Author Topic: CST L-Trac laser trackball  (Read 143429 times)

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Offline o2dazone

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #100 on: Wed, 27 May 2009, 08:36:43 »
Quote from: ripster;92858
Doesn't understand the joy of finding the right size metric bolt with the right size nut!


He will when he's older...if you catch my drift

Offline bigpook

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #101 on: Wed, 27 May 2009, 09:30:20 »
Quote from: chrismar;92873
I found the same ball bearing dimensions in stainless steel (from one of Microsoft's trackball devices) and replaced the plastic ones in my Kensington EM. I have not encountered any post modification issues with materials concerning weight bearing, possible scarring, resolution or ratios.


Please elaborate on that if you would. I take it you were able to swap out the plastic "ring" on the expert? And now you have a stainless steel ring?!

If you could, please post some pics.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #102 on: Wed, 27 May 2009, 10:35:19 »
Quote from: o2dazone;92898
He will when he's older...if you catch my drift

Especially if he likes the European women.


Offline CreamyNutButter

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #103 on: Mon, 20 July 2009, 23:56:05 »
Quote from: tad;82842
Anyone used one of these?

Show Image


http://www.clearlysuperiortech.com/highperformance.html

The specs indicate it's sturdy, but I'm interested in how well the laser sensor tracks compared to a Logitech or Kensington optical sensor. I can't stand laser mice (the tracking feels "mushy"), but I am looking for a smooth+precise trackball for gaming.


I hate all laser and optical mice and trackballs for some odd reason, and usually experience better precision with an analog mouse or trackball.
Trackballs: Kensington Orbit with Scroll Ring and Logitech Marble
Keyboards: Who cares?

Offline CreamyNutButter

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 21 July 2009, 01:13:29 »
Quote from: ripster;103543
So... what do you think of the Mouse-Trak?  That is one huge trackball.


It's pretty good, but I need to wait until the PS/2 to USB adapter comes in the mail so I can use it on my laptop.
Trackballs: Kensington Orbit with Scroll Ring and Logitech Marble
Keyboards: Who cares?

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #105 on: Fri, 12 March 2010, 05:38:10 »
Finally got my hands on one. Initial impressions are definitely good. I'll post up more thoughts as I use it more.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #106 on: Sat, 03 April 2010, 09:23:42 »
...and I've used it more.

My first impression was that it wasn't anything that my Kensington didn't offer. After using it for a while and going back to the Kensington I realized that I was completely wrong.

The steel rollers on the CST alone make it worth the extra over the Kensington. Despite regular cleaning, the Kensington just gunks itself up too easily, after a few months of use the dirt really gets itself inside the rollers and is practically impossible to remove. I'm sure if I disassembled it and cleaned it out it would go away, but it seems pretty stupid that I have to do that after a few months, especially given that I keep my stuff clean and don't use it with greasy hands or whatever.

As a consequence, the ball in the KEM feels like it's suspended in treacle. And if you roll it too fast, or try and make particularly fine movements, it doesn't roll properly and the ball jumps, a problem exasperated by the fact that the ball is not secured in place. In the CST, the ball just rolls smoothly, and after several weeks of use, I still haven't had to clean it yet. It also feels far more responsive, and the ability to change sensitivity is great.

In terms of ergonomics, the CST wins again. Obviously YMMV, and bigpook found that the CST caused him agony to use, but here's what I think - in the KEM, the ball sits up quite high which means that while the wrist rest is good for your... wrist, you have to use it with your fingers outstreched quite high. In the CST, the shape of it allows your hand to lie on it which gives better support. If you want to move your hand to reach the scroll wheel, or to get a different grip on the ball, you can just slide your hand up and down and you still get the same effect, whereas the KEM's wrist rest is only really comfortable if the base of your hand is resting at the bottom of the 'hump' on it.

The CST destroys the KEM in terms of build quality. It's made from tough ABS plastic and has the single thickest cord I've ever seen attached to a pointing device. The KEM feels cheap and plasticky by comparison. One thing I'll say is that the CST has a sort of "Unicomp finish" to it - it's very durable, but there's plenty of dimples and flashes across the case. The shiny black ball tends to show up dirt more than the speckled grey one of the KEM.

