Sorry about the higher prices, having presort and plastic tray package from GMK adds a bit. Groupbuy fee is also a little more to help cover additional costs of using boxes for shipping instead of bubble mailers.
Base set is based on the FIRST MX model, the G80-0312 and therefore has the original bitshift international layout. There is a '@ or |\ key to use in place of ~` depending if you are using ANSI or ISO configuration... or in case of HHKB style some may use both.
Yes the numpad enter key will look just like that, it was used on the boards produced for Amiga.
Inspiration was pulled from the following:
Cherry G80-0312Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/o4BjD.jpg)
Commodore G80-0499Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/0e30fc6f.jpg)
NCR G80-0528Show Image(http://utensilia.tk/urzadzenia/ncr_3299-k420-v002/1.jpg)
Amiga G80-0777Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/VfBVXv9.jpg)
Cherry DEC cloneShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/I2qpug6.jpg)
Adler DarioShow Image(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/10313)
Take some layout, legends, and colorways from here and there and blended it all together to make something 'new' instead of doing a straight up repro.
Sorry about the higher prices, having presort and plastic tray package from GMK adds a bit. Groupbuy fee is also a little more to help cover additional costs of using boxes for shipping instead of bubble mailers.
The color pack doesn't hit me much :(
And why are there another |\ key in the mod pack?
Damn this' kind of quick, do we have a deadline for payment already? :(
Wait so can you clarify something, if you order space bars for $6 you get two space bars (1x 6.25 and 1x 7u) in 2 random colors? Or will a single color be decided on by GMK and all of them will be that one color? Or will each space bar be a different color and you just get 1 of each size?
Sorry if my wording is a bit unclear.
Right, one of each size spacebar and each order could be any color(s). Last time we had several colors and I filled the orders with as many different colors as I could for those that ordered multiples until I ran out of that color. Some colors we had many of, some not very many of so some orders were not as diverse as others.
Wait so can you clarify something, if you order space bars for $6 you get two space bars (1x 6.25 and 1x 7u) in 2 random colors? Or will a single color be decided on by GMK and all of them will be that one color? Or will each space bar be a different color and you just get 1 of each size?
Sorry if my wording is a bit unclear.
there will be a few random colors
it'll be like the last one, but with different colors
in other words, 1 6.25x and one 7x each in a different color
Right, one of each size spacebar and each order could be any color(s). Last time we had several colors and I filled the orders with as many different colors as I could for those that ordered multiples until I ran out of that color. Some colors we had many of, some not very many of so some orders were not as diverse as others.
Sorry no. Sets will come presorted as shown. Between the base sets and the mods add on, I am sure you will be able to get what you need off others that won't need them for anything.
ORDER EDITS: If you save the link you are given at the end you 'should' be able to change it any time. If not, just PM me and ask for whichever changes.
Right, one of each size spacebar and each order could be any color(s). Last time we had several colors and I filled the orders with as many different colors as I could for those that ordered multiples until I ran out of that color. Some colors we had many of, some not very many of so some orders were not as diverse as others.
It's a bit frustrating to finally see a GMK set with HHKB support only to see that we've lost *normal-layout* support. I will think long and hard about this and if I decide not to get the base set I will probably still get the mod pack and/or the color pack.What's considered "normal-layout" support?
It's a bit frustrating to finally see a GMK set with HHKB support only to see that we've lost *normal-layout* support. I will think long and hard about this and if I decide not to get the base set I will probably still get the mod pack and/or the color pack.What's considered "normal-layout" support?
Is the hhkb support off?
And what about adding a color-matched esc to the mods set?
Man, I was saving for a new Magic deck. But damn is this set awesome! :-\
Sir, will 6.25x spacebar and 7x spacebar come with the same color?
How many colors in total will you have? (so that we will know the minimum number of spacebar add-ons to pick)
Man, I was saving for a new Magic deck. But damn is this set awesome! :-\
People really play Magic? Interesting.
Sir, will 6.25x spacebar and 7x spacebar come with the same color?
How many colors in total will you have? (so that we will know the minimum number of spacebar add-ons to pick)
no
don't know yet, you won't get one of everything no matter how many you order, i ordered 4Man, I was saving for a new Magic deck. But damn is this set awesome! :-\
People really play Magic? Interesting.
it's fun, you should try it
Sir, will 6.25x spacebar and 7x spacebar come with the same color?
How many colors in total will you have? (so that we will know the minimum number of spacebar add-ons to pick)
no
don't know yet, you won't get one of everything no matter how many you order, i ordered 4
HmmmmSir, will 6.25x spacebar and 7x spacebar come with the same color?
How many colors in total will you have? (so that we will know the minimum number of spacebar add-ons to pick)
no
don't know yet, you won't get one of everything no matter how many you order, i ordered 4
These are GMK dyesubs right?
Sir, will 6.25x spacebar and 7x spacebar come with the same color?
How many colors in total will you have? (so that we will know the minimum number of spacebar add-ons to pick)
no
don't know yet, you won't get one of everything no matter how many you order, i ordered 4
What do you mean, he wouldn't get one of everything no matter how many he orders?
These are GMK dyesubs right?
No, GMK caps are always doubleshot.
Ivan will probably be sorting the spacebars but he has no control over the amount made in each color, he can only ask for a total number in each size. The reason for this is because they agreed to use leftover plastic to make them up, that's why we're not required to meet MOQ on them.
There may be some available that match the spacebars in the full set but again they'd probably be using leftover granular so there is no way of knowing how many.
So tempting..
A few things.Why is the legend color for the Esc a lighter grey than the rest of the Mod Pack's?
Also, any chance of adding a yellow Esc key with orange legends?
Lastly any particular reason for having the color pack start keys says 'start' rather than the windows logo? Would prefer the logo is all..
Within the color pack, I'm only interested in the "start" buttons. If you would like to buy the color pack and sell me just the start buttons, I'll be more than happy to split the cost with you!
Within the color pack, I'm only interested in the "start" buttons. If you would like to buy the color pack and sell me just the start buttons, I'll be more than happy to split the cost with you!
Within the color pack, I'm only interested in the "start" buttons. If you would like to buy the color pack and sell me just the start buttons, I'll be more than happy to split the cost with you!
You can buy my start keys. I have no boards with 1.25u and I have no windows machines.
Ivan, you've moistened my loins yet again with this fantastic all GMK GB :thumb: .
LOVE the colours, even though you're using Gatsie's Sh1te Logo it still is a superb rendition of 1985 and I need this one badly. I was lucky because someone here notified me via PM to your Group Buy which I have to thank because I would of went into 2015 without ever knowing anything about this special kit.
I sure hope this one goes through to the factory in the new year, have some keyboards that would be elevated beyond stylish, with these installed.
Ivan, I just realized something, the modpack does not include 1800 layout keys!
I'm not sure if it's too late to request something, but would it be possible to add:
1x R2 1u "-" key
1x R3 1u "+" key
So I can actually do a full 1800 layout with a BSP set :)Show Image(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HRH8e9YQF_Q/UuxeHuskYfI/AAAAAAAAMiI/W7q804QX6Jg/s1600/2014_02_01_113548.JPG)
Hope it's possible, just two extra keys!
Ivan, I just realized something, the modpack does not include 1800 layout keys!
I'm not sure if it's too late to request something, but would it be possible to add:
1x R2 1u "-" key
1x R3 1u "+" key
So I can actually do a full 1800 layout with a BSP set :)
Hope it's possible, just two extra keys!
What's the point? Those boards are already readily available with beige double-shots. Sorry I know it might only be two caps but that's what everyone says, if Ivan adds caps every time someone requests it these sets will cost a fortune.
Ivan, I just realized something, the modpack does not include 1800 layout keys!
I'm not sure if it's too late to request something, but would it be possible to add:
1x R2 1u "-" key
1x R3 1u "+" key
So I can actually do a full 1800 layout with a BSP set :)Show Image(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HRH8e9YQF_Q/UuxeHuskYfI/AAAAAAAAMiI/W7q804QX6Jg/s1600/2014_02_01_113548.JPG)
Hope it's possible, just two extra keys!
What's the point? Those boards are already readily available with beige double-shots. Sorry I know it might only be two caps but that's what everyone says, if Ivan adds caps every time someone requests it these sets will cost a fortune.
Well, the point of it would be so that a full G8X-1800 layout can be achieved, using a BSP set.This GB is not for BSP keys. It is for GMK doubleshot keys, which are basically identical to Cherry doubleshots from 1800s.
That said, I understand your concerns, and it is definitely not something everyone would want, and would add costs.
