[IC] GMK Gladiator : GB starts April 15th! $129 Base kit with 13 new molds

[SxM Designs]

"What we do in life echoes in eternity!​"

WEBSITE

GB THREAD

This set has been inspired by the legends of the ancient Gladiators fighting for their honor and freedom! The major attraction of this set would be the color references to antique heavily patinaed armor, sand and blood.
With the novelties set, bring back the roars of the ancient colosseum to your board and get mesmerized in the battle of the gods. We have included two sets of accents : Sand accents by default represent the arena while the blood red accents (only Novs)
represent the actual battles fought there.

For updates to our current projects and future ones, please join our discord and follow us over Instagram at the links below.

   

Color Matching Steps

To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that

A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.


This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.
Also note : This idea is to make sure or try to at least make sure the color matching is faster. It does not necessarily mean that the set will skip the queue.

Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)



The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.

The base set contain 13 new Roman numerals molds. These are R1 1u and hence can be used either in the Numrow or in the F Rows. The Macros introduce Roman numeral macros plus traditional dual colored F Row mods.

Rudis aka Base kit                                                     Spectacula aka Novelties Kit

Columna aka Spacebars                                                        International Kit 

Numeri aka Numpad kit                                                      Armature aka Macros Kit

The Forgotten                                                     The Gladiator

Meandros  

Disclaimer : The keyboards are for visual purposes and are not included in the set. Colors in the final product may vary since renders are done under idealistic artificial lighting.

Dalco 956 by Hand Engineering

Maja by Vulcan

KBD8X MKII by Kbdfans

Nemui by Bachoo

Rotor by PopSmoke

EU        : Mykeyboard.eu          
UK        : Protozoa               
US        : Mechs & Co             
WORLD     : KBDFans                
CANADA    : Deskhero.ca            
OCEANIA   : Daily Clack            
SEA       : Ilumkb                 
KOREA     : Swagkeys               
JAPAN     : Yushakobo              
S.AMERICA : Fancy Customs          

   GB Date : 2022

Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic - > The Corinthian - Solid Bronze Keycap

Hibi X GMK Gladiator (Gold anodised alu)

Prototypes are being made by HIBI and pics will be posted whenever they are done and delivered to HIBI! Hopefully Soon!

Cables will be provided by Keebstuff Kabelmanufaktur and CableMods.

CableMods Cables!

Resin Artisans plus others Collab list coming soon!

If you want to support this project please add this signature and spread the word. Thanks 

To add a signature go to Profile -> Modify Profile -> Forum Profile -> Signature

Code: [Select]

[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=115551.0][img width=600 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/q2J7C9q.jpg[/img][/url]

Special thanks to Finite, Hoang, Sushii, Pnut and a lot of others for helping and supporting me through this!

[SxM Designs]

Reserved

[nvh2092]

 

[Samwise]

Nice set. I'll definitely buy a set!

[Bub]

personally i'd remove the normal latin numbers from base... its a lot of keys to have redundant on, and that's going to add a lot to the price of the kit. The roman numerals are a big driver of theme.

Since you're running separate numpad, be sure to include r1 =

also the nov kit is freakin' huge. I'd consider going a little slimmer to make it more accessible. 5 enter keys and two sets of arrows is a lot.

I have to say, the set's colors hit a little too close to GMK Norse. Maybe a color comparison chart might be nice in this case to show the difference.

[Kokaloo]

Ah, a whole extra novelties numrow in base that one set of can sit in the tray forever instead of 40s compatibility. That makes a ton of sense!
At least my little keyboards won't have to suffer with the centered legends accent numrow.

[paperassgasket]

cool.

no 40's, no buy.
do love to see dual 3u inclusion though. There's a whole lot of non 40's boards that have that, right?

[vishydesigns]

Love this so much, just wish it was dcs or something other than gmk. great renders btw, keycap texture is on point

[Kokaloo]

[AshF]

Love this set especially with that blood red novelties kit. Coming from the UK, it worries me how much kitting I'll end up having to buy...base plus novelties plus spacebar kit plus NUM pad kit. Then a desk mat for good measure. This can make or break a man!!
Hopefully you slim down the kit somewhat but don't loose the blood red kitting...that is just gorgeous.

Sent from my ASUS_I003D using Tapatalk

[joro1662]

blue samurai got another round? awesome.

[Cylent]

Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo

[nvh2092]

Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo

About that 1.75u novelty, it's caps lock.
About red arrows, I think it's just an secondary accent so arrows are optional

[dededecline]

-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?

I assume it's meant to be a caps lock novelty, though idk if those are popular enough to warrant inclusion in a GMK child kit

[Cylent]

Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo

About that 1.75u novelty, it's caps lock.
About red arrows, I think it's just an secondary accent so arrows are optional

Noted ty. I disagree regarding the red arrows though. If you can offer 4 arrow key options and 2 accent options you can afford to offer a red arrow key option.

[nvh2092]

-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?

I assume it's meant to be a caps lock novelty, though idk if those are popular enough to warrant inclusion in a GMK child kit

Novelty caps lock has been a part of all SxM sets since the beginning.

[SxM Designs]

personally i'd remove the normal latin numbers from base... its a lot of keys to have redundant on, and that's going to add a lot to the price of the kit. The roman numerals are a big driver of theme.

Since you're running separate numpad, be sure to include r1 =

also the nov kit is freakin' huge. I'd consider going a little slimmer to make it more accessible. 5 enter keys and two sets of arrows is a lot.

I have to say, the set's colors hit a little too close to GMK Norse. Maybe a color comparison chart might be nice in this case to show the difference.

Thanks for the nice comment

I will try to explain myself. Feel free to ask if I am unable to get my points across.

1. Every since I started with the kitting of this set I knew it was going to be tricky. There are a lot of options to considers and not everything can be covered.
   a. If I remove the normal Latin numbers from base --> I would basically be forcing people into using the Roman numerals which I dont really want to.
   b. If I remove the roman numbers and put it in another kit --> Custom colors and molds would drive the price of the kit to around $45+ ( assumption based on my other sets). So a person wanting to buy it would have to spend atleast $150-160 if they want to
       use the roman numerals. The base kit ( since it already contains customs colors and packaging costs are already included), would not really be more. At the end of the day, remember, I did all custom Hieroglyphic legends TKL base for $124.
2. Redundancy of keys : Yes we are adding 13 additional keys to the base. However, the idea is these keys can also be used for F Rows together with the regular num rows. At the end of the day, we always have extra keys lying around in our used sets never to be
    touched again. However, the main issue would be the price to performance ratio. No one would buy a $150 base if there are too many redundant keys but if the price can be kept at the lowest point, then I dont think people would care much.
3. Numpad : I will look into this.
4. Novelty kit : The highlight of all our set so far has been the novelty kit. Now, I really want to keep 2 accents. I am a pure ansi user and hence the mod ansi enter exist along with the accent ones. There is no real way to cut off one of the accents since I want to keep both the accents.
   b . The other way : Make a red accent kit : The same issue of price and logistics exists here. A person would just be spending a lot more if they wanted red accents.

Regarding price : All of our novelties kit has been freaking huge and at a very reasonable price. The goal is to continue that.

5. Norse : Norse has a whole different alphas colors (GMK BV) . Mods colors are close to our alphas but that does not make it same.
The mods in Norse is RAL 220 20 20 while ours is Black (GMK CR). The alphas in Norse is BV while ours is in a different color space. Moreover, The look and theme of both the kits are completely different.
However, We can think about making a comparison chart in the future.

I hope I could address all of your points.

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

[Kokaloo]

aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet

[SxM Designs]

Setting aside the fact that we have seen this colorway multiple times:

-Removing numpad from base in lieu of 2 numrows in base seems questionable.
-you're offering XIII, I assume as a stylized f13, but in a 75/80% it wouldn't line up with the function row. Just make the roman numerals function keys and use regular num row, which would allow 60/65/70% users to chose which number option to use, while keeping consistent with the theme.
-you have a R3 1.75 novelty but don't support 40s, why is this key in novelties?
-you're offering 4 different arrow key options across 3 kits, none of them in red...why? Doesn't make much sense imo

a. Gave an explanation already
b. This would mean I would be
    1 . forcing F rows to be novs. Some people might just not like the numerals to be their F rows.
    2. Mod colored 5-8 cant be used in traditional numrow / would not look pleasing. This would in turn mean I have to add 4 extra 5-8 alpha colored novs to make it consistent.
   In total I would be removing 12 standard GMK mold keys ( F rows) while adding 4 extra novs (black) roman numerals (5-8). Hence I am not reducing any price in the kit or even if I do its negligible in my opinion.
c. Standard capslock nov present in all my sets.
d. Novelty red arrows did not look good in the renders and did not pertain to my vision of the set.
    Please leave the feedback in the IC form. If enough people want red arrows I will add normal red arrows to the spacebar kit.

[Cylent]

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

I agree that separate 40s child kits aren't a good idea with GMK, but your explanation for rejecting 3 key that it "adds to the price" is cringe when you opted to have two sets of number row keys in the same base kit (and a whole set of unique molds that will likely be factored into the price), which will increase the cost much more than 3 key.

b. This would mean I would be
    1 . forcing F rows to be novs. Some people might just not like the numerals to be their F rows.
    2. Mod colored 5-8 cant be used in traditional numrow / would not look pleasing. This would in turn mean I have to add 4 extra 5-8 alpha colored novs to make it consistent.
   In total I would be removing 12 standard GMK mold keys ( F rows) while adding 4 extra novs (black) roman numerals (5-8). Hence I am not reducing any price in the kit or even if I do its negligible in my opinion.

