Linears for typing?

[Entropia]

I'm ordering a Filco Majestouch 2 for Xmas and I still have not made a decision on the type of switch. When I first heard and read and watched and listened to the different MX switches in Youtube, I considered that blues are browns were the best, especially because I use my keyboard much more for typing rather than for gaming. However, the keyboard I wanted (the one I'm using now) was only available in blacks. Before this I had the chance to try browns, which I liked. I thought linear switches would disappoint me, but the more I use them for typing the more I like them. They're not very noisy and they feel right. What I like about blacks is the possibility of writing without bottoming out, which makes them very soft and nice to use. It's like the mechanism is more simple than tactile switches, which is something positive. Some complain that they're too strong and makes your fingers hurt and tired, but I've never experienced this at all. Maybe this is because before I had a Model M, which was also requires some force. Reds are the same than blacks but lighter. I think I could discard them because I don't want unwanted keypresses. I usually work with Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. and I rest my fingers on certain keys. Even with blacks I've pressed some keys unintentionally, so I suppose that would me much more frequent with reds. Blues... they must have a nice touch, but I simply don't like the way they sound. Maybe with think PBT caps the sound is noticeably improved? I suppose the safest choice would be browns. As I said, I  tried them in a Corsair K70 and they felt quite pleasing. What would be your advice? Oh, in some weeks I'll get a switches tester. I hope it will also help me with my decision.

[Saiph]

Just go with whichever switch type you enjoy the most. The whole "linears are for gaming" thing is very overblown. If you get a chance you should try a board with blues in a store though. Switch testers are somewhat useful but they're still drastically different form using a whole board.

[Entropia]

I know a tester is not the best solution, but here where I live the only mechanical keyboards you can find at local stores are razers and maybe some steelseries. The only solution is to order online. However, I don't really like the idea of ordering a keyboard just for testing switches and then returning it.

[TalkingTree]

Testers serve no purpose. You actually need to type on them to find your favourite one.
I might suggest to browse eBay for used keyboards. Cherry G80s are easily found with black and blues.
Eventually you might wanna order a batch of switches from China and make your DIY keyboard. There's plenty of Gaterons KS-3 (Cherry MX clones) on Aliexpress.

On a related note: I type on linears and I find them ok.

[chyros]

I used to not like linear switches at all. Until I tried green Alps. Now I've got a Zenith with green Alps as my typing keyboard, and typed my entire thesis on it.

Linear switches might seem simple compared to tactile and clicky ones, but don't be fooled. With tactile, it's about the tactile feel. With clicky, it's about the tactile feel and sound. With linears, it's about smoothness and weighting. Without the right weighting or with scratchy switches (such as most on the market today), linears will feel like crap. The right linear switches are divine.

[zslane]

If reds are too light for you, then blues and browns will be too light as well. Worse still, the subtle click of an MX blue will get lost in the bottoming out and upstroke noise. Maybe MX greens would be stiff enough that you wouldn't bottom out and you would only hear the click leaf, but off-the-shelf keyboards with MX greens are almost unheard of.

Maybe XMIT's Hall Effect switches with a really strong replacement spring (90g?) would be your ideal linear switch.

[jcoffin1981]

Testers serve no purpose. You actually need to type on them to find your favourite one.
I might suggest to browse eBay for used keyboards. Cherry G80s are easily found with black and blues.
Eventually you might wanna order a batch of switches from China and make your DIY keyboard. There's plenty of Gaterons KS-3 (Cherry MX clones) on Aliexpress.

On a related note: I type on linears and I find them ok.

I agree that testers are not that helpful to find a switch you like, but it's a starting point- it beats buying 4 or 5 boards at the same time.  You have a little bit of an idea of what the different styles of switches are like and what you may like to try.  They do however IMHO help you to eliminate a switch you don't like.  It took me about 3 keypresses on an MX blue to decide I will never want this switch.  You may also feel that a switch is too wobbly for you, or scratchy, etc. 

I will give an example that supports TalkingTree though:  I could hardly discern a difference on a tester between Brown and Clear (MX).  So I bought a board with Clears hearing lots of people rave about them- and I hated it.  I felt fatige after a single paragraph.  Much too stiff.

I like Gaterons, but ultimately I like MX Browns better.  People say you can barely feel the tactile bump, and this is true.  It's made me curious about trying a board with linears, but I'd hate to try and decide I hate it and then send it back.  It's too bad all the stores have only Microsoft and Logitech on display.

