Anybody make double shot Majestouch keys? If not, is anyone interested

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Hi all,

I'm sure I'm going to order a Majestouch soon, I just haven't decided on NKRO vs non-NKRO.

Question: Does anybody make double shot keys for these already? If not, is there any interest in getting them made? As I've stated in a previous thread, painted keys tend not to hold up over time for me :boink:

If had 10 people interested (I realize that this wouldn't be enough to get the keys down to a reasonable cost - setup is like ~$1,000, right?) I'd take a look into it and try to get an estimate on 104 keys (for a batch of 20, 50 and 100 sets probably).

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Ask Elitekeyboards if he can start stocking double shots.  There is a vendor forum here too.

I'll ask EliteKeyboards about that. Maybe if there's substantial interest he'd be willing to do an order, which would be logistically easier.

Why not give Signature Plastics a call too?  I'm sure there are 10 people that would buy them around here.

I want to make sure that there's interest because, TBH, it really makes sense to get more than one quote (why overspend, also, different places may have different options). Have to make sure I get all of the profile info and such correct, plus I'm probably going to ask about the Tenkeyless.

EDIT: Or are the Tenkeyless the same key profile, just fewer keys? If so, it'd make more sense with the economy of scale (setup cost) to just have the Tenkeyless owners buy 104 keys. It'd be cheaper than doing a separate mold/run.

[mrbill]

I've got three Filcos (one 104, two tenkeyless) and am definitely interested.

[vils]

Ask Elitekeyboards if he can start stocking double shots.  There is a vendor forum here too.

Why not give Signature Plastics a call too?  I'm sure there are 10 people that would buy them around here.

I just e-mailed Signature plastics, first I ordered some red Esc keys but I also asked for pricing on a new set of keys for my SMK-85 (Alps).

[hyperlinked]

I'd go in for a set of doubleshot keys for my 104 myself.

[elbowglue]

I would get a set of doubleshots too.

[NOMiS]

I'd buy a set if the font isn't ugly like most double shots.

[Rajagra]

What is a good font? I use Georgia a lot because it clearly distinguishes between characters like iIlL1, something I think should be mandatory for any font in modern use. But I dislike the way digits have descenders in Georgia.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

The interest seems to be here so I'll definitely start looking into the profile of the keys and such and see if I can get a quote from Signature Plastics.

Anyhow, the only acceptable keyboard font is Comic Sans.

[negidaku]

I'd be interested in picking up a set or two  -- especially if the keys were black on black.

[sixty]

I'd be interested in picking up a set or two  -- especially if the keys were black on black.

This is pretty much impossible for double shot keys and pretty much against the point of double shot keys.

[NOMiS]

What is a good font? I use Georgia a lot because it clearly distinguishes between characters like iIlL1, something I think should be mandatory for any font in modern use. But I dislike the way digits have descenders in Georgia.

I dislike most serif fonts. I really like Futura (used on Filcos), Helvetica (similar to Arial) and Frutiger. I think those would look nice on keyboards.

[Iceman]

I'd be interested in some double shot keys for my 87 key Majestouch as well.

[vils]

I got a reply from Signature Plastics today.
A full set double shots for my SMK-85 would be around $175.
Im tempted but I dont have the money right now.
For those wanting doubleshots for your Filcos Im sure a group-buy would be possible. Propably lowering the cost per set dramaticlly.

[vils]

You are right, $175 is not that expensive. SP are actually cheap, I bought forur Esc keys and a keycap puller from them today, $11,50 shipped.
BTW Ripster, you should have a look in the book Graphic design in Germany 1890-1945 by Jeremy Aynsley.

[-----------8<------------]

How does this sort of thing normally work.

I mean for example with the Filco all keycaps are not the same, I don't have mine to hand but the height of each key varies doesn't it.

Presumably with replacement keycaps you'd end up with one standard keycap across the whole board?

[muchadoaboutnothing]

How does this sort of thing normally work.

I mean for example with the Filco all keycaps are not the same, I don't have mine to hand but the height of each key varies doesn't it.

Presumably with replacement keycaps you'd end up with one standard keycap across the whole board?

Nah, signature plastics asks for a ton of profile information.

I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I think it's one profile per row (I'm waiting for my Majestouch to arrive).

Unrelated to your post...I'm seriously trying to figure out a font myself. I'd like to reach a consensus here on that eventually.

EDIT: I think I'm right judging by this post on Geekhack.