1. Some people might not like the numerals to be their number row either, in which case they're eating the cost of 10 novelties anyways
2. Then make the XIII key F13 to be consistent.

[Visionaire]

aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet

Another IC. Another thread of your... antics. If you put as much effort into growing the 40s community as you do in these ICs, maybe there'd be enough purchasing power to warrant the kits.

[dededecline]

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

I don't disagree on cutting child kits that don't make MOQ. However, this is the very reason 3/4 key exists. The guidance generally given is that sets with 500-750 MOQ should utilize 3/4 key in base, and only sets with at least 1000 MOQ should add a 40s child kit since 40s attachment rate on GMK sets tends to be a little over 10% on average. I sympathize that Pharoah and Zen Pond struggled, but given that both had 500 MOQ I don't think anyone worth listening to would have advised those child kits.

[SxM Designs]

Now, another thing I want to address.
40s kits and why we wont include it.
40s in base would add the price which at the end we want to keep at a minimum.
40s separate kits don't sell.

Here are some logistics from our previous sales :

GMK Pharaoh :  We sold 58 kits --> 100 with extras for a total of 2k kits.
GMK Zen Pond : We sold 29 kits out of  2.3 k total base kits with extras. 40s was cancelled 1 week after GB was over.

The point here is to show that the percentage of people committing to a 40s kit is FAR TOO LESS and this just puts additional pressure on my vendors to buy out the kits.
There also remains the issue of set cancellations. People who buy with the 40s kits gets their order cancelled and then they have to just decide to cancel everything or live without 40s. Additionally every cancellation fees is eaten by the vendors.
I just dont want to put people I am working close with in such a scenario anymore and at the same time not give false hope to the people who want to buy a set with 40s support that end up getting cancelled.

I don't disagree on cutting child kits that don't make MOQ. However, this is the very reason 3/4 key exists. The guidance generally given is that sets with 500-750 MOQ should utilize 3/4 key in base, and only sets with at least 1000 MOQ should add a 40s child kit since 40s attachment rate on GMK sets tends to be a little over 10% on average. I sympathize that Pharoah and Zen Pond struggled, but given that both had 500 MOQ I don't think anyone worth listening to would have advised those child kits.

I completely agree with you. 1000 MOQ kits are only carried by big name vendors / big name designers. MOQ is decided on the relative hype, market situation and vendor capability. I would say the 40s attachment is no where close to 10% average if big names are not involved.
If I was not trying to add so much flexibility to the base kit and adding new things/ novs, 3/4 keys 40s support is a no brainer. But I am completely traumatized by the support of my two good performing sets (Pharaoh and Zen Pond) from the 40s perspective. Given 1-2% attachment rate to my previous sets, adding even $5 dollars more for 5 -10 people or even less ( assuming this sells 500 sets) is not logical from my point of view. Please note : This is just my experience talking and I have no issues with supporting 40s stuff.

[Fraaaan]

2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.

[Mecxs]

But I am completely traumatized by the support of my two good performing sets (Pharaoh and Zen Pond) from the 40s perspective.

Is this seriously your reason for not doing basic 40 support in base?

I'm not even going to mince words - mate that's straight up pathetic.

I've loved your previous designs, but this comment just made me lose any respect I had for you.

[maximize]

Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

[paperassgasket]

Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.

Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.

[fruitykeeb]

I don't understand a lot of the choices behind your kitting, so I'll just echo the same stuff a lot of the others have said.

3 numrows is wack.
no 40s at all or ever is such a weird stance to take when 3/4 key exists.
You have the 1u 0 key, so why omit a 1u 00 key? Also missing 1u enter for numpad.
Color choices and kitting for the spacebars is an odd one. I would imagine, since most of the accents are the "Sand Accents", you would include smaller bars in those sizes; instead we get a wide selection of alice/40s bars in dark blue, and dual 3u bars in dark blue (why). Besides Type K, I don't know if there are many other boards that support dual 3u besides 40s.
Two sets of "Sand Accent" arrows, no red arrows.

Lots of.. interesting choices in kitting here.

If it weren't for the lack of 40s and strange spacebars choices, I probably would have bought this set. I really like the color combinations chosen over blue samurai and the roman numerals are pretty neat.
Good luck with the IC, hopefully there are some changes coming.

[doggo1dance]

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

[Kokaloo]

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

[paperassgasket]

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

Just out of curiosity, how many is "so many sets?"
I assume you're referring to GMK since hitting MOQ with any other manu isn't a problem for child kits.
But which sets specifically? Because there's probably a good reason for each of them.
40's as a separate GMK kit doesn't work so great most of the time unless the designer has a focus or really good kitting advice that suits the set. Designers who don't understand 40's kitting will tend to assemble advice from several people into one (probably oversized) kit that winds up adding another 35-40% to the purchase cost.

...even still. You think 40's users don't show up, but I've got 6 sets I'm looking at right now that did just fine. Plus, I don't see any extras 40's kits sitting around in stock anywhere for any set that had to be saved by a vendor buying them out.

All this is kind of a moot point though. Like I said, GMK isn't very child kit friendly due to their cost and how their MOQ works. However, there is an easy solution. For about the price of an ISO enter, you can add a couple or three keys that give physical compat to the majority of 40's.

[SxM Designs]

2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.

For a base with new molds, having everything is not a possibility. I have added the accented enters and alice bars in other kits.
Regarding numpad : As I mentioned in my other comment adding = and 00 is not a problem if it is that necessary. This is what an IC is for.

Is this seriously your reason for not doing basic 40 support in base?

I'm not even going to mince words - mate that's straight up pathetic.

I've loved your previous designs, but this comment just made me lose any respect I had for you.

I am sorry you have to feel this way. I have always been transparent towards my actions/choices. But it necessarily does not need/ wont make everyone happy.
3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.

Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.

The IC is posted to get feedback on these situations. Custom colored base with extra molds cant have everything. If you feel everything is forced here, I am sorry. I am trying to make the kitting as flexible as possible at the lowest price.
Funnily enough, I have never used 40s but have never shyed away from supporting them. My other 2 kits had seperate child kits while epbt inkdrop has full 40s modifiers support. I am not trying to avoid or deliberately screw anyone here.

I don't understand a lot of the choices behind your kitting, so I'll just echo the same stuff a lot of the others have said.

3 numrows is wack.
no 40s at all or ever is such a weird stance to take when 3/4 key exists
You have the 1u 0 key, so why omit a 1u 00 key? Also missing 1u enter for numpad.
Color choices and kitting for the spacebars is an odd one. I would imagine, since most of the accents are the "Sand Accents", you would include smaller bars in those sizes; instead we get a wide selection of alice/40s bars in dark blue, and dual 3u bars in dark blue (why). Besides Type K, I don't know if there are many other boards that support dual 3u besides 40s.
Two sets of "Sand Accent" arrows, no red arrows.

Lots of.. interesting choices in kitting here.

If it weren't for the lack of 40s and strange spacebars choices, I probably would have bought this set. I really like the color combinations chosen over blue samurai and the roman numerals are pretty neat.
Good luck with the IC, hopefully there are some changes coming.

To reiterate :

1  Numrows : I have given an exact explanation up top why this has been done. I also discussed other kitting scenarios which were not feasible and gave an explanation.
2. 3/4 Key 40 support  is optional in any base kit. I have given an explanation on why its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).
3. 1u 00 keys are not widely used and can often be omitted. If enough people want 00, I can easily add it back. I have not seen/ recall to see a numpad 1u enter ever being done.
4. I think alphas colored mini bars are always preferred over accent colored ones. 3-1-3 is a better option to support in place of 6u off centered and hence.
5. Already answered about red arrows in a comment above. In short : red novs arrows did not look good in renders or pertain to my vision of the set. Normal red arrows can be added to the spacebar kit if enough people want it.

I am okay with changes. I will look into the IC form and analyze in a few weeks and decide from there. If enough people want change, I will definitely try to address them.

[SxM Designs]

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

Just out of curiosity, how many is "so many sets?"
I assume you're referring to GMK since hitting MOQ with any other manu isn't a problem for child kits.
But which sets specifically? Because there's probably a good reason for each of them.
40's as a separate GMK kit doesn't work so great most of the time unless the designer has a focus or really good kitting advice that suits the set. Designers who don't understand 40's kitting will tend to assemble advice from several people into one (probably oversized) kit that winds up adding another 35-40% to the purchase cost.

...even still. You think 40's users don't show up, but I've got 6 sets I'm looking at right now that did just fine. Plus, I don't see any extras 40's kits sitting around in stock anywhere for any set that had to be saved by a vendor buying them out.

All this is kind of a moot point though. Like I said, GMK isn't very child kit friendly due to their cost and how their MOQ works. However, there is an easy solution. For about the price of an ISO enter, you can add a couple or three keys that give physical compat to the majority of 40's.

I completely agree with you on the GMK child kits being annoyingly hard make it work part.
I agree with the solution as well. Its a very well known solution at this point. However, it does cost a bit more than the price of an ISO enter.
Roughly, from what I have seen its a extra $5. Its definitely not a lot.

