I'm betting Ming will give up packaging these after a few :p
Moreok, so for the record, limmy's last buy was 101 oil with 203 grease. nubbinator and wfd both like 205 grease, and i'm starting to lean toward a slightly heavier grease. if you look at the application notes and composition documentation on dupont's site, the point of the PFPE greases is to stay stable whilst other things, the PTFE powder and a suspended oil do the actual lubrication. so, the oil actually does things like reduce coefficient of friction and the ptfe prevents wear and keeps separation between the parts.
target temperatures and viscosities are in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/DuPont_Krytox_Typical_Properties_H-58510-7.pdf (http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/DuPont_Krytox_Typical_Properties_H-58510-7.pdf)
the chemical structure of krytox products is in this document: http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/Krytox_Overview_LowRes_H-58505-5.pdf (http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/assets/downloads/Krytox_Overview_LowRes_H-58505-5.pdf)
hence, i'm thinking 205 for the grease, and then anything between 101 and 103 for the oil. between 101 and 103 there are actually really only very subtle differences in viscosity; the differences are a tad larger 30-ish C, where switch crosspoints are going to sit, but the biggest difference between then is where they really thin out. it they were under quite a bit more pressure, say in high speed applications, it would be quite important to differentiate between the grades, but i can't see a huge reason to prefer one of those three oil grades over another for our applications.
anyway, unless there's additional input (i know limmy's occupied right now, but wfd and others who have used krytox extensively, please chime in here!), i'm thinking 205 and 103 or 102. this gives a nice spectrum of viscosities with different mix ratios.
You've looked at temperature data, but have you considered volatility? I was torn between 102 an 103 before I messed around with this stuff. 102 is much more volatile than 103 at temp range over 100C. We won't come anywhere near this temperature range, however this still tells us that 102 will be more volatile at room temperature. In the end, I went with 103 because I didn't want to have to reapply lube over the lifetime of the switch, since it's so tedious. Now I'm not saying 102 will vaporize (since no data is available at room temp), but if it were to vaporize, it'll do it at a faster rate than 103.
This is the same reason why GPL 100 can't be used. It'll evaporate in a matter of days. They're used on model car racing, but only applied right before the race event, otherwise it'll evaporate before the race starts.
Syringes are cheap as ****, they are suppose to be disposable after all. Overall, syringes should be cheaper than squeeze bottles. Syringes should be about a penny each if you buy 100.
In theory, having them shipped in syringes is great. However, have you actually tried it? I have free access to every syringe volume and needle gauge. It's not practical at all. Getting grease into the tubes is not easy, and it's messy. When you try to put it in, it'll just stick to the side and won't settle at the bottom. You can try to push it down, but a bunch will stick to whatever you're using to push it down, and there will be tons of air in there you can't get out by flicking the tube.
Then syringes will have to be shipped in boxes. Sending them in bubble mailers will risk it being pressed by other packages or rough handling during transit, and some will squirt out.
From experience of transferring lube, grease should be divided into tiny vials with caps, and oil should be shipped in squeeze bottles with needles. If packaging into syringes, I'm betting Ming will give up packaging these after a few :p
i have ordered dispensing equipment and containers for a large number of orders. the idea is to have an uninterrupted supply for at least the next six months. i have also made contact with several people who can make this happen and hopefully get us some better pricing, and conveniently who provided applications engineering expertise as well.
thanks folks.
Thanks Gucchi Ming. I'm definitely interested as well :):|
Thanks Gucchi Ming. I'm definitely interested as well :):|
#TEAMVERSACEMING
Polo? Plebe...
I'm rocking the D&Gs.