EDIT 2: Are the Filco keycap mounts recessed? I'm looking through the Mount styles (warning: PDF) right now.

[NOMiS]

Looking at the new double shots, like the Esc keys, they don't look very thick. I think that's one of the appeals of double shots.

[clickclack]

I'm gonna start up a Keys Database wiki.  The current key wiki looks dead.
....  Topre thick....

Oooo, I  hope at some point my keys make it into that wiki =D

Just a quick side note regarding Topre type keys (including HHKB) the keys at some point were made a different thickness and the tooling changed. I can't narrow down the date, but I assume it revolves around a model change. I can provide some specs if interested.

=)

[vils]

Regarding wall thickness in the keycaps from Signature Plastics.
I got this answer:

The walls in the DCS family are 0.030" thick, where the SA key wall thickness is 0.055".

[clickclack]

I'd be interested in picking up a set or two  -- especially if the keys were black on black.

This is pretty much impossible for double shot keys and pretty much against the point of double shot keys.

I understand what you are saying sixy but...
we know its likely not impossible, improbable perhaps only because they have to source or make a slightly different shade of black. Otherwise it's the same as any normal double shot in process. Lets not forget about HHKB's and Topre Realforce boards with the essentially black on black (although they are I believe dye sublimated not double shot).
I mention all this because I absolutely love the black on black look =) It really has most of the appeal of a blank board but with the quick help when you brain fart or when someone else has to use it =P
I think it's kinda classy too.

[Mental Hobbit]

They're not that thin.  Topre thick.  Certainly thicker than your typical ALPS doubleshot.   Not as thick as Cherry Corp keys that look like they were made for Hitler's bombshelter.

But only those old, thick Cherry keys give Cherry switches the nice full sound and that priceless ivory look and feel. That's the only kind of keys I'd pay money for.

[clickclack]

But only those old, thick Cherry keys give Cherry switches the nice full sound and that priceless ivory look and feel. That's the only kind of keys I'd pay money for.

frantically starts taking notes....

Let's just say Wiki editors CAN be bribed.  Wink, wink.  Nudge, nudge.

ha-HA! I knew it! ...MUUUAHAHAAA... excelent, most excelent....

[Mental Hobbit]

Of the Cherry caps, I actually like Filco best. I like them for their height.

And for giving you an opportunity to rant about the hollow sound of Cherry blues iirc.

[skcheng]

That's not me. I rant about the second rate tactile nature of the Cherry Blues, that silly vertical leaf switch.

You don't like Cherry Blues?  Really??   I love my double shot key'ed Filco blue Tenkeyless.   Don't you have like 10 of these boards??  I know you've swapped in metal keycaps, but have you tried the double shots?  It's NICE!!!  Filco keys SUCK.....I have four bags of them now.  They will never find their way back onto any of my Filco boards.

[skcheng]

I like 'em But they are not as good as some other switches. I think there are various disadvantages to the vertical leaf design, especially the pingy one, which have been discussed elsewhere in this site in length. And I really like the height of the Filco caps. Model M height. It gives the keyboard something majestic.

Do you hover  )

I actually prefer the shorter height cherry ds keys.  I guess I don't always type on the center of the keys so I find the lower profile more comfortable when I type for long periods of time.  

Just one of the reasons why I seem to have a tough time with the high profile Topre keys.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Lower your desk or get a keyboard tray

This is a seriously good point. I used to have the keyboard on my desk and I had the tray the entire time... I switched one day to see if there was any difference in typing comfort.

The tray is much, much more comfortable to type on for extended periods of time.

In other words, it's there for a reason

[bitflipper]

You don't like Cherry Blues?  Really??   I love my double shot key'ed Filco blue Tenkeyless.   Don't you have like 10 of these boards??  I know you've swapped in metal keycaps, but have you tried the double shots?  It's NICE!!!  Filco keys SUCK.....I have four bags of them now.  They will never find their way back onto any of my Filco boards.

Where did you get the double shot keys to put on your Filcos?

[TheSoulhunter]

I understand what you are saying sixy but...
we know its likely not impossible, improbable perhaps only because they have to source or make a slightly different shade of black. Otherwise it's the same as any normal double shot in process. Lets not forget about HHKB's and Topre Realforce boards with the essentially black on black (although they are I believe dye sublimated not double shot).
I mention all this because I absolutely love the black on black look =) It really has most of the appeal of a blank board but with the quick help when you brain fart or when someone else has to use it =P
I think it's kinda classy too.

Yeah, stealth double shots FTW!

