Author Topic: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)  (Read 29526 times)

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Offline Halverson

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 28 January 2017, 00:08:15 »
Sorry if I missed it, but what kind of prices we looking at approximately at this high MOQ?

the switch per-se is not terribly expensive, the problem is that we need new keycaps, stabs, plates, case, ....

Matt3o: Are you planning on designing your own cases?  Or will these drop into standard "MX" ones?

we need a whole new case, yes. Technically it works on a cherry mx switch plate, but it's not a perfect fit.

Hmmmmm hopefully plans for a kit come up someday :)
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #101 on: Sun, 29 January 2017, 05:19:07 »
This is more or less what I wanted to do.



basically an HHKB with split spacebar. Unfortunately I don't have all the key size to make it perfect, but I can settle with that for a prototype.

Offline Halverson

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #102 on: Sun, 29 January 2017, 16:44:15 »
This is more or less what I wanted to do.

Show Image


basically an HHKB with split spacebar. Unfortunately I don't have all the key size to make it perfect, but I can settle with that for a prototype.

Looking good!
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Offline dante

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 29 January 2017, 20:16:59 »
I'm not a big fan of the HHKB layout, however as long as it's fully programmable - for example I can implement dual space-fn layers with the space bars then I'm all good.

Offline Sarreq Teryx

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #104 on: Thu, 23 February 2017, 03:23:43 »
soooooo, where can the rest of us buy these??  Looking to try to build my own Teensy keyboard.

Offline Sarreq Teryx

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #105 on: Wed, 01 March 2017, 15:06:24 »
I guess the blaring non-response means we can't?

Offline hking0036

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #106 on: Thu, 02 March 2017, 07:14:31 »
I guess the blaring non-response means we can't?
It's going to be a little while yet, yes. You can try and contact kaihua like matt3o but it's probably better just to wait it out.
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Offline dante

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 10:22:48 »
Still interested in April!

Offline SNReloaded

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 25 April 2017, 09:38:42 »
I love all the work being done with the ML-based switches! 60% keyboards with this profile of switch would be pretty neat, since it would be a great travel option/take to class option!

Cheers, and keep up the good work : )

Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 25 April 2017, 16:23:51 »
I'm really interested to here more about these switches too - registered just to say so! Hope keycaps happen soon - When they do a group buy should be able to happen since you can already pick these switches up on Globalsources.

Is there any more info Matt3o?

Offline danwomansan

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #110 on: Tue, 25 April 2017, 18:38:53 »
I just want to pop in and see if there's more info on these switches and their keycaps yet
it's pronounced "danw omansen", not "dan woman san"

Offline RominRonin

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #111 on: Sun, 21 May 2017, 00:37:08 »
Bump.


I would very much like to build my own custom board out of these.

Offline dante

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #112 on: Sun, 21 May 2017, 10:42:42 »
Still interested in April!

Still interested in May!

Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #113 on: Sun, 21 May 2017, 10:44:37 »
I'm also still interested.

There was a post by Kailh on /r/mechanicalkeyboards about a week ago saying to contact them about switches, but still haven't heard anything about keycaps. The rep that was in that thread had rather rudimentary English skills so communication was difficult at best.

Offline SNReloaded

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #114 on: Sun, 21 May 2017, 11:26:14 »
I'm still interested. It would be awesome to build a slim Planck with these for travel

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Offline Matt3o

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #115 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 11:22:21 »
I've been very busy with the MT3 keycap profile, but I'm still interested in doing something with this switch.

We are trying to run another batch of WhiteFox (with or without massdrop), as soon as that is defined I can move on other projects.

Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #116 on: Wed, 24 May 2017, 17:53:47 »
The caps you posted earlier on were looking good, I'd love to see more soon.

Personally, I'm primarily interested in perhaps a group buy on switches and caps, I'm thinking of making my own PCB and case.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #117 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 11:35:05 »
The Tesoro Gram prototype at Computex 2017. It has been rumoured that this would be the Kailh switch ... Is it?
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Offline Vladimir

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #118 on: Fri, 09 June 2017, 05:49:26 »
Yes, but I don't know which kind.
That's because Kaihua made two of them, Choc (closer to ML) and Choc mini.
Each kind will have its variations (at least blue and red alike).

http://imgur.com/a/yrECe

Choc: 3mm travel | 50g | actuation at 1.5mm | total height 8mm | lifespan 70 mi
Choc mini: 2.4 mm travel | 50g | actuation at 1.2mm | total height 5.85mm | lifespan 25 mi

Also apeared at Computex: http://imgur.com/a/JqiAq
Photo 37 and 38, I think.