In the CST the ball is permanently fixed into place. One of the problems I had with the KEM was that it used to fall out if you were carrying it in a bag or whatever. Also, the KEM's wrist rest is attached by very flimsy contacts... I used to be quite paranoid when leaving in a bag lest it bended too much and snapped. The CST doesn't have this issue at all. Of course, in order to clean it, you have to dismantle it, but this is nowhere as difficult as dismantling the KEM - you remove three Philips screws and it just opens up.

In terms of features, the Kensington has the scrollwheel, which is pretty nifty, and the software supports various features. Of course, Kensington doesn't support the thing any more and you're stuck with drivers that only work under XP or Mac OS X up to 10.4. There are third party drivers that support some of the features, but that kinda defeats the point.

The CST has a scroll 'barrel', the ability to switch between 400, 800 and 1600 DPI, and three buttons by default. There are versions that support either two jacks to add a fourth or fifth button, or three jacks to allow you to duplicate the functionality of buttons 1-3, designed for people with various disabilities. In fact, the contact pads for these are included on the PCB irrespective of which version you buy, so if you're into modding, you can just buy the three button model and hack away. There is supposedly some software for the CST, but I'm sure it's just a basic button re-mapper... All the features are built into the hardware already.

In terms of the scroll wheel - both have excellent designs. The main distinction here is that the KEM has a ratchety scroll wheel, and the CST has a free rolling one, like in some of Logitech's higher end mice. For the internet, and reading documents, the free rolling one may be more desirable, but for playing games, the lack of clicking is a bit of a pain if you're switching between weapons or whatever. Some have complained that the KEM's scroll ring feels cheap and is noisy, but I think this is overexaggerated.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #107 on: Sat, 03 April 2010, 09:48:20 »
When I first got it, the KEM caused me ungodly amounts of pain if I tried to use it. Eventually I found that after sitting in a more ergonomic position that it was very comfortable to use. Again, it's a huge case of YMMV. The person I bought the CST from claimed that he found a cheap mouse that was more comfortable to use than it.

Offline bigpook

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #108 on: Sat, 03 April 2010, 10:41:28 »
My elbow is better now : ) and they ain't weird either, lol.

I kind of wish I still had the CST around so I could give it another try. Am using the slimblade now and that is working out very well. I never had a problem with the expert gunking up. On occasion I would pop the ball and remove the fuzz around the ruby points. I do the same now on the slimblade but its no big deal. I think a clean environment and clean hands  have more to do with how quick the mouse gunks up.
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Offline Rajagra

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #109 on: Sun, 04 April 2010, 02:24:38 »
Well I've pretty much decided to buy a L-Trac when I can spare the money, but I find it odd that you have to undo screws to clean the insides. With my existing trackballs where the ball rests on 'jewels' rather than rollers, I get a build up around those bearings that looks like a ring of felt which dampens the movement. This can happen in under a week, and for the life of me I can't work out what is causing it. I don't think I'm shedding tiny hairs from my fingertips. It would be a shame to have to unscrew the case of the CST weekly just to clean it.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #110 on: Sun, 04 April 2010, 04:30:09 »
But as I pointed out above, I've been using this thing for almost a month and I still haven't needed to clean it yet. Compare with the Logitech or KEM which required cleaning every few days. The latter two are easy to clean because they need to be cleaned regularly...

Offline skcheng

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #111 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 08:47:52 »
Where is everyone ordering these from??   MUST have one!!!!

skc

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #112 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 12:23:34 »
Fentek if you're in the US. There's some others, and a few European ones. Check the CST site for more details.

http://www.fentek-ind.com/laser-trackball.htm#mltracub
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 April 2010, 12:30:34 by ch_123 »

Offline didjamatic

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #113 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 12:42:35 »
Ripster, you should sell those 2 button add-on kits, either as a kit or assembled with Cherry switches.  I'd buy one.  Or tell fentek or someone else to do it.

Without it I can't use that trackball because I need me 5 buttons (or at least 4 + scroll).   Do you know if you can configure it to "freewheel"?  My G9X can be spun so it freewheels and scrolls down very long pages with one spin.  Or you can push a button on the bottom of the mouse to make the wheel click if you prefer that.
IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #114 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 13:26:37 »
The CST is a freewheel scroller. Im sure you could modify the thing to be clicky if you wanted... but there's no switching function.

