Author Topic: Leopold FC660C  (Read 312583 times)

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Offline Acetrak

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Leopold FC660C
« on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:53:16 »
Got my new Leo today, will do a review comparing it with the HHKB Type-S. Will finish write up laterz. Feel free tol lask questions now and I can include it in my write up.

So I got my new Leo today, the Leopold FC660C, a 66key Electrostatic Capacitive Mini Keyboard. If you are not familiar, Leopold recently came out with their 660 line, the 660R and the 660C. The 660R uses Cherry MX switches and the 660C uses topre switches. What I got today is the topre version and I will compare this with my HHKB Type-S. I am excited to do this review because this is the first topre keyboard under the Leopold line, and also because of this never before seen 66key layout.


I was lucky enough to get help from a friend's friend from Korean to obtain this keyboard. The Leopold FC660C comes with the keyboard, gold plated USB cable, extra 1.5 ctrl key and 1.25 capslock keycaps to swap out. In addition I believe they were doing some promotions so I got some free lavender wasd, arrow keys, and a red esc. This whole package cost me $200 including shipping (split between some other dudes getting stuff from Korea). I believe the retail price is $179, there was a promotion that bumped the price down to around $167 or so retail. My guess for when this sells outside of Korea it will probably be around the $200 ballpark.


One of the most unique features about this keyboard is the 66key layout. It's similar to a 60% layout like the poker but this layout had dedicated arrow keys (awesome) and a dedicated del key (awesome) and insert key (meh). Red LED's are on the capslock and insert key. The dedicated insert key is probably there because this was intended for programmers. The 660 also has a fn layer so you can access keys outside from the 66 in the normal. The fn key is located on the right side of the RCtrl. I won't go over all of them but I do want to mention that fn+Q swaps out your esc for the ~ key and lights up the insert LED. There are also 4 dip switch settings that you can configure your LCtrl/CapsLock, Win/LAlt, win/fn, and win/off.


On the back there are standoff feet available if you're like me and prefer to type on an higher incline. Unlike the HHKB, the Leo feet are rubberized for better grip on the desk. This makes the board feel more solid overall since the HHKB's weight can be too light for some people. Also unlike the HHKB, the Leo only has 1 height option and it's somewhat steep for normal standards. The incline feels roughly the same as the HHKB.




Now as far as feel goes, there are surprisingly some noticeable differences, for me at least. Both the Leo and type s are 45g uniform, however the topre on the Leo feels more crisp and pronounced. This may be due to the fact that I just got it today and so everything is nice and fresh. I also noticed that the Leo feels more forgiving when you bottom out. Bottom out with the Leo gives a softer feedback, almost as if you're supposed to bottom out. On the HHKB bottom out feels a tad harsher. It still feels nicer than bottom out on Cherry MX switches, but for me the Leopold gave the softest feedback. In addition, the throws on the type s also feels shorter than the 660C. I think I prefer the longer throw feel better, but I'm not sure if this will wear off over time or not.

With regards to layout I really love that the 66 layout has dedicated arrow keys. Although I've gotten used to the HHKB arrow keys, the dedicated arrow cluster is definitely a great feature. The delete key is good but I pretty much never use the insert key. It'd be great if they could be remapped within the keyboard itself. One downside from my personal preference is that the \ and backspace key cannot bot swapped within the keyboard. After using the HHKB the backspace on \ for ansi boards just feels right. Another thing that I'm not a huge fan of is the fn key being on the bottom row. But then again, these are things that probably can be adjusted.