Announcement:
https://www.wstx.com/p-23617-1

Keyboard already using the switches
Dareu EK820
http://item.jd.com/4781628.html

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6elfwe/newscomputex_kaiihau_kailh_announced_choc_series/
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 June 2017, 07:24:28 by Vladimir »
 
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Offline HendyZone

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #119 on: Fri, 09 June 2017, 08:40:51 »
The Tesoro Gram prototype at Computex 2017. It has been rumoured that this would be the Kailh switch ... Is it?

Yeah, this one use the Kailh low profile switches for sure

Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #120 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 05:55:13 »
Man I want some of those ~6mm switches and caps so badly. I thought the switches weren't supposed to be ML cap compatible?

Offline Vladimir

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #121 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 08:02:55 »
I was thinking about having those as well, but then I see the lifespan drops from 70 million to 25. Ouch
It's better if we leave them to use only with notebooks, when it's absolutely necessary to have them as small as possible.

And no, even if they look alike, ML caps won't fit the Chocs. I think is about the position of the stem/slider. One is more centered than the other I GUESS. I even saw someone fiting the caps, but it looks like the upper wall of the cap hit the housing or something, so you can't press properly.

Quote from: HendyZone
Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

I didn't knew that. Can you show other clones here? Is always good to have options.
So far, I've only see Kaihua making them.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 June 2017, 08:08:16 by Vladimir »
 
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Offline dante

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #122 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 08:42:50 »
I was thinking about having those as well, but then I see the lifespan drops from 70 million to 25. Ouch

Considering Cherry/clones very rarely (in my experience) last beyond a year without something chattering I'll take a gamble for the feels.

I'm going to post a query in the main forum to figure out the best way to order that EK820.

Offline davkol

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #123 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 09:02:46 »
Quote from: HendyZone
Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

I didn't knew that. Can you show other clones here? Is always good to have options.
So far, I've only see Kaihua making them.
AFAIK, Gateron (in some gaming keyboard) and TTC (in a Lenovo "laptop") are confirmed.

Offline Vladimir

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #124 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 09:44:12 »
Quote from: HendyZone
Many clones start to make low profile switch again.

I didn't knew that. Can you show other clones here? Is always good to have options.
So far, I've only see Kaihua making them.
AFAIK, Gateron (in some gaming keyboard) and TTC (in a Lenovo "laptop") are confirmed.

TTC is unknow to me. I mean, I heard about the company but haven't see any review about their switches.
But when I've search for the Gateron ones, this is what I've found:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/tesoro-chiclet-mechanical-keyboard-gateron,33395.html

"Update, 1/11/17, 10:55am PT: We have received confirmation that these switches were developed by Tesoro in a partnership with Gateron, not Kailh, as we'd previously suspected.

The keyboard pictured here is a handmade prototype, but Tesoro expects the final, shipping version in Q2, by the time Computex rolls around this summer."

So, we were wrong. The KB in the video it's not Kailh, but Gateron.

EDIT: Potato pictures of the Gateron and TTC version:
TTC

Gateron

« Last Edit: Sat, 10 June 2017, 10:44:51 by Vladimir »
 
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Offline dante

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #125 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 14:58:27 »
A 60% comes forth: http://imgur.com/a/TbjtK

Offline SNReloaded

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #126 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 15:53:15 »
A 60% comes forth: http://imgur.com/a/TbjtK
I really like this. I would purchase this or some form of Planck variant

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Offline Vladimir

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #127 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 16:13:06 »
A 60% comes forth: http://imgur.com/a/TbjtK

I could totally buy this.
It would be better with blue, but whatever.
Any link where we can buy it yet?

The numbers were moved 1u to the right.
Also reducing the backspace size.
It disturbs me a little...

EDIT: I've just see where you've found this. I will leave the source, for reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6gf1ub/keyboard_spotting_rakk_gears_low_profile_60/
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 June 2017, 16:29:51 by Vladimir »
 
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Offline Malachor

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #128 on: Sat, 10 June 2017, 18:02:22 »

Offline Vladimir

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #129 on: Sun, 11 June 2017, 04:50:29 »
First time I've seen this.
The HKNS looks the same as the Greetech GT04.
The first report I've found was this, jan 2016:

Source*
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/41sifb/the_mysterious_greetech_gt04_laptop_switch/
BTW, the lenovo y900 talked about in this link, actually uses the TTC by the look of it.