Offline skcheng

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #115 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 14:17:49 »
Quote from: ch_123;170061
Fentek if you're in the US. There's some others, and a few European ones. Check the CST site for more details.

http://www.fentek-ind.com/laser-trackball.htm#mltracub



Ouch.  $135!!   The most I've ever paid for a mouse was $40 for my Logitech G9.  But Rip recommends this one over the DT225 so I guess I need to listen ;-)

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #116 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 14:26:24 »
Like just about all things, if you want the good stuff, you are going to have to pay.


Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #117 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 14:34:24 »
I used the DT225 for awhile, and I kinda liked it, but it hurt my wrist, so I didn't use it much longer.  I think I'll stick with mice for awhile.  I think I might try the KEM if I can find it at a store.


Offline didjamatic

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« Reply #118 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 15:13:02 »
I LOVE the DT225 and looked a long time before finding one.  My intention was to install either a mighty mouse scroll ball or an IBM scrollpoint stick to give it scrolling capabilities and create the be-all-end-all-ultimate-trackball-of-all-time but my goals and free time diminished so I'm probably going to sell/trade it.
IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline itlnstln

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #119 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 15:28:10 »
You have a missing link?



Offline itlnstln

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #120 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 15:39:38 »
Hmm... interesting.


Offline ricercar

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #121 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 11:33:56 »
I didn't like the Evoluent lefty, and I was willing to kill small children for a left hand mouse when I tried it.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #122 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 12:48:03 »
The Evoluent made me feel out of control. I have a $7 gun-shaped gamer "mouse" that gives me more lefty control than the $70 Evoluent. For that price I wanted something that didn't have an upsetting size and shape. I couldn't place the cursor within a word between the exact letters I wanted, no matter how much time I put into it (weeks). It was frustrating and therefore I have an irrational dislike of the device.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #123 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 12:54:29 »
I may be gay, but I have large hands. My 3M penis mouse was a one-night-stand because it's  too small. I'd need the one with an EXTRA-LARGE shaft!

Small penis mouse for sale. Used but wiped down afterwards. Cheap.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline iMav

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #124 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 01:33:50 »
I've been so happy with my slimblade that I totally forgot I wanted to order one of these.

So, just pulled the trigger on one from ergoguys (CST2545-5W, of course).  Also have a 5-ball on the way (black and orange should match geekhack's dark theme nicely).  :)

As a content KSB owner, I look forward to comparing the two.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #125 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 05:38:00 »
Ergoguys will ship to Europe, not sure how expensive it would be though. I was lucky enough to get mine from a Geekhack member in Northern Ireland who got one from eBay.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #126 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 07:33:06 »
In an email I sent them, they said that they did it.

Offline iMav

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #127 on: Sat, 17 April 2010, 10:29:29 »
Quote from: Julle;172929
L-trac is pretty expensive in Europe (95 Ł + VAT + shipping is the cheapest I've found, total is around 140 €).  Most of the American retailers who stock this won't even consider shipping here.

Not totally outrageous.  (assuming it is as nice as others have said) Is that the CST2545-5W?

Offline iMav

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #128 on: Wed, 21 April 2010, 05:43:10 »
According to UPS, I should have mine on Friday.  (black with extra button jacks)

Should receive my 5-ball by then as well.  :)

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #129 on: Wed, 21 April 2010, 05:48:27 »
Quote from: Julle;173820
I have now ordered this, but from Ergoguys (sorry mskeyboard). I took the all black version, no switch jacks. Now the wait... I don't have a clue when we can have plane cargo here next. Hopefully the air will clear up, no new eruptions occur and the aviation authorities will re-open the airspace.

I'm expecting a 2-4-week wait.


Technically the all have five switch jacks, it's just that the base model doesn't have any jacks soldered for them. Think of it as an additional step of the modding job :P

Offline iMav

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #130 on: Sun, 25 April 2010, 00:02:25 »
Received mine on Friday (along with my 5-ball).  I'm so comfortable with my slimblade that I'm going to have to spend significant time with the new trackball before I can comment...right now it is just irritating (due to my conditioning with the slimblade).I keep wanting to rotate the ball to scroll, and I am in the habit of using the ball with the tips on my fingers (which makes the scroll wheel and middle click out of reach).

I think I'll eventually really like it...just need to go hide the slimblade for a month.  :)

Offline Rajagra

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #131 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 18:53:43 »
Yay! Finally got one!



Well, not exactly. It's a MicroSpeed PC-Trac Deluxe +, PD-800S. Saw it selling at a price too low to ignore.