Personally, I would be using them to use a BSP set for a Lightsaver layout, so I can squeeze an extra key in there, while having a complete/authentic G8X-1800 layoutShow Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=53942.0;attach=71791;image)
(This one is missing the proper arrow key layout, but the numpad is the focus! Also the + and - key locations are wrong, should be swapped)Show Image(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3709/12515335004_b0191d0691_b.jpg)
While Cherry G8X-1800 will already have these keys, I assume that a large number of people will be using the mod pack with BSP Cyrillic, Peacock, Olivetti, etc sets, and would appreciate having these two extra keys.
I feel that the purpose of this mod pack is to allow people to complete BSP sets, and to an extent, it already includes enough keys to covers 99% of what people would want to use it with, the 1% missing being the 1800 layout.
Well, the point of it would be so that a full G8X-1800 layout can be achieved, using a BSP set.This GB is not for BSP keys. It is for GMK doubleshot keys, which are basically identical to Cherry doubleshots from 1800s.
That said, I understand your concerns, and it is definitely not something everyone would want, and would add costs.
Personally, I would be using them to use a BSP set for a Lightsaver layout, so I can squeeze an extra key in there, while having a complete/authentic G8X-1800 layoutShow Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=53942.0;attach=71791;image)
(This one is missing the proper arrow key layout, but the numpad is the focus! Also the + and - key locations are wrong, should be swapped)Show Image(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3709/12515335004_b0191d0691_b.jpg)
While Cherry G8X-1800 will already have these keys, I assume that a large number of people will be using the mod pack with BSP Cyrillic, Peacock, Olivetti, etc sets, and would appreciate having these two extra keys.
I feel that the purpose of this mod pack is to allow people to complete BSP sets, and to an extent, it already includes enough keys to covers 99% of what people would want to use it with, the 1% missing being the 1800 layout.
Ivan, I just realized something, the modpack does not include 1800 layout keys!
I'm not sure if it's too late to request something, but would it be possible to add:
1x R2 1u "-" key
1x R3 1u "+" key
So I can actually do a full 1800 layout with a BSP set :)Show Image(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HRH8e9YQF_Q/UuxeHuskYfI/AAAAAAAAMiI/W7q804QX6Jg/s1600/2014_02_01_113548.JPG)
Hope it's possible, just two extra keys!
What's the point? Those boards are already readily available with beige double-shots. Sorry I know it might only be two caps but that's what everyone says, if Ivan adds caps every time someone requests it these sets will cost a fortune.
Instead of including all those blank caps (useless imo) and add some of those that people actually want? Especially those blank windowed caps..:S
Any chance to include windowed caps at all (caps lock, scroll, numlock, etc)?
What I'm saying is.. You could achieve the same result with a Cherry 1800 set, since the keys are identical to GMK ones.
P.S. If you happen to know where I could pick up a G8X-1800 in classic beige with thick caps, do let me know :)
P.S. If you happen to know where I could pick up a G8X-1800 in classic beige with thick caps, do let me know :)
BAM!
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.26.5sQ7ki&id=16620743597&ns=1&abbucket=15#detail
P.S. If you happen to know where I could pick up a G8X-1800 in classic beige with thick caps, do let me know :)
BAM!
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.26.5sQ7ki&id=16620743597&ns=1&abbucket=15#detail
WELL THEN... thank you! :)
P.S. If you happen to know where I could pick up a G8X-1800 in classic beige with thick caps, do let me know :)
BAM!
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.26.5sQ7ki&id=16620743597&ns=1&abbucket=15#detail
WELL THEN... thank you! :)
No worries mate, I spend wayyyy too much time there so my TaoBao fu is strong :)
What keys are you looking for? I'm interested in buying the set tooP.S. If you happen to know where I could pick up a G8X-1800 in classic beige with thick caps, do let me know :)
BAM!
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.26.5sQ7ki&id=16620743597&ns=1&abbucket=15#detail
WELL THEN... thank you! :)
No worries mate, I spend wayyyy too much time there so my TaoBao fu is strong :)
Buying the set from Taobao is a solution, but at a cost of $50+ for two keys.
Ivan's mod pack already includes a lot of unusual keys, which I believe is for the sake of completing layouts (it can do HHKB/Viper, convert ISO to ANSI, ANSI to ISO, and a lot more), so it's not that strange to have the 1800 keys. Would we consider adding two more keys (for a small amount of money), for the sake of completion and having yet another option?
Well, the point of it would be so that a full G8X-1800 layout can be achieved, using a BSP set.This GB is not for BSP keys. It is for GMK doubleshot keys, which are basically identical to Cherry doubleshots from the 1800s.
That said, I understand your concerns, and it is definitely not something everyone would want, and would add costs.
Personally, I would be using them to use a BSP set for a Lightsaver layout, so I can squeeze an extra key in there, while having a complete/authentic G8X-1800 layoutShow Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=53942.0;attach=71791;image)
(This one is missing the proper arrow key layout, but the numpad is the focus! Also the + and - key locations are wrong, should be swapped)Show Image(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3709/12515335004_b0191d0691_b.jpg)
While Cherry G8X-1800 will already have these keys, I assume that a large number of people will be using the mod pack with BSP Cyrillic, Peacock, Olivetti, etc sets, and would appreciate having these two extra keys.
I feel that the purpose of this mod pack is to allow people to complete BSP sets, and to an extent, it already includes enough keys to covers 99% of what people would want to use it with, the 1% missing being the 1800 layout.
Whoa. I was actually looking for this today. How do you buy this though? Hahaha.P.S. If you happen to know where I could pick up a G8X-1800 in classic beige with thick caps, do let me know :)
BAM!
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.26.5sQ7ki&id=16620743597&ns=1&abbucket=15#detail
Sorry about the higher prices, having presort and plastic tray package from GMK adds a bit. Groupbuy fee is also a little more to help cover additional costs of using boxes for shipping instead of bubble mailers.
So about the spacebars we have to commit before knowing the colors ?
Or can we add them when be know which one are produced ?
Pre sort And Plastic Tray???
Awesome!!!!
Are these plastic trays like EK sells for keycap collections?
Pre sort And Plastic Tray???
Awesome!!!!
Are these plastic trays like EK sells for keycap collections?
Yes, they are similar to those EK has. They are actually a bit larger which is a good thing or these big groupbuy kits will all the 'extra' keys wouldn't fit inside them :))
(Attachment Link)
Pre sort And Plastic Tray???
Awesome!!!!
Are these plastic trays like EK sells for keycap collections?
Yes, they are similar to those EK has. They are actually a bit larger which is a good thing or these big groupbuy kits will all the 'extra' keys wouldn't fit inside them :))
(Attachment Link)
He REALLY does not know?Ivan, you've moistened my loins yet again with this fantastic all GMK GB :thumb: .
LOVE the colours, even though you're using Gatsie's Sh1te Logo it still is a superb rendition of 1985 and I need this one badly. I was lucky because someone here notified me via PM to your Group Buy which I have to thank because I would of went into 2015 without ever knowing anything about this special kit.
I sure hope this one goes through to the factory in the new year, have some keyboards that would be elevated beyond stylish, with these installed.
You are most welcome Elrick ^_^ :thumb:
Hi,
so these keycaps are Cherry profile, right?
Is it possible to just buy the modifier keys I need, instead of the whole set?
I also need a 6.25 Spacebar in white. Is this possible? (without buying a trillion spacebars and hoping to get a white one?)
Sorry for the stupid questions, this would be my first GB. I'm so excited :D
If anyone is buying the mod pack and doesn't want a R3 Control please let me know! :thumb:That's pretty much the only thing I'm buying it for; that and the 1u backspace.
:'( :'(If anyone is buying the mod pack and doesn't want a R3 Control please let me know! :thumb:That's pretty much the only thing I'm buying it for; that and the 1u backspace.
If anyone is buying the mod pack and doesn't want a R3 Control please let me know! :thumb:
Hi Ivan, is it possible to let keycap orders to be pre-sorted in gmk zip bags instead of this plastic tray?
Because this tray is quite long and might get charged of volumetric weight with more cost for international shipping if amount of keycaps are large.
;) Hope we got the different option or can vote on one.
Ivan I just placed an order, but here is a few question regarding the set u have put up.
1. Why we have blanks 1.5? legended ctrl and alt are not enough? ( I understand that the 1.25 blanks are wanted for the people that dislike the win logos)
2. I understand that u want to match this set to whatever old keyboards use to exist, but whats the point when the legends are incorrect to the current keyboards we have?