Size differences are minimal

Overall I am pretty impressed by this keyboard especially at its price. However I think I still prefer the HHKB due to my preference in layout. The fn key on the Leo makes it so that I will have to move my right hand a lot when I want to access fn keys such as home/end/pg up/pg down. However this is the cheapest topre board to date and it does not lack in quality whatsoever. My only reasons in picking HHKB is personal preference and not because I believe this is an inferior product, especially at this price. If I like this layout better you will probably see me putting my type s up for sale hah. I would recommend this board to topre-virgins as well as topre-enthusiasts. For the topre-virgins this offers a cheaper way of obtaining a topre board. And for the veterans, this will be a great keyboard to get if you are not a fan of the fn layer on the HHKB. If you ever have the chance to try this board, please do consider picking it up. This board has great quality, unique layout/size, and is priced at a good place. And Dedicated arrow keys, I can't stress this enough.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask in thread. It's past my bed time so I'll answer tomorrow. Peace out.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 April 2013, 14:24:44 by Acetrak »

Offline Turbo Slaab

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Re: Leopold FC 660C
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:57:35 »
Keeping an eye on this!
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Offline calavera

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Re: Leopold FC 660C
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:59:13 »
Damn, mine's still in the mail. :(

Offline Halverson

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Leopold FC 660C
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:59:23 »
Make sure to describe the feel difference between the two.
*captain obvious says*

Offline daerid

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Re: Leopold FC 660C
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:33:42 »
Where are you guys getting these? Are you using a proxy? Do tell for us laypersons!

Offline calavera

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Re: Leopold FC 660C
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:38:50 »
Boost did a mini run the day I posted the thread. He's doing in IC for a bigger group buy, so if you want one you should look into that.

Offline boost

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Re: Re: Leopold FC 660C
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:57:30 »
Where are you guys getting these? Are you using a proxy? Do tell for us laypersons!

I.tired to get you one but the order was already placed :(
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Offline Acetrak

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 01:36:43 »
OP updated, sleep time zzz

Offline 420

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 01:41:43 »
omg it is so cool... but can it disable the windows key??

Offline Sai

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 02:30:30 »
Yes. i am getting one next month. This will be my first Topre board as well. :)

Thanks for the review also.
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Offline Rendom

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 05:17:12 »
meh, the layout. : /
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Offline Acetrak

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Leopold FC660C
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 05:40:35 »
Yes winkey can be disabled through dip switch settings

EDIT: Spelling
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 April 2013, 08:16:12 by Acetrak »

Offline MJ45

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 08:05:55 »
Nice alternative choice for Topre 60% buyers. I waited quite a while to purchase a HHKB Pro and only a month later the FC660C comes out, oh well.

Offline boost

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 08:26:23 »
very nice review!
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Offline jalaj

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 08:56:49 »
Great review, so far the aspects of the default FN key location and uncertainty about a full keycap set replacement compatibility/availability are changing my original impulse 'gotta have' mentality to a lukewarm 'meh' response. I can wait for more reviews and feedback before jumping the gun now.
With the physical arrow keys on the FC660C, I think the FN key would see less frequently use than on the HHKB P2.
Though it could be cumbersome to hit ALT + F4.
Perhaps a specific dip switch combination allow you to swap the Win key and FN key? Or at least rearrange, so that the FN key is on the left side while retaining the Win key somewhere.

Offline Turbo Slaab

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 09:12:12 »
Is that gold or silver legends? Are the keys actually black or grey?
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Offline Acetrak

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 09:13:48 »
There's is a dip switch setting that lets you swap the winkey with fn, so that may be a solution for interested buyers. For alt+f4 or any other hotkey with the f-row becomes a 3 key combo which may be slightly annoying. I started using ctrl+w to close out of my web browsers.

Gold legends, black keys. Oops sorry about the bad lighting lol.

Offline Turbo Slaab

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 09:23:08 »
It's all good. Just making sure my monitor was in check. Lol.

Idk if I would like the gold legends. I wonder if Leopold will offer keycap replacements.
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Offline babyhands

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 15:58:50 »
does it come with ABS or PBT keycaps?

Offline Halverson

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 16:01:11 »
does it come with ABS or PBT keycaps?

PBT

Offline rknize

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 16:05:44 »
They seem to be pad-printed PBT.

My dream HHKB would actually be a Topre Poker.  This comes really close and in some ways is better than the Poker.  I don't use the right modifiers much, so I lock them and Esc on Poker.  However, I do miss having right-shift in some cases and the Esc/tilde bug is a nuisance.  The 660C addresses both of those and throws in a Del key at the expense of a bit more length.
Russ

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 26 April 2013, 17:34:32 »
I got one of these today from the esteemed Mr. Boost.  I'm liking it a lot so far.  It doesn't have that awesome HHKB sound, but it feels really nice.  I have remapped Insert/Del to PgUp/PgDown for now.  Might end up with Home/End instead.