Mwaka, I just PM'ed you a link to 1kg of Krytox 1506 for $35. You should totally buy it as soon as possible if you do plan on using Krytox 1506. It should sell out within 24 hours.
folks,
i will have an uninterrupted supply of krytox oil and grease for sale for the foreseeable future starting either next week or the week after that.
the oils and greases themselves will come in spillproof vials, but i will also have applicator sets that will consist of a 3cc syringe and high quality 27ga luer lock needle. the geekhacker price should be as good or better than previous buys. hopefully as we progress, i will be able to provide different application hardware. however, i spent something like 10s of hours on the phone with an applications engineer for dupont and we have determined an optimal mix of oil and grease for our application, so i will _not_ be offering a variety of krytox oils and greases. I will be offering GPL 206, and krytox VPF 1506 oil (initially i will have a small stock of GPL 103 as a substitute while we wait on lead time for 1506 manufacturing -- i'm not entirely sure what i actually just ordered off ebay, despite the listing description, so we'll see if i have some 1506 to start out with as well). our lubricants will be 100% genuine and will be supplied directly by dupont.
folks,
i will have an uninterrupted supply of krytox oil and grease for sale for the foreseeable future starting either next week or the week after that.
the oils and greases themselves will come in spillproof vials, but i will also have applicator sets that will consist of a 3cc syringe and high quality 27ga luer lock needle. the geekhacker price should be as good or better than previous buys. hopefully as we progress, i will be able to provide different application hardware. however, i spent something like 10s of hours on the phone with an applications engineer for dupont and we have determined an optimal mix of oil and grease for our application, so i will _not_ be offering a variety of krytox oils and greases. I will be offering GPL 206, and krytox VPF 1506 oil (initially i will have a small stock of GPL 103 as a substitute while we wait on lead time for 1506 manufacturing -- i'm not entirely sure what i actually just ordered off ebay, despite the listing description, so we'll see if i have some 1506 to start out with as well). our lubricants will be 100% genuine and will be supplied directly by dupont.
1506 is a rough equivalent of 103 but for obscure technical reasons is even _more_ inert than 103. it's also cheaper due to competition in the VPF space.folks,
i will have an uninterrupted supply of krytox oil and grease for sale for the foreseeable future starting either next week or the week after that.
the oils and greases themselves will come in spillproof vials, but i will also have applicator sets that will consist of a 3cc syringe and high quality 27ga luer lock needle. the geekhacker price should be as good or better than previous buys. hopefully as we progress, i will be able to provide different application hardware. however, i spent something like 10s of hours on the phone with an applications engineer for dupont and we have determined an optimal mix of oil and grease for our application, so i will _not_ be offering a variety of krytox oils and greases. I will be offering GPL 206, and krytox VPF 1506 oil (initially i will have a small stock of GPL 103 as a substitute while we wait on lead time for 1506 manufacturing -- i'm not entirely sure what i actually just ordered off ebay, despite the listing description, so we'll see if i have some 1506 to start out with as well). our lubricants will be 100% genuine and will be supplied directly by dupont.
so the plan changed from 103 to 1506 ?
how is 1506 ? i've never used and i only used 205 and 103 before.
All of this sounds awesome :D. I'm honestly surprised they cooperated with you for that long, glad to hear this is moving forward so quickly!
i will have an uninterrupted supply of krytox oil and grease for sale for the foreseeable future starting either next week or the week after that.
the geekhacker price should be as good or better than previous buys. however, i spent something like 10s of hours on the phone with an applications engineer for dupont and we have determined an optimal mix of oil and grease for our application, so i will _not_ be offering a variety of krytox oils and greases. our lubricants will be 100% genuine and will be supplied directly by dupont.
So are we close to a GB on this yet?
excuse me bruhs, but i'm not too keen on the specifics of lube
all i know is i need a low viscosity oil and a high viscosity grease
will those be available for this? lol excuse my lack of lube knowledge
dat lube knowledge....