3. Why extra " Enter" key for the numberbad
4. Why extra " 0 " for the number pad
5. Why 3 extra arrow keys clusters?
6. Why the extra line feed key?
7. The " . " key for the numberpad is also extra ( forgot to circle it in the picture)
After all calculated we are entering close to 160-170 price tag for a set that has fishy legends, F row keys changed with some numbers.... not the typical GMK.... extra duplicate keys for no reason. Thanks for running the GB but if I'm not mistaken u started the Dolch GB overbloated at first with tons of unecesary keys and high prices and the GB went into halt. Its like your building the GMK sets for ur taste only and not considering what other people think.
I would like to hear what iss the opinion of the GH's here about this set. Posting pic of the few issues I have with the set.
...
Ivan I just placed an order, but here is a few question regarding the set u have put up.
1. Why we have blanks 1.5? legended ctrl and alt are not enough? ( I understand that the 1.25 blanks are wanted for the people that dislike the win logos)
2. I understand that u want to match this set to whatever old keyboards use to exist, but whats the point when the legends are incorrect to the current keyboards we have?
3. Why extra " Enter" key for the numberbad
4. Why extra " 0 " for the number pad
5. Why 3 extra arrow keys clusters?
6. Why the extra line feed key?
7. The " . " key for the numberpad is also extra ( forgot to circle it in the picture)
After all calculated we are entering close to 160-170 price tag for a set that has fishy legends, F row keys changed with some numbers.... not the typical GMK.... extra duplicate keys for no reason. Thanks for running the GB but if I'm not mistaken u started the Dolch GB overbloated at first with tons of unecesary keys and high prices and the GB went into halt. Its like your building the GMK sets for ur taste only and not considering what other people think.
I would like to hear what iss the opinion of the GH's here about this set. Posting pic of the few issues I have with the set.
I'm yet to see picture of a keyboard that has the circled numbers F row keys instead F1-F12.
Take a look at this post, Ivan explains the motivation behind the set: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66364.msg1553635#msg1553635
I'm yet to see picture of a keyboard that has the circled numbers F row keys instead F1-F12.Take a look at this post, Ivan explains the motivation behind the set: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66364.msg1553635#msg1553635
You were literally just linked there.Show Image(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/10313)
This buy is about pure nostalgia and offering a lot of legends that are quite rare and haven't been made in decades. It will be a one time thing. I wanted to do it earlier for the 30th anniversary of MX keyboards. If it's not your thing, thats fine.
This buy is about pure nostalgia and offering a lot of legends that are quite rare and haven't been made in decades. It will be a one time thing. I wanted to do it earlier for the 30th anniversary of MX keyboards. If it's not your thing, thats fine.
Is it possible that you will do a reversed classic beige like this in the future with the same layout as you did with dolch ?
This buy is about pure nostalgia and offering a lot of legends that are quite rare and haven't been made in decades. It will be a one time thing. I wanted to do it earlier for the 30th anniversary of MX keyboards. If it's not your thing, thats fine.
Is it possible that you will do a reversed classic beige like this in the future with the same layout as you did with dolch ?
Photeq might be making the classic one...I think!
Just curious, does anyone know which keyboards originally used the strike-through "0" on the numpad?
Just took a look at a lot of my Cherry/GMK stuff and none of it has it. It is definitely interesting, and I like that Ivan included on the Dolch set.
No plans currently to run something like this again any time soon. Will be focusing on new colorways in future buys mostly with legends that adhere to modern standards.How are the numbers going for the mod pack?
That is exactly why there are so many keys in the modifiers kit. Due to how many different shades Cherry used over the 30 years, chances are it won't match most... it will match some so it just depends on what you have. Better to replace all of them in whole key sections that to have something that looks like a patchwork.Come on people!
Only 40-50 orders for each thing so far. Long ways to go still.
Add ~15 order for each set from enjoyclick.cao mu da da zao!
Definitely not missing this one.
Or Sasha Grey and Lily Labeau. :PDefinitely not missing this one.
Same here, missing out on a GMK order session is like refusing a night out with Sasha Grey (which lists you as some kind of weird masochist, denying yourself such a perfect treat) 8) .
Or Sasha Grey and Lily Labeau. :p
Do you guys think that we can reach the GMK MOQ by the end of this GB?
I know with youngsters here on this forum everything is about instant gratification meaning they want something bright and colourful to capture their attention. What stands the test of time are traditional GMK colours because that keyboard with these colourways last forever. They do become true 'CLASSICS' and that keyboard never loses it's timeless appeal to the traditionalist :thumb: .
Do GMK keycaps wear the same way as other ABS plastic key caps?
Do GMK keycaps wear the same way as other ABS plastic key caps?
Opinions vary but personally I still haven't noticed any shine on mine in the year I've had them. I'd have a hard time believing Signature Plastics caps would last that long with daily use.
Perhaps the absence of shine only is possible if not used regularly? How often did you use the ones you have had before they do start to show shine at all?Do GMK keycaps wear the same way as other ABS plastic key caps?
Opinions vary but personally I still haven't noticed any shine on mine in the year I've had them. I'd have a hard time believing Signature Plastics caps would last that long with daily use.
I've got several Beige Originals and non of them have even started to develop any shine at all. The oldest ones are from 14 years ago and still look like new, who would think simple ABS could last that long without even showing any wear.
Suspect it's the original German manufactured sets that were done right in the first place, they always do everything perfect without taking any shortcuts, when it comes to making anything within their borders.
Perhaps the absence of shine only is possible if not used regularly? How often did you use the ones you have had before they do start to show shine at all?Do GMK keycaps wear the same way as other ABS plastic key caps?
Opinions vary but personally I still haven't noticed any shine on mine in the year I've had them. I'd have a hard time believing Signature Plastics caps would last that long with daily use.
I've got several Beige Originals and non of them have even started to develop any shine at all. The oldest ones are from 14 years ago and still look like new, who would think simple ABS could last that long without even showing any wear.
Suspect it's the original German manufactured sets that were done right in the first place, they always do everything perfect without taking any shortcuts, when it comes to making anything within their borders.
That sounds pretty amazing. It would be consistent hours of typing? Is it coding or actual typing you use it for?
Long time lurker here, made an account to get in on (at least) the mod pack for this GB. Really liking the flexibility with the mods.
Sorry if this has been asked already but I didn't spot it. On the image for the modifier pack in the first post, it looks like the legends on the two longest shift keys are a slightly lighter colour than the other legends. Is this correct or is that just the way that it looks in the image?
At this rate I think we might just be getting space bars...
We can hit MOQ? I have little worry
That sure happen because it's over hit MOQ ha haAt this rate I think we might just be getting space bars...
We can hit MOQ? I have little worry
IF we couldn't reach the MOQ, the MOQ standard will be lower to make this group happen?
IF we couldn't reach the MOQ, the MOQ standard will be lower to make this group happen?
no. that's not how things work. if we don't hit MOQ, then nothing gets made and no money will change hands.
IF we couldn't reach the MOQ, the MOQ standard will be lower to make this group happen?
no. that's not how things work. if we don't hit MOQ, then nothing gets made and no money will change hands.
The spacebars should still be made since MoQ for that isn't dependent on the main kit?
IF we couldn't reach the MOQ, the MOQ standard will be lower to make this group happen?
no. that's not how things work. if we don't hit MOQ, then nothing gets made and no money will change hands.
The spacebars should still be made since MoQ for that isn't dependent on the main kit?
Anything that make the MOQ will be made. Though I will be severely disappointed if all that is are spacebars. I may extend out a couple more week, maybe it will help since so close to holidays.I definitely think that would be helpful a few more weeks won't hurt anything.
Anything that make the MOQ will be made. Though I will be severely disappointed if all that is are spacebars. I may extend out a couple more week, maybe it will help since so close to holidays.I definitely think that would be helpful a few more weeks won't hurt anything.
Anything that make the MOQ will be made. Though I will be severely disappointed if all that is are spacebars. I may extend out a couple more week, maybe it will help since so close to holidays.I understand that u always wanna bring something different to people. but what about change the legends back to normal? since the inverse beige color is already "something different". and I'm pretty sure that lots of people are interested in the color, but not the legends.
The main set may be splited in modifiers and alphas, and the modifier set broken down into smaller subsets so prices may be reduced.
Will be disappointing if we don't get MOQ, maybe we need people in here to hype this up like the GMK Dolch was hyped :P Ivan, if this won't get MOQ, will future potential sets also include r0 and r5?
Sorry, just my name :)
edit: you're talking about �sgeir Trausti, the Icelandic musician? Well he has the same name as me, we're both from Iceland :)
I'm just wodering why there're so many people only want a spacebar.You'll never be able to get GMK spacebars any where else for $3 each, I bought 20 last time and still put my name down for more.
I'm just wodering why there're so many people only want a spacebar.Spacebars are cool, I wasn't around for the first GB but I managed to get all the crazy colored spacebars. A crazy colored spacebar makes the keyboard way cooler.