It's opto-mechanical and has three buttons. Without loading the software (which the manual says conflicts with Logitech MouseWare) the middle button acts as a drag-lock (locks left button down.) If you load the software, it also switches the trackball into scrolling mode. It has a 9-pin serial connector and adapter cable for PS/2 use. I have it working via an active PS/2 to USB convertor that I had lying around.

Sometimes it stops moving the cursor along one axis, this is probably my fault - I wiped the ball with ArmorAll before using it, obviously that has made it too slippery. I should have broken it in first. Being an old item and NIB, the bearings have been supporting the weight of the ball in one position for years, that might have caused a tiny flat spot.

It is louder than my Logitech Marble Mouse, but that's because it has moving parts! Audible would be a better description than louder.

Sadly the DPI is too low for my dual 1920*1200 screens. If I set the Windows mouse speed at the fastest setting that still allows smooth single-pixel movement, then rolling the ball as far as you can without moving your finger moves the mouse pointer about 400 pixels. Despite this it's nice to use at times when you don't have to move far.

You'll note that in the above picture I've angled it with the left hand side raised. This gives a more natural hand position, as used by my old Logitech Trackman Marble FX. I find it much more comfortable this way. This thing would really benefit from adjustable feet or some kind of platform to allow positioning like this. As mentioned before, lifting the front can make it more comfortable, so a simple prop as I've used above won't allow the full adjustment needed.

Offline Rajagra

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #132 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 19:40:09 »
I think it is 400dpi. I managed to increase the sensitivity some more while keeping it smooth - it must be bedding in. It now moves 1000 pixels in one swipe which I measure at 6cm which works out at 423dpi. It is actually quite usable like this. I never did manage to configure that old Marble FX to be usable with these screens. The PC-Trac can be flicked very fast without stalling. Much faster than the Marble FX.

These big left/right buttons are great! And so appropriate for a trackball where your hand is moving around.

Offline ricercar

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #133 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 20:02:18 »
Quote from: ripster;176309
The L-trac can double that to 1600dpi.

**** specs. My fatal1ty mouse goes to 11^h^h 2400 dpi, with a color-changing LED for dpi.

How can you pass up giving a royalty to Wendell? Look at that glare:

I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline Rajagra

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #134 on: Mon, 26 April 2010, 20:29:51 »
Quote from: ricercar;176346
How can you pass up giving a royalty to Wendell? Look at that glare:

Show Image


"Dude, look out, it's evil you!"

Offline Arc'xer

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #135 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 13:32:12 »
Quote from: ricercar;176346
**** specs. My fatal1ty mouse goes to 11^h^h 2400 dpi, with a color-changing LED for dpi.


It's specs aren't actually all that great. The mouse is pretty much based off the Wingman but it wasn't till the G9, G9X; that the specs for the similar shape were good enough(engine).

CF 1010

CF 2020

Offline Rajagra

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #136 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 14:44:00 »
The D-Con is only lethal to USB mice!


Offline itlnstln

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #137 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 14:46:25 »
Quote from: Rajagra;176941
The D-Con is only lethal to USB mice!


Not unless it's a "serial killer."


*rimshot*


Offline Rajagra

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #138 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 15:28:16 »
HAHAHAHAHA ... play that music and watch ripster's lego animation!!!! :rofl:

Ackbar has the beat down perfectly. Those Calamaris sure have rhythm.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 April 2010, 15:31:07 by Rajagra »

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #139 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 15:31:15 »
That's epic.


Offline Rajagra

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #140 on: Wed, 28 April 2010, 21:40:36 »
That's as good as I could make it without wasting too much time. (How much is too much?, you may ask.)
YT uploader is still as buggy as ever I see.

We can split the advertising revenue rip. Viewers will never notice the subtle product placement.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 April 2010, 21:43:13 by Rajagra »

Offline duhokay

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #141 on: Thu, 29 April 2010, 01:22:19 »
Just put an order in for one, hope to clear some room on the desktop.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #142 on: Thu, 29 April 2010, 09:26:43 »
Quote from: Julle;177189
Great, this problem is back again. Worked perfectly in the morning. I come back home this afternoon and the mouse won't work without unplugging and replugging. What's the problem here?


I also have this problem with my desktop. Not sure if it affects my laptop too... havent checked.

Offline duhokay

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #143 on: Mon, 03 May 2010, 19:16:34 »
Just received mine today, really impressed with it. First trackball I have ever owned. Really nice when navigating a lot of space.