However, from just actual numbers alone, this would be added to 90-95% of buyers who wont be ever using them.
Now, again from experience, its in our human nature to complain. Some scenarios I would like to explain.

A .No additional numrows novs in base + child kit numrow --> will end up costing more than $150. NO GO
B. Same kitting : Anything above $120-125+, people will start complaining.
C. Same kitting + 40s in base: $130+ and people will start complaining.

Just FYI : There are all guestimates on prices. Adding 3 keys more to the base is not impossible if the GMK quotes are good.

My goal is to make this kitting at the lowest price possible. This has always been my goal with the previous sets. If there is any room to add stuff, I wont hesitate.

[not_irc]

This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

[SxM Designs]

This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

[SxM Designs]

Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.

[not_irc]

This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Sorry, I meant adding them to the international package.
For example having the QEM and 4 keys seem quite boring to me. I'll make a suggestion then, later.

About control, shift enter etc, would it make more sense to make them "symbol" only... It kind of ruins the atmosphere, having english words... Not suggesting custom legends because they'll probably be super expensive.

[SxM Designs]

This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Sorry, I meant adding them to the international package.
For example having the QEM and 4 keys seem quite boring to me. I'll make a suggestion then, later.

About control, shift enter etc, would it make more sense to make them "symbol" only... It kind of ruins the atmosphere, having english words... Not suggesting custom legends because they'll probably be super expensive.

I will try to address this but looking at GMK kitting and pricing of international kits I can't promise anything.

Icon mods: Icon only mods wont be really fitting in this set nor does it portray the theme of the set / vision I want to achieve here. I think text icon mods looks the best for this set. Its just what I would like for this.

Anyways thanks for the suggestions I really appreciate it!

[Mecxs]

3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

Secondly, it's not $5.

The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.

It's childish.

[doggo1dance]

3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

Secondly, it's not $5.

The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.

It's childish.

playing the victim card again, typical 40s users

[Fredington]

Would like to see some crimson accents in base that aren't novelties.

[BloremBipsum]

very nice!

[SxM Designs]

3/4 Key 40 support is optional and not mandatory in any base kit. I gave you a reason why I think its an extra $5 for more than 95% of buyers (based on actual numbers).

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

Secondly, it's not $5.

The reason you're not doing 40s support is exactly as you said - you're upset that your previous kits didn't hit MOQ, and instead of reflecting a little bit on the fact that you're new to this and still learning (which is fine - nobody gives a ****, you've been doing well), you decided to vindictively blame the 40s community.

It's childish.

All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.

1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.
2. You go back to the point of me saying I was upset with the 40s sales in the last 2 hyped sets and now I am cauterizing a wound/ "vindictively blame the 40s community"?
   a. I have been pretty open about my ideas and why I do things.
   b. I gave no blame to the 40s community for not meeting 40s MOQ in my GMK sets. **** happens. We all know it!
   c. I was upset because there are some people who would buy a set for 40s support only to be disappointed because the kit did not meet MOQ and now they have to either cancel or live without the desired kit. Adding to this, the vendors are also pressured to
       either buy out or eat the refund costs. These were my reasons for being upset. I dont think I can be more clearer.
 
If it was not GMK, we would not have this conversation. I did 2 complete 40s mods kits for epbt inkdrop (still in IC). If I wanted to have a grudge against the 40s community, trust me, I would not have been bothered to make those for the community.

Lastly, I have already stated this multiple times and wont really explain more --> This is an IC. This is where we make changes. THE GB IS NOT NEXT WEEK. Go fill up the IC form. If enough people want 40s support I wont hesitate to add it.

[maximize]

Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.

Ignoring that “completely different” is a significant overstatement, I think you misunderstand what I mean. The general population is going to look at the two and see the similarity, regardless of what you see on your color-corrected monitor. And they will inevitably compare their options. It would be wise to consider that your sales may be impacted by this similar set that is readily available.

[SxM Designs]

Okay, so. The similarity with GMK Blue Samurai is undeniable. I like your legends/accent color and theme more, but I worry that you’ll have trouble meeting MOQ when Blue Samurai is either available in-stock or pre-order on Drop… basically all the time. Have you considered this may be an issue?

The Blue Samurai has a completely different alphas color and accents. While it uses blue and gold combo, this set uses a very dark teal and light beige/sand combo. I am using a color corrected monitor.
So I dont this this should be an issue.

Ignoring that “completely different” is a significant overstatement, I think you misunderstand what I mean. The general population is going to look at the two and see the similarity, regardless of what you see on your color-corrected monitor. And they will inevitably compare their options. It would be wise to consider that your sales may be impacted by this similar set that is readily available.

Dont get me wrong. I was just trying to explain the color are different enough. The general sentiment / feedback will come from the Interest Check form. This will help us determine the MOQ which we can easily achieve. It will take a lot of time to actually determine the amount of interest. At the end we should have the info required to go through!
I hope I could explain properly this time.

[Puddsy]

just covering a couple of things i read above

the 40s people are loud and complain a lot, but they do show up for the keys they want in GMK sets, unlike the ISO people. i think it is worth including 3-key 40s support in either the base or extension kit. it doesn't really make a difference in the price everyone will pay because of how vendors have been doing set pricing these days. it's not like 2017 where everyone was taking a 5% margin and not buying extras.

this set does look like blue samurai with roman numeral numrow, but i've seen sets that look like direct clones run without anyone saying anything so i don't think it matters anymore. clones are bad but i think this fits the bill of "different enough." if you want to keep the rome theme but avoid the clone accusations, you might get far by changing the blue to a purple. i think that would be really nice actually.

it would be good to add a normal numrow kit, or to move the roman legends into their own kit and put regular numbers in the base.

[kkd_20]

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.



NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER

[SxM Designs]

just covering a couple of things i read above

the 40s people are loud and complain a lot, but they do show up for the keys they want in GMK sets, unlike the ISO people. i think it is worth including 3-key 40s support in either the base or extension kit. it doesn't really make a difference in the price everyone will pay because of how vendors have been doing set pricing these days. it's not like 2017 where everyone was taking a 5% margin and not buying extras.

this set does look like blue samurai with roman numeral numrow, but i've seen sets that look like direct clones run without anyone saying anything so i don't think it matters anymore. clones are bad but i think this fits the bill of "different enough." if you want to keep the rome theme but avoid the clone accusations, you might get far by changing the blue to a purple. i think that would be really nice actually.

it would be good to add a normal numrow kit, or to move the roman legends into their own kit and put regular numbers in the base.

1 .40s in base / extensions : I would wait for the first quotes from GMK to actually see if that's possible in the current Kitting. Or, if enough people request it, we can change it asap. As I said, typically with a complex custom colored kit with new molds, the prices would anyways be high (assumption). This being one of the reasons why we chose a separate 40s kit for our last two sets. The goal is to have the lowest price in base kit possible.
Extension kit is also an option we can look into.
We have months of time left for this to actually go into GB. So changes, if necessary and wanted will be made.

2. Changing the color : I am fine with the colors. Everyone will see differently in their monitors and that can't be properly addressed. Since I am aware of the color differences and don't feel comfortable to change the complete color, I wont be doing so. I guess this wont really be an issue.

3. Adding normal numrow or roman legends in their own kit : The main issue here is again "another child kit MOQ" which needs to be met. This would have been the easiest solution. But the main driving factor / attraction here is the roman numerals. Keeping them in base is the cheapest option for most people to get it.

Thanks for the nice feedback. I hope I could answers your points. Nevertheless, this IC is one day old. I would need time to access the IC form responses and see what people actually want.
Then I would be making changes if necessary!!

[WithoutWeakness]

you can't fool me zambuman

Upvote

[WithoutWeakness]

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.

Show Image

NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER

This is rude. Downvote

[dededecline]

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.

Show Image

NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER

new copypasta just dropped

[SxM Designs]

Can we keep to a discussion instead of throwing mud around !!!

EDIT : When I mentioned "Welcome to the Arena" I never thought we would actually see such a scenario.

I request everyone to keep calm and please behave. Thanks

[paperassgasket]

Y'all stop telling OP to put 40's in base. I don't need an excuse to even consider this set.

Alice B in base with no minibars or numpad 0 to offer support (and forcing spacebars kit purchase), while eschewing 40's is kinda funny though.

The IC is posted to get feedback on these situations. Custom colored base with extra molds cant have everything. If you feel everything is forced here, I am sorry. I am trying to make the kitting as flexible as possible at the lowest price.
Funnily enough, I have never used 40s but have never shyed away from supporting them. My other 2 kits had seperate child kits while epbt inkdrop has full 40s modifiers support. I am not trying to avoid or deliberately screw anyone here.

Not accusing you of trying to screw anyone, I just thought it was an oversight including second B for Alice support with no 2u to cover the other spacebar. But you're saying it is a deliberate choice to force the purchase of either spacebars or numpad?

Now, saying you "never shyed away from supporting 40's" while also saying at the top of your IC that you won't add any form of 40's support is kind of at odds don't you think? I mean, I'm glad to see you backpeddling on it after some discussion, but it's still a pretty bold statement to make right up front.

Anywho, it appears that your primary objective here is to get custom molds made while selling as many base kits as possible. In that regard I wish you luck, but your biggest hurdle isn't going to be a adding a couple dollars to your base kit price. It's going to be GMK's long lead times. Adding new molds and 4 custom colors is going to obviously be the biggest contributing factor to not only cost, but time to produce this set.