I'm just wodering why there're so many people only want a spacebar.You'll never be able to get GMK spacebars any where else for $3 each, I bought 20 last time and still put my name down for more.
Hell I traded a couple of GMK spacebars and some winkeyless mods for a Mint Gum clack earlier this year
I don't like to drag things out. If something isn't going to make it in a reasonable time frame, odds are it never will. If it's close to MOQ I would probably make a short extension, but it all depends.
Ooh man, I can't believe the mod pack is only at 80. :( I'm willing to double my order...
For those that want to know if it will match old sets... post clear well lit picture with proper color calibration and I will tell you. Even still, at the worst case you will have a different tone on the nav and function row section... which will look like on purpose and is still fine in my opinion.
The mod pack is definitely the best GMK pack to have ever come out.
It has been demanded many times by countless people. Would be a shame if it didn't make MOQ, get on it people!
The Full set has everything you would need to fit 101/102 key 1800 (6 blank key for above numpad). Mods pack also would fit for 1800, but would have to use blank key for numpad + - key.
This makes me very sad that this probably won't make it by January 15th. I had myself set on getting this keyset when I first heard of it.This would have been my first GMK set but it won't be anymore since people aren't jumping on it as fast as they should.
I'm surprised that more people wouldn't jump on the opportunity to get these.
Sorry no, paypal charge too much penalty for currency conversion. I already get hit hard enough with my bank when I have to send payment to GMK in euro (which is what part of groupbuy fee is for, to buffer against currency conversion loss)... if only I could transfer euro from paypal to my US bank... sadly it's not allowed.If we are unable to reach moQ, might I add to my original order amount of the spacebars?
I realize that blank is not always most ideal, but when it comes to boards that are 'minority' cases I feel it's better to have blanks that have versatility for many other use instead. Add too many keys for specific non standard models and price goes up up up up.
Can anyone explain to me whats so special/useful about the mod pack?
Can anyone explain to me whats so special/useful about the mod pack?
If the base set gets cancelled, I could afford a second Mod set as well :thumb:Same here. I'll do the same if base doesn't go through.
If the base set gets cancelled, I could afford a second Mod set as well :thumb:Same here. I'll do the same if base doesn't go through.
If this doesn't reach MOQ, is it then possible to get gmk to do a lower MOQ gb with a higher price? I need me some R0 row!
I'm willing to order another mod pack to help us reach MOQ.
Find this set is so beautiful until it turns out to be impossible. :(
Just took my dong out and 5X'd my order. 5 mod packs.
Now is the time to step up, gentlemen...
Just took my dong out and 5X'd my order. 5 mod packs.
Now is the time to step up, gentlemen...
Will double my order is well.
I donged up and did 3 mod packs.
Upped my mod pack order.
Will double my order is well.I donged up and did 3 mod packs.Upped my mod pack order.
I see your schwartzes are as big as mine :cool:
Who else?
I wonder if Ivan has a GMK stamp card. Maybe if he runs enough group buys with them he can get a set for free. Or at least some leniency on numbers for this GB.
Something tells me this might be a little bit too retro for most here, seems like it's really stalled :(
Something tells me this might be a little bit too retro for most here, seems like it's really stalled :(
that and the fact that this is alot of people's first not 'spend on sales' paycheck. still not fully recovered from end of year stuff yet lol.
Well I was just going to buy this set mainly for the R0 row, not a big fan of the look/legends personally. Perhaps it would be a good idea to offer a pack with only an R0 row, surely a lot of people like me with 75% boards be interested in that? I use my 75% for starcraft and I use the function keys a lot in game and need to be able to click it fast, an R4 function row makes it soo hard to reach.
Well I was just going to buy this set mainly for the R0 row, not a big fan of the look/legends personally. Perhaps it would be a good idea to offer a pack with only an R0 row, surely a lot of people like me with 75% boards be interested in that? I use my 75% for starcraft and I use the function keys a lot in game and need to be able to click it fast, an R4 function row makes it soo hard to reach.
do you REALLY think there are 250 orders worth? when the base set can't even get past 150.
I don't think many people are too picky about legends, most people are more concerned about colorway above all else.
I don't think many people are too picky about legends, most people are more concerned about colorway above all else.
You are not reading pal.
Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.
I don't think many people are too picky about legends, most people are more concerned about colorway above all else.
You are not reading pal.
I can assure you I am. Obviously there's some vocal people in here concerned about the legends but most people will look at the colorway and then wont even bother posting if they don't like the look of it. You're all too picky about legends and minor details anyway, to make GMK MOQ's we need to keep things basic so that the majority are happy and actually place orders. Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.
Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.
You hit the nail on the head. It wouldn't be such an issue if the cap suggestions helped a significant number of people, but most of the time they make things worse. A lower price brings in more people than adding keys that cater to the 5 people who need them.
Sure, making sets that help the obscure keyboards is nice, but it seems like for every one or two you add for the obscure caps, you lose 5-10 due to the added cost.
I'm not in on the Ivan mod pack for that reason. $68 plus shipping, PayPal, and GB fee is too rich for me for the maybe 8-15 caps I'd be using from it.
Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.
You hit the nail on the head. It wouldn't be such an issue if the cap suggestions helped a significant number of people, but most of the time they make things worse. A lower price brings in more people than adding keys that cater to the 5 people who need them.
Sure, making sets that help the obscure keyboards is nice, but it seems like for every one or two you add for the obscure caps, you lose 5-10 due to the added cost.
I'm not in on the Ivan mod pack for that reason. $68 plus shipping, PayPal, and GB fee is too rich for me for the maybe 8-15 caps I'd be using from it.
Just getting really tired of hearing people say they won't buy a set unless they get some obscure key or legends that no-one else has asked for.
You hit the nail on the head. It wouldn't be such an issue if the cap suggestions helped a significant number of people, but most of the time they make things worse. A lower price brings in more people than adding keys that cater to the 5 people who need them.
Sure, making sets that help the obscure keyboards is nice, but it seems like for every one or two you add for the obscure caps, you lose 5-10 due to the added cost.
I'm not in on the Ivan mod pack for that reason. $68 plus shipping, PayPal, and GB fee is too rich for me for the maybe 8-15 caps I'd be using from it.
Honestly didn't think about it that way. Good point nub.
I really really really want that base set to fly... so... I guess I will make an extension to help more with people that need additional time to still recovering from holidays spending.
I will also take some hard looks at the sets and see if I can chop some fat to make them cheaper, change a few legends...
Nubs is partly right. Excessive legends does make it costs more, but the beauty of this pack is that it caters to EVERY keyboard.
That's why so many of us are willing to pick up multiple sets. If you have any black and beige set, this completes it for your JD40/1800 and w/e special layout is hot in our keyboard market right now.
$68+shipping+paypal x3 is still within my price range because of how ****ing complete these sets are.
I URGE everyone to spread this on reddit/DT/KBD/EC and any other community that might be able to alleviate the MOQ.
It's a really great mod pack and as much as I'd kill for the base pack, the mod pack is much more important to me.
I really really really want that base set to fly... so... I guess I will make an extension to help more with people that need additional time to still recovering from holidays spending.
I will also take some hard looks at the sets and see if I can chop some fat to make them cheaper, change a few legends...
Ivan be careful about editing the sets down to the lowest common denominator, it will then be COMPLETELY boring like buying sets off Taobao only these will still sell for far more.
Remember having a unique key-set is what makes these so desirable and if you reduce their individuality for the sake of making it cheaper, then why bother to buy them in the first place?
You should be catering a set to make things work for the greatest number of people (so custom Koreans, 1.5x bottom row mods, short shifts for Pure/1800 layout, etc.); however, you also need to balance it with the knowledge that people often rationalize decisions by as little as $1. While there may be a handful of people willing to buy 2-3 sets at ~$75-80 a set once fees and shipping are factored in, there may be a larger portion of the population who will buy one or even 2-3 if that set is a little less specialized and only costs $55-60 shipped per set.
I absolutely love the sets colorway, but couldn't bring myself to order it because of those legends.+1
I know they are supposed to fit the theme, but they would drive me crazy.
If Ivan ever re-runs it with modern legends I will for sure order a set or two.
+2I absolutely love the sets colorway, but couldn't bring myself to order it because of those legends.+1
I know they are supposed to fit the theme, but they would drive me crazy.
If Ivan ever re-runs it with modern legends I will for sure order a set or two.
Nubs is partly right. Excessive legends does make it costs more, but the beauty of this pack is that it caters to EVERY keyboard.
That's why so many of us are willing to pick up multiple sets. If you have any black and beige set, this completes it for your JD40/1800 and w/e special layout is hot in our keyboard market right now.