[Tuntematon]

It is a myth that tactile and/or auditory feedback is needed for an efficient and accurate typing experience. In reality, you type at such a speed that you aren't relying on these cues at all. You will adapt to the characteristics of whatever switch you are using, it's more about finding which one you like best. Weight is maybe the most important characteristic.

[pixelpusher]

I don't think you'll feel confident in your choice of best switch until you've tried a few of them out.  Maybe one of the new hot-swappable switch boards would be your starting point.  Once you find a switch you like in it then you can stay with it or order/craft a nicer board.

Honestly, I don't think any one switch is truly better for typing.  Although I will say from my experience that heavier switches do get irritating after a few pages of typing.  Something in the middle of the road (50-68g) is probably a safe bet.

[YoshiCaps]

Depends. Switch testers don't work beyond being something a cheap freind can call "fancy like your KB" ans i know because i bout a cooler mastr one to test novatouches and it was like "what the heck is this" but serisously, if browns, reds and blues are too light, blacks, greens and clears might be better for you. Since you said it would be good to have a tactile non click browns with the stiffness of blacks.

[zslane]

On the other hand, if he wants a tactile switch that's actually good (very good in fact), then a 55g Topre board might be a better choice. 

[pixelpusher]

But isn't this similar to asking a forum what the best fruit is.

"Hey guys, I'm looking for some great fruit to eat and I'm wondering what the best fruit is." 

You can read about fruit all day long, watch videos to see what it looks and sounds like when you eat it, get opinions about what it tastes like... etc.

Some people will point to the apple and say "look, its a mainstay for a reason.  You'll find an apple in every grocery store you visit."  But some people will insist it's the banana.  Or then what about the long forgotten date or persimmon.  You can overthink it all day long.  But in reality... don't you enjoy eating all types of fruit?

Jump in, get your board with browns.  It's the apple of the fruit world.  It's truly good.  Branch out down the road.  It's a heck of a lot of fun!

[zslane]

But isn't this similar to asking a forum what the best fruit is.

In a way, you make a very good point. Asking what the "best linear" switch is is simply too vague a request. There are too many factors to consider when making recommendations. A more useful question might be, "What is the smoothest, quietest linear that takes MX keycaps?" That helps narrow things down considerably. It also helps establish some concrete, measurable parameters. The "smoothest" switch would be the one with the least amount of measurable friction; the quietest switch would be the one which registers the least amount of sound (lowest dB?) when bottoming out and returning on the upstroke; etc.

Now, when it comes to tactile switches, MX browns aren't tactile enough to be called "tactile", IMO. It would be like someone asking what the finest wine would be to try and offering up a wine cooler as the answer.

[chyros]

But isn't this similar to asking a forum what the best fruit is.

Very good point, everyone already knows pineapple is the best anyway!

[alienman82]

removed.

[Tom_Kazansky]

I'm ordering a Filco Majestouch 2 for Xmas and I still have not made a decision on the type of switch. When I first heard and read and watched and listened to the different MX switches in Youtube, I considered that blues are browns were the best, especially because I use my keyboard much more for typing rather than for gaming. However, the keyboard I wanted (the one I'm using now) was only available in blacks. Before this I had the chance to try browns, which I liked. I thought linear switches would disappoint me, but the more I use them for typing the more I like them. They're not very noisy and they feel right. What I like about blacks is the possibility of writing without bottoming out, which makes them very soft and nice to use. It's like the mechanism is more simple than tactile switches, which is something positive. Some complain that they're too strong and makes your fingers hurt and tired, but I've never experienced this at all. Maybe this is because before I had a Model M, which was also requires some force. Reds are the same than blacks but lighter. I think I could discard them because I don't want unwanted keypresses. I usually work with Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. and I rest my fingers on certain keys. Even with blacks I've pressed some keys unintentionally, so I suppose that would me much more frequent with reds. Blues... they must have a nice touch, but I simply don't like the way they sound. Maybe with think PBT caps the sound is noticeably improved? I suppose the safest choice would be browns. As I said, I  tried them in a Corsair K70 and they felt quite pleasing. What would be your advice? Oh, in some weeks I'll get a switches tester. I hope it will also help me with my decision.

if there is a shop near where you live, I recommend you to go and test the boards yourself.

about which switch to use, its very... personal, so I will write my opinion here:
- brown switch: I can hardly feel the "tactile", that's a no for me.
- red switch: yeah... linear, too light for me.
- blue switch: I like them very much but I have to "mod" them a bit: replace spring with 62g ones.
- black: another linear but heavier, I quite like this, I feel just right for my hand, I don't bottom-out like red.
- topre: I have not use the "real" topre but they're too similar to membrance and they're expensive, a no for me.