[LaserCrafter]

watch this base kit be $150

[Fraaaan]

2 number rows in base but no numpad, no accented ISO enter, no Alice support and no 40s support. Numpad kit is also lacking r1 '=' an r4 '00' if you want to keep it separated for some reason.

For a base with new molds, having everything is not a possibility. I have added the accented enters and alice bars in other kits.
Regarding numpad : As I mentioned in my other comment adding = and 00 is not a problem if it is that necessary. This is what an IC is for.

Having everything (a numpad and 4 extra keycaps) is not a possibility but there's 2 numrows in the base kit? Do you realise how dumb that sounds?

[LaserCrafter]

Hi, does this keyset support this board?

[ManiacMarc]

Gimme plzzz.

[SxM Designs]

Hi, does this keyset support this board?

Probably its already covered! 

[nvh2092]

Hi, does this keyset support this board?

Probably its already covered!

[SxM Designs]

Changed the wording in the kitting section. Sadly I am not good with words. Paperassgasket was nice enough to reach out and basically explained why the words there, might have given the wrong impression on my stance. And I do agree.

I also added an option to vote for this in the IC form. This will give more concrete results!

So everyone, be polite and fill up the IC if you like the set and want some changes. I would give it a few weeks to see if any changes are at all necessary

Cheers!

[Mecxs]

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.

1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.

Sigh. Let me try to explain this simply.

1. You said that "over 95%" of people won't benefit from 3-key 40% support, and based that on sales percentages of 40s kits in your prior GMK runs.

2. I said "that extrapolation is wrong, because you can't assume that 100% of 40s users bought a 40s kit, because it was massively overpriced".

3. Then I said "look at these other sets that ran, where the percentage of buyers who bought 40s support is higher. That shows that the percentage of 40s users in the community is not, as you claimed, <5%."

4. At no point did I say "look, you should do ePBT kitting for your GMK 40s set", which is what you seem to have heard. This is purely about determination of what percentage of base kit buyers would potentially use 3-key support.

You are misinterpreting your data and falsely assuming that the percentage of users who want 40s support is equal to the percentage who bought 40s kits, which is flat out wrong.

Because you are then using that wrong conclusion to justify omitting basic 40s in base, I decided to explain to you why you are wrong in your interpretation of the data.

[NovaRMK]

GMK Blue Samurai Gladiator

[NovaRMK]

Show Image

aw jeez if only there was some solution to getting basic 40s compatibility without having to worry about another child kit hitting moq
maybe the community can come up with something in the future, but for now the technology just isn't there yet

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

Man kokaloo is NOT having it today 😭

get this man some 40s support ffs

[Magnificent Bureaucrat]

At least the subtitle to this thread is appropriate

[geohammy]

40s users are the loud minority, im sure this will run successfully with or without their support. kinda funny that so many sets and their 40s got cancelled due to low purchases. i'll like to see what happens to the 40s kit in this set (if it was ever introduced by OP) during gb.

you can't fool me zambuman

All I see is a grown up man-child screaming for mommy to get him a new toy.
Grow up and learn to respect and communicate with people properly. Bullying a designer is not the correct way. No wonder you guys are so often ignored.

NOW GO CRY ME A RIVER

[HappyB0T]

The set looks good - I like set.
The forced novelty number row is throwing me off. I tend to pick up 40 coverage if it is offered but daily drive 60-65s. I wouldn't expect the novelty numerals to be in the base but I get why someone who designed the set would make this choice. As a non-designer - I personally think having the numberpad + 3 key support in the base kit make more sense. Nerds who like the design of the novelties will buy it anyway. Annnnnnnd I think your numerals look great.

Your current kitting choice will be polarizing. I assume that throwing down a vanilla base kit would most likely translate to a better MOQ.
Forced novelties make more sense to me the way nephlock does it. Subtle.
You have a good design but I will be an easy pass if the base set is too pricy.
If you could get this set to GB at $135 you would need a pretty substantial moq.
Good luck Dood -

[paulgali]

I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base

[scoopbb]

when there was 1 gmk set running a month i really hated sets not having 40s kits. now there are so many damn sets running in colors that are basically a remix of the designers previous sets with a new gimmick its like who gives a ****, there are 5 other sets running at the same time.

[kahlilnc]

I dig it. I know you don't need another person to tell you the set is similar to Blue Samurai but I absolutely love the artisans.

[SxM Designs]

At least the subtitle to this thread is appropriate

Too appropriate for my liking 

[SxM Designs]

The set looks good - I like set.
The forced novelty number row is throwing me off. I tend to pick up 40 coverage if it is offered but daily drive 60-65s. I wouldn't expect the novelty numerals to be in the base but I get why someone who designed the set would make this choice. As a non-designer - I personally think having the numberpad + 3 key support in the base kit make more sense. Nerds who like the design of the novelties will buy it anyway. Annnnnnnd I think your numerals look great.

Your current kitting choice will be polarizing. I assume that throwing down a vanilla base kit would most likely translate to a better MOQ.
Forced novelties make more sense to me the way nephlock does it. Subtle.
You have a good design but I will be an easy pass if the base set is too pricy.
If you could get this set to GB at $135 you would need a pretty substantial moq.
Good luck Dood -

Thanks for the nice feedback.

The current kitting offers flexibility and does not force novelties F rows (which I never wanted anyways).
Whether I push numerals in the base or have another kit, people would complain either ways.
However, I know that adding the numerals to the base is the easiest and least expensive way to add them to the kit. A separate child kit would just cost too much to even consider doing these. ($115-120 base + $40+45 numerals kit --> $160+)
Hence the choice.

For adding the 40s 3 Key support : I have added an option for people to vote in the IC. Its fair and would give me more idea about what people really want.

From all my previous sets, my goal was always to add something new for the community for the lowest price possible. At the end of the day, I know what matters most is the final GB price with a good kitting.
There is no way I am going through if the base kit price is ridiculous. I wont design or offer something, that I (when I am consumer) wont buy. $135 is also the hard limit that I have for this. Hopefully GMK would be kind enough!

[SxM Designs]

I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base

I will try to explain in more depth here.

The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago  in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!

The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.


Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.

[paulgali]

I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base

I will try to explain in more depth here.

The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago  in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!

The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.


Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.

Generally speaking the 40s community will very often shout if it’s missing entirely. Bud, I want you to succeed, I hope you didn’t see my criticism as harsh, but nonetheless still criticism.

I entirely understand why you did the kitting like this. If it was up to me, I’d put the 3/4 basic keys required into the space kit, since you’ve committed to the vision with the alt numrow. At least you included it in base so we can see the vision (unlike cough red alert cough)

People always complain. Hey, me too, I’m able to admit that. Still, best of luck. I too hope GMK are nice to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SxM Designs]

I'm one of those that really doesn't like that 40s users complain about kitting when its not in base...

But I'm with them on this one. You have xt, novelties, spacebars. At the very least, those basic 3 keys should be added into the spacebars to form an extension. Ideally a small, inexpensive addon kit could be made to cover Ergo, ortho and 40s. You went out of your way to support NorDE, completely, but are not making 40s, of course you're going to piss off the 40s people

And 3 deskmats. THREE

I know and understand you have a vision for the set, but I don't see why you're trying to push the numrow down peoples throats. At the very least offer compatibility, it doesn't have to be in base

I will try to explain in more depth here.

The set was created months ago. The set went through some internal rounds of checking and validation. I officially published the IC about 3 weeks or 1 month ago  in various platforms and started receiving feedback.
The idea was to have a more polished set before submitting to Geekhack.
During all that time I had literally a couple of people asking me for 40s support in base.
I did not consider that GH would host more 40s voices than other platforms and it was never my intention to piss of a section of the community that I have supported and will keep supporting in the future!

The logical action was to add a section in the IC form where people can vote. I would check this in a few weeks and finalize my decision.


Please read my last comment on the numrow novs. If I want to include it anywhere, the least expensive option is the base kit. With a separate kit it would just be more expensive.. Then another set of people will come here and complain about being forced to buy too many kits.

Generally speaking the 40s community will very often shout if it’s missing entirely. Bud, I want you to succeed, I hope you didn’t see my criticism as harsh, but nonetheless still criticism.

I entirely understand why you did the kitting like this. If it was up to me, I’d put the 3/4 basic keys required into the space kit, since you’ve committed to the vision with the alt numrow. At least you included it in base so we can see the vision (unlike cough red alert cough)

People always complain. Hey, me too, I’m able to admit that. Still, best of luck. I too hope GMK are nice to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Constructive criticism has always helped me to grow in life. So I don't really mind people criticizing.  I would always try to explain my point and vision and at the same time listen to feedback to check if I missed something. This is what I have always done.
So no worries!!

Again, thanks a lot for the feedback!! I appreciate it a lot!

[goodyvee]

real simple guy i see what i like and i buy it

cant wait

[kiwoli]

As a numpad user, it just feels bad to pay extra for a kit that should be in base while there is a duplicate numrow.
I'm unsure of the argument for GMK sets to separate the numpad, the pricing just ends up being horrendous, so it becomes an easy decision to not buy into these sets.

[Lil Pai]

This is absolutely gorgeous. The addition of an international kit is such a chef's kiss. The literal only thing I would change is to include the numpad in the base kit.

[SxM Designs]

real simple guy i see what i like and i buy it

cant wait

Really glad you liked it!