That's still a minority population. 40% boards make up a small demographic. Look at the last SP sets with specific 40% sets. Some weren't able to even make the 10 needed to tip the 40% sets. If you have people who won't do it with the much cheaper SP, you'll have a hard time convincing me that they make up a substantial part of the population.
You should be catering a set to make things work for the greatest number of people (so custom Koreans, 1.5x bottom row mods, short shifts for Pure/1800 layout, etc.); however, you also need to balance it with the knowledge that people often rationalize decisions by as little as $1. While there may be a handful of people willing to buy 2-3 sets at ~$75-80 a set once fees and shipping are factored in, there may be a larger portion of the population who will buy one or even 2-3 if that set is a little less specialized and only costs $55-60 shipped per set.
Honestly I don't think Ivan should change the packs from what they are. With the deadline being Thursday, I doubt we will even come close with orders. That being said, looks like we will just be getting a ton of space bars... Which isn't a bad thing, because who doesn't need more GMK spacebars.
I don't really see leaving this GB open for longer helping that much.. Maybe it is just better to tuck it away and bring it back at a better time? In the end it is up to Ivan.
I'm just pointing out how to make the packs hit MOQ. Strip out all the stuff that's for small populations that are very vocal but make up a vast minority of the purchasers and decrease the price, thus making it more accessible to more people and making more people willing to buy multiple sets.
I know I'm outspoken on this and that I may make up a minority, but $68 for a set that I know I won't use most of, can't trade most of, and will never use most of is way too much. On the other hand, if it was a slimmed down $40-50 set, I'd buy 2-3 since I could have one to use, one to hold onto and/or one to trade. The GMK WoP set Ivan ran first was perfect. It played to the most common denominator and succeeded because of that.
If you're going to push minority kits that usually can't even hit MOQ at SP, you should be looking at SP for the sets, not GMK. GMK needs to be for the most people while staying the most affordable or you'll never hit the MOQ.
So what I'm intending on doing...
In the full set, replace the duplicates and some extraneous keys with standard US/GB alphanumerics. This will then give the choice to use bitshift, US or GB layout while keeping the cost about the same as it is now.
In the mod pack, I'll be dumping most all the blank keys and a few of the specialist keys to drop the price.
Hopefully these changes will be appealing enough to get them through.
So what I'm intending on doing...
In the full set, replace the duplicates and some extraneous keys with standard US/GB alphanumerics. This will then give the choice to use bitshift, US or GB layout while keeping the cost about the same as it is now.
In the mod pack, I'll be dumping most all the blank keys and a few of the specialist keys to drop the price.
Hopefully these changes will be appealing enough to get them through.
So what I'm intending on doing...
In the full set, replace the duplicates and some extraneous keys with standard US/GB alphanumerics. This will then give the choice to use bitshift, US or GB layout while keeping the cost about the same as it is now.
In the mod pack, I'll be dumping most all the blank keys and a few of the specialist keys to drop the price.
Hopefully these changes will be appealing enough to get them through.
I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)
We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.
I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)
We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.
I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)
We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.
I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)
We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.
This is the modifiers set to have for compatibility with most of the old double shot Cherry sets available.
I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)
We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.
Those changes work for me (HHKB layout and 75%).
I didn't chop too much on the mods pack...
(Attachment Link)
We'll see how much those changes help the price. Otherwise I might cut a few more of the least necessary ones. I don't want to hurt compatibility with maximum number of boards too much if it can be helped.
This is the modifiers set to have for compatibility with most of the old double shot Cherry sets available.
Yup, this looks fantastic; even though I'm gonna miss my blank 1.5u.
I don't think you are necessarily wrong about that. But there are a million GBs happening right now and everyone is bankrupt due to the holidays, so I think they are just unable to pay the price.
I don't think you are necessarily wrong about that. But there are a million GBs happening right now and everyone is bankrupt due to the holidays, so I think they are just unable to pay the price.
There are so many people with great ideas and great GBs it really is a blessing and a curse!
I'm just not into purples and pinks (35 yr old male).
I'm just not into purples and pinks (35 yr old male).
:)) You don't have to be a 12 yr old female to like fun colors...
But only a real man would not be afraid of using a pink keyboard :cool:I'm just not into purples and pinks (35 yr old male).
:)) You don't have to be a 12 yr old female to like fun colors...
But only a real man would not be afraid of using a pink keyboard :cool:
Nice pink keyboard.
IT'S SALMON!
Yeah this could be the problem.
It's hard to tell when we only get vocal input from 20 people and obviously 100+ are laying down money.
Yeah this could be the problem.
It's hard to tell when we only get vocal input from 20 people and obviously 100+ are laying down money.
I'll give my 2 cents then I suppose
- All packs have too many keys. Because these sets are trying to be inclusive you're really just excluding most people due to price/wasted extras. It's why people pay for Netflix instead of cable, no one wants to pay for 100s of channels when you only need 5-10.
- Base set for example has an extra arrow key profile, some blanks, stepped capslock etc. Those should be in a separate kit. 60% and TKL owners already don't need the numpad (and 60% won't need function row) and now I'd have to the get Tsangan kit AND those extras? More than half those keys are wasted.
- Mod pack is too inclusive also, with the blank keys and the numpad +, %, x num keys. I don't mind paying for the Tsangan kit in this case but the rest is too much.
- Color pack needs to ditch the function row and/or the blanks.
- Since every set so far could do without the blanks, have it in their own set for people to buy and stop including it with the rest. The one exception is the Base kit/Color pack for people who want to replace the Windows key with a blank one, but that's it.
The market for keycaps is a niche market as it is, and these sets are targeting a niche within a niche.
Last note. Yes, Christmas happened and there are other Group Buys saturating the market, but that's not the main factor. People who are strapped for the cash can often find funds for sets with re-sell value. Take feng's recent Cyan group buy. I can re-sell those color packs, it's a handful of keys that are desirable for a wide variety of people and are affordable. I can't easily re-sell the color pack here, nor the mod pack or base kit.
Full set dosen't have the 1u ctrl, alt keys... and GMK dosen't have 6u spacebars at all. So no, they are not really compatible fully with winkey 1800 family. The mod pack does have 1u ctrl, alt... but still no spacebar solution, would have to source from other 1800 if you need a 'white'/'beige' spacebar.
@hoff: You're absolutely correct, there literally isn't fragmenting GMK buys, because they just don't happen that way.
In regards to doing "too much" however, there are so few sets that fit any number of keyboards, and having one ultimate set, be it at a higher cost, would be godly.
In my eyes it's something that hasn't been achieved; this is why I bought in 3, and why intelli [not entirely sure about name and too lazy to check back, going to avatar in my memory] bought in 5 mod packs.
Classic beige in Cherry profile, from GMK no less, only seems natural.
Exactly... also GMK pricing has the mysterious effect of becoming more expensive with multiple smaller kits instead of one big one that has everything.
I've done some revising, and hopefully the end result will be more satisfactory. I should have the pricing for those revisions early next week.
Exactly... also GMK pricing has the mysterious effect of becoming more expensive with multiple smaller kits instead of one big one that has everything.
I've done some revising, and hopefully the end result will be more satisfactory. I should have the pricing for those revisions early next week.
Hoping you will revise the design to make it truly HUMONGOUS, without equal, anywhere on this planet. A Super-Large key-set able to furnish anything that was ever made in the past 15 years.
That I would buy easily, if they (GMK) like dealing with HUGE key-sets then by all means unload everything onto them Ivan, shower them with everything you've got 8) .
Exactly... also GMK pricing has the mysterious effect of becoming more expensive with multiple smaller kits instead of one big one that has everything.
I've done some revising, and hopefully the end result will be more satisfactory. I should have the pricing for those revisions early next week.
Hoping you will revise the design to make it truly HUMONGOUS, without equal, anywhere on this planet. A Super-Large key-set able to furnish anything that was ever made in the past 15 years.
That I would buy easily, if they (GMK) like dealing with HUGE key-sets then by all means unload everything onto them Ivan, shower them with everything you've got 8) .
Well if you like sets that miss MOQ then by all means.
Ivan, so does GMK not have the correct molds for the 1800 spacebar? That would be unfortunate :( (not that it matters for this GB)
Well if you like sets that miss MOQ then by all means.
Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.
Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.
You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again. That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else. There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.
Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.
You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again. That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else. There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.
Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... :'( :'( :'( :'(
dolch was actually saved a person buying a HUGE amount of sets. like 150 or so right?
You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again. That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else. There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.
Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... :'( :'( :'( :'(
This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.
Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.
You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again. That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else. There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.
Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Ivan is waiting for an updated quotation for smaller sets, then the deadline could be pushed forward to allow more people to get in. Let's see if the GB could reach MOQ.