On the Greetech main site, informs that it has:
Travel 2.5mm | 50mi lifespan | 7.8 mm total height
Black and blue variations.
On the Greetech Alibaba link, additionally inform the pre-travel of 1.5mm
Force weight still unknow. Only shows a red stem variation.

The HKNS alibaba link shows a few diferent things.
The lifespan is 20 million and pre-travel at 1.2mm.
Same height and total travel. Black and Blue variations.

On the banner, showed at source*, the Greetech informs 20 million lifespan. Black and Red variations. Same height.
Judging at how they mistake the name of the switch, we can't know for sure about what are the true values.
170593-0
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 June 2017, 05:17:01 by Vladimir »
 
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Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #130 on: Tue, 27 June 2017, 17:13:26 »
I messaged Rakk, no response about the board yet. I thought the video had been removed but it's further down their page:

https://www.facebook.com/rakk.ph/videos/1896373617253070/
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 June 2017, 17:16:24 by Russbo »

Offline doman18

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #131 on: Fri, 30 June 2017, 09:05:52 »
Wow! Maybe this will finally get me into the mechanical keyboard world!

Offline kurplop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #132 on: Mon, 17 July 2017, 12:35:13 »
I ordered some of the Kailh Low Profile switches direct from Kailh. I was shocked but delighted to find them delivered from Hong Kong to my California doorstep just four days after I paid for them through Paypal.

I ordered some of each type and my initial favorites are the reds. They all feel pretty good though.
173533-0

The Kailh switches footprint is noticeably bigger than the ML's but just slightly higher.
173535-1173537-2

From the underside you can see that it lacks the ML's jumper pins which make for easier trace runs (especially on 1 sided PCB's) but they seem to have provisions for both PCB only mounting and plate mounting. For the backlighting crowd, the clear case top is a plus.
173539-3

It will be a while before I will be able to use these but I'm looking forward to making a few keyboards with them.

Anyone wishing to work with these will have to figure out what to do about caps since none are available yet. I will probably mill out a few masters, make molds and cast them in urethane.


 

Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #133 on: Mon, 17 July 2017, 12:46:04 »
Do you have a mechanical drawing or 3D model of the caps? If so would you be able to share it here? I also have a CNC router which I could make some molds with.

Offline kurplop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #134 on: Mon, 17 July 2017, 13:33:11 »
Do you have a mechanical drawing or 3D model of the caps? If so would you be able to share it here? I also have a CNC router which I could make some molds with.

I haven't gotten that far yet. I was planning on starting with a modified Cherry ML cap. The two caps aren't compatible because the spacing of the stems is slightly different and they are not centered on the ML cap.

If I machine the masters, I'll get the precise dimensions of the Kailh stems but mostly freehand in the shape of the cap without exact drawings.

If anyone would like to sample them, PM me and I'll send you a few for my costs. I  have extras but not an endless supply I may have to end the offer at some point.

Eventually, I think Massdrop should offer them. They could get volume pricing and while the distributer was helpful, I don't think they are set up for small orders.

Offline mrbishop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #135 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 12:24:42 »
any likely hood of a KiCAD footprint? asking for a friend... also i need those browns! i'd love to know how much they are and what the MOQ is might have to design some PCB's to fit them :D :thumb:
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Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #136 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 12:33:17 »
any likely hood of a KiCAD footprint? asking for a friend... also i need those browns! i'd love to know how much they are and what the MOQ is might have to design some PCB's to fit them :D :thumb:

When I get a moment I'll try and crack one out. Could be a while, I'm extraordinarily busy at the moment.

It's interesting, the caps from my G84 don't fit that badly, I can see they don't bottom out but still actuate.

What I might do is design a chiclet cap since that suits my project, get them professionally 3D printed, make a mold from them and then make a board from ones I cast.

Big thanks to kurplop for sending the switches over, they're really cool :)

Offline kurplop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #137 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 12:39:43 »
any likely hood of a KiCAD footprint? asking for a friend... also i need those browns! i'd love to know how much they are and what the MOQ is might have to design some PCB's to fit them :D :thumb:
I bought mine from Bella at Kailua.  sales12@kailh.com   He is willing to sell small quantities for 0.21USD per switch plus shipping.

