Fruit Dealer's Keyboard

[Fwiffo]

The finals for this season of the Global Starcraft League (GSL) just finished, and here's a shot of the champion's setup:



I'm sure all here will recognize the keyboard (Filco Majestouch 104-key with Cherry Browns, non-NKRO) and probably mouse (Logitech G9x). The apple appears to be a Fuji. There is a thread on teamliquid.net Starcraft forum.

For those who are unfamiliar, this is a big-big-money Starcraft 2 tournament; the prizes are as follows:

• Winner: 100,000,000 KRW (aprox. $85,700 USD)
• Runner-Up: 30,000,000 KRW (aprox. $25,700 USD)
• Semi-Finalists: 10,000,000 KRW (aprox. $8,600 USD)
• Quarter-Finalists: 4,000,000 KRW (aprox. $3,400 USD)
• Round of 16: 2,000,000 KRW (aprox. $1710 USD)
• Round of 32: 500,000 KRW (aprox. $430 USD)
• Round of 64: 300,000 KRW (aprox. $260 USD)

Anyone can enter so long as they can get to Korea. There will be several seasons per year and the qualifiers for the next season start in a couple days. Season 1 had 3 foreigners who all got knocked out in early rounds (Idra, one of the world's top Zergs was expected to go far, but made a significant blunder in the Ro32).

A teammate of champion Fruit Dealer, sSKS (the Protoss player formerly known as Tester) uses the same Filco keyboard even though their team is apparently sponsored by SkyDigital nKeyboard. Fruit Dealer himself apparently used an nKeyboard during at least one round. Apparently the sponsor doesn't care what keyboard they use; too bad for them, as EliteKeyboards just made a bunch of money from that screencap.

[MissileMike]

Honeycrisps are taking over..  Personally I like cortlands more.

[kriminal]

nice... (didnt really have anymore to say)

[Fwiffo]

Northern Spy for me, when I can get them, or Idared. Failing that, Pink Lady.

[Shawn Stanford]

"Does this fruit vendor not value his life?! YOU ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME FRUIT VENDOR!!"

[Fwiffo]

All Around Cool Guy

Show Image

His handle used to be "Cool" back in the Starcraft 1 days. He changed it to Fruit Dealer after having worked as one to help his family's dire financial straights (actually, the exact translation is "a fruit dealer"). Everyone was rooting for him in the finals because he defied everyone's expectations by reaching the finals as Zerg, and because of his back-story. There are still some balance problems in SC2, with Zerg being underpowered (haven't won a significant tournament since the game dropped) and Terran overpowered.

[elbowglue]

I find my filco helps me pwn big time in SC2.  Zerg underpowered? Nah.
<- currently Rank 8 diamond league in 2v2 random (I only play zerg) woot!

(except when the filco accidentally dropped me to the deskop via windows key argh)

[Daniel Beaver]

Are we really going to argue about imbalances here?

In any case, the brown Filco 103 he's using is probably the best all-around keyboard you can buy. It is certainly a great gaming keyboard. Hopefully the SC2 fanboys will see it and start buying mechanical.

Oh, and Terran are way overpowered. Nerf Terran!

[ironman31]

It seems like this thread is going off topic, almost like it should be in the off topic section... o wait, there's already a thread there!



(Just kidding, I probably should have started it in the keyboard section in the first place)

[kriminal]

terran arent overpowered =\

play a map with one that has no immediate block spots and see what happens.
however i believe they are holding out on zerg till they get new units from the expansions.
which sucks really.

terrans where the underdogs in SC1

[Daniel Beaver]

terran arent overpowered =\

play a map with one that has no immediate block spots and see what happens.
however i believe they are holding out on zerg till they get new units from the expansions.
which sucks really.

terrans where the underdogs in SC1

To each his own. I feel that the trouble with ZvT is that the choices the Terran player makes control the flow of the game much more than anything the Zerg can do. But the game is young, and a year from now the strategies will look completely different, exactly as happened with Brood War.

And, of course, the expansions will add new units that will change everything. Imagine Brood War without Lurkers, Corsairs, Medics. Completely different game.