You know what the worst thing that could happen, he is forced to re-run "DOLCH" yet again. That thing always get's the moq no matter what, it's the norm here that all noobs want a bit of Dolch above all else. There is no more love for all out beige (my all time favorite colour scheme) so better stick with the sure-fire colour-way that keeps bringing them in with their moolah.
Or maybe GMK made caps have run their course already, many people instead are looking for the cheaper option......... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Totally agree Elrick! Beige is also my fav.
This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.
I am a little surprised the mod set won't hit MOQ though. I guess the legends may have something to do with it again. Ivan, I only just noticed, how come two of the shifts have CP legends rather than CR?
I think it mostly had to do with too many sets being run around December, an already expensive month.This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.
I am a little surprised the mod set won't hit MOQ though. I guess the legends may have something to do with it again. Ivan, I only just noticed, how come two of the shifts have CP legends rather than CR?
I wonder if a classic White on black GMK set would even hit MOQ lol.
Well if you like sets that miss MOQ then by all means.
Well have a look at the current numbers, are they any better?
If all anyone can afford is just a couple of keys from GMK then FVCKING forget about it >:( . Who the HELL wants to keep buying just a couple of non-descript keys forever from this site?
Far better go in HARD and offer an all in one due to the cheapness offered compared to buying tiny amount of keys that never match to anything, in fact SP now ranges as the BETTER alternative you get FAR more keys at a lower price hence GMK priced themselves out of the market.
I love German made but I now stop at buying small to tiny number of keys because of people/noobs wanting to only spend $20USD on them. If no one is interested in buying an authentic, complete GMK key-set, then why bother posting it here on a continuing basis?
Do you remember the super-set that Ivan tried in late 2013 (I think)? The one that set out to satisfy everyone's needs, with all the international sets. While it was a masterful set, complete with anything anyone would ever want, it didn't succeed. Granted, that had a lot of language sets, so it's a bit different from this set in how it is complete (languages vs layouts), but it is still a good example of a GB trying to please too many groups.
I sort of spoke my mind in the beginning of the GB regarding sets being overboalted with extra keys and high prices, also the all wrong legends issue too. I know I got hate in return, facts are facts and it seems we don't learn from our own mistakes sometimes.
Remember what happened to Dolch at the first try? tons of keys, high price and GB didn't moved at all, Ivan somehow realized and changed up a bit and the GB went on because there were not extra keys and price was not steep.
Here we are again, same situation as when Dolch first started. Go ahead flame all u want, but at the end of the day results are the same, the GB wont go trough.
I sort of spoke my mind in the beginning of the GB regarding sets being overboalted with extra keys and high prices, also the all wrong legends issue too. I know I got hate in return, facts are facts and it seems we don't learn from our own mistakes sometimes.
Remember what happened to Dolch at the first try? tons of keys, high price and GB didn't moved at all, Ivan somehow realized and changed up a bit and the GB went on because there were not extra keys and price was not steep.
Here we are again, same situation as when Dolch first started. Go ahead flame all u want, but at the end of the day results are the same, the GB wont go trough.
What you wrote may be true for the full set, but it is not for the modifiers one. Regarding the legends, I partially agree that having some that does not match at all an ANSI layout is not particularly enticing. If that is what you meant.
I sort of spoke my mind in the beginning of the GB regarding sets being overboalted with extra keys and high prices, also the all wrong legends issue too. I know I got hate in return, facts are facts and it seems we don't learn from our own mistakes sometimes.
Remember what happened to Dolch at the first try? tons of keys, high price and GB didn't moved at all, Ivan somehow realized and changed up a bit and the GB went on because there were not extra keys and price was not steep.
Here we are again, same situation as when Dolch first started. Go ahead flame all u want, but at the end of the day results are the same, the GB wont go trough.
What you wrote may be true for the full set, but it is not for the modifiers one. Regarding the legends, I partially agree that having some that does not match at all an ANSI layout is not particularly enticing. If that is what you meant.
and how you explain this then? Mod sets - 116
This is a pretty sad state of affairs but you are probably right. I like dolch but beige is definitely my all time favorite scheme too, I'm still pretty surprised at the lack of interest for this GB, especially that god like mod set.I'm not surprised the main set is nowhere near MOQ. I think it's just too odd for most people. The legends are awfully strange, and you don't even have a proper ANSI set due to some of the symbols being deliberately different from modern ANSI.
I am a little surprised the mod set won't hit MOQ though. I guess the legends may have something to do with it again. Ivan, I only just noticed, how come two of the shifts have CP legends rather than CR?
Main set revision will include US and GB keys, and possibly DE, DK, NO, SE too depending on how the pricing looks. It will either get cheaper, or stay about the same as I am either replacing keys or removing them, not adding. All the mod set have black legends except the bonus Esc key which has the CP... any other variation in color is just from the lighting effects they applied to the 3D rendering.
bazemk, if you read back a few pages you can already see a revised image removing almost all the blank keys.
Thank you for your pessimism though, it pushes us closer to MOQ with every breath.
Hmm, I really hate to be negative but I think this was a miss...the market's response calls for a leaner and cheaper set, not an even bigger set. Good luck but I don't think this is going to get you more than 5-10 orders, and might even cause as many dropouts. :(
Hmm, I really hate to be negative but I think this was a miss...the market's response calls for a leaner and cheaper set, not an even bigger set. Good luck but I don't think this is going to get you more than 5-10 orders, and might even cause as many dropouts. :(
You're German and you don't want German keys?
How often does this even get offered, that there is other languages... almost never and people still don't want it when it's going to cost a similar price. I don't even.
More keys than standard ANSI 104 + ISO + Tsangan is just too much in my opinion...
You're German and you don't want German keys?
How often does this even get offered, that there is other languages... almost never and people still don't want it when it's going to cost a similar price. I don't even.
Probably the most logical option. And for the Mod Kit, just offer a pack of what used to be called the "moogle" and "tsangan" kits only. Those used to sell so well in GBs, I never understood why we don't have small packs like that for compatibility with vintage WoB or BoW Cherry sets? Do you really get that many overseas orders, that you need to include other language options and blanks?
149 keys in the original vs currently 160 (there are some further non essential keys that could be dropped)... with support for at least 7 different layouts. 4 of those layouts are nearly impossible to find and haven't been made in a decade plus. I have no idea why people wouldn't jump on the opportunity. I'm getting really really really tired of the if it isn't only what I use I'm not going to help anyone else get the things they would use attitude around here. So much for 'community'.Okay first, please Ivan do not think I am trying to be a negative Nancy or condescend or disparage this set or your hard work. We all appreciate what you do and have the highest respect... You are AWESOME, bro. I am just speaking my mind about the economics of group buys...
Probably the most logical option. And for the Mod Kit, just offer a pack of what used to be called the "moogle" and "tsangan" kits only. Those used to sell so well in GBs, I never understood why we don't have small packs like that for compatibility with vintage WoB or BoW Cherry sets? Do you really get that many overseas orders, that you need to include other language options and blanks?
Sets do need the the pair of 1.25 blanks at least though.
Oh, but sets need the HHKB pack...Probably the most logical option. And for the Mod Kit, just offer a pack of what used to be called the "moogle" and "tsangan" kits only. Those used to sell so well in GBs, I never understood why we don't have small packs like that for compatibility with vintage WoB or BoW Cherry sets? Do you really get that many overseas orders, that you need to include other language options and blanks?
Sets do need the the pair of 1.25 blanks at least though.
That is a good example of the type of compromise needed...can't agree on one legend? Blank it out. What you should NOT do is add keys.Probably the most logical option. And for the Mod Kit, just offer a pack of what used to be called the "moogle" and "tsangan" kits only. Those used to sell so well in GBs, I never understood why we don't have small packs like that for compatibility with vintage WoB or BoW Cherry sets? Do you really get that many overseas orders, that you need to include other language options and blanks?
Sets do need the the pair of 1.25 blanks at least though.
Then we can just do away with the Win keys. I think most people just want a few keys that allow their vintage set to be used on a modern 104/87 keyboard. If OS keys are really a sticking point for most people, then yeah, just go with blanks for those.
Oh, but sets need the HHKB pack...Probably the most logical option. And for the Mod Kit, just offer a pack of what used to be called the "moogle" and "tsangan" kits only. Those used to sell so well in GBs, I never understood why we don't have small packs like that for compatibility with vintage WoB or BoW Cherry sets? Do you really get that many overseas orders, that you need to include other language options and blanks?
Sets do need the the pair of 1.25 blanks at least though.
Oh, but sets need 75% keys...
Oh, but sets need A-profile alternatives...
once you start, it never ends. like I discussed above it is akin to a tragedy of the commons...