I bought extra and can sell some at my cost but I don't know if I can part with enough for a full keyboard. PM me if you think I can help.

I saw a pcb footprint diagram somewhere. I'll try to find it for you.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 July 2017, 18:12:50 by kurplop »

Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #138 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 13:11:51 »
If you saw an existing footprint, would be great if you could share it, saves me some time haha!

Offline mrbishop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #139 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 14:52:50 »
yes footprint! i hear there is one on easyeda but i dont use them for designing as ive put so much time into learning KiCAD (and am rather proficient in it now) also yes PM me or email me with any details on purchasing bishopkeyboards@gmail.com

thanks so much!

also did you say you tried cherry ML caps on these? do they fit ok?

does Kailh sell the stabilizers for these?
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Offline kurplop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 18:07:09 »
http://www.kailh.com/gb/Productdetail.asp?Productid=1584

This is their data sheet on the 1350 switches.

I found that the stems on the ML caps have just a slight bit different spacing.

Offline mrbishop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #141 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 18:31:16 »
http://www.kailh.com/gb/Productdetail.asp?Productid=1584

This is their data sheet on the 1350 switches.

I found that the stems on the ML caps have just a slight bit different spacing.

sweeeet time to try my hand at a from scratch footprint  :thumb:
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Offline mrbishop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #142 on: Tue, 25 July 2017, 20:14:26 »
https://i.imgur.com/1piX3xM.png getting there. need to verify the key cap size and positioning
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Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #143 on: Thu, 27 July 2017, 12:28:43 »
Fantastic mrbishop, looking good.

KiCad's pretty great isn't it? I'm using it for various circuit boards I make (non keyboard related). But soon I will be making keyboards with it rest assured!

The ML caps do fit, mine do anyway, they just rub a bit at the bottom of the actuation because they aren't centered right.

Offline mrbishop

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #144 on: Thu, 27 July 2017, 14:33:45 »
Fantastic mrbishop, looking good.

KiCad's pretty great isn't it? I'm using it for various circuit boards I make (non keyboard related). But soon I will be making keyboards with it rest assured!

The ML caps do fit, mine do anyway, they just rub a bit at the bottom of the actuation because they aren't centered right.

thanks a ton! I will get a test board fabricated with this footprint soon-ish (next time i order more PCB's) but i need someone to be willing to ship me 2-4 caps so i can properly test. i have a cherry ML board i can borrow caps from but lack the new switches to test properly. i do want to get some of these switches and caps long term but i'll need a sample before i decide to buy in quantity. not begging just thinking out loud ;)
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Offline ant1ksts

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #145 on: Sat, 29 July 2017, 21:39:21 »
teaser-ino

Show Image


Could somebody tell me where I can buy such keycaps? Thanks!

Offline hanya

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #146 on: Mon, 28 August 2017, 21:57:14 »
As described in the following entry of someone, Kailh has stoc of keycap for PG1350 switch, it seems.
http://hrhg.hatenablog.com/entry/2017/05/23/055419
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Offline Russbo

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #147 on: Tue, 29 August 2017, 13:32:16 »
As described in the following entry of someone, Kailh has stoc of keycap for PG1350 switch, it seems.
http://hrhg.hatenablog.com/entry/2017/05/23/055419

Fantastic find Hanya! Now we just need to get our hands on some. Would save me a great deal of messing about with making keycaps. Haven't even gotten around to finalizing my 3D model and sending it off to get printed yet. I'll hold fire now.

Offline Tiramisuu

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #148 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 01:01:44 »
Sub'ed in hopes of blank 1u keycaps.
A fascinating switch but with no keycaps it isn't much use.
Keyboard error F1 to continue.

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Offline Vladimir

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Re: New low profile Kailh switches (cherry ML inspired)
« Reply #149 on: Sat, 16 September 2017, 16:09:27 »
http://www.kailh.com/gb/Productdetail.asp?Productid=1584

This is their data sheet on the 1350 switches.

I found that the stems on the ML caps have just a slight bit different spacing.

404

This link may solve: http://www.kailh.com/uploads/soft/170802/1-1FP2103447.pdf
(download while you can)

Also, this is the list of Choc switches (1350):
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 September 2017, 16:19:29 by Vladimir »
 
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