As a numpad user, it just feels bad to pay extra for a kit that should be in base while there is a duplicate numrow.
I'm unsure of the argument for GMK sets to separate the numpad, the pricing just ends up being horrendous, so it becomes an easy decision to not buy into these sets.

This is absolutely gorgeous. The addition of an international kit is such a chef's kiss. The literal only thing I would change is to include the numpad in the base kit.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. A TKL base does cost numpad users more in total but saves a lot of money for the ones that dont really use it.
I would not design this set without adding the numrow novelties in the base (the least expensive option to add a full row of novs).
A Full base would definitely be at a price point ( >=$150) where most people would just not consider the set .

For all my sets, the emphasis is to have the good base kit pricing. Sadly, for this set as well, numpad cannot be added to the base in order to achieve that. I hope you understand and still consider the set!

[kameron]

some of those novelty tolerances look sketchy also add 3 key

[SxM Designs]

some of those novelty tolerances look sketchy also add 3 key

Not the first set with crazy novelties that I have done 
Everything is according to GMK standards. Don't worry about it!

3 Key : IC form has an option to add the 3 key support. Please fill it up. I will access after a few weeks and decide.

Thanks!!

[boneandbee]

LOVE the novelties and desk mats! and the color combo on this is so unique without being over the top. Great job, will be watching this with much interest. GLWIC!

[SxM Designs]

LOVE the novelties and desk mats! and the color combo on this is so unique without being over the top. Great job, will be watching this with much interest. GLWIC!

Thanks a lot!! Really glad you enjoyed this.

[spartaman64]

Firstly, it's not based on "actual numbers", it's based on the numbers of people who buy GMK 40s kits. As you'd have learnt if you asked before your previous sets, these kits almost never do well because they're ridiculously overpriced, which is why anyone would have told you to do 3-key 40s instead.

DSS 420 cancelled its 60% kit due to lack of sales, while its 40s kit hit MOQ. Does that mean nobody uses 60/65%? Of course not. You can't estimate how many people use certain layouts based on sales when covering one of those layouts costs up to $60 more than the other.

Manus with decent child-kit policies, like ePBT / KAM / KAT regularly sell 40s kits at ~15-20% of base kit sales. For some sets it's as high as 50/50 (eg, DSS Sencillo).

All I see here is you circumventing through my comments and logic and seeking a narrative that fits your ideas.

1. I repeatedly stated the point was to make sure 90-95% of the buyers dont pay for a support they dont need in a complicated custom colored GMK set. Notice : the highlighted part. I dont care about DSS/ epbt/KAT and other child kit friendly manu statistics. Stick to the manu of this set. Show me some stats which adhere to your ideas and contradict mine.

Sigh. Let me try to explain this simply.

1. You said that "over 95%" of people won't benefit from 3-key 40% support, and based that on sales percentages of 40s kits in your prior GMK runs.

2. I said "that extrapolation is wrong, because you can't assume that 100% of 40s users bought a 40s kit, because it was massively overpriced".

3. Then I said "look at these other sets that ran, where the percentage of buyers who bought 40s support is higher. That shows that the percentage of 40s users in the community is not, as you claimed, <5%."

4. At no point did I say "look, you should do ePBT kitting for your GMK 40s set", which is what you seem to have heard. This is purely about determination of what percentage of base kit buyers would potentially use 3-key support.

You are misinterpreting your data and falsely assuming that the percentage of users who want 40s support is equal to the percentage who bought 40s kits, which is flat out wrong.

Because you are then using that wrong conclusion to justify omitting basic 40s in base, I decided to explain to you why you are wrong in your interpretation of the data.

ok then as he said fill out the IC form and if enough people want 40s kit then maybe he will include it.
stop getting salty and putting words in people's mouth

[LittleAad]

I dislike how there is a roman numeral num row in base kit along with the standard num row. I think it would be wise to get rid of the roman numeral one and add a numpad to the base kit.

Novelties are very nice. Best of luck with IC and GB!

[SxM Designs]

I dislike how there is a roman numeral num row in base kit along with the standard num row. I think it would be wise to get rid of the roman numeral one and add a numpad to the base kit.

Novelties are very nice. Best of luck with IC and GB!

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you like the novelties!!

I have already explained my reasoning with respect to the roman numerals and this particular kitting. Please read my other comments.

Cheers!

[SxM Designs]

FYI : There were already a ton of feedback before I introduced the vote for 40s 3 key.
To make it fair, I allowed editing of responses in the IC form. So if you have filled the IC form before I introduced the 40s vote option, please edit your response.
I will be also making this announcement in other platforms and my server.

[stevenT]

Nice kit, are dark background  keycaps of R1 novelties black or teal? my screen is bad so I can not distinguished

[SxM Designs]

Nice kit, are dark background  keycaps of R1 novelties black or teal? my screen is bad so I can not distinguished

Glad you liked the set!!

The novelties are black

[Mr Chrome]

Novelties are very classy. IMO that and the teal-ish colour justify getting this over Samurai, but comparison is valid.

Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?

[Sainity]

I very much like what Mr Chrome has proposed here! The smaller roman numerals appear much less overbearing and fit in with the other characters of the set much better.

[SxM Designs]

Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?

Show Image

Thanks for the nice feedback! I am glad you like the set!

To answer you question : Yes I have tried going with that as well but sadly it did not fit my vision of the set.
Apart from that there are some other issues as well.
For example :
a. It would force the numrow to be roman numerals which some people might not like.
b. There would be no flexibility of using it as F rows.
c. Macro + kit would be  5 keys less yet more expensive with the requirement of new molds.
d. The base kit price wont be reduced by much.

I am aware that there are extra keys in the base but at the end of the day the flexibility you will have with the current kitting is much more.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your idea in a very nice way!

Cheers!!

[Mr Chrome]

Have you tried mucking around with Sanctuary Rebirth style roman numerals? Not sure if it would work with GMK tolerances (and it's probably more polarizing than what you've got lol) but keeping symbols and left alignment might cut down on the need for two numrows in base... maybe... possibly?

Show Image

a. It would force the numrow to be roman numerals which some people might not like.
b. There would be no flexibility of using it as F rows.
c. Macro + kit would be 5 keys less yet more expensive with the requirement of new molds.
d. The base kit price wont be reduced by much.

Ah, I see! I was mostly thinking of those who find only roman numerals too extreme, but it’s definitely true that the current kitting allows people to use those keys for F rows or macros and reduces macro kit cost.

Seems especially geared for TKL-ish users (which explains why it slipped my mind...), but I can understand some of the frustration around a lack of compatibility for any 40s use while allowing for “use what you think looks best” for others. I think keeping base kit $$$ low is important to justify buying this set with the added wait time and cost over Blue Samurai, but it’s good to hear you’re keeping all that in mind. GLWIC!

[SxM Designs]

Ah, I see! I was mostly thinking of those who find only roman numerals too extreme, but it’s definitely true that the current kitting allows people to use those keys for F rows or macros and reduces macro kit cost.

Seems especially geared for TKL-ish users (which explains why it slipped my mind...), but I can understand some of the frustration around a lack of compatibility for any 40s use while allowing for “use what you think looks best” for others. I think keeping base kit $$$ low is important to justify buying this set with the added wait time and cost over Blue Samurai, but it’s good to hear you’re keeping all that in mind. GLWIC!

Glad you understand! My main goal is keeping the base kit pricing reasonable enough for people to consider it.

[hussar_name]

- I would like to say that I don't like 40% keyboards, and I say it because at least we can agree on something from the start :-D the caps that the 40's gang want cost as much as 7 1u keycaps. Not cheap.

- can you ask GMK to provide some color samples?

- does GMK have a complete list of the doubleshot legends which available? maybe we can use something original

- please consider removing the english writings (shift, enter etc) and keeping symbols only. English language plus roman symbols seems like some kind of very wrong cultural cross - contamination.

[SxM Designs]

- I would like to say that I don't like 40% keyboards, and I say it because at least we can agree on something from the start :-D the caps that the 40's gang want cost as much as 7 1u keycaps. Not cheap.

- can you ask GMK to provide some color samples?

- does GMK have a complete list of the doubleshot legends which available? maybe we can use something original

- please consider removing the english writings (shift, enter etc) and keeping symbols only. English language plus roman symbols seems like some kind of very wrong cultural cross - contamination.

- I have not used a 40s keeb but it does not mean I don't like them or the community. My intention was always to make sure the base stays relatively cheap as per my vision.
  Currently its upto to the IC response for me to decide on whether to add the support or not.

- No. Thats not possible. Having an IC which transitions into a GB does not guarantee a successful one. To order samples, the GB needs to cross MOQ. It would be impossible for any company at a large scale to produce color sample for all ICs.

- No. There are no written lists. What do you mean by "something original" ?

- I have already discussed this. The numerals add a touch of the old roman culture to the set. However, the novelties set is what brings the whole set together in terms of theme. Having tried both iterations of icons mods and the current icon text mods,  I would say the current one looks much better in spite of having words not belonging to Latin.

[hussar_name]

English words on modifiers (instead of using just symbols) plus roman numbers = bleah

No color chip = bad bad bad

You'll add 40s keys because it's your last chance to appear accomodating.

I'm not joyning this.

[SxM Designs]

English words on modifiers (instead of using just symbols) plus roman numbers = bleah

No color chip = bad bad bad

You'll add 40s keys because it's your last chance to appear accomodating.