^ my point was about the slippery slope of saying, ok, let's cut this down to the bare minimum.... and then 10 people request 1-2 keys each...and you're back to where you started.
Current orders are now below 100 so maybe it's just time to say **** it and cancel the whole thing.
Oh, but sets need the HHKB pack...Probably the most logical option. And for the Mod Kit, just offer a pack of what used to be called the "moogle" and "tsangan" kits only. Those used to sell so well in GBs, I never understood why we don't have small packs like that for compatibility with vintage WoB or BoW Cherry sets? Do you really get that many overseas orders, that you need to include other language options and blanks?
Sets do need the the pair of 1.25 blanks at least though.
Oh, but sets need 75% keys...
Oh, but sets need A-profile alternatives...
once you start, it never ends. like I discussed above it is akin to a tragedy of the commons...
How would you feel about this trimmed down version?
How would you feel about this trimmed down version? Best guess is it should be somewhere around €10-15 cheaper than what's in the OP. The EURO IS DOWN right now! it's only at 1 to 1.10!!! That would make this somewhere right around $100 USD. Great time to get this done!
This would be my preference then...
(Attachment Link)
Ivan would you still run the mod pack if the base pack is cancelled?
Ivan would you still run the mod pack if the base pack is cancelled?
I hate to say I've already given up on the main set with only 125 orders originally, and some pulling out to support mods.
I'd love to see the mod kit made.
thumb.149 keys in the original vs currently 160 (there are some further non essential keys that could be dropped)... with support for at least 7 different layouts. 4 of those layouts are nearly impossible to find and haven't been made in a decade plus. I have no idea why people wouldn't jump on the opportunity. I'm getting really really really tired of the if it isn't only what I use I'm not going to help anyone else get the things they would use attitude around here. So much for 'community'.Okay first, please Ivan do not think I am trying to be a negative Nancy or condescend or disparage this set or your hard work. We all appreciate what you do and have the highest respect... You are AWESOME, bro. I am just speaking my mind about the economics of group buys...
Having said that.... I am really surprised that after everything, my comment is the one that finally upset you.
Everybody who chimes in saying that they just need x key or y key or they won't buy it...THAT is the behavior that ruins everything for the community.
Compromising on LESS is what everybody needs to do. People with unusual layouts or languages need to chill and realize that US ANSI is about all the market can handle. You can be upset about what I'm saying but it doesn't change the reality...
This is basically tragedy of the commons scenario...something that could be pretty good for everyone (a 104 key plus ISO and Tsangan), ends up becoming ruined (too expensive) because everyone exacts a cost on it (adding more and more keys).
In THEORY you are right that this is an unprecedented chance to get all these layouts. But the economic REALITY is that no matter how much people's wallets are hacked, group buy participation falls sharply as the price passes $120 or so....and honestly I don't believe you can blame anyone for this... no matter how sweet the set is, it just cannot be justified due to opportunity cost...
Also I suspect that the % that will use ANY of the international keys is quite low.... meaning the majority of buyers are expected to subsidize that cost and end up with a lot of pricy, extraneous keys...to my mind that is a misalignment of priorities.
When I revised the TA set with Photekq (still waiting for the new renders) I started on the premise of cutting everything we could and being very stingy with every key, resulting in a smaller but more useful set than we started with...personally I think that is the only successful design philosophy right now.
Now, if to you this set is all about total coverage, I. E. that facet of the GB is just as important as say, the colorway, then do what you have to do...I just think that the market will punish you for it and it will unfortunately fail MOQ.
Just the way I'm seeing it. And please do not think this is only about this GB...I feel the same way about a lot of recent GBS.
Once again thank you for your hard work and please realize I mean no harm with any of this....
Well hopefully I'll get new pricing with my suggested changes from GMK next week... then we can see what happens.
Also, I'm sort of new here, but does that Elrick guy have any friends?;D Elrick , I would like to have a friend like him, that is one straight forward guy, and with a language to my taste :thumb:
Also, I'm sort of new here, but does that Elrick guy have any friends?good point.
Down for a mod set with a bit of a price drop. Is hhkb layout still supported?
Grumblegrumble. I should probably join the Mod pack as well. What is our updated count on the pack?
Grumblegrumble. I should probably join the Mod pack as well. What is our updated count on the pack?
I think it's best to first wait for Ivan to sort out the new layouts and prices before we do number updates. I am sure that orders will change drastically depending on Ivan's update.
Grumblegrumble. I should probably join the Mod pack as well. What is our updated count on the pack?
I think it's best to first wait for Ivan to sort out the new layouts and prices before we do number updates. I am sure that orders will change drastically depending on Ivan's update.
I wonder why the update is taking this long.
Grumblegrumble. I should probably join the Mod pack as well. What is our updated count on the pack?
I think it's best to first wait for Ivan to sort out the new layouts and prices before we do number updates. I am sure that orders will change drastically depending on Ivan's update.
I wonder why the update is taking this long.
Ivan is wrapping up PBT round 4 I would assume.
GMK still hasn't gotten back to me on my changes pricing.
GMK still hasn't gotten back to me on my changes pricing.
Thank you for your post, this GB is great, beige is one the nicest color sets from GMK.
GMK still hasn't gotten back to me on my changes pricing.
Thank you for your post, this GB is great, beige is one the nicest color sets from GMK.
Plus it goes with every lighter coloured keyboard that's available out there :thumb: .
It deserves placement within any GON keyboard that was ever made, to fully appreciate the perfection of these key-caps.
Just ordered 2 of everything here plus a further 4 Spacers, please make that happen Ivan :thumb: .
Deep pockets sir?
No the color pack was not touched. I only updated it's USD price to reflect the current exchange rate. I hope the USD and EUR are still so close to each other in mid March. Now really is a very good time for US buyers while the rates are so favorably close.Thanks. So I don't have to make any change to my order, still 1 color pack.
Deep pockets sir?
Not really, just love to support Ivan because he started all this GMK craze way back when.
Always support the original Group Buy dealer because when you're a GMK fanatic, you always keep coming back for more (like Crack or weed) 8) .
The modifier set count is at 160, it is still far from 250, unfortunately.
Ivan, I placed a spacebar order about a week ago and I've yet to receive an invoice. Are they still going out or are you waiting until we hit the new deadline?
No invoices will go out until we see if anything else makes MOQ, then it will all be done together.
Ivan, I placed a spacebar order about a week ago and I've yet to receive an invoice. Are they still going out or are you waiting until we hit the new deadline?
He's waiting for the new deadline to send out all invoices at once.No invoices will go out until we see if anything else makes MOQ, then it will all be done together.
I lost my link to edit order so now I just have to put in a new one and the old one will be replaced right?Yup that is correct.
So many people doubling their order, let's do it people!
Where is Elrick when you need him ... !?
Looks like we hit a wall for now. Order amounts have been unchanged for 3 weeks.
Looks like we hit a wall for now. Order amounts have been unchanged for 3 weeks.
So looking just like spacebars then? That is no fun..
Just for your sake, if we don't hit MOQ by the 15th, it might be better to just hold off on space bars and just tack those onto the next GMK GB you do.
I need dem spacebars.
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
NOOOO!
Ivan, don't go!
Everyone slash their full set and get mod pack to tip.
Also why wouldn't originative buy in on this to show the community that they're for real.
Randomly opening shop again after a million unfulfilled orders just seems like a scam.
Yes resubmit is preferred.Order resubmitted.
Resubmitted for a 3rd time, took out the main pack and added another mod pack! :thumb:
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
NOOOO!
Ivan, don't go!
Worry not. His "upcoming" GMK modifier set with RGB legends on black will be a hit. However, nobody knows how it is in his long pipeline of ideas.
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
NOOOO!
Ivan, don't go!
Worry not. His "upcoming" GMK modifier set with RGB legends on black will be a hit. However, nobody knows how it is in his long pipeline of ideas.
Looking forward to the RGB on Black, that will look soooo classy.
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
NOOOO!
Ivan, don't go!
Worry not. His "upcoming" GMK modifier set with RGB legends on black will be a hit. However, nobody knows how it is in his long pipeline of ideas.
Looking forward to the RGB on Black, that will look soooo classy.
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
NOOOO!
Ivan, don't go!
Worry not. His "upcoming" GMK modifier set with RGB legends on black will be a hit. However, nobody knows how it is in his long pipeline of ideas.
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
NOOOO!
Ivan, don't go!
Worry not. His "upcoming" GMK modifier set with RGB legends on black will be a hit. However, nobody knows how it is in his long pipeline of ideas.
Looking forward to the RGB on Black, that will look soooo classy.
Just thought I'd mention this... RGBY.. please Y for the window key. I know not everyone uses it, but it will give us the option for stock keyboards that don't have any other choice.