[itlnstln]

Yeah, stealth double shots FTW!

Show Image

Ooooh.  That would be hot.

[TheSoulhunter]

Needs to be Helvetica.

Show Image

Picked a random one in Paint...
Probably Tahoma regular or something >.>

P.s.
I'd buy 2-3 sets!

[muchadoaboutnothing]

I'd be interested in doing stealth double shots, but ultimately the majority is going to rule. If only a couple of people want "stealth" (close colored) double shots, then it's not worth running.

If Signature Plastics is interested in doing both and can keep the cost per set down, doing both could be an option.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Boo Stealth.  Renderings always look better than Reality.

I assume that's a double shot as well (as otherwise it would be tough to consider it a valid comparison?)

"Stealth" is only good if the letter is visible from more than 2 inches away...

[microsoft windows]

You're wrong. IBM Model M's are similar to Helvetica, but not quite that font. Take a look at this write-up I made about it, which I attached right here to this post.

[kishy]

I was gonna say, actually, how I don't think it's Helvetica. The characters are too wide, Helvetica is a narrow font (at least it was the last time I saw it on a 68K Mac).

[.Logic]

I've been lurking for a couple of months now and have become increasingly interested in securing myself a set of double-shots whether they be white on black or dark grey on black (which would look ever so sleek IMO).  I'm in Australia but have plenty of friends in the states so shipping should not be a problem either.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

OP here: This is the interest level I have (note that I am only counting people who explicitly stated they wanted keys):

MrBill: 3 sets (?)
hyperlinked: 1 set
elbowglue: 1 set
NOMiS: 1 set "if the font isn't ugly"
Iceman: 1 set
.Logic: 1 set

If you want a set, please state so explicitly and specify how many sets.

If you want the stealth keys, let me know. Unless there's substantial interest for both sets I doubt they will both be made- and to be safe, black on white would probably be more desirable.

I would also like to get some sort of agreement on the font. So pull out your thinking caps and think of highly readable, aesthetic fonts. Otherwise, I will pick the font.

[bitflipper]

I'm interested in 2 sets, maybe 3 if the price is reasonable. Otherwise, I can harvest double shots from Cherry POS boards cheaply enough.

Font? Anything but the font on the Decks or Filcos.

[TheSoulhunter]

If you want a set, please state so explicitly and specify how many sets...

I'd get 2-3 (stealth) sets if the price is reasonable (well below 100USD)

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Font? Anything but the font on the Decks or Filcos.

Be careful when you say "anything"...

[.Logic]

I don't particularly want a serif font, and regarding 'stealth' keys, provided there is enough interest... Would the keys or font be darker?  I"m really not sure...

[mrbill]

Yes, depending on price I'd be interested in up to three sets, stealth colors preferred over white-lettering-on-black but I can't be too picky.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

I can't see the fonts clearly.  I use the dark theme.

Image was of Wingdings.

And both Topre and IBM are Helvetica.  Look at the R.  And I don't open Word documents.  Virus ridden things.

I looked at it a little while back. I'm too lazy to open it again, but there was a clear difference with the dollar sign symbol and several other keys.

[Rajagra]

IBM Model M's are similar to Helvetica, but not quite that font.

Looking at this font family, I can match everything except the @ (even the dollar with broken line.) So I'm pretty sure IBM used a Helvetica font, or a mixture of Helvetica fonts.

[.Logic]

And what's wrong with Futura?  I like the Filco Font!

I would be quite happy with Futura.

[Dezeer]

What kind of surface texture has these keys, will it start to shine after a while, I know that you might start to feel the edges of the letter. I might be interested, if there is some customization available and they could be sent abroad.

[phoenix]

How do you like MISO? It's already rounded so the double shot process won't distort it much. It may be too narrow, though.



http://www.omkrets.se/typografi/

[itlnstln]

I am interested in a set, especially in Futura.

[kishy]

I don't know what it is, but the Model M typeface is NOT Helvetica. Or maybe some of it is.

I could believe the keys with actual words on them (tab, shift, enter...more than one character) are Helvetica because of the ugly character spacing. Helvetica is an ugly typeface...

Single characters, I dunno. They're too wide in relation to their height, maybe it's an illusion but it really doesn't look like Helvetica. Much closer to even Arial with the proportional height/width thing, but it's possible it's some kind of distorted Helvetica.

[kishy]

How did you do on the quiz?

Typefaces come in many widths and spacings.

Ugh, once again I failed to see there even was a quiz.