[sixty]

[iMav]

He needs a geekhack key.

[Fwiffo]

If anybody can inspire more SC2 fanboy equipment purchases, it's this guy:



It looks like the new standard for RTS keyboards is going to be a very good one.

[~Blood~]

just what I was going to get for RPG/RTS

This (cherry brown) btw is far better than blacks or reds for rts because you get a feedback that you actually actuated (what) the key.

the monitor is this one by the way: http://www.trigem.co.kr/tgproduct/monitor/ProductDetail.asp?p_seq=25050

its a 24" 16:9 with TN panel

im kind of satisfied that i seem to have been right with my choice

[elservo]

They would be more badass with blues.  Just sayin'.

[Konrad]

Is it racist to observe that Korean players dominate video games?

[elservo]

Nah, it's a huge part of the youth culture, and so many kids push the rest of the kids to play at a high level.  They've got pro leagues out there, they even get their own TV shows!  Pretty much the reason why the US sucks at soccer, because no one really pushes American players to play at a higher level except for a select few that get loaned out to International leagues.

[Konrad]

Konrad searches for a definition for this strange word, "soccer"
(Just joking.  Of course if Americans called it football like everyone else does then maybe they wouldn't suck so badly at the sport.)
 
I've seen some of that on news clips.  Kinda figured it was just another crazy Asian cultural hyperfad.  Those money prizes are actually quite serious at the top end!

[laden3]

What gang sign is she flashing there?

That Red ESC key sure stands out.

I think "he" not "she" will be more suitable here...

[Konrad]

lol, laden3 ... "she" is definitely more masculine than that pansy-looking keyboard guy, in that particular photo anyhow.

[Amp]

I've seen some of that on news clips.  Kinda figured it was just another crazy Asian cultural hyperfad.  Those money prizes are actually quite serious at the top end!

Oh man, don't get me started.

For the record, competitive gaming has more or less been traditionally been seperated into three core categories:

StarCraft (I -would- say RTS, but really? It's StarCraft)
FPS
Fighting Games

Fun facts:
The best players and teams for StarCraft usually hail from S.Korea
Fighting Games (except for Marvel vs. Capcom 2) are best represented by Japanese players
FPS games are usually dominated by Swedish players, with American players being a close second.

I could go on, but this stuff seems to be really boring and weird to non-super-nerds and apparently outright offensive to some of the older FOOTBAUGHL crowd.

[laden3]

lol, laden3 ... "she" is definitely more masculine than that pansy-looking keyboard guy, in that particular photo anyhow.

Apparently androgyny is the trend for them...

[Konrad]

Cultural/national preferences towards different expressions of simulated violence?
 
I actually like all three of those genres, especially RTS (and yes, that largely means SC1/2) ... But these competitors take it to extreme levels - and I can see why, given the prestige and prizes they win. Do they enjoy playing the games anymore?

[celery]

I imagine it's about the same as whether professional athletes still enjoy playing sports. They probably have to enjoy it, at some level--for example, even in e-sports, most professional Korean players train for 10+ hours a day but still make less money than in a "normal" job--but you need an element of discipline too.

[Konrad]

I suppose that manufacturers try to load all their latest gaming keyboards, gaming mice, gaming PCs, etc onto the top competitors? Sorta like Nike basketball and Nascar? Or is the money pool not quite deep enough for that yet?
 
[Edit]
 
roflcopters on the teamliquid forum talk ... people really worship this guy, he's a celebrity.  "omg, what kind of apple is that?"

[Fwiffo]

I think the "what kind of apple is that?" talk was humor oriented.

But players and teams do have sponsors pimping their warez. Razer in particular. There may have been some controversy as players seen with Filcos were actually sponsored by a different keyboard company.

[Amp]

roflcopters on the teamliquid forum talk ... people really worship this guy, he's a celebrity.  "omg, what kind of apple is that?"

well...



For those playing the home game, this is the audience for a Korean StarCraft match. Don't ask me to cite which match was happening for what tournament/league, I don't know.

For some people, competitive gaming is some serious eff'ing business. Korea, of course, takes it to a whole other level.

