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Author Topic: What is it about Filco keyboards?  (Read 13020 times)

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Offline xsphat

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:28:20 »
OK ...

So what's your point? I thought you were saying the Topre switch is identical to a rubber dome / membrane mechanism because of the rubber cones. My bad.
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Offline xsphat

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:33:21 »
But I still think the spring adds to the tactile, which means touch or feel, part of the switch. A spring by design adds resistance which is a huge part of the feel of a switch. And I doubt the thin rubber sleeve overpowers the spring in resistance.
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Offline bigpook

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:35:30 »
sorry, I was just trying to put it into context with your post.
to be honest, it confused me.
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Offline bigpook

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:41:11 »
Is it that the spring and rubber dome work in tandem? I would think the spring would be enough resistance on the way down, and provide enough force on the way back up. Maybe the rubber dome acts as a damping device.
I press the key on the HHKB and there is a slight amount of resistance on the downstroke. Thats the spring, I think.But the rubber dome is still there so it must contribute also. No?
Correct me here if you would.
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Offline xsphat

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:42:28 »
Quote from: bigpook;9139
sorry, I was just trying to put it into context with your post.
to be honest, it confused me.

Pook, I wasn't talking to you. Quite frankly, this post is confusing me too. I thought we were talking about how a chit-ton of Filco owners have sold off their nearly brand-new keyboards.
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Offline xsphat

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:45:07 »
Quote from: bigpook;9140
Maybe the rubber dome acts as a damping device.


That makes perfect sense.
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Offline vils

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:47:19 »
I just paid the shipping for two new filcos (brown cherry and black alps). So I'm possibly running against the herd...

/Vils
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Offline karlito

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:51:39 »
im selling my filco cause i got the tenkeyless version o_O.  tenkeyless is my nervana.  I would like to try a torpre 86 but im not going to pay that much.
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Offline bigpook

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 16:16:29 »
My next keyboard hopefully will be the filco tenkeyless with brown switches. I want to try one out and see.
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Offline bigpook

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 16:18:28 »
xsphat, that post was for lowpoly. The rubber dome is there for a reason, otherwise the designer/engineer would not have put it there. My challenge is figuring out how it interacts with the keystroke. In no way am I comparing this to a rubber dome keyboard.
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Offline Ulysses31

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 17:11:02 »
Quote from: vils;9143
I just paid the shipping for two new filcos (brown cherry and black alps). So I'm possibly running against the herd...

/Vils


I've only ever seen a white-alps Filco; where did you find one with black-alps?
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Offline vils

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 27 September 2008, 17:30:13 »
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Offline Ulysses31

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 28 September 2008, 10:26:55 »
They keep raising the price of the Filco (wired, English, brown switches) on beNippon.  Doesn't seem to be linked to the value of the dollar.  Last week it was $105.  Yesterday it was $123 and now it's $124.  Seems like there's still a lot of demand for this, despite most members here letting go of theirs.
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Offline Waves77

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 28 September 2008, 10:55:24 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;9154
They keep raising the price of the Filco (wired, English, brown switches) on beNippon.  Doesn't seem to be linked to the value of the dollar.  Last week it was $105.  Yesterday it was $123 and now it's $124.  Seems like there's still a lot of demand for this, despite most members here letting go of theirs.


It's worth keeping an eye on their prices, my HHKB dropped $20 when I finally pulled the trigger. Not totally sure they go by the $ price though, I always pay the equivalent of yens.
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Current collection:
\'91 Model M (1391401), \'93 1391401, \'91 Model M (industrial 1394946), Dell AT101W, Apple Extended II (M3501), Cherry G84-4100, Filco FKB 104M/EB, Macally 96, Das III Pro, HHKB Pro 2.

Offline xsphat

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 28 September 2008, 11:35:38 »
I ordered my Topre 86 at $301 (with shipping and everything). When I completed the payment, I was billed $290.
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Offline lowpoly

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 28 September 2008, 13:46:09 »
Quote from: xsphat;9136
So what's your point? I thought you were saying the Topre switch is identical to a rubber dome / membrane mechanism because of the rubber cones. My bad.

No, my point was that the rubber dome contributes to the switch feeling. That was all. It went downhill when I tried to explain it. :)

Quote from: bigpook;9140
Is it that the spring and rubber dome work in tandem? I would think the spring would be enough resistance on the way down, and provide enough force on the way back up. Maybe the rubber dome acts as a damping device.
I press the key on the HHKB and there is a slight amount of resistance on the downstroke. Thats the spring, I think.But the rubber dome is still there so it must contribute also. No?
Correct me here if you would.

The rubber dome contributes. I tried to google some force curves but was unsuccessful. And I don't have my bookmarks here.

So, if you look at the HHKB logo:



Look at the red line. Flip it upside down and you have something similar to the hhkb pressure curve. Connect the start and end point with a straight line and you have a linear curve. That's what a spring would give. But the pressure increasing, then diminishing, that's the rubber dome.
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Offline xsphat

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 28 September 2008, 18:13:43 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9160
Look at the red line. Flip it upside down and you have something similar to the hhkb pressure curve. Connect the start and end point with a straight line and you have a linear curve. That's what a spring would give. But the pressure increasing, then diminishing, that's the rubber dome.

I bet you're a big conspiracy theorist, aren't ya?
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Offline xsphat

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 28 September 2008, 18:15:37 »
Next thing you know, you'll have a mullet and be looking through ancient libraries searching for clues ...
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Offline lowpoly

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 29 September 2008, 04:29:07 »
As this is the internet, I might already have a mullet.
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Offline lowpoly

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 29 September 2008, 04:52:15 »
Didn't find the link with all the force curves but found this pic in my HHKB folder:



That's the HHKB Pro force graph. I mean, it's pretty obvious that they used that for the logo?

It's also on this page (together with some nice HHKB pics):

http://dreamwiz.bb.co.kr/wiz/pd/pr_list.php?board_mode=4&pd_id=632388

Again, without the rubber dome this would be a straight line until 4 millimeter. At that point the line will always go vertical because the keycap bottoms out.
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Offline graywolf

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 30 September 2008, 16:42:46 »
So.... Does that spring add crispness to the key feel? Or does it have that dead rubber feel? Is there any kind of click, or does it just go thump when it bottoms out? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Offline Korbin

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 30 September 2008, 16:48:58 »
The best way to describe it is that it feels like a thump when it bottoms out, compare to a "clack" with mechanical boards.

The spring seems like it gives the keystroke a more consistent feel throughout the stroke. I'm only only speculating though.
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Offline bigpook

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 30 September 2008, 18:23:57 »
Don't know about crispness and I don't think it has a dead rubber feel either.  I could be wrong here but the HHKB is silent, unless you bottom out the keys, and only if the key is hit with enough force. However, there is some noise generated as you type quickly, but its not a clicky sound. Its more like a thock thock thock.
YMMV, as my hearing is not so good, it will mostly sound different to you.
There seems to be a fair amount amount of resistance as you begin to press down(which puts me at odds with the above mentioned post). It feels pretty conistent all the way down too. For me it is oddly pleasant experience. Its up there with my BS keyboards.
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Offline Ulysses31

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What is it about Filco keyboards?
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 06 October 2008, 07:23:01 »
Just a heads up; the Filco Tenkeyless with brown switches is finally back in-stock.

http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=15660
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