Offline SigonLegacy

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #144 on: Tue, 04 May 2010, 16:40:56 »
Quote from: Julle;176845
Oh great, I have my first problem with it already. I'm running Windows 7 and it won't recognize the mouse after boot unless I unplug and replug. BIOS recognizes that there is a mouse connected. Windows Device manager show this device under mice and USB devices.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be?

EDIT: Never mind. It must have been some temporary glitch. What, glitches, in MY Windows?

I'm having the exact same problem. Just got home from work, got into Windows and... no mouse. I'm really happy with this trackball, but this'll be around the fourth time it's just suddenly not recognized. When I unplug it, Windows makes the disconnect sound, so it knows it was there.

Windows 7 x64, here.
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 May 2010, 16:42:47 by SigonLegacy »

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #145 on: Tue, 04 May 2010, 17:28:53 »
I might send an email to CST when I get the chance. If it's affecting three of us, it's likely to be affecting others.

Offline washuai

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CST L-Trac laser trackball
« Reply #146 on: Tue, 04 May 2010, 21:28:58 »
CST L-Trac is how I first came across geekhack.  I might as well post here first, now that I've actually registered and temporarily halted lurking.

This is still an object I aspire to own, which maybe says more about the slow evolution of trackballs and my preference for them.  Although, I think the design is simple enough that it has a classic/timeless enough look to not date itself.

I like that the L-Trac is laser, 1600dpi, industrial, includes three buttons, scroll wheel and potential for two more buttons.  I like that it comes in black and the trackball can be customized.

I'm worried my hands are too small (6 1/2" mid wrist to middle finger tip).  Can anyone explain in more detail the challenge of small hands with the L-trac? Would I end up with less precision, more fatigue, constant hand repositioning in comparison to my logitech wireless optical trackman?

The Logitech wireless optical trackman is my favorite feel ergonomically, of the trackballs I've tried and I use it at work.  Between the need for custom wrist rests/slants & small hands comments, I'm concerned I'd find this uncomfortable.  

Also, I'm currently lacking the time/skills to deal with adding the two extra buttons, which are important to me.  Ripster's extra button mods definitely rock.
⌨(home)Realforce 87U ⌨(backup) Filco Majestouch 104 Brown ⌨(backup)Cherry G80-8200LPDUS ⌨(work)Leopold FC200RT/AB
☛CST L-Trac-X ☛Logitech Wireless Optical Trackman ☛ Razer 3500 dpi ☛MS Explorer DeathAdder

Lay-a-bouts:  ⌨Full 109 Key Virtually Indestructable  Keyboard ⌨Compaq Radio Quack GYUR84SK
Wishlist: ⌨KBDmania Pure ⌨Déck 82 ice/frost/toxic/royal ⌨Ricercar spos G86-62410EUAGSA ☠ ✞⌨miniGuru(s) ☠
 ✐Intuos or Cintiq

Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #147 on: Tue, 04 May 2010, 22:40:37 »
I don't have a L-Trac (yet) but I recently bought a MicroSpeed PC Trac Deluxe+, which is the grandaddy of the L-Trac. One thing that impressed me on opening it up is the way the two large buttons hinge a long way forwards from the parts that are normally visible. This means you can hit those big buttons anywhere and they operate cleanly. So I think the design is suitable for hands of any size.

Offline duhokay

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« Reply #148 on: Tue, 04 May 2010, 22:57:33 »
No connection problems in win7 x64 as of yet...

Offline yamaha200

  • Posts: 12
Connection problems
« Reply #149 on: Fri, 07 May 2010, 15:40:13 »
I owned a CST2545-5W for almost a year now and I have never had the connection problem that is mentioned in this thread. I believe it could partly be because of BIOS issues. If heard of Vista having problems with BIOS/Drivers for ALL types of pointing devices. I've also heard about Mac users having issues in newer OS updates not being able to connect some devices from a cold start. Sometimes its the manufacture and others times its not. Some Manufactures even help solve the problem by reworking Firmware.

   I believe a quick fix from this problem lays in the BIOS. Power setting or boot up device options maybe able to help. Also updating BIOS like Julle did may help.

   Has anyone talked to the manufacture? I bet they have an updated firmware that could help. Clearly Superior Tech is very good about customer service. Julle maybe you should email them about your case.  If anyone did email the manufacture, what did they say?