It's a real, bonafide sport to some (including me). The games have their versions of superstar celebrities (Fatal1ty, Daigo, and Boxer come to mind immediately) as well as the big prizes, and you also sometimes get moments like the CovLAN Quake 4 TDM finals (or I could post the Daigo Full Parry, HOLY POOPNUGGETS, The One and Only HeatoN, or the Devour 1v2, really any number of awesome moments in competitive gaming) to sweeten the deal for us people involved

And yes, the best of the best actually get involved in endorsement and sponsorship deals with these vendors of "gaming" gear, the two most generous of which in North America would be SteelSeries and Razer. Sometimes (possibly a lot more than even I would assume) these deals can get a little shaky in some ways, and awesome in others, case in point, rapha:

Shane "rapha" Hendrixon is probably the best Quake player in the world right now. He is currently sponsored by SK-Gaming, a franchise company in turn financially supported by companies including SteelSeries. Now of course when you have a sponsorship like that, you, as a player's sponsor, want the player to represent your brand and products right? So why wouldn't you want players to be using your gear? Well, rapha doesn't use a Kinzu, Xai, OR Ikari, even though SS want him to, he uses a Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1.0, but being the best player in the world, he has a bit more clout to throw around and say, "You know what? This is the mouse I use, this is the mouse I win with, asking me to use something I'm not used to is asking me to play with a handicap." So he gets away with it, but he has to put a Steelseries sticker on his Microsoft mouse (I've seen this in-person at QuakeCon), some players aren't so lucky, like when Razer started putting pressure on Cypher to start using the Cypher DeathAdder, granted that, IMO this was justified, since this was really the first time a player's actual name had been put on a product since Fatal1ty created his own brand/company, but Cypher's results definitely suffered because of it.

Man that last paragraph is kinda a cluster****, but you might be able to glean some sort of useful information from it, so I'll leave it be.

[elservo]

Let's not forget all the goldfarmers Korea employs for MMORPG's.  Those kids are ridiculous.  I'm surprised most of those kids survive the terms of their employment.  I know I'd die if I had to do something like that.  At my own hand.

[Konrad]

I take it this Asian goldfarming idea has become organized crime - most of the profits go to the middlemen, not to the kids doing the actual work?
 
I think the comparison to athletes is acceptable, even if most of 'em are 98lb weaklings.  Same deal with chess players.  To these people it's not a game anymore.

[~Blood~]

I really laugh at your perspective.

Koreans do not farm gold, those are chinese. You think Korea is a third world country? Nop.

And why would they not have fun playing SC2 anymore? Because you don't want them to have fun, so you can say that YOU at least have fun while playing? You don't have an advantage over them, of course they have fun while they play, they have fun winning prizes and beating other top 'athletes'.

Actually playing at the top is more fun than losing half of your games, you know.

Sometimes americans are seriously weird. Can't help it when all people tell you that USA is the best country in the world all the time I guess.

[Konrad]

That's a little confrontational. You'll note that I never said "Korean" or commented on "fun", and I certainly am not American and don't live in the USA.
 
You seem to mostly read details which fit into your expectations and opinions.

[~Blood~]

'Let's not forget all the goldfarmers Korea employs for MMORPG's. Those kids are ridiculous. I'm surprised most of those kids survive the terms of their employment. I know I'd die if I had to do something like that. At my own hand. '

at least he's american

I can't help but see envy in your posts

[Konrad]

lol, and you laugh at my perspective?  I think we come from different worlds.

[laden3]

That's a little confrontational. You'll note that I never said "Korean" or commented on "fun", and I certainly am not American and don't live in the USA.
 
You seem to mostly read details which fit into your expectations and opinions.

This happens when some people grew up in places where people keep telling them "The ****ing commies and mi gook people split our home into 2, the ****ing japs did biology class practicals on our women; we shouldn't buy their goods (e.g. Filco, Realforce), we are the strongest race in the world, Confucius was one of us, we invented Chinese medicine etc.":wink:

[WhiteRice]

[Konrad]

It might be obvious for someone to observe how Koreans are socially programmed, intolerant, ignorant, complacent sheep ... it's awkward to realize that we in North America act and think almost exactly the same.
:focus:
 
Anyhow, what these gaming kids do still amazes me. Don't mock the athlete comparison - American kids dream of being baseball stars, Canadian kids want to be hockey stars, Russian kids dream of being chessmasters, Korean kids wanna be video game champions. Helluva lot more future in any of these than being a fruit vendor on the street.
 