But isn't this similar to asking a forum what the best fruit is.

Very good point, everyone already knows pineapple is the best anyway!

heh, you don't like watermelon? 

[chyros]

But isn't this similar to asking a forum what the best fruit is.

Very good point, everyone already knows pineapple is the best anyway!

heh, you don't like watermelon? 

Watermelon is nice, but it's very, well, watery. Pineapple has much more flavour.

Also, it's the only fruit that eats you back!

[PollandAkuma]

Linear switches might seem simple compared to tactile and clicky ones, but don't be fooled. With tactile, it's about the tactile feel. With clicky, it's about the tactile feel and sound. With linears, it's about smoothness and weighting. Without the right weighting or with scratchy switches (such as most on the market today), linears will feel like crap. The right linear switches are divine.

This is so true! That's why one can never stop with just one board...

[Frenky]

I didn't particularly like my mx reds for typing until I put PBT keycaps on them - now I absolutely love them! Now I understand what they mean with "buttery smooth". Perhaps Entropia should try different kinds of caps as well?

[PollandAkuma]

I didn't particularly like my mx reds for typing until I put PBT keycaps on them - now I absolutely love them! Now I understand what they mean with "buttery smooth". Perhaps Entropia should try different kinds of caps as well?

Caps do really make a difference. SA with stock MX clears do not feel good. However, Cherry profile does.

[Entropia]

One thing that makes me think that blacks shouldn't be bad for writing is that it's the switch used by Maltron keyboards, which are very expensive ergonomic models specifically made for writing.

Also, is it true that browns tend of change over time and that after some time of use they start to lose their tactile feeling and become something like reds?

[Entropia]

I didn't particularly like my mx reds for typing until I put PBT keycaps on them - now I absolutely love them! Now I understand what they mean with "buttery smooth". Perhaps Entropia should try different kinds of caps as well?

Caps do really make a difference. SA with stock MX clears do not feel good. However, Cherry profile does.

Yes, I will not order my Majestouch 2 until I have a good set of PBT keycaps for it.

[KatzenKinder]

It really does take the perfect weighting. I started on stock browns, and then moved to reds. Found the reds to be way too light so I went to blacks, which were too heavy. Tried 62g lubed which were still a tad light, now I'm on 65g lubed linear zealios and they're the perfect balance of resistance and smoothness. Just gotta find what's perfect for you

[Puddsy]

I wrote the first draft of a novel on (largely) MX reds. It was good.

[czarek]

To me Vintage MX Black with springs from MX Blue (so effectively same weighting as MX Red) is the most comfortable switch. I use this combination with PBT DCS keycaps in my ErgoDox and it feels fantastic.
You can see me typing on this keyboard here:

It's pretty old though. Soon after making it I started using leather wrist rests from Noko's leatherworks with it. I also changed the case for a compact PVC one.
But please note it's not my daily driver any more. Until very recently my daily driver was silent, weighted RF board. It feels perfect to type and game on, I just can't stand bad quality paint on the case which started fading in a first month of owning it. Also the keycaps finish is not as nice as it used to be in earlier RF boards. Currently I use Filcos with MX Blues and MX Reds depending on my mood. Stock MX Red is a bit scratchy but it has its charm. MX Blue was always one of my favourite swithces and still is. I like its lightness, subtle tactility and actually prefer its sound to Alps and BS.

[pr0ximity]

Bottoming out is the best tactile feedback there is

[PollandAkuma]

Stock blacks are indeed too heavy, I think 62g would be for me

[Urbi]

I have a Raptor K1 since more than 10 years on my main computer. I like blacks for everything.

I have played ~10k hours on this keyboard and wrote every single paper during my studies with it.

IMO it is a matter of personal taste.

[jcoffin1981]

Bottoming out is the best tactile feedback there is

I have back, and elbow, and wrist, and finger pain and numbness from a setup that is most definitely not ergonomic, so this I try not to do.  But when typing fast it's hard not to.

[pr0ximity]

Bottoming out is the best tactile feedback there is

I have back, and elbow, and wrist, and finger pain and numbness from a setup that is most definitely not ergonomic, so this I try not to do.  But when typing fast it's hard not to.

O-rings would make things less harsh, might be worth it. Shorter throw as well, at the expense of a less crisp bottom-out, but that may be desirable for your finger pain if the impact is a problem..