I'm not joyning this.

Sorry to disappoint you but it is what it is.

Ultimately, the designs are focused on the entire keeb community. If you feel, that I am doing anything to or will do anything to " appear accommodating" to a certain section, then you are too wrong and naïve.

Moreover, I wont be able to satisfy everyone nor will I try to. I have given enough explanations behind my actions (kitting) and at the end of the day its upto the individual person whether they will accept or reject it.
The results of the IC will surely be published to give more credibility to whatever actions I decide on.
There is no need to assume anything.

I hope that clears up any confusion that you might have. Have a nice day

[Dotnick]

Firstly, I think this is a really cool set that I can tell you have put many hours into and are passionate about.

From what I can tell, it seems like there is a mixture of intentions here of OP wanting to be adventurous/imaginative in kitting choices and the community feedback wanting OP to be much more practical in kitting decisions. Being innovative as a keyset designer is absolutely okay and necessary in my eyes, but not at the cost of real compatibility (something I learned the hard way as well).

Honestly, some sets can get away with being adventurous because the risks taken in weird key inclusion/theming are still functionally practical and don't undermine the exclusion of other keys (40s support, accent ISO, accent arrows in base in this set). From personal experience in designing a set that is trying to do some weird stuff, I understand why OP is protective of his inclusions and also understand the perspective on why the exclusions are not fair/practical.

I think there are two decent compromises here that would appease both sides (in order of which I think is best in the present situation):

1) Switch to PBT - From my perspective, it seems that the kitting decisions you want to take are almost better suited to decisions one would make in the context of a dye-sublimated set. While most of this would be reverse dye-sub, I think this is seriously a viable option here especially with better PBT options opening up in the last year. MilkyWay has good reverse dye-sub even though the alignment of legends is off a bit atm, but the latter can be fixed rather easily. The shift to dye-sub would also allow you to move things around more easily; main example being that you could put 3/4 key 40s support in base and move the roman numeral keys to the novelties or macros kit while keeping everything fairly affordable on all accounts. I also think that a set with this many kitting liberties could really suffer in the current GMK climate as well (not knocking the interest you are receiving or your work at all here, more just speaking on the current state of the market).

2) Stick with GMK - Put 40s into the base kit and move the roman numerals to the novelties or the macros kit. The number one goal should be to get the base kit to MOQ, and I would be worried right now about the pricing of the base kit along with the controversial decisions being made in this current GMK climate. This would dramatically reduce the cost of the base kit and possibly allow for other inclusions like accent ISO or accent arrows in the base kit. The novelties kit currently requires 20 new molds, while the macros kit requires 12 new molds (not including the redundant keys from the molds required for the roman numerals currently in base). To me, the macros kit seems the better option here for a couple reasons. First, you would be condensing all of the interest in the roman numerals into this one kit if they were all in one place. I think this is less risky for the set as a whole, as you would only jeopardize one kit making MOQ rather than the whole base kit itself. Second, you would also be condensing the use of the same molds into one kit and incentivize the macros kit to be made at the same time. This is a minor benefit but still worth noting. I think if you are worried that the roman numerals wouldn't make MOQ organically as a child kit, I'm not sure how you can have confidence that the macros kit, as is, will make MOQ. Especially given that traditional macros kit only make MOQ if the set is extremely hyped or guaranteed buyout, and that your macros kit not only features nontraditional legends that require new molds but also has extra 'novelty'-like keys (objectively). Both of these increase the cost of the kit substantially.

-- side tangent on the red accent arrows: there is a knock-on effect if roman numerals are moved out of the base kit that would favor the inclusion of red arrows in the set. The tan accent arrows can move into the base kit from the spacebars kit, which would then make room for red arrows in the spacebars kit.

I am absolutely not telling you what to do here, just taking a civil approach at trying to help and provide you with options. I hope you consider my feedback and even if you don't, GLWIC/GB.

There's probably a lot I missed, pls forgive.

[stevenT]

Firstly, I think this is a really cool set that I can tell you have put many hours into and are passionate about.

From what I can tell, it seems like there is a mixture of intentions here of OP wanting to be adventurous/imaginative in kitting choices and the community feedback wanting OP to be much more practical in kitting decisions. Being innovative as a keyset designer is absolutely okay and necessary in my eyes, but not at the cost of real compatibility (something I learned the hard way as well).

Honestly, some sets can get away with being adventurous because the risks taken in weird key inclusion/theming are still functionally practical and don't undermine the exclusion of other keys (40s support, accent ISO, accent arrows in base in this set). From personal experience in designing a set that is trying to do some weird stuff, I understand why OP is protective of his inclusions and also understand the perspective on why the exclusions are not fair/practical.

I think there are two decent compromises here that would appease both sides (in order of which I think is best in the present situation):

1) Switch to PBT - From my perspective, it seems that the kitting decisions you want to take are almost better suited to decisions one would make in the context of a dye-sublimated set. While most of this would be reverse dye-sub, I think this is seriously a viable option here especially with better PBT options opening up in the last year. MilkyWay has good reverse dye-sub even though the alignment of legends is off a bit atm, but the latter can be fixed rather easily. The shift to dye-sub would also allow you to move things around more easily; main example being that you could put 3/4 key 40s support in base and move the roman numeral keys to the novelties or macros kit while keeping everything fairly affordable on all accounts. I also think that a set with this many kitting liberties could really suffer in the current GMK climate as well (not knocking the interest you are receiving or your work at all here, more just speaking on the current state of the market).

2) Stick with GMK - Put 40s into the base kit and move the roman numerals to the novelties or the macros kit. The number one goal should be to get the base kit to MOQ, and I would be worried right now about the pricing of the base kit along with the controversial decisions being made in this current GMK climate. This would dramatically reduce the cost of the base kit and possibly allow for other inclusions like accent ISO or accent arrows in the base kit. The novelties kit currently requires 20 new molds, while the macros kit requires 12 new molds (not including the redundant keys from the molds required for the roman numerals currently in base). To me, the macros kit seems the better option here for a couple reasons. First, you would be condensing all of the interest in the roman numerals into this one kit if they were all in one place. I think this is less risky for the set as a whole, as you would only jeopardize one kit making MOQ rather than the whole base kit itself. Second, you would also be condensing the use of the same molds into one kit and incentivize the macros kit to be made at the same time. This is a minor benefit but still worth noting. I think if you are worried that the roman numerals wouldn't make MOQ organically as a child kit, I'm not sure how you can have confidence that the macros kit, as is, will make MOQ. Especially given that traditional macros kit only make MOQ if the set is extremely hyped or guaranteed buyout, and that your macros kit not only features nontraditional legends that require new molds but also has extra 'novelty'-like keys (objectively). Both of these increase the cost of the kit substantially.

-- side tangent on the red accent arrows: there is a knock-on effect if roman numerals are moved out of the base kit that would favor the inclusion of red arrows in the set. The tan accent arrows can move into the base kit from the spacebars kit, which would then make room for red arrows in the spacebars kit.

I am absolutely not telling you what to do here, just taking a civil approach at trying to help and provide you with options. I hope you consider my feedback and even if you don't, GLWIC/GB.

There's probably a lot I missed, pls forgive.

good point, I just wonder if the pbt manufacture is capable of producing the novelties, giving schedule of GMK(from what I see about 18 months) not to mention the time for color check, pbt is worth considering.

Personally I think base kit looks better with light background alphas(gray for example) and dark abs looks bad when it shines but there have been many white alpha keyset. Let's wait and see the ic result.

[santela]

Damn this thread got spicy. I agree the kitting isn't ideal but Jesus some people aren't raised with proper manners.

[HYTE-Eddie]

Bookmarking this set for sure!  Only request would be to have a key with "This is Sparta" on it, like the Delete key or Enter Key 

[SxM Designs]

Firstly, I think this is a really cool set that I can tell you have put many hours into and are passionate about.

From what I can tell, it seems like there is a mixture of intentions here of OP wanting to be adventurous/imaginative in kitting choices and the community feedback wanting OP to be much more practical in kitting decisions. Being innovative as a keyset designer is absolutely okay and necessary in my eyes, but not at the cost of real compatibility (something I learned the hard way as well).

Honestly, some sets can get away with being adventurous because the risks taken in weird key inclusion/theming are still functionally practical and don't undermine the exclusion of other keys (40s support, accent ISO, accent arrows in base in this set). From personal experience in designing a set that is trying to do some weird stuff, I understand why OP is protective of his inclusions and also understand the perspective on why the exclusions are not fair/practical.

I think there are two decent compromises here that would appease both sides (in order of which I think is best in the present situation):

1) Switch to PBT - From my perspective, it seems that the kitting decisions you want to take are almost better suited to decisions one would make in the context of a dye-sublimated set. While most of this would be reverse dye-sub, I think this is seriously a viable option here especially with better PBT options opening up in the last year. MilkyWay has good reverse dye-sub even though the alignment of legends is off a bit atm, but the latter can be fixed rather easily. The shift to dye-sub would also allow you to move things around more easily; main example being that you could put 3/4 key 40s support in base and move the roman numeral keys to the novelties or macros kit while keeping everything fairly affordable on all accounts. I also think that a set with this many kitting liberties could really suffer in the current GMK climate as well (not knocking the interest you are receiving or your work at all here, more just speaking on the current state of the market).