So what's the "peak" age for these kids? When do they start to lose their edge and burn out? Or is this phenomenon too new to tell yet?

[Hak Foo]

This happens when some people grew up in places where people keep telling them "The ****ing commies and mi gook people split our home into 2, the ****ing japs did biology class practicals on our women; we shouldn't buy their goods (e.g. Filco, Realforce), we are the strongest race in the world, Confucius was one of us, we invented Chinese medicine etc.":wink:

As opposed to the American programming:

"We invented modern republican government..." which has led us to a system where nothing moves without 60 votes of party bickering.   Apparently, at least, the Korean legislature has a long tradition of descending into physical violence, which would make debate so much more entertaining.

"We led the industrial revolution...." which is why they're making Hyundais in Alabama now, eh?

"We won World War II...." and failed to successfully subdue such massive world powers as Viet Nam and Cuba.

All things considered, I think both Koreas are very respectable nations; few have pulled themselves up from the bottom of the ladder as South Korea, and few are better suited to deal with the day after the oil runs out as North Korea.

[Fwiffo]

So what's the "peak" age for these kids? When do they start to lose their edge and burn out? Or is this phenomenon too new to tell yet?

Apparently, once you get married and start having kids, it's hard to play at a high level any more. Fruit Dealer's age is listed as "Age: 25 (Korean: 26)", which apparently means Koreans do not refer to their age in a zero-based way. He's considered a veteran, because he's been playing in the Starcraft 1 scene for quite a few years.

[Konrad]

Aha, that's a shame.
 
When I play these games I play cheap. No tactic too small, too dirty, too low, vile, selfish, devious, deceptive, treacherous, unfair, opportunistic, exploitive, or manipulative. Everything and everyone in the game is a tool or obstacle on the path toward my objectives and final victory. (Though there are limits - clean game engine with no hax - I don't play "nice" but I do play "fair" ... whine all ya like 'cuz you have all the same tools and opportunities as I do, not my fault if you suck and don't use what you're given as well as I do.)
 
I have my children to blame for teaching me some of my finest magnificent bastard tricks. I'm not saying that my kids are evil. Necessarily. I'm not saying that I was a kindhearted **** before having kids. Just saying that parenting adds a lot of useful "playstyles" to your mental toolbox.

[elservo]

I started an international incident!  *high fives all around*

[MyNameIsDan]

I wonder when was this placed on the website.

[Amp]

When I play these games I play cheap. No tactic too small, too dirty, too low, vile, selfish, devious, deceptive, treacherous, unfair, opportunistic, exploitive, or manipulative. Everything and everyone in the game is a tool or obstacle on the path toward my objectives and final victory.

David Sirlin, a highly accomplished Street Fighter player, and now game designer, once wrote a book on the mindset of the competitive, gamer, by which I mean high-level tournament goer, and what it takes to win. He called it, oddly enough, "Playing to Win". I really think you would enjoy it.

You could:

• Buy it on Amazon
  
• Buy it on Lulu (he claims he gets a better cut from this place)
  
• Read it for free Fully endorsed, one day he just said, paraphrased, "Yo, you don't have to pay monies to read my book anymore, if you don't want!"
  

RE: Age of competitive players.

This one is a bit hard to pin down. In fighting games, a huge chunk of the major developed talent now has been playing since Street Fighter 2. Alex Valle is one of the best players from the West Coast, and I'm sure he must be in his 30s now.

In Quake, Brian Flander (destrukt) is arguably one of the best in the world, with a wife, (I think) a kid, and well into his 30's, new blood has been pouring into the scene like Cypher (just hit his 20's?).

Don't ask me about StarCraft ages, I'm not that involved in that scene.