Offline MJ45

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 27 April 2013, 17:58:11 »
I got one of these today from the esteemed Mr. Boost.  I'm liking it a lot so far.  It doesn't have that awesome HHKB sound, but it feels really nice.  I have remapped Insert/Del to PgUp/PgDown for now.  Might end up with Home/End instead.
Hope you post a review being a Realforce & HHKB owner. Your thoughts would be most welcome for would be Topre buyers.

Offline daerid

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 29 April 2013, 23:56:19 »
Just got mine tonight. I'm going to use it for work for the next 3 days and post my thoughts here.

Offline kelske

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 02 May 2013, 05:39:33 »
Just got mine tonight. I'm going to use it for work for the next 3 days and post my thoughts here.

Sooooo..... :rolleyes: Any impressions you'd like to share yet?
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Offline daerid

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Leopold FC660C
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 03 May 2013, 16:28:48 »
Well, yes. I'm on a plane at the moment and hungover, so I'll post a more thorough write up after I land. But quick version: this board rules. It's 60% (ish), arrow keys, standard backspace, and it's also currently the cheapest Topre board on the market I believe. Total winner.

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 16:21:01 »
Thank you for this! Now to gather some money... :))

Offline Guillairmo

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 16:48:29 »
Nice min-maxing, I see you had the LoL match loading in the background on your computer screen. :P

Offline Elrick

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 19:05:41 »
For those that already have the 660C keyboard, can you try and swap the Realforce Topre Keycaps with it to see if they are truly compatible?

Just curious to know.  If they are, then fun times ahead swapping them out for some dye-subbed Colour Caps  ;) .
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 May 2013, 19:07:27 by Elrick »

Offline Michael

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 19:10:56 »
For those that already have the 660C keyboard, can you try and swap the Realforce Topre Keycaps with it to see if they are truly compatible?

Just curious to know.  If they are, then fun times ahead swapping them out for some dye-subbed Colour Caps  ;) .




http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42300.msg854610#msg854610

Offline calavera

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 20:08:04 »
I just noticed my 660c has a capacitance? equation. kewl.



Curious why they did this. Anyone know?

Offline Acetrak

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Leopold FC660C
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 04 May 2013, 20:48:05 »
Topre is a capacitive switch :)

Offline daerid

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 00:24:56 »
Okay so I know I said I'd post a more detailed review, but I don't think I can. This board is just awesome. As far as I'm concerned, it's the perfect mini layout. Just having arrow keys alone makes it a winner, but the fact that FN+arrows gives you pgup/pgdn/home/end is the nail in the HHKB coffin in my opinion. The only thing that would make this board better is 55g switches. But even so, this particular board feels stiffer than my old 45g 87U did.

For anybody who uses Windows, and has ever wanted to get a HHKB but was put off by the layout, get this board. It's almost 1/3 cheaper than the HHKB, and has a completely usable layout for the Windows user. I was initially worried about the choice of ins/del for the two off-keys, but having the arrows double as the rest of the six-pack makes up for it. All those keys are easily accessible in a surprisingly intuitive layout.

It's also the cheapest Topre board on the market, and extremely well made. Yes, you don't get dye subbed PBT's, but you still get PBT's (albeit laser-etched). Not sure how the finish is going to hold up, but all the 1x keys from a RF set will fit (plus a few others like Tab, Backspace, \, Enter, and the Shifts). Unfortunately I believe the space bar is still ABS, as it's straight as an arrow.

Cliffs: If you love Topres, or are wanting to try them, buy this board. Period.

Offline kelske

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 01:54:07 »
Thanks for the extra info - can't wait to give my one from Boost's GB a hoon!
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Offline Elrick

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 04:56:11 »
Just having arrow keys alone makes it a winner, but the fact that FN+arrows gives you pgup/pgdn/home/end is the nail in the HHKB coffin in my opinion.