2) Stick with GMK - Put 40s into the base kit and move the roman numerals to the novelties or the macros kit. The number one goal should be to get the base kit to MOQ, and I would be worried right now about the pricing of the base kit along with the controversial decisions being made in this current GMK climate. This would dramatically reduce the cost of the base kit and possibly allow for other inclusions like accent ISO or accent arrows in the base kit. The novelties kit currently requires 20 new molds, while the macros kit requires 12 new molds (not including the redundant keys from the molds required for the roman numerals currently in base). To me, the macros kit seems the better option here for a couple reasons. First, you would be condensing all of the interest in the roman numerals into this one kit if they were all in one place. I think this is less risky for the set as a whole, as you would only jeopardize one kit making MOQ rather than the whole base kit itself. Second, you would also be condensing the use of the same molds into one kit and incentivize the macros kit to be made at the same time. This is a minor benefit but still worth noting. I think if you are worried that the roman numerals wouldn't make MOQ organically as a child kit, I'm not sure how you can have confidence that the macros kit, as is, will make MOQ. Especially given that traditional macros kit only make MOQ if the set is extremely hyped or guaranteed buyout, and that your macros kit not only features nontraditional legends that require new molds but also has extra 'novelty'-like keys (objectively). Both of these increase the cost of the kit substantially.

-- side tangent on the red accent arrows: there is a knock-on effect if roman numerals are moved out of the base kit that would favor the inclusion of red arrows in the set. The tan accent arrows can move into the base kit from the spacebars kit, which would then make room for red arrows in the spacebars kit.

I am absolutely not telling you what to do here, just taking a civil approach at trying to help and provide you with options. I hope you consider my feedback and even if you don't, GLWIC/GB.

There's probably a lot I missed, pls forgive.

Hi!! Thanks for the nice and thorough feedback. I really appreciate it!

1. PBT : To be honest, if I wanted to designs epbt/MW or pbt dye sub kit in general, my approach from the start would have been way different. GMK has tedious specifications which were adhered to when designing this. On the other hand dye sub does not. If I wanted to change manu I would probably have to start from scratch to satisfy my ideas.

2. The first and foremost thing is to get an idea what my kiting will cost and if its even producible in a defined cost range. If GMK says this will cost really high, then this kitting is out of question and I will start from the beginning with more traditional choices.
However, I would first like to try out my ideas and see if I can manage to.

Coming to your idea : This is another solution which is possible. In all honesty, just removing the novelties from the base opens up a lot of possibility. You have described quite nicely one of the fallback kitting scenarios which will work in case I need to scrap this. However, as I have already discussed, the point of this kitting is to introduce new molds at the lowest price possible. Having a macros+ child kit with new molds will definitely be more expensive (combined with the base) to buy.

-The Macros kit was designed to use the molds from the base and hence would be more competitively priced. The set was already out in the open for a few weeks before the Geekhack IC. I have collected feedback and discussed the kits with vendors. However, I understand its not possible to know the background info/work from just the IC post.

- 40s inclusion: The optional 3key support will be added if there is a want for it.
- Red arrows : I did not liked how they looked and hence the choice. If enough people want it adding 4 X 1u wont really matter a lot in the final pricing.

In any case, the main points here is that the current kitting makes sure the most user base get a set of additional novelties in the base kit without having to pay the price of a child kit. Its simple and effective. If GMK quotes really high then the idea wont work and I will switch back to a traditional TKL/full base kitting.

I am not good with words. I hope I could explain myself here.

[SxM Designs]

Bookmarking this set for sure!  Only request would be to have a key with "This is Sparta" on it, like the Delete key or Enter Key 

Thanks for the love!!
Please put your ideas in the IC form. Then its easier for me to evaluate later if we can add some stuff 

[2Moons]

This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Language packs are not a thing because people just don't do them. Not that one should go into this set but I think more packs should be offered if they go along with the theme or kitting. Have a set with hiragana or an anime theme? Why not offer a JIS kit? I wouldn't add it if they were new legends but if there is no up front extra cost to you, I think it can enhance the theme if done right. Personally, I hope we see more of this kind of thing in the future. Some of it is happening though. GMK Teradrive is a really good example of this. When it comes to the current kitting though, you're the designer so do what you want.

[nvh2092]

This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Language packs are not a thing because people just don't do them. Not that one should go into this set but I think more packs should be offered if they go along with the theme or kitting. Have a set with hiragana or an anime theme? Why not offer a JIS kit? I wouldn't add it if they were new legends but if there is no up front extra cost to you, I think it can enhance the theme if done right. Personally, I hope we see more of this kind of thing in the future. Some of it is happening though. GMK Teradrive is a really good example of this. When it comes to the current kitting though, you're the designer so do what you want.

you know he's talking about MOQ, right?

[SxM Designs]

This could benefit from an italian language pack, would that be doable?

Specific language packs with GMK is not possible sadly.

Language packs are not a thing because people just don't do them. Not that one should go into this set but I think more packs should be offered if they go along with the theme or kitting. Have a set with hiragana or an anime theme? Why not offer a JIS kit? I wouldn't add it if they were new legends but if there is no up front extra cost to you, I think it can enhance the theme if done right. Personally, I hope we see more of this kind of thing in the future. Some of it is happening though. GMK Teradrive is a really good example of this. When it comes to the current kitting though, you're the designer so do what you want.

People dont do them because of them not having enough popularity and hitting MOQ.
Not hitting MOQ does not necessarily mean that there is no demand. The current GMK pricing structure is weird. Smaller child kits struggle to hit MOQ because the small groups of people needing those kits dont find it reasonable to spend so much on a small child kit.

From a designers POV, I can make as many kits as I want but vendors would never agree to run them. When a child kit gets cancelled, they have to refund the money and its a logistic hell hole.

From a different manu POV, example epbt, a lot of designers support multiple  child kits because there is no MOQ on them. So even if 5 kits sell during the GB, its fine.

I hope I could explain myself.

[apapxd]

yes please

[SxM Designs]

yes please

Glad you liked it!

[Beesley]

Love this set and the deskmats, must buy!

[SxM Designs]

Love this set and the deskmats, must buy!

Really appreciate it!!

Happy new year all!

[c0d3r]

love this set, when will be a GB?

[SxM Designs]

love this set, when will be a GB?

In a couple of months hopefully!!!

[Yuinth]

This set loooks great. Really like the combination of colors and the novelties. Looking forward for the GB.

GLWIC & GB

[xmaviik]

Any idea to add ISO-PT support for the international kit @SxM Designs? Thanks

[SxM Designs]

This set loooks great. Really like the combination of colors and the novelties. Looking forward for the GB.

GLWIC & GB

Thanks for the love!!

Any idea to add ISO-PT support for the international kit @SxM Designs? Thanks

Sadly no plans to extend the international kit. Sorry!

[norb]

nice colorway and badass novelties, count me in! 

[Fredington]

Have you tried traditional cherry legend placement for the Roman numerals? I think that would give it a more cohesive look.

[Banned]

Anotha one

[SxM Designs]

nice colorway and badass novelties, count me in! 

Thanks for the love!!!

Have you tried traditional cherry legend placement for the Roman numerals? I think that would give it a more cohesive look.

We tried that at very initial stages. But in the end, the current iteration is bolder than if we had aligned the legends.

[whee74]

love the colorways and the deskmats. in addition those renders are really something else!

[SxM Designs]

love the colorways and the deskmats. in addition those renders are really something else!

Really happy you liked the set! We worked really hard on the renders Great to see the effort getting noticed!

[Thon]

reserved and creamed

[SxM Designs]

reserved and creamed

lmao

[SxM Designs]

We have a ton of collabs planned including some sick metal ones. More to be shown in the coming days!

Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic!



In the III century BC, Greek warlord Phyrrus almost conquered Rome.
But 'almost' makes a grave difference.
Few centuries later, the only thing left for Greek warriors was to fight in the Roman arena.
The Corinthian - Solid Bronze Keycap from KeyRelic

[dvllpxe]

We have a ton of collabs planned including some sick metal ones. More to be shown in the coming days!

Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic!

Show Image

holy dog yep

[sup3r170va]

We have a ton of collabs planned including some sick metal ones. More to be shown in the coming days!

Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic!



In the III century BC, Greek warlord Phyrrus almost conquered Rome.
But 'almost' makes a grave difference.
Few centuries later, the only thing left for Greek warriors was to fight in the Roman arena.
The Corinthian - Solid Bronze Keycap from KeyRelic

Show Image

thanks, this looks cool. how does it look mounted tho? it seems like it might interfere with the surrounding caps.

[AshF]

Looks amazing!
Almost looks like the Blacksmith in Mandolorian

Sent from my ASUS_I003D using Tapatalk

[SxM Designs]

holy dog yep

You bet

Looks amazing!
Almost looks like the Blacksmith in Mandolorian

Sent from my ASUS_I003D using Tapatalk

Thanks!!

We have a ton of collabs planned including some sick metal ones. More to be shown in the coming days!

Presenting our first collab with KeyRelic!



In the III century BC, Greek warlord Phyrrus almost conquered Rome.
But 'almost' makes a grave difference.
Few centuries later, the only thing left for Greek warriors was to fight in the Roman arena.
The Corinthian - Solid Bronze Keycap from KeyRelic

Show Image

thanks, this looks cool. how does it look mounted tho? it seems like it might interfere with the surrounding caps.