And PLEASE don't go with the nasty N6 yellow, I think the CV yellow looks a lot more crisp and would have a nicer contrast with Black.
Anything that makes it will move forward to production. No one thing is dependent on any other. I'm sad the full set, color pack and mods set isn't doing better but it is what it is. If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
NOOOO!
Ivan, don't go!
Worry not. His "upcoming" GMK modifier set with RGB legends on black will be a hit. However, nobody knows how it is in his long pipeline of ideas.
I thought it was CMY on black. That was the logic for not changing the mod pack bill was doing to a CMY on Black. RGB, meh, CMY, awesome.
RGB, meh, CMY, awesome.
I've never been a big fan of CMY.
RGB, meh, CMY, awesome.
:thumb:I've never been a big fan of CMY.
:eek: bueller! :'(
The colors are only for legends, just in case you are thinking in full color caps instead.
The colors are only for legends, just in case you are thinking in full color caps instead.
I know it's for the legends. It would make no sense to run CMYK or CMYW again. I just remember people saying Ivan was doing CMY legends when I posted my ideas in bill's thread.
If my next idea doesn't make it either I will stop trying.
15th is coming up soon. It's do or die time, no more extending.
I'm curious what some of you are going to do with so many spacebars... building a full scale piano keyboard with them?
ayyy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63666.0)15th is coming up soon. It's do or die time, no more extending.
I'm curious what some of you are going to do with so many spacebars... building a full scale piano keyboard with them?
+1, the space bars I got in your last space bars GB are sitting somewhere in a box with no use whatsoever.
This is the make it or break it point, we have to shift our orders from the base kit to the mod pack, or we won't be able to get either of them.
I hope we can make it work!
Added a mod pack to my order and more spacebars, because who ever has enough space bars?
Aren't the spacebars random colours? Buying loads increases the chance of one's you want ;)
Aren't the spacebars random colours? Buying loads increases the chance of one's you want ;)
this is my reason for ordering more spacebars. i need all the colors. :)
Aren't the spacebars random colours? Buying loads increases the chance of one's you want ;)
this is my reason for ordering more spacebars. i need all the colors. :)
What are the potential spacebar colors?
What are the potential spacebar colors?
Pretty much anything in the GMK color wheel. They use up old granulate from other GB's to make the space-bars.
The colors are only for legends, just in case you are thinking in full color caps instead.
I know it's for the legends. It would make no sense to run CMYK or CMYW again. I just remember people saying Ivan was doing CMY legends when I posted my ideas in bill's thread.
This is the make it or break it point, we have to shift our orders from the base kit to the mod pack, or we won't be able to get either of them.
I hope we can make it work!
I agree, I would ask those that are ordering the full set to consider switching to the mod pack so that we at least get something awesome from this GB.
Not trying to be pushy at all, just to consider it.
What are the potential spacebar colors?
Pretty much anything in the GMK color wheel. They use up old granulate from other GB's to make the space-bars.
ahh so whatever is being made. cmyw! prob too late for hyperfuse stuff?
lets push this back a bit ivan!
Regarding the Mod pack: does someone already have any GMK keys in beige (U9) and can compare the color to a few old cherry sets?
According to the discussions on DT, it seems like a few people who would be interested in beige mods don't buy the Mod set because they think they'd only need a small and cheaper Moogle kit that they can combine with their old Cherry caps.
It might help the Mod pack if it could be shown that GMK beige and Cherry vintage beige (at least on part of the sets) are actually slightly different, like Ivan suggested they are. So there would be a demonstrable advantage in replacing all the beige caps using this full Mod set instead of using just a Moogle kit.
Yeah I think we should let this go, it's clearly not gonna happen.I think it was a really bad timing :( Too many GMK GB's lately not enough money for all of them :(
If people would give up the base set and pour half of those orders into the modpack, then we can make it happen!
Perhaps some of them need a reminder that this group buy is still going on? Cause I know myself, sometimes I don't really check the progress of a group buy until it's over.
If people would give up the base set and pour half of those orders into the modpack, then we can make it happen!
Perhaps some of them need a reminder that this group buy is still going on? Cause I know myself, sometimes I don't really check the progress of a group buy until it's over.
Yeah I think we should let this go, it's clearly not gonna happen.I think it was a really bad timing :( Too many GMK GB's lately not enough money for all of them :(
Yeah I think we should let this go, it's clearly not gonna happen.I think it was a really bad timing :( Too many GMK GB's lately not enough money for all of them :(
I don't think that was the main reason.
This set is just too extravagant for the masses. I mean look at the discussion about the win key in the Triumph Adler Interest Check. Such details costs orders!
This set just has too many of those details: The F-Keys, text only legends, etc.
I think most people want a standard ANSI set with Icon + Text legends in a nice color scheme. That's why Hyperfuse is a huge success and that's why the Classic Beige and the Triumph Adler sets will most likely make it.
Indeed, I wanted to do stuff that probably hasn't been made in 25-30 years that is really hard to find. Unfortunately not enough people seem to appreciate it. Next time will be back to standard US layout based set with same key count and price as this one.
I'm ready for the RGBY with Black letters :)
I'm ready for the RGBY with Black letters :)
It was RGBY legends on black key caps.
Sorry, but it will be CMY legends on black keycaps next no RGB.
Since this one is likely to die, I will be starting new in the next weeks. I know I previously said anything that is above MOQ will go... but I don't want to do spacebar only now and then offer spacebar again next time (specific colors black, cyan, magenta, yellow) so... if nothing else makes it like the MODs pack then this whole thing will be cancelled.
I know I previously said anything that is above MOQ will go... but I don't want to do spacebar only now and then offer spacebar again next time (specific colors black, cyan, magenta, yellow) so... if nothing else makes it like the MODs pack then this whole thing will be cancelled.
Sorry, but it will be CMY legends on black keycaps next no RGB.
Since this one is likely to die, I will be starting new in the next weeks. I know I previously said anything that is above MOQ will go... but I don't want to do spacebar only now and then offer spacebar again next time (specific colors black, cyan, magenta, yellow) so... if nothing else makes it like the MODs pack then this whole thing will be cancelled.
Sorry, but it will be CMY legends on black keycaps next no RGB.That's a shame but completely understandable. And it might give you some breathing room with the other GBs that are still running.
Since this one is likely to die, I will be starting new in the next weeks. I know I previously said anything that is above MOQ will go... but I don't want to do spacebar only now and then offer spacebar again next time (specific colors black, cyan, magenta, yellow) so... if nothing else makes it like the MODs pack then this whole thing will be cancelled.
Order placed, if only to help numbers. And i bumped the thread on DT. I'm really keen on this set and Photekq's similar one. I hope one of them hits MOQ.Sorry man:
Sorry, but it will be CMY legends on black keycaps next no RGB.
Since this one is likely to die, I will be starting new in the next weeks. I know I previously said anything that is above MOQ will go... but I don't want to do spacebar only now and then offer spacebar again next time (specific colors black, cyan, magenta, yellow) so... if nothing else makes it like the MODs pack then this whole thing will be cancelled.
Since it doesn't look like any of the kits are going to make the MOQ, I will be cancelling this whole thing. Since I will be turning around to start a new different buy in the next weeks I will wait to do the spacebars too along with the new offerings.
Thanks for your support on trying to make this happen. I hope you will support the next one as well which will be cyan/magenta on black keys full set US layout, Spanish sub layout side printed. CMYKv2 color legends on black keys. White/black bare essentials patch kit for making compatible existing common sets from MY7000/MY8000/11900/1800/etc. Spacebars in black, cyan, magenta and yellow.
Since it doesn't look like any of the kits are going to make the MOQ, I will be cancelling this whole thing. Since I will be turning around to start a new different buy in the next weeks I will wait to do the spacebars too along with the new offerings.
Thanks for your support on trying to make this happen. I hope you will support the next one as well which will be cyan/magenta on black keys full set US layout, Spanish sub layout side printed. CMYKv2 color legends on black keys. White/black bare essentials patch kit for making compatible existing common sets from MY7000/MY8000/11900/1800/etc. Spacebars in black, cyan, magenta and yellow.
Since it doesn't look like any of the kits are going to make the MOQ, I will be cancelling this whole thing. Since I will be turning around to start a new different buy in the next weeks I will wait to do the spacebars too along with the new offerings.
Thanks for your support on trying to make this happen. I hope you will support the next one as well which will be cyan/magenta on black keys full set US layout, Spanish sub layout side printed. CMYKv2 color legends on black keys. White/black bare essentials patch kit for making compatible existing common sets from MY7000/MY8000/11900/1800/etc. Spacebars in black, cyan, magenta and yellow.