For the owners of any HHKB's out there, them's fightin' words  ::) .

Although I love the way the 660C looks including it's key-layout but the hard core lover's of the HHKB, will be heading out to your place with Pitchforks and Torches  ^-^ .  You do know how easy it is the rile certain fanatics on here at GH?
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 May 2013, 04:58:27 by Elrick »

Offline ktownhero

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 09:50:14 »
For anybody who uses Windows, and has ever wanted to get a HHKB but was put off by the layout, get this board. It's almost 1/3 cheaper than the HHKB, and has a completely usable layout for the Windows user. I was initially worried about the choice of ins/del for the two off-keys, but having the arrows double as the rest of the six-pack makes up for it. All those keys are easily accessible in a surprisingly intuitive layout.

Wait, the arrows also double as pgup/pgdn/home/end?  I assume up/down being home/end, and left/right being the page keys?  If so, that's ****ing awesome.  That's way more intuitive than having them baked into the letter keys. 

Offline jksteger

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 10:17:53 »
I've noticed one other difference between the fc600c and the HHKB. The size of the key caps. I love the larger caps that the HHKB has. Has anyone else noticed this?  To anyone that has both can you tell any difference in size of the caps?

Offline Acetrak

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Leopold FC660C
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 10:36:02 »
The bottom row of the 660 uses 1.25x mods, hhkb uses 1x and 1.5x mods. The Leo is the first topre board that uses 1.25x mods so keep that in mind if you plan to get replacement caps. (RF and HHKB replacement keycaps won't fit)

Offline naokira

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 10:44:31 »
I like the layout! Any word when will the 660r gets released?
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Offline daerid

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Leopold FC660C
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 13:23:33 »

Wait, the arrows also double as pgup/pgdn/home/end?  I assume up/down being home/end, and left/right being the page keys?  If so, that's ****ing awesome.  That's way more intuitive than having them baked into the letter keys.

The opposite actually: fn+left/right is home/end, and fn+up/dn is pgup/pgdn

Makes more sense if you think about cursor movements.

Offline daerid

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Leopold FC660C
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 13:24:26 »
I didn't notice any difference in size between HHKB and 660C caps

Offline kelske

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 15:38:38 »
Hey daerid, now that you've been using this for about a week.. How would you compare it to your 55g RF's?
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Offline daerid

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 05 May 2013, 16:30:59 »
Different, but not as much as you'd think. The most striking is that it's 45g, obviously, but it feels more solid than the HHKB did. It definitely has a Realforce level of solidity (doesn't move around on the desk when you pound on it). Wins hands down in the portability department though. Threw it in my laptop bag without breaking a sweat.

Really though, it's hard to compare them because they're such different form factors. Typing feel on the 66C is somewhat between the 45g and 55g realforce (of course, my AE 55g feels noticeably stiffer than my white 55g, so YYMV). Hard to beat the 660C's price though :-o

Offline ktownhero

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 06 May 2013, 06:15:49 »

Wait, the arrows also double as pgup/pgdn/home/end?  I assume up/down being home/end, and left/right being the page keys?  If so, that's ****ing awesome.  That's way more intuitive than having them baked into the letter keys.

The opposite actually: fn+left/right is home/end, and fn+up/dn is pgup/pgdn

Makes more sense if you think about cursor movements.

Right, that's actually what I meant to write.  :P 

That's great!

Offline rknize

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 06 May 2013, 10:45:08 »
I had no idea about the Fn+Arrow thing.  That is awesome because I struggle with those a bit.
Russ

Offline VesperSAINT

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 15:42:00 »
What is this video???


Offline kelske

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 16:30:24 »
What is this video???

Testing the FC660C's squeezeability. Obviously..  :p
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Offline AKIMbO

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 17:18:50 »
That's an odd sound.
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Offline MJ45

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 17:24:12 »
What is this video???

Testing the FC660C's squeezeability. Obviously..  :p
Please Don't Squeeze the Leo's! they can get creaky about that!

Offline daerid

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Re: Leopold FC660C
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 18:18:12 »
Mine doesn't do anything like that.