Not really. We have the protos made already. I will try to get some videos from KeyRelic for you all:)

[SxM Designs]

thanks, this looks cool. how does it look mounted tho? it seems like it might interfere with the surrounding caps.

Here you go!

[WarlordGorguts]

KeyRelic artisan, just wow

[SxM Designs]

Color Matching Steps

To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that

A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.

This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.

Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)



The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.

[stevenT]

Color Matching Steps

To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that

A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.

This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.

Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)

Show Image

Show Image

The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.

How is that possible? I think the steps should be gb -> color matching -> production -> shipping, since there is chance the gb won't meet moq.

[SxM Designs]

Color Matching Steps

To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that

A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.

This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.

Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)

Show Image

Show Image

The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.

How is that possible? I think the steps should be gb -> color matching -> production -> shipping, since there is chance the gb won't meet moq.

The steps are still as you described.
However, instead of giving GMK a color code if the GB is successful, I will provide them a colored plastic sample which they need to match.

[RoyalOak88]

I think this is a really good idea and could improve a lot the GMK queue if other designers did the same.

[SxM Designs]

I think this is a really good idea and could improve a lot the GMK queue if other designers did the same.

Thanks!! Thats the goal

[MSA_Vision]

Color Matching Steps

To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that

A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.

This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.

Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)

Show Image

Show Image

The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.

This is definitely interesting, are the samples you’ve sourced also ABS or do they use another material?

Either way if GMK is accommodating to this request and this works, it could simplify or speed up the colour matching procedure and it’d very beneficial for the community in the long run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SxM Designs]

Color Matching Steps

To make things easier and faster for GMK to color match, I have been working to get actual color sample in plastic to be produced and sent to GMK. What this will mean is that

A. GMK does not have to match paper color codes to plastic
B. GMKs color matching is really good and getting a close match plastic to plastic would be definitely faster and more efficient.
C. Hopefully without the need for further color matching rounds, the set would be queued up faster.

This is my way of making sure this is done right. I hope you guys like it.

Samples already made for reference ( Please note these are not with me yet and the pics are taken under bad lighting)

Show Image

Show Image

The blue green came out absolutely gorgeous and so did the sandy beige. I will ofcourse revalidate the samples when it reaches me before sending to GMK.

This is definitely interesting, are the samples you’ve sourced also ABS or do they use another material?

Either way if GMK is accommodating to this request and this works, it could simplify or speed up the colour matching procedure and it’d very beneficial for the community in the long run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks
Well honestly, I  dont think the exact composition of the material is no way necessary to get a good color match. Also, I dont have the samples at hand and I will update when I get them.
My point heavily stresses on the fact, it is easier to do a color match plastic : plastic instead of paper: plastic.

[MaxineCh]

https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/svmchl/ic_gmk_gladiator_update_color_matched_samples/

Color Matching :
This is the longest time taking process in the cycle. Matching from a paper code (in case of RAL) to plastic is really difficult and takes different iterations. Everyone is annoyed with a set taking more than a year.

 

[SxM Designs]

Thanks Appreciate it

[SxM Designs]

Presenting our cable collab with CableMods!!



Make more collabs to be revealed soon!

[dokternik]

This is art. My oodness... So mesmerizing that I didn't spell goodness right.

[SxM Designs]

This is art. My oodness... So mesmerizing that I didn't spell goodness right.

Glad you love the design Really appreciate it!!

[kkd_20]

Any update on GB date??

[SxM Designs]

Any update on GB date??

Just waiting on GMK. Should be very soon!!!

[kkd_20]

Any update on GB date??

Just waiting on GMK. Should be very soon!!!

 

[Gorg]

Looks sick would use this hundred perecnt if it came out. Like the historica aspects of it

[SxM Designs]

Looks sick would use this hundred perecnt if it came out. Like the historica aspects of it

Thanks We start GB very soon!

[SxM Designs]

Presenting the yvk studios X GMK Gladiator spacebar
Material : tropical rosewood & maple (infill resin)
6.25 and 7


Will be available during the GB from the regional vendors.

[dvllpxe]

Presenting the yvk studios X GMK Gladiator spacebar
Material : tropical rosewood & maple (infill resin)
6.25 and 7

Show Image

Will be available during the GB from the regional vendors.

(✷‿✷)

[SxM Designs]

(✷‿✷)

[SxM Designs]

Some new renders for the spacebars just came in. So I have to share the epicness!

[nvh2092]

Request for renders on grey iron 165 with full novelties: red esc + red enter novelies + red bar + black arrow novelty.

[Shunx]

Please make the blue darker than existing blue samurai at least.  It is pointless to have new identical set that already available stocked up on the market.

[SxM Designs]

Please make the blue darker than existing blue samurai at least.  It is pointless to have new identical set that already available stocked up on the market.

What blue? Its a deep green blue while the samurai is just blue.
But I can imagine your problem. The lighting and various monitor screens would just project the color in multiple ways.
I would advice you to look at the IC from another monitor or something, since colors will vary with different monitors.

[Shunx]

Please make the blue darker than existing blue samurai at least.  It is pointless to have new identical set that already available stocked up on the market.

What blue? Its a deep green blue while the samurai is just blue.
But I can imagine your problem. The lighting and various monitor screens would just project the color in multiple ways.
I would advice you to look at the IC from another monitor or something, since colors will vary with different monitors.

Maybe.. I will definitely get this if you do it darker. What hold me back to get samurai set is their blue seems to be bright in real. Wished you could produce darker version.

[SxM Designs]

Maybe.. I will definitely get this if you do it darker. What hold me back to get samurai set is their blue seems to be bright in real. Wished you could produce darker version.

Actually its pretty dark. The pic has bad lighting and its darker in real life. This is not a sample from GMK but we want GMK to match to this color.



Sadly, we wont be going any more dark since it will clash with the black modifiers.

[Shunx]

Gmk color match usually comes out brighter. I hope you aware of it. Take a look at GMK Deep Navy GB in the past..

[SxM Designs]

Gmk color match usually comes out brighter. I hope you aware of it. Take a look at GMK Deep Navy GB in the past..

Yeah I have received GMK samples before (other sets). If a certain color comes brighter, a designer would just ask for a new round of samples with a darker tone.
I dont know what happened with Deep Navy and how its color matching was done. However, ( not trying to disrespect the designer/renderer), the renders were abysmal.
In any case, my point being, if a particular sample is too light, a designer can always ask for another round of color matching.

[SxM Designs]

Quotes has been received!
I will update later with vendor pricing and GB dates. Currently slated to run in April.

[傻子]

Former GMK GBs running on KBDFANs are prohibitively high， wonder if this could happen to Gladiator too。

[SxM Designs]

Former GMK GBs running on KBDFANs are prohibitively high， wonder if this could happen to Gladiator too。

If you are talking about different pricing at Kbdfans, its because of the Chinese taxes.

[granola bar enthusiast]

looks almost identical to blue samurai but I like the down saturated look!

[bshendy]

"The gods favor you. Red is the gods' color. You will need their help today."

Main color of the kit is blue   

[SxM Designs]

"The gods favor you. Red is the gods' color. You will need their help today."

Main color of the kit is blue   

Main color of the set is blueish green.

[SxM Designs]

The GB will start April 15th.

I will update with the pricing list as soon as all the vendors update!

[Doctor Robert]

Great kit! Love the colours. Since there has been, and might be again, a discussion on the numerals, I would like to point out that Roman and latin numerals are the same thing (or rather, Latin numerals are the words in Latin used by ancient Romans). The numerals most of the western world use every day are usually called Arabic numerals. 

[SxM Designs]

For the people who are interested in the Keyrelic Artisan, here are some proto usage video!!

[L4ll1g470r]

Very nice, will get and possibly for my Roman-mad younger relative, as well. Love the Keyrelic artisan, great way of showcasing it.

[SxM Designs]

Very nice, will get and possibly for my Roman-mad younger relative, as well. Love the Keyrelic artisan, great way of showcasing it.

Thanks for the love!

[SxM Designs]

GMK Gladiator X Keyrelic : The Emperor



GB starts April 15th!

[ZAND4]

Looks superb. Will be in af

[SxM Designs]

Looks superb. Will be in af

Glad you like the design and I appreciate the support!!!

[SxM Designs]

GMK Gladiator US (Mechs and Co) pricing revealed!!  GB starts 15th April

Base: $129
Intl. Kit: $53
Novelties: $59
Numbpad: $39
Macro Kit: $30
Spacebars: $39
Deskmat: $20

[SxM Designs]

Update

Revealed Hibi metal artisans
Revealed Cablemod cables collab

More artisan collab to come! Soon!

Hope you have enjoyed so far!

[SxM Designs]

GB starts in 3 days!

[SxM Designs]

GB starts in 1 day!

[SxM Designs]

GB Thread is up! Set goes live in a few hours!

[SxM Designs]

This set has been inspired by the legends of the ancient Gladiators fighting for their honor and freedom!  [/size][/b]

Click on your regional vendor to be redirected to the buy page!

EU        : Mykeyboard.eu          
UK        : Protozoa               
US        : Mechs & Co             
WORLD     : KBDFans                
CANADA    : Deskhero.ca            
OCEANIA   : Daily Clack            
SEA       : Ilumkb                 
KOREA     : Swagkeys               
JAPAN     : Yushakobo              
S.AMERICA : Fancy Customs          

[SxM Designs]

IC is locked! Please use the GB Thread for further updates.