[Konrad]

Of course I play to win - we all do. Only a loser wouldn't. One can take pride in earning the bragging and taunting rights for pwnage, frags, and body count.
 
But the real reason I play is to have fun. Winning a good game is fun. Losing a good game is also fun. I prefer victory but if - despite my valiant efforts - I manage to get my ass handed to me after a 2-hour heartpounding tension-filled SC2 game ... that's fun. I might swear in rage because another player successfully cheap bastarded me, because he *****slapped me with insulting tactics, because minute after minute after minute he's stressing me out or forcing me into paranoia while systematically gaining/eroding some minute advantage, or somehow against all expectations manages to destroy my unstoppable multipronged superaggressive assault, or steal my resources, or dare to trespass upon the sacred soil of my homeland - but I'll have an interesting, involved, challenging game and sometimes even learn something new. That's fun.  Rising from the ashes and achieving a victory against seemingly impossible odds makes the win even more satisfying.
 
Yet there's no point in playing when you'll never win or never lose. That's why a game like Diablo 2 is fun (until it's finished), that's why multiplayer StarCraft is fun (there's plenty of people at "my" level, 'cuz I'm not a world-class top-tier competitor, lol), and that's why World of Warcraft is *not* fun (game is pointless, just an eye-candy version of ProgressQuest with a monthly subscription cost).
 
Just sayin'

[Amp]

It's still a pretty fascinating read on its own.

It was written for a time when having an actual competitive mindset when playing video games was taboo. It's really hard to explain.

It also goes into certain playing styles of the best Street Fighter players, comparing them to the best of the best Chess players.

[Konrad]

lol, I'm gonna go for the "read it for free" option, thanx for the suggestion.  I don't want to change my opinions about SC, I'm happy playing the game for entertainment instead of going hardcore.  Not really all that great at the game anyhow (just a fair margin above average in ratings), lol, those Korean kids would destroy me.

[~Blood~]

playing hardcore is the best entertainment

[zefrer]

It might be obvious for someone to observe how Koreans are socially programmed, intolerant, ignorant, complacent sheep ... it's awkward to realize that we in North America act and think almost exactly the same.
:focus:
 
Anyhow, what these gaming kids do still amazes me. Don't mock the athlete comparison - American kids dream of being baseball stars, Canadian kids want to be hockey stars, Russian kids dream of being chessmasters, Korean kids wanna be video game champions. Helluva lot more future in any of these than being a fruit vendor on the street.
 
So what's the "peak" age for these kids? When do they start to lose their edge and burn out? Or is this phenomenon too new to tell yet?

Well the people that started playing competitively at a really young age, 16-18, are now in their late 20s. How long they can keep being competitive remains to be seen, they're not old enough to tell yet.

There are a few people with families still playing competitively but not many. The thing is, if you are going to make it a full time job then you need to consistently be in the top 3 or you can't live off the prize money. To be in the top 3 consistently you need to practise practise practise, full time job hours.

But how do you get good enough to be in the top 3 in the first place without making it a full time job?

Esports at the moment is I think into the shamateur realm. There's enough money in prizes to live off if you're one of the best but not otherwise. When people start getting paid to practise, compete and etc there should be a massive boom in both skill level and money to be had in the game which would draw more people to it, like what has happened with other competitive games.

[Arc'xer]

I think Fruitdealer is using an alps not browns; Filco Zero.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159879

Test

Fruit

Comparison

(For some reason on the tester video the sound of the keyboard is easier to hear over 360p than 720P, guess the multi-channel is causing too much reverb for me.)

Not brown like some have mentioned. The Zero has the same blue-LEDs as the browns. You can hear the hollow metallic clockha-clockha-clockha sound made by them. Tester using the browns makes a pitter-patter sound with a very plastic tone(the chattering teeth machine gun sound as I like to call it, more so the blacks than the browns but similar).

[Arc'xer]

Maybe over there they fixed the issue by putting a better controller. Who knows maybe diatec is trying to revamp their alps line to bring a whole series of alps keyboards with other alps types as well.

Always been curious on the alps myself should have jumped on the 85 dollar despite the negatives.