/me is content with mkawa's knowledge
sounds great
i'll be in for this :D
1) i'll be getting GPL 206
2) the _greases_ all have the same viscosity. this is given as their NLGI. however, the greases are basically a matrix of ptfe powder with oil embedded in it. the _oil_ in the matrix varies per the formulation number and that base oil has different viscosities with different formulations even though the greases all have the same NLGI of 2 (peanut butter).
so this begs the question: how do they achieve the same NLGI using wildly differing base oils? a-hah! it's quite simple: you just vary the amount of PTFE. in exchange you get different material properties (that aren't viscosity) with each grease but exactly the same viscosity. the way to read the datasheets is that the lower GPL 20xs are more volatile (the base oil is more likely to vaporize, leaving only the ptfe matrix), and the higher GPLs 20xs are less volatile, but naturally the oil dominates the mix more than the ptfe matrix.
however, keep in mind that krytox is generally VERY inert, so the scale really goes from "not very volatile" to "THIS OIL WILL NEVER VAPORIZE EVER". now here's the problem with volatility in a keyboard switch. if the oil does vaporize, it will get _everywhere_ it will get on the contacts. it will get all over the inside of the keyboard, etc. etc. and if you remember from previous posts, NOTHING DISSOLVES KRYTOX (except for more krytox that's been formulated to break the polymer chains, actually. it's cool but very expensive to do this).
the volatility is based largely on temperature, so the worst case is that you leave your GPL 201'd board in a hot car and the oil in GPL 201 actually has a chance of off-gassing at hot car temperatures. that's not good. so, i erred toward the "WILL NEVER VAPORIZE EVER" direction for everything, and the dupont chemist agreed. the other nice thing about this is that the oils and greases i will be selling will be useful in the maximum number of applications. you can run them in bearings and bushings at 200C no problem. they will be slippery as crap and won't go anywhere.
OK, that said, people like different viscosities of grease, right? A-HAH, the 1506 oil is really particularly cool in that it has insanely high vaporization criteria, just like the GPL 206 grease. however, the oil viscosity is actually really low. why? because it's been formulated in a special way that makes it appropriate for use as a vacuum pump lubricator. it also makes it absolutely perfect for our application. you can use it to thin out the GPL 206, BUT it doesn't change its vaporization characteristics in any negative way like GPL 101 or 102 would. In fact, it is actually _less_ prone to vaporization than the base oil in GPL 206.
BAM! optimal application for our use case :)
Sir mkawa, you are a very knowledgeable person!
i just got an 8.5kg package. goodbye weekend!
gross dude
ahahahah
yes, i only have hundreds and hundreds of tiny vials to fill. and seal. and pack..
A TRIVIAL MATTER TO BE SURE
(help me)
my living room:Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24794081/2013-08-09%2014.44.59.jpg)
ahahahah
yes, i only have hundreds and hundreds of tiny vials to fill. and seal. and pack..
A TRIVIAL MATTER TO BE SURE
(help me)
my living room:Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24794081/2013-08-09%2014.44.59.jpg)
Wow, look at all the warning labels and paperwork. Whats with the stuff on the top right? An unbuilt desk or something?
(help me)
ahahahah
yes, i only have hundreds and hundreds of tiny vials to fill. and seal. and pack..
A TRIVIAL MATTER TO BE SURE
(help me)
my living room:Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24794081/2013-08-09%2014.44.59.jpg)
ahahahah
yes, i only have hundreds and hundreds of tiny vials to fill. and seal. and pack..
A TRIVIAL MATTER TO BE SURE
(help me)
my living room:Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24794081/2013-08-09%2014.44.59.jpg)
ahahahah
yes, i only have hundreds and hundreds of tiny vials to fill. and seal. and pack..
A TRIVIAL MATTER TO BE SURE
(help me)
my living room:Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24794081/2013-08-09%2014.44.59.jpg)
ahahahah
yes, i only have hundreds and hundreds of tiny vials to fill. and seal. and pack..
A TRIVIAL MATTER TO BE SURE
(help me)
my living room:Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24794081/2013-08-09%2014.44.59.jpg)
fellows, compatriots.
i introduce to you
THE KRYTOXAPULLTShow Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24794081/2013-08-10%2020.03.51.jpg)
image: (left) soldapullt DS017 (right) krytoxapullt KS017
fellows, compatriots.
i introduce to you
THE KRYTOXAPULLT
I don't know what is happening in this picture, but looks like you are having fun with the lube.